Mekong Airways or Air Cambodia?

[Le Pilot]

Mekong Airways are supposed to commence operations next month with A320s. Air Cambodia commence operations on the 1st of October.
From no large Jet operations to 2.... Somebody is going to have a short career in Pochentong.
The Cambodian Govt has made comments on both Airlines but who do they really support?
I here on the prune vine that Mekong have advised their A320 chaffeurs of their impending employment but has any training commenced or any salaries been paid?

[Le Pilot]

That's supposed to be "I hear on the prune vine" ........sounds like I'm swinging through the trees.
Is Mekong going to use the AN A320s that had become monuments at KSA or spend the extra cash for some newer birds?
Because nobody is talking...there is going to be a financial bloodbath.

[FO Cokebottle]

The only company to survive the "bloodbath" is Kampuchea Airlines...........go figure.

[Le Pilot]

Because their Russian Pilots work for US$500 a month and they fly the AN124's.
Like a flock of birds....Cheap, Cheap, Cheap.

Mekong want to throw a bunch of ATR42/72's as a feeder but AC want to send in only 737's allowing others to try and make cash on the feeder.
If somebody has been offered a position with Mekong tell us what the deal is.... Communicating with all the ex RAC chaps: Lots of talk in Phnom Penh but no concrete facts.
My email: [email protected]
Maybe better posting this on the D&G site.
:confused:

[MT Edelstone56]

Le Pilot,

Why all the interest?Wont Hainan Airlines destroy the deal?

Hainan Airlines 4xA320s exAnsett crews,most,including F/Os all of a check or training background.

[Le Pilot]

How could Hainan Airlines destroy the deal?

How's a bunch of Check and Trainers of Aussie background only going to change the profitability of the Mekong operation-
No disrespect to our experienced brothers from the AN fraternity.

Hainan will be employing mainly foreigners for the AC operation (& if it gets you excited..They all have Check & Training backgrounds in Australia, New Zealand or one of 2 JAA countries)

Air Cambodia has the Government of Cambodia as a major partner. CTG (Cambodian Tourist Group) as a minor partner and funds have been on show to Cambodian Govt ministers for 4 months.
For what I've heard (Pprune..the rumour network) Mekong have approval from somebody working close to one of the political parties but nobody has shown them the money.
The only comment made by Hainan Airlines is that the market is only big enough for one Heavy Jet operation.
As of last week the only major obstacle for Hainan was approval from the Chinese development corporation. This has been granted.
The Commerce certificate from Cambodia and 60 days will be required to kick start AC.
The Cambodia office in Haikou is ready for their big move. The management team is made up of Deputy Managers from current Airlines within the Hai Hang group.
The leader of the evaluation group is J. Guo who was the Vice-president of Changan Airlines and has been working on the project for the past 6 months.

[MT Edelstone56]

Le Pilot,

I have placed no importance on the background of the exAN pilots,just bringing to light the latest rumours.Their background a little curious,thought you may have the answers,such as the training of locals.Or maybe the pertinence is in their association with former management.

Was wondering how Hainans ambitions maybe affected.You have answered,thanks.

[Kaptin M]

Maybe Le Pilot might like to tell us from where Hainan "found" their business model :mad: , and why he's so excited about the prospect of not just one, but two, airlines suddenly hitting the Cambodian scene.

Cambodia must have one of the highest turnover rates of airlines, of just about anywhere in the world.
In the end, it's not the pilots' salaries that bring about their downfall, it's the kickbacks to the locals, starting with (say) 20% to one or two, and ending up with an army of leeches after a short time.

The classic was the pilot who was offered a job IF he paid 30% of his salary to the guy responsible for hiring!

Not unlike the Civil Aviation Authority employee who sold someone else's business model to Hainan, is it L.P.!

[Le Pilot]

Big M

Well we all did a stint on 9M-MMC for the old RAC but I didn't get an opportunity to see the locals or the Ayatollahs with their hands in the till....

I did three consignments there but I'm sure you would be better versed than I on Local practice having somebody next door who actually lived there for long periods and married one the RAC crew living in the Land of the Rising Yen.

I am not familiar with Hainan's business practice but the "borrowing" of other's ideas in Aviation is common.

If Mekong are hearing the same story from the transport minister of Cambodia that we are then I would say that one of the Airline aspirants should save themselves the trouble.

Whatever happens, Cambodia must be given an opportunity to have their own flag carrier that not only is free of corruption but kick starts their fledgling economy.

[Kaptin M]

Even if you managed the 3-day stint with Air Cambodge, LP, you didn't have to scratch the surface of RAC too deeply to realise that "Whatever happens, Cambodia must be given an opportunity to have their own flag carrier that not only is free of corruption...." is a pipe dream - something ENTIRELY impossible in that country. You weren't aware of the wine bottles that were refilled? Or the ones that were taken off the aircraft, sold back to the supplier, and the RE-sold to RAC!! That the airport "security" would turn a blind eye as their payment? Things going on, on YOUR aircraft (as Captain)!

The corruption ran through EVERY level of that airline, and extended to the catering suppliers, and Customs and Immigration.
Anyone who was able had his/her finger in the till. Mind you, they (RAC) had good teachers!! Do you know how many MAS "managers" were being supported by them??!!
BTW, I don't quite understand how my neighbour figures in this, when all ANYONE (including yourself) who went there had to do, was to be "situationally aware".

If any airline believes that they are going to be able to operate WITHOUT being party to these "handouts", their short term expectancy is assured - as a matter of FACT, they won't get airborne UNTIL the "right people" have been paid out. From then on, the numbers grow, until they finally kill the goose that lays the eggs.
It would be unfair in the extreme if any potential start-ups weren't made aware that their tenure will not be a long one, and that "handouts" will increase as airline revenue increases - until they finally overtake gross income!

But that doesn't worry the recipients, because they KNOW there'll be other suckers who'll start up, and will pay the Piper.

It's a way of life, in that part of the world.

[Le Pilot]

M
For the period up to 2000 you are right but I found a rapidly improving country last December...So l hope that things will improve:

From D&G...:
Correction to that shooting incident mentioned by the M: It was a RAC 734... I was having "makan" with the local capt afterwards - He was sitting on the "throne" in the front of the A/C when he felt the movement of the aircraft with the rapid deflation of the nosewheels.
The bloke with the gun was already angry with RAC because firstly it was tied up with "Funcinpec"-Royalist party and this agressive Chap was the right hand man to Hun Sen. Secondly they lost his bags on the HKG-PNH sector & he took it personally.
The month before he was left at the Aerobridge in BKK because he felt that the Airline would wait for him. He was making a sign of shooting himself in the head and pointing at the Captain whilst they were being pushed back.
Capt L...sorry no names pushed back on time as per MAS policy...max 2 minutes after ETD.
When Newsweek interviewed him about this incident and the aspirations of his leader, he replied that he has no remorse and that he would have shot the main wheels out as well if he was not required in town pronto.
The robbery incident that I am familiar with was when Capt Goh...Sorry no names... was travelling on their equivalent to a rickshaw with the MAS Engineer in Daylight in PP.
The robber rode up beside them on a "Chook chaser" and stuck the pistol in his lower ribs... Money was spilt, thankfully no blood.
This was the wild west.
Last month the Govt evicted 25000 Vietnamese comfort Ladies and have mentioned that crime is at an all time low.
Having spent 2 weeks in PP last Dec I did feel that the place was a lot safer but when you've had such a violent past it does take a bit of time for people to return to some resemblance of a normal lifestyle.

[Kaptin M]

Thanks for the clarification, Le P. I understand from sources close to Cambodia, there has been a superficial polishing up eg. the deportation of the Viet Namese ladies, and the abolition of brothels - just as they have the annual steam-rollering of pirated computer software, and copy watches, etc in Bangkok - but under the gloss-over, NOTHING has changed.
The bordellos have re-opened as "restaurants", and I imagine the police and government officials responsible for regulating the sex trade have upped their ante by a few dollars per girl per week!

Corruption is an integral part of most Asian countries - it IS an accepted way of doing business - and to believe that it has suddenly been wiped out, is nonsensical. My neighbour, whom you mentioned before, met a well educated Khmer who had built up a successful business in the United States, of gem polishing. As you may be aware, Cambodia (and neighbouring Thailand) are relatively well endowed with rubies, sapphires, emeralds and some diamonds - the local markets sell them for very reasonable prices - however the cutting is done to save as much of the gemstone as possible, rather than the best cut that will display the stone at its optimum.
This Khmer decided that he would set up a factory in Cambodia, employing Khmers, and in the process teach them how to cut and polish the stones to a more refined level, thereby raising the level of his country's workmanship.
He took this proposal to the Government minister responsible, and was presented with the usual fees for establishment, licencing, etc etc, to which he agreed. The minister then told him he would have to pay HIM (the minister) an EXTRA USD70K to have the proposal go ahead. The $70K was to go straight into the minister's pocket!
Heartbroken he decided to return to the US, his words were something like "I really thought that I would be able to help my OWN country, but they have made it impossible for me."

The acid in the faces is STILL a regular occurrence - as recently as 2 weeks ago, I read that it happened yet again.
Similarly, I also read that the Government was pleased to see the usage of condoms when using prostitutes had increased, from around 12% to 30%. And whom did they survey for these results? The local police, who used the services of these ladies.

BTW, the armed hold-up of the crew BUS involving a Chinese MAS Captain and his Khmer F/O was a different event to the moto-taxi one you recounted, Le P.

Forewarned is forearmed!

[Le Pilot]

The M

Your summary of the Cambodian playing field appears quite accurate.

The Cambodians need a national Airline and it's in their interest to make it work but this could all be just words at the end of the day.

Some of the Hainan senior managers have been commenting on our discussion:
A major part of their comments were looking for more ways to ensure the financial dam doesn't spring too many leaks.

PPrune may be a rumour network but it does allow honest debate to oil the minds of even the big players in our industry.

Anyway, the next couple of months are going to be very interesting..... Stay tuned!:cool:

[Djoni Boerhanoeddin]

le P hi, apa chabar I am waiting for the next step

[Le Pilot]

Folks, can we keep this English-language only, please. Feel free to re-post this message, albeit in English. Edit this text out when you do as well...

See my "sticky" for reasons....

Sick Squid

[Djoni Boerhanoeddin]

sorry for the language, it is only a polite way to say hello to a friend, let's back to our english language