Chambery, France / LFLB

[Driver 170]

I know i post alot on this forum but i have no other legit sources to turn too, so i'm hoping again, if a Boeing 738 or CL pilot knows how to configure for the Circle to land Rwy36.

I found this which is great -

Chambery, France CMF/LFLB | Pilots Briefing Room (http://pilotsbriefingroom.com/2012/11/29/chambery-france-cmflflb/)

But looking on how to configure my plane for the circling manoeuvre?

Also got this great scenery to help for the visual part on when to turn etc -

Screenshots (http://www.aerosoft.de/_php_projekte/_php_screenshots/screenshots.php?sp=fsx&p=france-vfr-chambery)

Also for runway 18 which has a steep glide of 4.6* and thats obvious to me you need to be fully configured f30 / 40 before the glide because with a touch of a TW you are in trouble. So hoping to learn how far back will i start to configure by?

In no way i claim that doing all this i could actually do it for real, i'm only interested in the strict, complex approaches like LPMA which i learned from a few pilots from here.

Thanks

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

When circling you will generally fly down the approach to runway 18 with a tailwind. Due to the steepness of the glide slope you will need gear down and probably at least flap 25, if not 30.

[GARDENER]

Gear down flap 15 in the CL using VOR/LOC and VS to mirror the glide. Key is being configured before descent. Circling thereafter as per procedure, flap 25 downwind the f30 or f40 turning final ...beware of "ballooning" on selection of final flap as you don't want to screw it up now!

[Driver 170]

Ok thats great, i will put this all to test and see how things go!

[Station_Calling]

Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but it's 4.46 degrees on 18. Above 4.5 would make it a steep approach, so it just escapes that. Don't know about the B737, but the B757 you want to be gear down flap 30, i.e. fully configured, before top of drop.

And it's a circling manoeuvre with prescribed tracks so you need to be relatively precise with your timing / headings. Aim for the hospital, but turn inside it!

Hope this helps.

SC.

[Driver 170]

Good stuff will see how i get on. As for timings if am on downwind at 150kts for 2.2nm how can i work out the timing? 150 / 60 = 2.5nm a minute but struggling to workout 2.2

[Station_Calling]

The way we fly it: at 150kts you want 1:02 when you turn off the ILS at D2 from CY, and track 135 degrees, then you want 0:53 on track 176 before turning in. Timing starts at the start of each turn, and don't forget to compensate 1/2 second for each kt of tail wind.

[Chesty Morgan]

SC, do you circle fully configured?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

SC, do you circle fully configured?

Don't know about the B737, but the B757 you want to be gear down flap 30, i.e. fully configured, before top of drop.

It would appear so in the B757, as SC states.

In the Classic it really depends on conditions. With a strong tailwind you will need gear down and flap 25 or 30 to maintain the glide slope, if it's good weather and you therefore don't need to maintain the glide slope then you could manage with gear down and flap 15. We use flap 40 for landing, so in the worst case I will have descended with the glide slope at gear down and flap 30, and will then circle in that configuration before selecting flap 40 on the base turn.

[Chesty Morgan]

Interesting. I've been to Chambery in four different types and none of them required circling fully configured.

Goes against the grain of not flying level in landing configuration.

[Station_Calling]

As Johnny quite rightly points out...

B757 flown fully configured at flap 30 gear down from top of drop. Coming down a 4.46 degree slope with a 20t tailwind would be mighty difficult otherwise. V/S of -1,400fpm is not unusual.

It's a horribly inefficient approach and uses about 600kgs, but we have deemed it the safest / best way to fly it, and it works well. On a blue sky day, it is a joy to fly...

SC.

[Driver 170]

Even more great experience to the table guys thanks alot :) i've flown to Chambery once! Just as pax though lol


SC, how did you work out 0:53 for the 176 track?

Is there any operators on the NG that use IAN for the approach before circling?

[Driver 170]

For wind correction can you look at prog page 2 and half the TWC then subtract from the time for each turn?

[Driver 170]

ICAO DOC 8168 VOL I


8.4.6.3 Radius of turn. If necessary (because constraining obstacles have to be avoided), the indicated airspeed
may be reduced to not less than the maximum indicated airspeed for the final segment (see Tables I-4-1-1 and I-4-1-2) for the aircraft category. In such a case, the maximum indicated speed will be published on the chart.


It mentions MAX 150 from D2 CY does that mean i can't go below 150 per 8168

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

No, it's as you said - MAX 150kts, not MIN 150kts.

So you can go slower, but must not exceed 150kts due to the turn radius requirement in the valley.

With regard to you asking about the timing during the circling - the circling manoeuvre starts from 2 mile final with a left turn to track 135° covering a distance of 2.6 nmls, then a right turn to parallel the runway for 2.2 nmls. The timings can be calculated therefore dependent on your ground speed. At 150kts ground speed that equates to 53 secs, and for you to interpolate if you are doing 180kts (strong tailwind) it's 44 secs, and at 120kts 66secs.

[Driver 170]

Shouldn't that quote in ICAO DOC 8168 say not more than the maximum speed? It just sounds like its meaning not less than 150kts.