Griffith University Aviation ?

[Flyboat North]

Wondering how this program is traveling nowadays , how many students in each year of the course etc.

Have heard that many of the students take substantially longer than the three years to complete their flying training. What is the reality of the situation there ?

Are they generally completing their flying on time , or is it only the lazy , unmotivated undergrads who aren't getting it done ?

What is the standard of the training like at AAA ?? Where do most of the students go after graduation (aside from their local centrelink office) are any getting jobs , going north etc.

As an outsider the program always looked a bit of a "blow my own trumpet" kind of set up. As they kept advertising the fact that they ran the Qantas cadet program years after the program folded. The Griffith Uni Cathay Pacific cadetship was also quite curious , as all they really seemed to be saying was that after you completed the degree Griffith would provide you with the opportunity to apply. Well couldn't anyone in the world apply to Cathay once they had a CPL (and 250 hours)

Understand Senior Lecturer Tarryn Killie actually lives in Tasmania and delivers her lectures by computer or something, and she is a program manager. This sounds like a highly unusual arrangement , I wonder how many other academics are employed full time as a senior lecturer in Australia & live 2500 km away from their place of work, whilst picking up a six figure salary. I wonder what the students think about this having one of their academics (& they only have four or five full timers) live 2500 km , not available on a M to F basis on campus- getting a fair shake for their HECS ??

Also understand the previous head of Griffith Aviation Paul Bates is now at USQ , and it would seem just set up a new aviation program there. Why did this guy leave ? , did other staff leave ?

All a bit confusing really , is the program a good program ? & would people who have completed it recommend it ? It seems these Uni programs can get complicated with their relationships with flying schools.

[solowflyer]

I'll just put my popcorn in the micro wave.

[zanthrus]

and make a fresh pot of coffee....BING! Popcorn is ready!

[Squawk7700]

I thought you would have learnt from your last tirade of abuse along similar lines in another thread.

[iPahlot]

Being 2500km from where the actual job is? Sure they aren't J* cadets? :}

[j3pipercub]

^
:D:D:D:D:D

[propsmear]

At the risk of getting hooked, I will take a bite.

Wondering how this program is traveling nowadays , how many students in each year of the course etc.

From memory there was 180 which started in my cohort several years ago. That number dwindled down and by the time students started flying training (third year) I would guestimate there was just over a third of those students left.

Have heard that many of the students take substantially longer than the three years to complete their flying training. What is the reality of the situation there ?

The degree covers a three year period and the flight training another year by itself. In total it really is a four year program. On all accounts, those that put in the work and were motivated did finish the training and the degree in that time period.

Are they generally completing their flying on time , or is it only the lazy , unmotivated undergrads who aren't getting it done ?

As above.

What is the standard of the training like at AAA ?? Where do most of the students go after graduation (aside from their local centrelink office) are any getting jobs , going north etc.


The standard of training AAA is probably best left answered by somebody that employed the graduates. I thought the training was good.

Those that were willing to put in the effort and the hard yards for the most part were able to land jobs. Some of these were at airlines in cadet-programs, others in G.A and a handful in the military. It paid to have the right attitude but also be at the right place at the right time. Some people took longer to find work then others, that is the nature of the beast, there are too many pilots for the jobs available. By all accounts those that persevered did find a job.

As an outsider the program always looked a bit of a "blow my own trumpet" kind of set up. As they kept advertising the fact that they ran the Qantas cadet program years after the program folded. The Griffith Uni Cathay Pacific cadetship was also quite curious , as all they really seemed to be saying was that after you completed the degree Griffith would provide you with the opportunity to apply. Well couldn't anyone in the world apply to Cathay once they had a CPL (and 250 hours)

There was a handful that got this opportunity but for the most part, I would agree with you. Those that were silly enough to enter the program with the idea they were going to get a cadetship and be on a jet within a few years were the first to leave.

Understand Senior Lecturer Tarryn Killie actually lives in Tasmania and delivers her lectures by computer or something, and she is a program manager. This sounds like a highly unusual arrangement , I wonder how many other academics are employed full time as a senior lecturer in Australia & live 2500 km away from their place of work, whilst picking up a six figure salary. I wonder what the students think about this having one of their academics (& they only have four or five full timers) live 2500 km , not available on a M to F basis on campus- getting a fair shake for their HECS ??

Also understand the previous head of Griffith Aviation Paul Bates is now at USQ , and it would seem just set up a new aviation program there. Why did this guy leave ? , did other staff leave ?

Don't know enough about this to comment as they were both there when I did the program.

All a bit confusing really , is the program a good program ? & would people who have completed it recommend it ? It seems these Uni programs can get complicated with their relationships with flying schools.

I enjoyed the program, it was a good introduction to a field I really didn't know much about straight out of school. It gave me a little bit of time to mature up and get some exposure. I made some good lifelong friends during the course and I have the pleasure to work with some of them now.

[Blue Goshawk]

Looks like an almost complete bail out of staff to Uni S Qld

[Ultralights]

Understand Senior Lecturer Tarryn Killie actually lives in Tasmania and delivers her lectures by computer or something, and she is a program manager. This sounds like a highly unusual arrangement , I wonder how many other academics are employed full time as a senior lecturer in Australia & live 2500 km away from their place of work, whilst picking up a six figure salary. I wonder what the students think about this having one of their academics (& they only have four or five full timers) live 2500 km , not available on a M to F basis on campus- getting a fair shake for their HECS ??


Nothing unusual about that, the lecturer and course administrator for Advanced medical chemistry at WSU is based at the Penrith campus, yet delivers the lectures to 3 others campuses.

as for the rest, butter popcorn?

[Flyboat North]

You talk about a lecturer who is based at one University campus giving lectures to other campuses

This is a scenario where a lecturer is based in a state 2500 km away from Griffith , where Griffith as no presence , beaming lectures back to Qld. I would say that would be highly unusual in the Aust University context.

How many full time lecturers do Melb / Monash / Deakin have that are based somewhere else in Australia - zero I would suggest.

The students clearly miss out on having someone who is collecting a full time wage from being around the aviation department. Available for extra time outside of tutorials , the casual chats in corridor , attending lab work/ functions. Able to drop in to their office at a whim with queries or ideas.

In other words the person just not being available for the normal student/staff interaction (& availability) that is typical of normal uni courses at normal Australian universities.

[iPahlot]

You talk about a lecturer who is based at one University campus giving lectures to other campuses

This is a scenario where a lecturer is based in a state 2500 km away from Griffith , where Griffith as no presence , beaming lectures back to Qld. I would say that would be highly unusual in the Aust University context.

How many full time lecturers do Melb / Monash / Deakin have that are based somewhere else in Australia - zero I would suggest.

The students clearly miss out on having someone who is collecting a full time wage from being around the aviation department. Available for extra time outside of tutorials , the casual chats in corridor , attending lab work/ functions. Able to drop in to their office at a whim with queries or ideas.

In other words the person just not being available for the normal student/staff interaction (& availability) that is typical of normal uni courses at normal Australian universities.


Yes, yes it is common.

Monash has campuses around Vic and in India, China, Italy, South Africa and Malaysia.

Deakin and Melbourne have campuses spread around Melbourne, Werribee, Shepparton, Warrnambool, Geelong etc etc etc. Now that may not quite be 2500k, but still a long way to walk to "chat to someone in a hallway"...

There are also a heap of other uni's with staff spread around Australia, just look at ACU.

I am curious though, what point are you trying to make precisely?

[Flyboat North]

Yes we all know that Unis have multi campuses , you are missing the point

This scenario just isn't common , in fact I think you would find that it virtually never occurs

The full time academics on Monash Malaysia or Monash south africa , work full time at those unis and teach face to face at those unis

Same deal for the Deakin campuses.

Although unis often record lectures digitally. The fact is that 99.9 % of lectures by Uni A for courses at Uni A , by staff employed by Uni A are delivered face to face at Uni A to the students at Uni A by lecturer A who is employed full time by Uni A. Because as
a full time employer of Uni A , the expectation is that Lecturer A delivers classes face to face

Monash doesn't have academics who for example are paid to teach full time at their Clayton campus , but reside in Mozambique , and beam their lectures in from Africa.

Challenge you to find one set up that is in any way equivalent to this one. That is a full time academic at Uni A in State A , but resides in State B where Uni A has no campus

It just doesn't happen

My point is , are the Griff Uni students getting a fair shake for the HECS dollar ?

[Ultralights]

A lot of staff delivering lectures arnt actually paid staff, a lot are PhD students. most medical studies labs and practical lessons are done by PhD students. with the lecturer or course administrator in contact via internet. i dont see why aviation subjects would be conducted in a different manner.

[Lookleft]

What about the online students? They never get to see the lecturer face to face and they are also paying HECS. Its not an Avocca College course so what is your problem? Don't tell me you failed an aviation degree as well as a cadet selection course?:p

[Flyboat North]

Clearly the res ponders don't have too much of an idea about how things work at regular Unis

But then again why would Aussie pilots know this most are under-educated & never attended a tier 1 (group of 8) or tier 2 uni.

At best most did an aviation degree & aside from UNSW these unis are all ranked well down in world rankings 300 +

Not meaning this as an offense really just a statement of fact, Aust pilots aren't particularly well educated , and they don't need to as they are in a vocation not a profession. Aust Pilots rave on the challenges of ATPLs , get real man they can be done by a year 10 holder in six weeks.

Interesting that the new Head of Griffith Av was bought out from the UK where he was a Senior Lecturer , then promoted to full professor at Griffith. Thus skipping the rank of Associate Prof - again this isn't normal practice. But I think perhaps this wouldn't occur to some of the punters here

[Squawk7700]

I am curious though, what point are you trying to make precisely?

You only have to look at the previous posts of Flyboat North to realise that he is just trolling with an axe to grind. I'm surprised that the mods let it run. I went to a uni that runs remote lecturers and I guess all those off-campus students must be really struggling without the personal face-to-face interaction with the lecturer. In my day, the lecturer did their bit then nicked off and the tutors did the face to face tutorials. In the aviation world, I can only presume that the "tutors" would be qualified as instructors.

[wishiwasupthere]

Not meaning this as an offense really just a statement of fact, Aust pilots aren't particularly well educated

Assuming you're an Australian, did your superior education not teach you that here in Australia, it's spelt 'offence'?

:mad: head.

[Tankengine]

Typical failed pilot/academic rant about people who actually do something for a living.:E
Probably took 20 years to get his arts degree.;)

[iPahlot]

Probably took 20 years to get his arts degree

:ok::ok::ok::ok:

Maybe the lecturer is now 2,500km away because she had to get as far away from FBN wanting to have another whinge in the hallway about his poor grades and how it was someone else's fault...

[Ultralights]

and here i was basing my observations on an Advanced Medical Sciences and medical degree being done by my wife, and my own UNSW degree. but no offence taken as we are all not educated enough to know that we should be.

[Flyboat North]

Well thanks for guy who answered sensibly , some people here seem just a tad sensitive & perhaps even a little reactionary.

Ultra I am sure that your academic subjects at UNSW were delivered by full time academics (lecturers or above) who are employed by the Kensingon campus. They weren't beamed in online by someone who is employed full time by UNSW yet lives in Broome - which is what Griff Avn are effectively doing

As for your comment that lectures are often delivered by PhD students well they might assist an academic deliver a lecture or two a semester. Somewhere like UNSW - very difficult to get a job without a PhD. PhD students might typically work as tutors or lab demonstrators (as you mentioned) - why an earth would the lecturer be on standby on the internet ?? kind of like at mission control or something. Labs for undergrads are pretty basis stuff for PhD students.

What I am trying to do is simply get some feedback from current or recent Griffith grads regarding what seem to be some quite unusual events there.



The departure of previous Avn Head , who then proceeds to set up another aviation degree at USQ - this is unusual



Griffith Avn have on of their full time academics Tarryn Killie , senior lecturer so on around $120K , live in Tasmania & deliver lectures online - in my view this is extremely unusual



A new head of aviation is appointed , who is immediately promoted from being a senior lecturer in the UK , to a full professor at Griffith. Thus skipping the rank of associate prof - this is quite unusual



Hearing from many people that getting the flying done within time frames just isn't happening over the last couple of years

[wishiwasupthere]

Curious as to why you expect people to answer your questions when you've got quite a demonstrated history of dodging any questions or queries pertaining to some of your questionable 'facts' (read, baseless opinions).

[Ultralights]

Ultra I am sure that your academic subjects at UNSW were delivered by full time academics (lecturers or above) who are employed by the Kensingon campus. They weren't beamed in online by someone who is employed full time by UNSW yet lives in Broome - which is what Griff Avn are effectively doing


Actually, one of the lecturers works full time at my current place of employment, and was running one of the subject i was doing at UNSW.. the UNSW work wasnt his full time profession..


from my uni experiences, what Griffith Uni is doing is not that unusual, not common, granted, but not unusual either.

[Flyboat North]

That is because UNSW aviation employs some staff on a "sessional" basis or they are adjunct Profs etc. Never pretend that they are full time

The normal occurrence when you are employed full time at a University as a lecturer is that you attend your workplace more or less M to F from about 8:30 to 4:30 or 9 to 5 all days except public holidays. Really no different to someone who works full time at a law service or factory around the corner from a Uni.

It would seem to be a wonderful condition of service to be located 2500 km from your place of employment and beam your lectures in for your 4 to 6 hours of teaching per week. Whilst collecting a pay check as a senior lecturer of what would it be $110K to $140K.

Just wondering what the current undergraduates at Griffith Aviation think of this. In your experience is also wonderful for you ? Getting a fair shake for the HECS debt you are incurring ?

Would challenge anyone to produce anyone else who has the same arrangements in Australia. That the academic is employed full time by a university to work at that university, but resides 2500km. And drops by to do their lectures for a few hours a week by Twitter or facebook , giving her students a wonderful social media experience.

[Ultralights]

In your experience is also wonderful for you ? Getting a fair shake for the HECS debt you are incurring ?
My experience has been great, and no debt, i have been paying upfront, mostly my own money.. now, back to study for my next exam on Monday...

[josephfeatherweight]

FBN, from your previous posting history, you don't strike me as an altruistic type of dude. Sorry, but that's not how you come across.
So, why are you really so hung up about this 2500km thingy you keep banging on about?

[Cuban Eight]

Understand Senior Lecturer Tarryn Killie actually lives in Tasmania and delivers her lectures by computer or something, and she is a program manager.

Griffith Avn have on of their full time academics Tarryn Killie , senior lecturer so on around $120K , live in Tasmania & deliver lectures online - in my view this is extremely unusual

and beam your lectures in for your 4 to 6 hours of teaching per week. Whilst collecting a pay check as a senior lecturer of what would it be $110K to $140K.

And drops by to do their lectures for a few hours a week by Twitter or facebook , giving her students a wonderful social media experience.

You are making some very public assumptions about this woman's situation without providing any evidence to your claims. From misspelling her name to stipulating her salary, her whereabouts and her basis of employment even down to her weekly workload and her use of social media, you quite clearly have an alternative agenda to the one you are professing. You should tread carefully here.

A new head of aviation is appointed , who is immediately promoted from being a senior lecturer in the UK , to a full professor at Griffith. Thus skipping the rank of associate prof - this is quite unusual

No, it is not. Every institution has their own criteria for academic title. If someone joins a new university and meets their criteria for a professorship, they can have that title after due review. With that title will come a change in responsibility and role and some academics move universities for just this purpose, with an academic title being a term of their employment. Not unusual at all.

[Flyboat North]

Academic salaries are public record in Australia , no secret really.

Stick to my viewpoint that is quiet unusual for academics to skip "grades" not to say it doesn't ever happen, but I would suggest really very rarely. The Unis & academics really very hierarchical in Australia, imagine something like an established uni faculty say Syd Uni Law school & they hired a senior Lecturer from WA and appointed them a full professor. There would pretty much be a rebellion by staff.

Imagine the huffing & puffing at Qantas if they appointed a SO as a Capt
"my gosh we just couldn't possibly do something outside of seniority ..... could we now"

No agenda my friend , really quite ambivalent about it all.

Just asking some questions about Griffith aviation & how it is all going, as it would appear that just perhaps some unusual goings on.

[iPahlot]

How is a single person indicative of a whole program? So I wouldn't say you're "ambivalent" about it. It sounds more like you've got (another) axe to grind. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

I have worked in industries other than aviation and telecommuting is prevalent everywhere! It is far from some easy bludge job, it requires discipline and often sacrifice of your own time as you might be interacting with people well outside of the hours a normal working person might encounter. If a lecturer in Sydney has a morning lecture and a night tute they might work 9:00 to 19:30. If someone in WA is giving the same lecture in Sydney during daylight savings time then they are commencing work at 06:00 local time.

Academic salaries are public record in Australia , no secret really

Speaking of public record, I'm sure there are many PPRUNER's that cannot wait for the day you get publicly named after someone slaps you with a defamation suit, because you my "friend" have pretty much already committed career suicide. :rolleyes:

[Propjet88]

Mods,

May I respectfully suggest that this thread is closed please? A member is openly criticising the alleged work contract of a named person, under a thread purporting to be about an institution.

The pay scales of the various grades at academic institutions in Australia are indeed a matter of public record, but individual contracts are certainly not.

By the way, the publicly aired suppositions about the nature of the individual's contract are completely wrong and I would suggest that the context in which they are aired are a gnat's whisker away from defamation.

Fly safe
PJ

[josephfeatherweight]

No, no, no! Let him keep digging!
(His own hole, not slanderous info on the lecturer...)

[Cuban Eight]

May I respectfully suggest that this thread is closed please? A member is openly criticising the alleged work contract of a named person, under a thread purporting to be about an institution.

a gnat's whisker away from defamation.

Totally agree. This thread is full of toxic, unfounded assumptions.

[snoop doggy dog]

Bin the thread and ban this person.

Talks well and truly from their ring piece :mad:

[Flyboat North]

What a interesting perspective you Chaps have.

Especially when on this forum you regularly call the QF CEO , QF Chairman , CASA officials pretty much every name under the sun under the veil of anonymity.

True Gutless wonders

[Lookleft]

Well I hope the ladie's lawyers will be able to explain the difference to you.:=