Last Vulcan flight [Archive]

Evanelpus

5th Oct 2015, 14:12

I went to Old Warden yesterday and apart from the show being a sell out the fields and lanes around the airfield were lined with spectators. Don't know if it caused any problems but it demonstrated the draw the Vulcan has on people.

I was in one of the fields and left straight after the Vulcan display. Local plod had closed access from G&M Growers down to Shuttleworth but it was open the other way. A little bit of chaos on the road from G&M to Sandy (Inconsiderate parkers) but apart from that it looked pretty smooth. There again, I only had to struggle back to Potton!

Needless to say, but it was a magnificent spectacle. I worked on them, as a young technician and never thought I'd see one flying some 55 yrs later!

Spent 10 wonderful years servicing them. I can say wonderful now but I'm sure back in the day I used to curse them. I lost so much skin and shed a load of blood removing and refitting the hydraulic valves in the back of the nose wheel bay. Aaah, happy days.:)

BBK

5th Oct 2015, 15:06

Spekesoftly

Yes you're quite correct. Got my days mixed up. Thanks for the info.

Evanelpus, Goudie

Sadly I've never been in one but the late BBK senior was a techie on 230 OCU hence my interest and desire to say farewell the old girl.

regards

BBK

barry lloyd

5th Oct 2015, 15:44

I was in a field at Old Warden too, yesterday. The noise of the engines really reverberated around the hills. It was a magnificent sight. I don't think the other flying creatures were too impressed though!

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/tango15_photos/27f6b96f-f449-4a1e-af1f-3faba40e7667_zpsouffmety.jpg?1444059720281&1444059725860&1444059732329

the_flying_cop

5th Oct 2015, 16:12

It's a sorry state of affairs that people are getting windy about a few traffic jams and people stood about. This is truly the end of an era, there will be crowds, and there will be traffic. The powers that be should not be interfering with this and threatening to cancel the farewell.

Many many years ago when I pounded the beat, I was driving my jam butty along and I saw quite a gathering at the end of what was 24R at Manchester. I wound down my window and asked someone what was going on. I was told Concorde was coming in.

I parked up, moved a couple of cars on that had been parked stupidly and then just tried my best to keep everything moving without any issues.

I even managed to look skyward when the mighty Concorde arrived.

These things happen so rarely it should just be embraced.

barry lloyd

5th Oct 2015, 16:23

In any other country, it would have been live on TV. What were the BBC showing? The Great British Bake Off :rolleyes:

Interested Passenger

5th Oct 2015, 16:28

From their website it's more a concern at Robin Hood where spectators could be blocking access for emergency services.

fortunately her turning circle is pretty big, so had great views over at Cranfield when she was doing shuttleworth

here she is with the arrows for the last time (https://youtu.be/63Htlsbmd00)

22/04

6th Oct 2015, 12:40

I think that after Shoreham there are concerns about off airfield spectating.

By buying a ticket for an airshow you have accepted that there may be some increased risk by being there.

It is not clear that is the case for off airfield spectating and there is therefore a greater chance of a gaining a larger legal settlement in the event of a claim for compensation.

The effect of that would to be to increase insurance cover required by organisers- something I for one would not want to see.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

6th Oct 2015, 15:55

According to VTTS website, this weekend's 'farewell Tour' (10 / 11 Oct) will NOT be 558's last ever flight.

John Farley

8th Oct 2015, 15:38

It is not clear that is the case for off airfield spectating and there is therefore a greater chance of a gaining a larger legal settlement in the event of a claim for compensation.

True. But it is also not clear what case you have if watching between two police notices that say no viewing from here.

DaveReidUK

8th Oct 2015, 16:54

I think that after Shoreham there are concerns about off airfield spectating.

The concern here is more the effect on the local community around Robin Hood Airport of large numbers of people and vehicles blocking roads and hampering emergency services, rather than the likelihood of XH558 falling out of the sky on top of them.

Peter-RB

10th Oct 2015, 15:47

The Mighty Delta winged craft overflew Stonyhurst College in the Ribble valley at almost silent mode with just barely a ripple of the famous stained glass windows, sadly I was inside at a meeting, with people who were not really interested in Old Bombers making the comments about it looking a little like it is past its sell by date....well that it may be, but I am mortified to have missed the Big V:sad:

the_flying_cop

10th Oct 2015, 18:31

I took a ride up to Salmesbury to watch the old girl sail past. It was quite magnificent. Very very quiet, and a lovely lazy right turn towards Warton and she was gone. Quite a contrast to the 'high energy' show she put on at Southport.

I was parked at KFC on the A577 on the south of the old airfield, and the road (double yellowed) was lined with cars parked everywhere. One Lancashire Traffic car meandered down the line and thankfully just carried on its way, obviously fully aware of the significance of today's event.

It will be a shame that she will no longer fly round these parts, but I would like to extend my gratitude to all those who have flown her, fixed her, and paid for her during the past few years.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

11th Oct 2015, 12:09

Her passage over Woodford (ex) airfield was a tad restrained, as well. I wonder if she had the fuel to do much more than gentle fly-bys while still completing the sortie (being as it's all at low level the fuel consumption must be prodigious).

BEagle

12th Oct 2015, 06:58

The following 'Howgozit' graph for the Vulcan shows a burn rate of about 10000 lb per hour at FL400 and about 12000 lb per hour at 250 KIAS at low level:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Vulcan%20How%20Gozit_zps2ilvsrg2.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/nw969/media/Vulcan%20How%20Gozit_zps2ilvsrg2.jpg.html)

That was for XH561 on 18 Mar 1980; we had a 181000 lb TOW for a 4:15 flight at high level. Whereas XH558 is much lighter and burns a lot less fuel.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

12th Oct 2015, 09:37

Thanks for that. It looks like 3 to 4 hours at low level is doable in a standard Vulcan, so should be easier for 558. But 558 was maneuvering a lot, with power changes, and one wonders how much 'slack' there'd be in the fuel burn to allow anything more than fairly restrained fly-bys at the waypoints. Certainly not enough for anything dramatic at EACH waypoint one presumes?

I understand that on Saturday 558 cut it short at EMA and headed home due fuel state, so presumably, despite a gentle sortie, there wasn't an awful lot of fuel left at the end.

scudpilot

12th Oct 2015, 10:39

Taken at Farnborough yesterday.
Light went to crap shortly before arrval!

:(

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/592/21904885890_3f7eddaf4a_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/znEgqo)IMG_6252 (https://flic.kr/p/znEgqo) by Jim Pritchard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimpritchard67/), on Flickr

Peter-RB

12th Oct 2015, 11:02

Have we finally seen the last of the Dear old Vulcan? or is some fiendish plan being hatched to do something else with her??

Shaggy Sheep Driver

12th Oct 2015, 11:06

Final flight later this month, not yet announced as far as I know. Probably local to Doncaster so maybe they'll chuck her around a bit as fuel endurance won't be an issue!

After that she'll be grounded but will do occasional taxy runs (not taxi runs unfortunately!).

falcon12

12th Oct 2015, 12:48

Since this is Rumour Network, the rumour is that it has something to do with BAe Warton, being on the ground for the staff to look at, then back to Doncaster I presume. To take place second half of the month.

One presumes that BAe are paying for it.............not a rumour, just a thought.

Chris Scott

13th Oct 2015, 09:51

From scudpilot:
"Taken at Farnborough yesterday.
Light went to crap shortly before arrval!"

Interesting to compare with one taken in clear air near Burgess Hill (see Military thread). Can endorse your complaint about the haze. We were on the hillock called Caesar's Camp, about 2.5 miles SW of Farnborough aerodrome, and she descended into it when approaching from Dunsfold. I think it was pollution brought from London on the north-easterly wind. Disappointing, but at least you got a different shot from the others!

Shaggy Sheep Driver

13th Oct 2015, 14:14

Prob 90 a temperature inversion due the prevailing high pressure, Chris. All the atmospheric crud gets trapped below the inversion as it cuts off vertical air movement. As you descend into it (pass through the inversion layer) viz can go from virtually unlimited to a few km.

Chris Scott

13th Oct 2015, 14:20

Shaggy Sheep Driver:
"As you descend into it (pass through the inversion layer) viz can go from virtually unlimited to a few km."

Aaah, yes, those were the days... :sad:

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

14th Oct 2015, 08:03

On Radio 4 yesterday, they had the mating call of a Vulcan on the Today Programme around 2:39:15 BBC Radio 4 - Today, 13/10/2015 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06gqx6b)

Spartacan

14th Oct 2015, 14:55

Daily Telegraph today:

Stunning photographs of Vulcan bomber XH558 flying over Beachy Head - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/11930957/Stunning-photographs-of-Vulcan-bomber-XH558-flying-over-Beachy-Head.html?frame=3472232)

Now I know what to do when I grow up . . .

Fishaman

26th Oct 2015, 20:27

So the D Day looms, why 30th and not 31st?

Any info regarding if it is actually going to happen, the e-letter last Thursday still mentioned a final flight but they are leaving it late......

zed3

27th Oct 2015, 08:49

There is to be another flight before or on 30th but it's top secret. Seemingly the top copper of South Yorkshire has threatened to close Doncaster Airport if roads are blocked there. Some people.........harrumph.

Fishaman

27th Oct 2015, 18:25

Final Flight Confirmed

Following the positive negotiations with the airport that we announced on Friday, a final flight has been confirmed but with substantial restrictions. To absolutely guarantee that there is no disruption to their operations from the crowds that are expected, their primary requirement is that the flight takes place at very short notice.

We have agreed to this with regret because we believe it is important to have a symbolic end to flying, which is professionally recorded and made available to you as video and stills, but understanding the disappointment that it will rightly bring to all those who have generously supported XH558 and would like to see the final touch-down.

As discussed previously, any delays to commercial flights due to congestion around the airport will be extremely expensive for them and they will have no choice but to pass those costs on to the Trust, which would have a dramatic impact on the future of XH558. It is for this reason that our original plans for an event around the final flight had to be cancelled with apologies to all those who deserve to be there. Thank you again for understanding this difficult position.

We have used almost all the available flying hours taking her to you, across the UK this year, flying more than 50% longer than in any previous year, with many thanks to Marshall Aerospace, the Civil Aviation Authority, and K M Dastur, our aviation insurance brokers, for agreeing this extension.

After such a fabulous year, we have only a handful of minutes left, so the final flight will be around 15 minutes with no display, simply saying Farewell to the Skies.

We are still negotiating exactly how much notice can be provided, requesting a reasonable relaxation of the original very strict requirement. Do please keep a close eye on our social media – Facebook Vulcan XH558 (http://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/UgEXSPkfi-wmT_TeTVVgQGgBf_8bhMO9jcuvayP1_0c) and Twitter @XH558 (http://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/UgEXSPkfi-wmT_TeTVVgQFxffQR2ztgUahqGhxDKj38) (repeated on our website (http://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/UgEXSPkfi-wmT_TeTVVgQPClIhh3tJ_t1S5qhZA5nPM)) – for updates and for details of how to see the flight live, online.

Exnomad

27th Oct 2015, 22:02

I worked on the bits of V bombers that turned them from simply being an aircraft into a weapon. Thankfully it never came to that.

Phileas Fogg

28th Oct 2015, 10:00

I worked on the bits of V bombers that turned them from simply being an aircraft into a weapon. Thankfully it never came to that.

I think some Argentinean ground workers might disagree with that statement!

Tim00

28th Oct 2015, 14:18

Final flight of 15 minutes' duration just announced & will be shown live on http://planestv.com/live/369 (http://planestv.com/live)looks like about 14:40 UK time.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

28th Oct 2015, 15:54

Link went down and missed the landing - recording of landing shown a few minutes later.

BEagle

28th Oct 2015, 22:11

....a final flight has been confirmed but with substantial restrictions. To absolutely guarantee that there is no disruption to their operations from the crowds that are expected, their primary requirement is that the flight takes place at very short notice.

Oh purrleeze. 'Operations' from RobinDoncasterFinningleyHoodMaidMarian International are pitifully few. For example, between 08:00-18:00 tomorrow they have a mere 3 (yes, three) scheduled arrivals and 4 scheduled departures.....

If the chief rozzer of the area thinks that Vulcan-twitchers might somehow delay such a handful of CAT flights, he must be even more stupid than the rest of his species....:mad:

Shaggy Sheep Driver

28th Oct 2015, 22:14

youtube coverage was rubbish. Looked like one circuit only, and they missed the landing.

Something called 'periscope' shows what must be a go-around (as on youtube the t/o was followed by an over-the-vertical wing over) and this didn't do that so presumably wasn't the t/o. Then a touch and go. Then the final landing.

Anyone know what this aeroplane actually did on its last flight?

India Four Two

29th Oct 2015, 05:01

SSD,

periscope is an app that allows anyone to stream live video from their smart phone, provided of course that they have a good WiFi connection.

As I said on another thread, the live coverage was pathetic.

spekesoftly

29th Oct 2015, 10:20

Anyone know what this aeroplane actually did on its last flight?

Take-Off RWY 02, R/H wing-over, reposition RWY 20 and flies down the runway, L/H circuit into low approach and go-around RWY 20, L/H circuit into touch and go RWY 20, L/H circuit to land RWY 20 and deploys brake-chute, returns to stand and greeted by water-cannon salute from Airport Fire Service.

As shown on a different video posted on the VTTS forum website.

AD0g2CKM5nk

Shaggy Sheep Driver

29th Oct 2015, 11:54

Many thanks, Speak.

falcon12

29th Oct 2015, 14:18

Well done speak. A far better effort than what was produced from the other side of the runway.

Anyone is free to add their own thoughts to what they were seeing and add it to their memories of past involvements (mine at Finningley in 65/66 working on 558 and others) or what they saw over the last 8 years or more.

Peter-RB

29th Oct 2015, 15:37

What a brilliant and well done video, it seems strange to me that an aircraft my Uncle Les was connected with at 617 was relevant through out my early and teenage years has just stopped flying in the skies around the UK, what a design crew that must have had, not only is it a serious salute to the RAF, but also the AVRO company and Roy Chadwick with his skilled engineers, I doubt any of us will ever see such ability again.

Thank you Spekesoftly for such a good and embracing final flight record, just wonderful.

Peter R-B :ok::D:D

spekesoftly

29th Oct 2015, 18:24

SSD, f12 and P-RB

Kind words and thank you, but just to put the record straight, the video was not made by me, and if I inadvertently gave that impression, my apologies. I simply found it on the VTTS website.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

29th Oct 2015, 18:50

speke, no I knew it was a VVTS video. Just thanks for finding and posting it.

ZeBedie

29th Oct 2015, 22:37

We call it the Avro Vulcan, never the BAe Vulcan. So why is (sorry, was) it powered by RR Olympus, not Bristol Olympus?

Or to put it another way, why is Avro given the recognition it richly deserves but Bristol ignored?

Private jet

30th Oct 2015, 23:48

A superb machine (despite the "military" cockpit). It looks right and probably flew right too. I've only known a couple of people that flew it and they loved it (despite THAT smell) It's a pity the RAF crashed the first one, at Heathrow of all places too. Some sort of Air Marshall in the cockpit, A PAR "talkdown", they didn't get it right (all those medals and they still couldn't land.....) both pilots ejected and left their colleagues to fry....
Apparently the Air Marshall's brother was an interesting case also.

Wageslave

31st Oct 2015, 00:33

PJ, your post is just offensive. NO, it's downright ignorant too.
Shame on you.

Private jet

31st Oct 2015, 00:40

Why?......

Wageslave

31st Oct 2015, 01:00

Why??? Are you serious?

OK, I'll bite.

despite the "military" cockpit
You think a "military cockpit" detracted from the machine's quality? Why? How? What was wrong with it? What other type of cockpit do you suggest a military aircraft should have? I take it you think there a civilian alternative that would have been more suitable?

despite THAT smell
The smell of a Vulcan put people off loving it? First I've heard of that. I'd always been told everyone loved the characteristic smell...

It's a pity the RAF crashed the first one
"The" first Vulcan, was it? No prototypes made beforehand then? Perhaps you meant "their" first one which isn't the same thing. Your unnecessarily sarcastic point is rather undermined by inaccuracy. Sloppy.

at Heathrow of all places too
God, they've gone and had an accident at Heathrow (roll eyes). Bah! Whatever will the fools do next. And your point is...?

Some sort of Air Marshall
You seem to have a grudge against Air Marshals, and/or the RAF. Superiority complex?
btw, the spelling is Marshal with one "l".

all those medals and they still couldn't land.....)
That's just nasty, spiteful and infantile. What is your problem with the RAF?

both pilots ejected and left their colleagues to fry
That, Sir, is beyond the pale. A foul and inappropriate slur on the good character of two senior officers, men the likes of whom you'll never be fit to wipe the boots of.
They didn't specify the ejector seat fit. The Sec. of State for Air told Parliament it was their "duty" to eject. Are you really so arrogant you feel qualified to overrule his view? Or just so qualified in 1950s military morals and ethics to know that one just doesn't eject if anyone else is going to be hurt? What would you have done? Poignantly failed to eject and die with the others in the most futile of futile gestures I suppose. Yeah right.

And a final nasty personal swipe at his brother for offences apparently upsetting to Private Jet of an unspecified nature. That's shameful too.

So, you se, there's scarcely a word of your post that isn't unpleasant, inaccurate, spiteful or just downright nasty.

A mean, spiteful, little futile gesture is what you are, that's for sure, and that's being very polite indeed.

Private jet

31st Oct 2015, 01:51

You think a "military cockpit" detracted from the machine's quality? Why? How? What was wrong with it? What other type of cockpit do you suggest a military aircraft should have? I take it you think there a civilian alternative that would have been more suitable?

No not at all, the guys I know who flew them said it was cramped and uncomfortable on long sectors.

The smell of a Vulcan put people off loving it? First I've heard of that. I'd always been told everyone loved the characteristic smell...

You mean the mix of "hydraulic fluid and vomit"?

"The" first Vulcan, was it? No prototypes made beforehand then? Perhaps you meant "their" first one which isn't the same thing. Your unnecessarily sarcastic point is rather undermined by inaccuracy. Sloppy

You're a pedantic person aren't you? Yes, the first RAF one.

God, they've gone and had an accident at Heathrow (roll eyes). Bah! Whatever will the fools do next. And your point is...?

Maybe if they'd planned to land elsewhere without all the pomp and ceremony waiting for them they might have been less inclined to "risk it"

You seem to have a grudge against Air Marshals, and/or the RAF. Superiority complex?

No not at all but I know some in the service certainly do have a superiority complex, you're right on that point.

That's just nasty, spiteful and infantile. What is your problem with the RAF?

I don't have a "problem" as you put it. However "medals, a good pilot (or good person for that matter) do not make"....

And a final nasty personal swipe at his brother for offences apparently upsetting to Private Jet of an unspecified nature. That's shameful too.

I knew someone that was nearly killed by the brother in a 707 incident. Unfortunately the brother was the Captain at the time, so back off pal. Also if you really know anything you'd know exactly what eventually happened to that brother.

DaveReidUK

31st Oct 2015, 07:48

A PAR "talkdown", they didn't get it right (all those medals and they still couldn't land.....)

Didn't the RAF Court of Inquiry conclude that the GCA controller's failure to warn the captain that he was going below the glide path was the principal cause of the accident ?

flapsin

31st Oct 2015, 18:12

Well, I had the privilege to fly with an ex Vulcan nav when on 39 sqn (Canberra PR9)who attended the infamous Bomber Command Dining In Night for all V force crews at I believe Scampton. He recalled that the same Air Marshal was the guest of honour and was repeatedly shouted down when he attempted to deliver an after dinner speech until he gave up. The calls from the floor were he said "Murderer, murderer" This was before my time in the RAF but I believe my nav completely. I doubt all of Bomber Command could be wrong. This embarrassing spectacle and subsequent mayhem were suppressed with a D Notice.
As regards the cockpit, it was originally designed for 1 pilot, so unsurprisingly cramped for 2.
I assume the GCA at LHR was a PAR, I find it impossible to believe that a controller could fail to advise deviations from the glide slope, such guidance being part and parcel of this type of approach. If it was an SRA he would just have passed advisory heights. Either way, I believe the Vulcan's pressure instruments at that time were not fully calibrated and a diversion would have been prudent. The aircraft captain showed poor command qualities in allowing the approach to continue in poor weather conditions.
I make this contribution fully aware of the Air Marshal's wartime career, but in this instance I believe his actions were responsible for the loss of 4 lives, and if my nav is to be believed, so did the crews of Bomber Command at Scampton that infamous night.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

31st Oct 2015, 18:26

Is it true the cockpit was originally designed for 1 pilot? I'd heard this but have been unable to get confirmation. Can anyone point me at a definitive answer?

sooty655

31st Oct 2015, 19:53

Is it true the cockpit was originally designed for 1 pilot? I'd heard this but have been unable to get confirmation. Can anyone point me at a definitive answer?
Urban myth ~ the Ministry of Supply order specification against which the three V-bombers were built required two pilots and three rear crew.

You mean the mix of "hydraulic fluid and vomit"?
There are no hydraulic systems in the cockpit (except the brake master cylinders) so your quote seems a little mis-informed.

DaveReidUK

31st Oct 2015, 21:26

The aircraft captain showed poor command qualities in allowing the approach to continue in poor weather conditions.
I make this contribution fully aware of the Air Marshal's wartime career, but in this instance I believe his actions were responsible for the loss of 4 lives

I'm confused - wasn't the approach being flown by the captain, S/Ldr Howard?

Or is the suggestion that it was pressure from his distinguished co-pilot that led Howard to continue an approach that he should have thrown away?