Airshow crash in USA

[Simplythebeast]

FAA investigating plane crash at Scott County air show (http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/scott-campbell-morgan/2015/09/12/plane-crash--wings-over--big-south-fork-air-and-car-show/72164642/)

[deptrai]

Hope to hear all is well. I immediately came to think that most civilian L-39 have cold ejection seats due to added complexity/cost of maintenance, no idea about this one though.

Aircraft involved must be NX139RT. L-39 in the US requires an AEA (similar to type rating) requiring minimum 1000h pic. Pilot has 10 years display experience, holds an atpl, and also pilots his company business jet, as well as a number of other aircraft.

Edit: The plane went down in a heavily wooded area that was difficult for emergency crews to access, authorities told CBS News

[peekay4]

Sadly the pilot reportedly killed:

http://www.wdrb.com/story/30017291/thunder-over-louisville-pilot-reportedly-killed-in-air-show

[deptrai]

Indeed sad to hear, heartfelt condolences to his family. A lot has been posted here about air shows recently, due to the random spike in accidents (no, I haven't crunched the numbers, but I assume it's a random fluke). On one hand, careful planning and aerobatic/display boxes usually protect innocent bystanders and spectators these days. On the other hand, I can't help thinking, what was that L-39 doing just above the ground ("Witnesses say they saw his plane take a dive to do a trick (sic) and never came back up", according to CBS. Despite the odd language, the scenario sounds familiar, unfortunately). It's an aircraft that excels at altitude, it's performance is much better there. If this was loss of control (I have no idea), there is 0 margin for recovery or manual egress just above the ground. Further, it's a military trainer, checklists call for finding a non-inhabited area for a crash, and eject. Not a good scenario but it has saved thousands of lives. I can't help thinking about some posts about Swiss hunters that don't fly concurrently because they share ejection seats. Sounds like a prudent approach to me. Air shows remain a high risk activity, I hope something can be learned from this accident too.

[9 lives]

Air shows remain a high risk activity,

Well some flying done at airshows can be higher risk.... But "normal" risk flying is possible instead if we dial back the expectation for excitement.

[Tourist]

Well some flying done at airshows can be higher risk.... But "normal" risk flying is possible instead if we dial back the expectation for excitement.

Yes, but then it isn't a show.

Nobody goes to a circus where the performers don't do something spectacular.

If it isn't exciting, then nobody goes.

[9 lives]

Yes, but then it isn't a show.

Nobody goes to a circus where the performers don't do something spectacular.

If it isn't exciting, then nobody goes.

I see your point, but I'm not rushing to agree...

Yesterday, while flying home from a weekend gathering, I stopped at a fly in. Zero aerobatics of dramatics. As I passed mid downwind, a B-25 Mitchell bomber crossed mid field, and went wide around me. As I crossed the fence, he called a low flypast, and went off my wingtip. I had parked in time to watch a fine landing, no excitement.

He, as well as a Cornell, and Tiger Moth were hopping rides, and everyone seemed very pleased. I did not witness any pitch or roll exceeding 30 degrees.

Airplanes were shown, and hundreds of people enjoyed....

[megan]

Exciting enough Tourist? ;)

https://video.fadl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xtl1/v/t42.1790-2/11965575_1627988610783729_616550567_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjQwNS wicmxhIjo1MTJ9&rl=405&vabr=225&oh=7b1c8d5269f9e42060ecba3d054d6556&oe=55F5BF7D

[RAT 5]

Mr. Tucker at a guess? I've seen this type thing and the UK CAA or EASA would go mental and have heart attack in spades.

[Tourist]

megan

Yes, that's what people, including me, want to see. Skip at his best.

Step turn

"Hundreds" of people don't pay enough money to keep things flying.
Hundreds of thousands of paying spectators are required to keep most of the interesting toys flying.

Yes a few old codgers might have their hearts warmed by the fly-in you describe, but the simple fact is that you have to compete with YouTube. The standard of "Wow" is very very high nowadays.

The US shows are in a different league.

[Simplythebeast]

I hope not but flying like that I won't be at all surprised to see him as the subject of one of these threads before long. Let's hope he doesn't take anyone with him.

[Tourist]

I hope not but flying like that I won't be at all surprised to see him as the subject of one of these threads before long. Let's hope he doesn't take anyone with him.

Maybe, but its great to watch, and he does it a lot.

Whilst the UK is getting all excited about safety, the rest of the world is moving on.
Extreme sports are popular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz5AcbaJzLo

Look at the crowds for this kind of thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOFsfMY7IPc

Or the Red Bull Air Race.

[Machinbird]

Look at the crowds for this kind of thing.Both of those videos are publicity stunts. Not that many people looking down from the bridges on the second video.

Not the kind of stuff that airshows are made out of.

If you try to provide that kind of "excitement" in a routine environment, something unpredictable will stop you.
A spectator throwing an object from a bridge.
A pedestrian leaking through a safety barrier and taking a short cut at the wrong time.
An untimely failure of some element of your aircraft at the most inopportune time.
A thermal that disturbs your flight path more than you anticipated.
Random variation in human performance.
A truck in the wrong place at the wrong instant.
A loose object in the cockpit.
Another aircraft interfering.
The possibilities of disruptive phenomena are virtually endless.

The object of an airshow performance should be to survive the experience,
every blooming time.

[Petercwelch]

Do not believe that was Sean Tucker although cannot for some reason get the clip to play again.

[deptrai]

The object of an airshow performance should be to survive the experience,
every blooming time.

Yes! And somebody will probably prove me wrong but I can't remember the red arrows, blue angels, frecce tricolori, etc etc ever flying under city bridges with lots of spectators right next. These "red bull" performances give me a headache.

Call me old fashioned, but I think this is a beautiful display, "simple" formation flying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnnwWqwnMWw&t=0m46s

and thanks to youtube and modern technology, people can watch it as if they were there...but I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Leave the ground hugging to those who need to do it for other reasons than entertainment.

[RAT 5]

Apologising for topic drift, but.... I lost the A320 at the top of the loop. I then saw it with gear down but the muggers were gear up and I didn't see a runway in sight. What was going on. That was the most amazing 'intercept' I ever saw. I guess he should have read the swiss NOTAMS better.

[Carbon Bootprint]

Do not believe that was Sean Tucker although cannot for some reason get the clip to play again. Correct, it was Skip Stewart, and the manoeuvre is his signature act, the low and slow "knife edge" performed in one of his two custom Pitts biplanes.

He has also done stuff like flying under a jumping motorcycle. Crazy? Probably. A crowd pleaser? Most likely.

All things considered, he's still young, started young, and seems to know what he's doing. There would also seem to be certain preparations and precautions in place to ensure the safety of the flight and onlookers.

EDIT -- This link to the clip in question appears to be working: https://www.facebook.com/teamladsbanter/videos/1627988550783735/

[Airbubba]

Aircraft involved must be NX139RT.

I'm aware of historic U.S. aircraft registrations like N-X-211 and NR77Y but I don't believe I've seen an NX registration on a recent aircraft.

Is this some sort of 'vanity' N-number?

[deptrai]

yes. FAR Part 45.22: "Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules."

[Airbubba]

§45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.

(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under §21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with §§45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:

(1) It displays in accordance with §45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the Roman capital letter “N” followed by:

(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or

(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft (“C”, standard; “R”, restricted; “L”, limited; or “X”, experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and

(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter “N” anywhere on the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph (b)(1) of this section.


Thanks deptrai! I don't hang out around general aviation much anymore and I've never run across that one before.

[Tourist]

He does appear to have a very high degree of control......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnuWuNyitzE

[deptrai]

"Anytime you fly an airplane close to the ground it is unforgiving. We will never keep aerobatic pilots from crashing." - Skip Stewart

[Tourist]

He is obviously both skilled and wise......

[deptrai]

If they can't be kept from crashing (I agree, that's a realistic assumption), maybe there's still some things that can be done, apart from keeping spectators safe:

Russian company Zvedza recently started offering 36lbs ejection seats, with a telescoping pole, pneumatic/compressed air. Minimum altitude 100 ft, has already been installed in Su 26 (I wouldn't want to be the one to test it at 100 ft though). Could be useful for the Skip Stewart types.

Specs via google translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.npp-zvezda.ru%2Fru%2Fnode%2F94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldmh9BPRIPM


Airbubba, re I've never run across that one before thinking of it, usually the Special Airworthiness Certificate will contain something like "This aircraft MUST display the word “EXPERIMENTAL” in accordance with 14 CFR part 45.23(b) or either registration number must be displayed per 14 CFR part 45.22 (i.e. NX)". Most prefer NX.

[vector4fun]

The other problem with those extreme low level stunts is, nobody behind the first two rows can see a damn thing, and the kids even less. :mad: