Brave pilot/s in LWV

[Jabawocky]

Just look at these two screen shots and for those who are in Brisbane, ask yourself would you be threading a low level needle around this stuff? And through bits at times with notable altitude excursions. :uhoh:

Had I taken screen shots earlier, it would have looked worse than this.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-29%20at%202.52.21%20PM_zpsxnbca1x4.png

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-29%20at%202.52.58%20PM_zpsmyubizvi.png

It must have been an impressive show from their seats. :}

[Led Zep]

KVFR...... :}

[Jabawocky]

pics here….

Lightning, hail and damaging wind hit Brisbane as severe storm lashes south-east Queensland, causing power cuts - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-29/lightning-and-hail-hit-brisbane-as-severe-storm-hits-queensland/6813502)

:eek:

[Ovation]

Ugly looking weather - hope LWV still has some paint left.

Direct track = 67 Statute Miles

Flown = 206 Statute Miles

[Squawk7700]

All good, it's a Cirrus and they have a parachute.

[Capt Fathom]

What's the issue? They probably flew the whole flight in VMC!

[Jabawocky]

Fathom, that is possible but the earlier overlays suggests not, and it was much closer than I would care to get. I am a chicken.

Those screen shots were the better ones, if you replay (imagine) it back in your mind or saw what it was like earlier…. :eek:

I bet it was a fun ride, and nobody else was anywhere out there, big or small.

[manymak]

A thread dedicated about an aircraft which diverted enroute around some wx? :{

You make me laugh Jaba.

[drunk_pilot]

Pathetic. Here's an idea Jaba - mind your own business.

[Jabawocky]

Get a life……

Mind my own business…..

Geez some of you blokes need to harden up a little. And I thought I was soft. :ugh:

It was an IFR flight I would imagine based on the planned levels. Perhaps they wisely managed to stay in VMC so to avoid the worst of it. It would have been good view of a good bit of wx for sure.

At no time was I criticising or condemning them. Just saying they are brave and they must have had an impressive view of it all. And asking the hypothetical question would you be out there in that? You blokes really need to read what was written and stop imagining stuff that wasn't.

I have diverted a long way around wx on many occasions, I will admit I would have given it a far bigger margin in a 145 knot machine, but I am a bit more conservative than some. The earlier radar images did not have the same margins as seen here.

As for close the macbook lid….sorry, do you turn your turbines off in flight? (Primary work tools etc) :ugh: It is on all day mate, thanks for asking. And when I see some really ugly weather I will continue to click the BOM, and when folk I know are flying I will check on them, and probably be surprised when I see an SR20 in the middle of that muck again too. Hope you have a nice day :ok:


More impressive pics Blackouts, traffic delays after storm (http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/brisbane-weather-thunderstorm-warning-for-southeast-queensland/story-fnpjxt8n-1227549331995)

[Squawk7700]

How dare you be concerned for the welfare of a fellow pilot Jabba, shame on you !

Of course nobody has ever crashed in bad weather before, or ended up VFR into IMC either...

[Stationair8]

Jabowocky you had better get him signed up on one of those smick engine courses that you promote!

[UnaMas]

I am with the others, Jaba, you're a goose :ok::ok::ugh::\:mad::*:ok::ugh::suspect::ugh::suspect: := :yuk: :yuk:

No but seriously, get a life, you are clearly a hero, surely you have more important things to be doing.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Wx radar images displayed on the web can be 10-20 minutes out of date, I am told by the BoM. At the speed a line like that travels, it is a brave man who tries to correlate images of two moving objects between two websites.

Most of us fly-for-work types* have found safe ways to work around CBs. It looks to me like these guys were probably in VMC and (intelligently) were behind the line.

The Radar picture + BoM warnings+Facebook hype+the way it looks from the ground can all add up to deceptive.

The picture in the air is quite often very different to the way you imagine it from the radar image. You of all people Jaba would know that! :8




*fly-for-work and gotta go if possible, not to be confused with "having a choice to drive". I can tell my pax to drive but it doesn't put food on the table. If I can find a safe way to do the job without raising the risk of the operation, I will.

[sagan]

The line main was east of Archerfield when they landed. The stuff over Archerfield had also weakened into rain areas with a high base as well. Mischievous alarmist bunk to start this thread.

[missy]

Pity you didn't include a few screen shots from the BoM Automated Thunderstorm Alert Service (ATSAS). Stormy weather...

Investigation: 200100213 - Boeing Co 737-476, VH-TJX (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2001/aair/aair200100213.aspx)
On 18 January 2001, VH-TJX, a Boeing 737-476 aircraft, encountered microburst windshear at 0729 EST while conducting a go-around from runway 19 at Brisbane aerodrome during an intense thunderstorm.

Love the "...it’s as black as the ace of spades." quote


And the lessons learnt were...

[Jabawocky]

As sagan has pointed out, they were behind the main line of it when they landed. I do believe when I took that pair of screen shots they were in between the two lines and I agree most likely carefully maintaining a safe distance behind it.

This thread was not to start some form of ATSB enquiry….nor was it to bash the pilots. :=

But had ANY OF YOU seen the images from the BOM radar while they were off the top of the screen shot when they were turning around and running NE before going around the back of it, then you might see why I wondered if it were brave flying into it, which is what they were doing earlier. They made appropriate decisions after that.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/Storm%20avoidance_zpsmjr4plod.jpg

Leafie……you are correct, the images usually are delayed (6 minutes) and are time stamped, so there is not much you can't work out for yourself.

Also back to sagan's comment…..Mischievous alarmist bunk to start this thread.

Not one bit of mischief in mind, I did not post any kind of "what kind of fool would be flying in this weather" comments at all. I thought that the initial segment of the flight was a bit brave and the subsequent ride behind the storm front to have been a good view of what was an impressive line of storms.

If you feel alarmed that is your emotional reaction. Certainly not mine. Not every thread on prune has to be about muck raking and creating trouble.

Leafie makes a valid point though, *fly-for-work and gotta go if possible, not to be confused with "having a choice to drive". I can tell my pax to drive but it doesn't put food on the table. If I can find a safe way to do the job without raising the risk of the operation, I will.

This was not a C441 and most likely a PVT flight in an SR20. Myself, I would have waited for the front to go through, it did not take long. I too have flown wide tracks around storms, but YCDR to YBAF ….if I wanted to get away from potential hail I would go more north and then south rather than the westerly track into it and a smoother ride. This was never about what I would do Vs what they did….and that is not the point of this thread :ugh:

You guys seem to want to make more out of this than its worth. :rolleyes:

[Ultralights]

you guys do get some cracker storms up there.. The sydney storm shield gets real annoying sometimes.

[Ovation]

Interesting thread - I'm on your side Jaba.

If anything it's educational and will hopefully make some inexperienced pilots think a little longer about whether they have skills and experience to navigate in such conditions.

The track suggests (pure speculation of course) there was some indecision due W of Sunshine Coast because of the reversal, and then continuation on a NW heading. Tracking then continued S and SE skirting the WX and the run to Archerfield was behind the worst of it.

Not the sort of WX I'd like to be flying near but your detractors here are probably are so much more experienced than you and I and know everything there is about WX avoidance.

Maybe the pilot of LWV reads Pprune and could end the speculation.

[ACMS]

I try not to second guess or Monday morning quart back the guys. They looked at their Radar or used the mark one Eyeball on the day, we weren't there.

[wateroff]

Well it actually looks like they followed the clear air. We watched the last arrival run into Brisbane from the north, 738 - rock and roll on the Victor over Brekky Creek. Looked like fun from the ground, must have been fun on the back...
:yuk::yuk::yuk:. They were clear of cloud.......

[KRviator]

Get a life……

Mind my own business…..Im not normally one to wade in on things like this, but in this case I feel those comments are indeed warranted. Someone is doing something you say you yourself wouldnt have done, and by that implication, these pilots are "brave"? Classy.

The C in PIC means command, he made a command decision to fly, and fly the route he did, arriving safely. Was he instrument rated? I don't know, and neither do you. Was he able to maintain VMC the whole way? I don't know and, again, neither do you. Remember the BOM radars only detect rainfall or virga, not cloud.

If I were to do something you wouldn't have done, does that make me brave? Of course not. It simply means I have evaluated the risks of taking that action and found them acceptable, whereas you haven't. But does the rest of the Australian pilot population now have to worry about this Monday-morning-quarterbacking on Prune every time someone does something you wouldn't have?

Just because something is legal does not make it safe, but by the same token, just because something looks unsafe does not mean it actually is, particularly when you aren't there...

[Squawk7700]

Did anyone notice that in the middle of the day there was ONE light aircraft flying in the entire greater Brisbane area? Maybe he was brave considering he was the only aircraft flying in that weather ! Jabba's brave comments are warranted.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

OK, put the knives away! :E

I don't think Jaba's intention was to "point the bone" at the PIC. Perhaps "brave" was not the best word to use - I prefer "interesting"!

I've been told that I am crazy for flying some serious IFR in a single - but its all about risk management.

I cut my teeth mixing it with SE Qld's CBs - all the way back to my 2nd PPL solo nav (in a C150!). If you haven't been there, let me tell you, "They can be very scary"! The biggest, meanest thunder bumpers I have seen - outside of Kansas.

Would be interesting to hear from the PIC what the actual senario was. It looks like an interesting flightpath from Sunshine Coast to Archerfield. Probably not one that I would have considered, but if the thinking was, "Lets go west and see if we can get around behind this thing and pick our way to AF. We can land at one of the many aerodromes out there and wait it out, if it looks too bad". Then OK - I can go along with that. Looking at the plot, they had lots of "outs" providing that they had plenty of fuel and didn't push their luck too far. A bit of money spent on fuel, but no big deal.

I assume they were VFR, or at least visual, cause there is no way I would tangle with that in IMC in a lighty, even with radar and a stormscope.

I have run into SE Qld's "Wall of CBs" on a number of occasions when flying from Nth Qld to Toowoomba or Brisbane. If I saw that picture on the iPad I would most likely be heading for the nearest available aerodrome with rental cars.

Anyone who has been flying for a while has most probably pushed their luck with CBs. I know I have: eg taken off just in front of an approaching storm or picked my way between BIG vertical buildups IFR in a 172. Got away with it and afterwards thought, "I probably shouldn't have done that"!

Many years ago I was in a new, probably the best equipped Bonanza in Oz, with a highly experienced PIC, trying to fly from Boulia to Cloncurry. We ran into a line of storms associated with a cold front going through. Numerous attempts to find a way through were thawted by lightening strikes ahead of us so we diverted to Mt Isa to wait it out. A visit to the Flight Service Unit (remember those?) to kill some time revealed that there were 5 x other aeroplanes out there and we were the only one to turn away! Were the other pilots just more brave than us?

Looking at that radar plot and finding out it was a lighty has you asking questions. There is a learning experience here, particularly for those just starting out.

All good in this case! :ok:.....but what if the outcome had been otherwise? We would be having a totally different conversation!

As others have said, we weren't there. Don't know what the backup plan was. Didn't see the view from the cockpit.

Most likely a complete non-event.......but an interesting case study none-the-less! :)

Dr :8

[Trent 972]

Jaba's posted pic of the FlightAware track indicates that it was an IFR flight. (Might be wrong but I think only IFR flights makes it onto FA).
Therefore this thread is basically about an IFR flight diverting around TS.
There was a lot of that going on at the time. Good job, well done.

[Squawk7700]

Jaba's posted pic of the FlightAware track indicates that it was an IFR flight.

I didn't notice that, but some of Jabba's internet browsing tabs have me concerned for those that mock him :\

Looks like Jabba is in the market for a Smith and Wesson 1911 A1 with some extra Chip McCormick 10 round 9mm magazines. :ok:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc75/radar.jpg

[megle2]

Assuming it was a training flight, I can't see much benefit going out with stacks of gas and just flying around the build ups

Wouldn't it of been a much better learning process to assume it was a charter with payload restrictions limiting fuel and going out with the fuel required only

That would of presented a far more challenging situation forcing real decisions

The flying school would still get some revenue and the student would of definitely learnt something

[skkm]

Jaba's posted pic of the FlightAware track indicates that it was an IFR flight. (Might be wrong but I think only IFR flights makes it onto FA).


Anything that's radar identified will display a track on FA, so VFR in C will show up for example. In this case the aircraft was well and truly in G airspace for much of the flight so it was almost certainly IFR.

[Squawk7700]

In this case the aircraft was well and truly in G airspace for much of the flight so it was almost certainly IFR.

Unless they had requested flight-following or whatever it's called these days and were given a code. If the weather was that bad, it's what I would have done when VFR.

[josephfeatherweight]

Assuming it was a training flight, I can't see much benefit going out with stacks of gas and just flying around the build ups

Wouldn't it of been a much better learning process to assume it was a charter with payload restrictions limiting fuel and going out with the fuel required only

That would of presented a far more challenging situation forcing real decisions

The flying school would still get some revenue and the student would of definitely learnt something

I have a different take on it. Exposure to some real weather is ALWAYS beneficial - deliberately increasing the risk artificially by limiting your fuel in weather like that, is not the way I'd do it! But, each to their own. All part of life's rich tapestry...

Joe Lighty
"Nobody's ever died from pressing..."

[megle2]

Joe, agreed
Maybe they started the exercise with full tanks under the proviso that only so much was available, once they had achieved their objective they came home the long way

In any case it wasn't the best day for flying