Sea Eagle still around?

[Jimlad]

there is a guy on another board I frequent who has posted claiming to be in the RAF - he reckons that sea eagle is still in storage and that the crews train for the Anti ship mission but w/out the missiles - anyone know if he's for real or a walter mittey?

[Jimlad]

Also these are examples of his posts:

"We keep a considerable amount of weapons in storage, far more than the public realises, even non-conventional types, Sea Eagle is no exception. If need be all the Sea Eagles could be ready for operations within 72hrs, although this would only be for a literal total war. You’ll have to draw your own conclusions from that I’m afraid. "


(regarding GR4b designations)

"Yes I know XXX, but I’ve yet to talk to anyone who doesn’t give the aircraft from 12 and 617 the “b” designation, informally though. Force of habit I guess. The aforementioned Squadrons are working very hard, against a disapproving Whitehall, to maintain at least a limited ASuW capability, but I agree there’s a very real danger that this capability will be lost altogether if the situation isn’t rectified soon. "

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Jimlad

"Another board I frequent......." and to think you called ME a spotter.

As for Sea Eagle, it is still to be found in the weapons section of the RAF website. In any case, the RAF has another anti shipping asset in the form of Harpoon armed Nimrods. As for fast jets, you should remember you can still take out ships by bombing.

[Jackonicko]

There may still be Sea Eagle rounds in storage - as far as I am aware we haven't flogged them off to India or Saudi Arabia just yet. But whether they're kept in any kind of operational condition is quite another matter. Ready to go in 72 hours sounds like horses' pootle to me.

The Sea King, Sea Harrier and Nimrod may retain compatability with the weapon, though without training (as much for those who'd service and load them as for the crews) their utility would be suspect.

There may even be a Tornado GR.Mk 1B or two still in service - though my impression is that they've mostly either gone or are being converted to GR.Mk 4. The GR.Mk 4 conversion specifically does not include Sea Eagle compatability, which was due to be added (or reinstated) fleet-wide in a later package. There was never goinmg to be a GR4B.

My understanding is that neither the GR1B nor the Sea Eagle remain at Lossie, and that any ASuW capability retained by No.s 12 and 617 would be with the Paveway II/III, and that No.12 has either just given up or is on the verge of giving up, its anti-ship role altogether, and that No.617 has already done so.

But I stand by to stand corrected.....

[Jimlad]

well i can seen ow why WEBF got booted out the RN. Strange as it may seem, I do surf the net and there are other boards I look at - one is military related as it has good gosip, the rest are my business.
But as usual WEBF you have jumped in, taken a comment to heart and posted an aggressive posting against someone. You are cocky, you refuse to listen to any advice and then when your betters - and by that I mean any person who has the ability to pass basic training - offer constructive criticism, you type emails back in a little sulk. Personally I'm glad you were thrown out, if you were in my division I'd be looking for every excuse to get rid of you too. You are an overeducated, know it all with zero character, leadership or any other ability and now you are sulking when people tell you what should have been told to you ten years ago.

[Biggus]

WEBF
I am not that familar with the maritime world, but even I can see lots of holes in your reply. Just read your Tom Clancy, or any modern techno-thriller. To take out a decent warship with ASMs you need to SATURATE ITS DEFENCES! A four or eight ship of sea eagle armed tonkas could put a lot more missles on target than a Nimrod, or are you suggesting waves of 4-8 Nimrods! As for using bombs, things have moved on a lot since the Falklands War, most modern warships have decent air defence systems that could down attacking aircraft well before they got into bomb range, as I am sure lots of RN chaps will agree! All the above knowledge acquired through the likes of Tom Clancy (bless him), Flight International and Janes Defence Leakly - er I mean weekly.

It ain't rocket science!

P.S There was a channel 4 documentary recently which showed that if Sea Wolf had been more robust in the Falklands war the Argentines would have lost more A-4s and the RN at least one less ship!

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Very true Biggus.

However, the MOD decided that it was likely that in future all surface targets could be taken out using ship (including submarine) based weapons, eg Harpoon, Sub Harpoon, Spearfish, or by Sea Skua missiles from Lynx helicopters.

You are 100% right about Sea Wolf. However, only two ships in the task force had it.

Jimlad

Sorry if I have offended you with what I thought was light hearted banter. I am not surprised you use different forums, you are involved in defence. But your comments are, a bit harsh.

I am not cocky, in fact quite the opposite. I probably would have been seen as introverted. This is a discussion forum, so I discuss things. I do listen to advice, but not all the comments I have received have been helpful.

As for your other points....

Over educated: Well, that could be a fair comment. Remember I was orginally trying to be a WE Officer, thats why I've got the qualifications I have.
No character: Untrue, although partly true.
No leadership: Again, thats largely (but not 100%) true.
No other abilities: Thats unfair. My abilities mostly relate to engineering, which is what the job was.

[solotk]

Ok, specs on Harpoon (Block II)
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/missiles/harpoon/harpoonspec.htm

Range :In excess of 67 NM (manufacturer's doublespeak lets say 68)

Attack profile: None stated, but I imagine, stick back, pop-up, thar she blows.....

At which point of course every warning light in the cockpit goes off, as the attack aircraft is painted hard.

Nimrod Max speed (Balls Out, run away bravely) 575 MPH

http://www.raf.mod.uk/airpower/nimrodmr2.html

Attack speed for delivery of said missile :Not stated.

Now WEBF, any fool can tell you, that lumbering along, in an airliner sized aircraft, looking to get aggressive is almost certainly going to be a short life and an exciting one. 67 NM is hardly outside a fleet defensive envelope now, is it?

Not withstanding the fact, the other team has their CAP and nice missiles too, whose first priority is the biggest thing on their radars, i.e. you.

As for taking out ships by bombing?

Can I pass on that one? I suggest you go visit any sites that feature "Fleet Air Defence" just to see the array of very very capable , very accurate and life threatening kit, that even banana barges in 3rd world republics have mounted.

I think a UAV capable of carrying anti-ship missiles on the other hand........

and most importantly, why the hell are u typing on this, and not in your track suit?

[Jimlad]

No WE the job is not mostly about Weapons engineering it is about leading and managing your PEOPLE.
An officers role is to be able to lead, to manage,to care, and to encourage his men to give their all. I will go out on a limb and say the day to day engineering should be done by the senior rates, who are superb at their jobs and normally run most of the departments anyway.

Being an officer isn't about being in the wardroom, having a pretty uniform or getting a comfy cabin. Its about working long hours as a team, its about getting up at 3am and working till 2am with less than an hours break - done that!, its about knowing your men, their hopes / dreams / gripes and aspirations and making sure they get themselves sorted. If that means making sure they all eat / sleep before you do then so be it. An officer must give 110% at all times, be they regular or reservist. Above all else they must realise how priveleged they are to lead probably the best bunch of lads on the planet, I count myself as very fortunate to have been able to work alongside some incredible JR's / SR's and earn their respect. Sure the jobs important, but I believe that first and foremost you are there to lead.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Jimlad

Again you are 100% correct.

But......I was not entering as an Officer, as I failed the AIB. I was joining as an ARTIFICER........so the techinal aspects ARE indeed the main thing.

And Solotk....I don't wear a track suit.

[Jimlad]

wrong again!

Tiffs tend to get promoted - fast. if you had made it you would in all likelihood have been fast tracked to killick and the PO / CPO in a short space of time.

Even at killick level you would need to draw on leadership skills to work as killick of the messdeck, or as a PO you are often in charge of groups of people and even more so you need to set a much higher example. In a few years time you could be a CPO and trying to expose the fear of god into new recruits - yet by your own admission you lack motivation - getting fit is all about motivation, you lack leadership skills, you also and most importantly fail to realise that you are not signing up for a job, but a lifestyle. You are a sailor first and foremost. you live work and fight alongside other people, yet you still persist in thinking that this is a 9-5 technical job. Wrong, being in the navy and carrying responsiblity is about leadership.

I'm having fun thinking what I'd have put in your RORRS record 3 here - anyone got any ideas ? :)

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Jimlad

I know all about the different facets of what an Artificer has to do.....thankyou.

I've NEVER thought being a matelot was a 9-5 job. My leadership skills are lacking, but then I've never been involved in anything that could have developed them. As for motivation, I will simply say that my motivation did suffer a blip during week two - this was due to a personal problem.

Before you condemn me entirely, I will repeat that I still await the letter/report from Cdr(T).

[knobjockey]

WEBF, you are a tw@t! Why do you persist in :

a) posting illinformed comments which merely look foolish to people who know a lot more of you - 99% of the uk population!

b) pi$$ing off EVERYBODY who bothered to offer you constructive advice by arguing and dismissing it as if they don't know what they're talking about? When actually they are far more educated in the ways of the military than you! (excellent post solotk - in other thread).

c) continue to post on the MILITARY AIRCREW forum - of which you are neither - and a damned good thing too! Why not go and talk with other illinformed spotters about crap you know nothing about, somewhere else on the net - anywhere else!

So in summary my advice to you is to forget about a career in the military and go and earn **** loads in the city - then you can talk crap about stocks and shares all the time with like-minded people.

One final thought for you - It would not be hard for someone to find out who got axed in week 2 about a month ago, speak to their mates and find out the real reason for it - then post it on here!

You my friend are hated more than Admin Guru!

[AllTrimDoubt]

WEBF

I can't believe you are now thrusting your anorak personality on this forum as well. I refer you to the general feeling expressed by all (and particularly so by Solotk) in your "stitched up " forum.

You are indeed a complete nob and, as has been pointed out, are neither military nor aircrew.

It is no surprise your military career lasted only 2 weeks. You were the weakest link....Goodbye

:mad: :mad: :mad:

(PS I think I might just do a bit of research into recent training failures!)

[STANDTO]

Blimey, we're not demonstrating much leadership, development and motivation here are we folks! Regardless of what our personal feelings about WEBF posts, we haven't met him, and some of these posts have gone too far.

I am involved in recruitment and training, and have indeed met some true knobs in the past. However, I have seen the potential, haven't given up on them and the light has eventually come on. They have gone on to do well in their profession.

Perhaps a little more cognisance of the fact that this is a public forum, and that such abrasive posts don't do the service image many favours?

[AllTrimDoubt]

Standto -

I think if you read some of this idiot's previous posts on other threads and his response to those who have offered constructive advice then you too would be fed up with his input. There comes a time where enough is enough.

Sometimes we persist far too long with some individuals in the hope that " the light will come on". In my own experience there is nothing more satisfying than seeing a student who has struggled make the grade. But we do not have infinite resources of tiime or £££ and some cases earmark themselves for an early chop. QED.

And although this is a public forum, it does come under the heading of Military Aircrew. Diverse input is good, uninformed self-pitying whingeing is not.

AllTrimDoubt out.

[Jackonicko]

WEBF may be young and over enthusiastic, and he may even be irritating, opinionated and totally unable to hear or heed what other people are saying (whether about what might have made him fail his course or in response to his emotive and blinkered views on the SHar). He is certainly immature.

But he's young and passionate and disappointed, and perhaps we should cut him a little slack. Some posts about him seem disproportionately venomous and cruel, and as Standto infers, do not demonstrate much empathy, sympathy or humanity. This is a public forum, and the public do sympathise with fat, unfit losers (look at the fat lad on 'Popstars')......

I use the term loser in its literal sense, and not in a derogatory manner, I hasten to add, and when I say fat I mean 'lardically challenged'.......

[Chris Kebab]

....and all this from a thread asking if we still store Sea Eagle!

[Jimlad]

I'm beginning to wish I hadn't asked - all I wanted to know was
a) do we store it + b) was the guy I referred to a wannabe or a real crab?