C-130 Crash in USA Firefighting

[WhichWay?]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/38082000/rm/_38082047_colorado06_pannell_vi.ram

Condolences to all.

Never seen this happen to a Herc before.

[PaperTiger]

Never seen this happen to a Herc before. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001206X02066&key=1

[Sloppy Link]

PT

I think the reply rhymes with duck.

Sad.

[PaperTiger]

Post on the AAP board says all civilian C-130 air tankers are grounded. Could be the end, I imagine few would miss them.
Don't if this applies to the AFRES ones which were drafted in for the Colorado fire just recently.

[Matt Black]

I logged over 200 hours on a Herc as a flight test observer, and I'd never seen that report before. A sobering thought indeed. I wonder how many other aircraft suffer a similar problem. Wasn't this similar to the theory advanced for TWA flight 800, or is my memory going?

Thoughts are with the families affected, at least they can take comfort in the knowledge their kin were doing a vital job.

[UNCTUOUS]

this link (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56870&pagenumber=4)

and this one (http://www.iprr.org/COMPS/T82story.htm)

for the more likely story.

[Mike RO'Channel]

My thoughts are with the families of those who died doing such a dangerous service. However, a number of thoughts spring to mind having read this thread:

1. What is speed/ht profile for such firefighting tasks - the recent ac looked like it was travelling fast and the 1994 ac was reportedly doing 250kts! Why so fast in (likely) turbulent conditions?

2. Why did the NTSB not carry out a more complete investigation in 1994 and what sort of investigation is being done for this accident - initial findings etc?

3. Are there any similarities with the Herc crash in Scotland in 1993? (RAF Hercs re-winged in 1970s?)

4. What of the recent ops/crashes in Afghanistan - including fatigue surveys for USAF/RAF ac?

[Mike RO'Channel]

Another thing from the secord investigation of 1994 crash.

'Chartered airspeed 198 KIAS' seems a bit low compared to speeds we used to use at LL (even at Vno2/3) - is the A model less robust than the E model (UK Cmk1/3)?

[TigerFlyer130]

With regards to the families and friends of the crew.

The Firefighting C130 that recently crashed after "total flight control failure" (Wing falling off), two words:

Transverse Load.

As an active C130 Pilot in the USAF/ANG, like all the pilots in my squadron, took a serious look at the tapes and figures surrounding the catastrophe of that aircraft. We in the flying circles have studied since lesson 1 of the first day of flying about lift and weight and airspeed. The bottom line? Too fast, too low, far too hot. Unfortunate? Absolutely. Avoidable? Absolutely.

Again, I mean no disrepect to the families and loved ones of the crew, they were certainly brave and flying a dangerous breed of mission, but it's important to find something to learn from in everything. Most notably, the mistakes that others as well as ourselves, that we might not make the same ones again.

Keep em' Flying!

[FJJP]

For some reason I have been unable to view the video. I have Quicktime, Real Time and Windows Media Player but none will load the video. What am I doing wrong, and is there an alternative source of the video other than the Beeb?

[Big Green Arrow]

With regard to the Scotland question...as far as I know that was not similar to the recent crash...they were too slow..too low..with few exit options available.

[DutchRoll]

Perhaps someone will correct me if I'm off the mark here, but those firefighting C130s were the old A model and I believe had the original (unmodified) centre wing section.

If so, I'm left wondering why they were still being flown on such duties.

The centre wing (and also outer wings for that matter) of the C130A was a weak design, and has been known as such since the very early years of the C130 after several wing failures in flight. To my knowledge most operators of early C130s all those decades ago modified their centre (and outer) wings when Lockheed came up with a better design. As an aside the Herc finally got the beefy solid wing design it really needed on the C130H.

[Bassett]

I was in the California at the time of this tragic incident and the local news said that the ac had recently had repairs done to cracks in the wing!

I don't know for sure, but it is likely to have been an old ac operated with a high zero fuel wt and low fuel state, add the required hard handling in that role and a bit of turbulence and the old C130 is in a high fatigue zone.

There are no similarities to this accident and the RAF scotland crash.

Condolences to all who knew the crew.