Alcoholism...

[Overtemp]

Well yes I know, not something you'd think would go well with flying.
My situation is this, and without going into agony aunts forum(!), my girlfriend I have discovered has a drinking problem, reasons, symptoms etc are by the by, but she is now considering on doing her CPL.
She already has a PPL.
Will the upgrade from class 2 to class 1 pick this up, as I understand it they don't do a standard drugs and alcohol test for initials, or do they? This is for an Australian licence.
And as we know, there are quite a few pilots out there that drink heavily yet keep getting their medicals renewed.

[gingernut]

What do you mean by a "drinking problem?"

(how much, how often, does she feel she should cut down, has she ever felt guilty after drinking, does she need an "eye opener," is she annoyed by criticism of her drinking.) Also, how long has she been drinking heavilly , is she otherwise well, any other illnesses?

[Overtemp]

I don't really want to get into specfics.
Suffice to say I have become very well educated on it in a short space of time since discovering it.
Yes the classic symptoms, hiding it, annoyed by criticism on drinking, and more
I do not know for how long it has been going on.
No other known illnesses.
Quantity is around 1-3 bottles per week of vodka plus any wine.
The vodka is drank pretty much well straight.
It is not my place to accuse her directly of alcoholism, nor am I able to help her unless she wants it, and is going off topic to enter into this side of it.
All I want to know if this is likely to be picked up in a normal class 1 initial exam so I can prepare for the outcome when she comes home!

[777AV8R]

As a counsellor in alcohol and drug dependance, it is rather disturbing to read your post.

A good doctor may pick up on some abnormalities that can be found in blood tests, having to do with liver function. Depending on the severity of the problem, there are certain motor skill tests that could be done with regard to eyes and coordination. (the patient need not be actively drinking for several days). It is entirely possible for a person to slide through a medical without a raising questions, however; as the disease progresses, it will become only a matter of time.

The moral dilema then becomes...If knowing full well that there is reason to believe that someone is dependant on alcohol or any other drug...is there not some obligation to 'step in' and intervene.

Intervention sometimes works if a person is not seeking help themselves. There are many social taboos that tend to restrict people from 'stepping in' to help someone with a dependancy issue. Most tend to think that making a person aware of their drinking problems, affront them with ruining their fun. Not so. At the end of the day, it is the diseased individual who has to accept responsibility for their situation. We treat cancer and heart disease regularly, sometimes with no success....alcoholism is a disease and can be treated...the success rate is excellent if a program is followed.

The sooner that help is sought, the easier the recovery.

[M.Mouse]

My late grandfather was an alcoholic. A very wealthy, smart and educated man addicted to alcohol. Rarely drunk as such but usually intoxicated. It is an illness and I believe until the person concerned recognises that they have a problem it is difficult to help.

Have you tried contacting Alcoholics Anonymous or the Australian equivalent? There is a wealth of help and information available and they might be the key to assisting your girlfriend on to the road to recovery.

I would suggest that the first step in gaining her CPL is finding a way of helping her face her problem.

Good Luck.

[BlueEagle]

In addition to the advice given above you should also remember that, should your girl friend ever carry passengers, either on her PPL or CPL, presuming she gets it, if you know that she is unfit through drink you should tell someone and get her stopped.

Drastic and unpopular but very necessary - you cannot simply let it go and hope for the best, you must do something.

[Mac the Knife]

YOU need to contact AlAnon, the organisation for family/friends/spouses of alcoholics ASAP.

They know all about this sort of problem and will give you excellent non-judgemental advice.

This is a very dangerous situation that I have some experience of so email me if you want to discuss further.

[Wedge]

Overtemp, you are right there is a lot of alcoholism in the aviation industry, but for obvious reasons it is not often talked about. Good earnings and lots of spare evenings in hotels do not help the situation.

Most pilots who do have a problem are able to control it by drinking at certain times and before days off etc. Cases of pilots reporting for duty under the influence are very rare.

Passing the medicals is easy for alcoholic pilots provided they lay off for a few days before and lie about how much they drink when questioned.

In other words, your girlfriend could pass the Class 1 medical if she did the above but I would strongly advise that she gets this problem treated. As everyone above agrees, alcoholism is an illness (heredity is almost certainly a factor), and it can be treated very successfully, IF the patient is willing to accept that they have a problem.

[Overtemp]

Thanks to replying to my post guys.
Yes I have been attending Al-anon, some 10 or so sessions now
So I am in a bit of a pickle now seeing as most are saying I should intervene. It has taken me a long time to get myself right by not focusing on her.

Intervening goes against the grain of Al-anon, and could make her drink even more.

She does not admit to the problem and is in 'denial'.

[Mac the Knife]

Tell her that if she doesn't start going to AA meetings that you'll leave her. If you're noticing 1-3 bottles of vodka/week you can bet it's more (check garage, car, garden shed, pantie drawers, boots, toilet cisterns etc.) Denial is part of the illness and may persist long after she has been denied her CPL and lost her PPL (and her house and her car and her boyfriend).

Intervention may be your only chance. Unfortunately more people recover from cancer than from alcoholism.

If she doesn't stop drinking then you'll be forced to leave her anyway eventually, but by then your life will be in almost as many shreds as hers.

[Oleo]

Interesting to say that you don't want to "interfere" as this "could make her drink even more". I would have thought Al Anon would make it clear that you are not responsible for her drinking and can't pussyfoot around hoping to alleviate/stop/reduce etc.


Yes, you love her, but best advice is as above: make an ultimatum that she either gets help now or you are gone. Otherwise prepare yourself for the slippery, everdownwards and painful slope that alcoholics take themselves and all who are near and dear. Harsh but true.

Someone with a drink problem should not be operating complex machinery, let alone machinery with people on board. A responsible person would report her drinking to the authorities if she does nothing to address it herself. Alcoholism is an illness/addiction and given the right reslove and treatment she should be able to overcome her addiction. You are not doing youself, or her, any favours by sweeping it under the carpet.

Good luck to you both.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Very difficult situation, but the bottom line is that alcohol and flying don't mix. Alcoholics are liars, often both to themselves and other people. They are simply untrustworthy (and will generally admit that) and I am not prepared to believe any alcoholic who says they keep their drinking and their flying apart.

I can understand why you say this:

It is not my place to accuse her directly of alcoholism, nor am I able to help her unless she wants it, and is going off topic to enter into this side of it.

However, I think you are wrong and that you have a moral responsibility to do all you can to prevent her flying while she remains an alcoholic in denial, especially flying with passengers and triple especially with fare-paying passengers. Even if you have to take radical action, in the long run she will thank you for it.

You won't be as guilty as her if she kills a planeload of passengers as a result of her alcoholism, but you will bear some guilt if you do not do your utmost to stop her, even shopping her to the authorities if necessary.

QDM

[Overtemp]

777AV8R
can you contact me, I can't email you according to your profile