Interesting article on aerial fire-fighting inc. video of DC-10 doing drop

[rotornut]

BBC - Future - The jaw-dropping missions of fire-fighting pilots (http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150821-the-jaw-dropping-missions-of-fire-fighting-pilots)

[Basil]

Watched something like the CL 415 (well, it was yellow anyway ;)) operating off a lake near Marbella a few years ago. Impressive.

[skyship007]

I wonder if the Rusky job has ejection seats fitted ??
Some US Neptunes did, although you need one hand on the lower handle if the main spar breaks at "Woop Woop" height, plus good tree climbing gear!

[Downwind Lander]

The Hercules + MAFFS2 system has had a lot of action in this field:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_Airborne_FireFighting_System

What is ridiculous is that the threat in the northern hemisphere happens six month out of phase with that in the southern hemisphere, and I don't reckon the gear is being moved around the globe accordingly.

When the spring/autumn comes, there should be a conference of forest fire fighting authorities to work out a system.

The Cinderella system, choppers + bambi baskets, (where did this cute name come from?) may well be more precise, and should be brought into this conference.

[short bus]

Here is another DC-10 firefighting article - it is mostly an assembly of videos.

Watching This DC-10 Fire Retardant Drop Run Will Make You Queasy (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/watching-this-dc-10-fire-retardant-drop-run-will-make-y-1634763423)

[Exnomad]

Have watched amphibians, (not sure of type) scooping up sea water to drop on forest fires in Croatia.
Seemed very effective

[ion_berkley]

Talking of MAFFS, some of the crew shot some amazing video whilst fighting the Rim Fire in California in 2013. Gives you a really feel for the scale of the fires that have been occurring in West Coast USA and Australia in recent years.
This is a nice film of them following the spotter in along the rim of the Tuolumne valley for a drop against a back ground wall of pyrocumulus clouds

c_eGiGG1B-Q

[olandese_volante]

amphibians, (not sure of type)
Almost certainly the CL415.

Extremely sturdy and very docile planes they are. They can manoeuver at 70-75kts without stalling.

A few of their piston-engined predecessors (the 215) used to be based at the airport I live within spitting distance of (PSR/LIBP) and I've had the opportunity to spend a quite enjoyable afternoon getting a tour of one of these as it was being overhauled.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Some stats on the US Forest Service fleet:

Summary of air tanker use, 2014 | Fire Aviation (http://fireaviation.com/2015/02/03/summary-of-air-tanker-use-2014/)

Projected federal air tanker fleet for the United States | Fire Aviation (http://fireaviation.com/2015/02/04/projected-federal-air-tanker-fleet-for-the-united-states/)

USFS has 34 large air tankers currently activated | Fire Aviation (http://fireaviation.com/2015/08/16/usfs-has-34-large-air-tankers-currently-activated/)

Individual states also have their own, e.g.:

http://www.fire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/fact_sheets/aviationOverview.pdf

http://www.fire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/AviationGuide_FINAL_webbooklet.pdf

Aviation Program | WA - DNR (http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Aviation)

[rotornut]

Conair has a large fleet. I imagine they are doing pretty well this year:
Fleet | Conair Aerial Firefighting (http://conair.ca/aircraft-fleet)

[FE Hoppy]

Had the pleasure of training the Aero-flite/connair Avro RJ guys over the last couple of years.
Top guys and a new job for the old RJ.

Test drop:
https://youtu.be/jpE2O13BiA0

[vapilot2004]

Photo from a friend of the family currently documenting and fighting the fires in Washington state, USA.

DC-10 pilot demonstrating impressive drop skills.
http://i57.tinypic.com/2v2fij5.jpg

[tdracer]

Although the fires are on the other side of the Cascade mountain range, air quality around here the last few days has been pretty bad, and this morning after I got up, I briefly went looking for the source of the "smoke" I was smelling, before realizing where it was likely coming from :rolleyes:.

A couple years ago I was in Colorado working on the old family home when they had big fires - one ~60 miles north outside Colorado Springs, the other ~45 miles west at the Royal Gorge. With the normal wind pattern being from the west or northwest, air quality was really bad...

One of the DC-10 tankers was being used against the Royal Gorge fire, operating out of the Pueblo Airport. The airport is ~5 miles due east of my house (when I was a teen, before they built up other houses around it, we could easily see the airport and watch the airport operations from our back windows). With the main runway pointed east/west, a westerly takeoff was almost directly at the Royal Gorge fire roughly 50 miles away. They weren't bothering to climb much after takeoff, going over the house at incredibly low altitudes (and really, really loud - and this was compared to my teen years of watching and listening to countless 727s go overhead when United did pilot training there). At one point, the guy that was doing tile work for me was out back cutting some tiles when the DC-10 taking off passed overhead. He came inside and pronounced he could tell me exactly how many rivets there were in the bottom of a DC-10 wing as he'd just counted them :E.

I don't know how much those air-tanker pilots get paid, but they certainly earn it.:ok:

[vapilot2004]

Although the fires are on the other side of the Cascade mountain range, air quality around here the last few days has been pretty bad, and this morning after I got up, I briefly went looking for the source of the "smoke" I was smelling, before realizing where it was likely coming from

After a controlled burn, and during a fire in Big Sur to our south, the sunsets were quite spectacular. Have you noticed any of this sort, TD?

I don't know how much those air-tanker pilots get paid, but they certainly earn it.


Amen to that. Those gents, and the fire jumpers!

[slf.au]

As it happens the first C130 water bomber arrived in Australia this week, to be followed by bae 146 and i believe DC 10 bombers later.

There are teams from Australia and N.Z. helping out in North America now and they send crews south in our summer.

[Downwind Lander]

slf.au says:
"As it happens the first C130 water bomber arrived in Australia this week, to be followed by bae 146 and i believe DC 10 bombers later".

All the gear in he northern hemisphere should be on move down south. Spain, France has forest fire fighting stuff. The UK as well. In fact, this would be a good time for an International meeting to discuss optimising the positioning of this type of gear. (Also, for that matter, snow ploughs. In the UK, we get fed up with roads closing in response to a few inches of snow. A "Ploughs for Maffs" exchange? - and swap back in the spring).

[A Squared]

As it happens the first C130 water bomber arrived in Australia this week,

Technically, that's an L382, not a C-130. ;)

[plhought]

What is ridiculous is that the threat in the northern hemisphere happens six month out of phase with that in the southern hemisphere, and I don't reckon the gear is being moved around the globe accordingly.

http://skiesmag.com/digital_issue/2015/csv5i2/files/1.html

Canada (I mean..cough...Canadian Companies) regularly sends equip. down to Oz, in addition to a good batch of the firefighters themselves. It all depends on the equip though - It's not really practical to try and ferry BC's/Conair's Air Tractors all the way down! By the time they got there the season would be over! In the past there's been Canadian Electras and such down there as well.
The 215/415 is a beauty firefighting aircraft but the Provinces (those who own/operate their own equipment and don't contract) here tend to keep a really tight grip on 'em. Like most expensive things purchased with public moolah - they are treated so accordingly.

There is significant exchange regarding personnel. My outfit has done quite a few forestry/firefighting charters as well with Australian firefighters this season up here in Canader.

There is cooperation. It's not always visible. It certainly is audible though when a host of 'Sheilas' and 'Bruces' show up in your small northern town!

[Downwind Lander]

A Squared says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by slf.au http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/566507-interesting-article-aerial-fire-fighting-inc-video-dc-10-doing-drop.html#post9106284)
As it happens the first C130 water bomber arrived in Australia this week,

Technically, that's an L382, not a C-130. ;)

Maybe. But I am pretty sure that certain marks of C-130 can be fitted with the MAFFS or MAFFS2 kit and then become water bombers. (The water comes out of the paratroops' jump doors). I don't know the cost of this add-on, but it must make pressing some Hercules into water bombing as needed relatively cheap.

[A Squared]

Maybe. But I am pretty sure that certain marks of C-130 can be fitted with the MAFFS or MAFFS2 kit and then become water bombers. (The water comes out of the paratroops' jump doors). I don't know the cost of this add-on, but it must make pressing some Hercules into water bombing as needed relatively cheap.

That's also not a MAFFS or MAFFS 2 system. It's a completely different tank and drop system developed by Coulson. It can be installed in C-130's, and in fact has been installed in a C-130, but it requires fairly extensive airframe modifications.

The MAFFS can be installed in any Herc without extensive modification.

[Downwind Lander]

That's also not a MAFFS or MAFFS 2 system. It's a completely different tank and drop system developed by Coulson. It can be installed in C-130's, and in fact has been installed in a C-130, but it requires fairly extensive airframe modifications.

The MAFFS can be installed in any Herc without extensive modification.I am pretty confident that I am right. It takes type H or J - maybe E. I did some work when the French Air Force sat on their hands as Notre-Dame burned. They have some Canadairs (now Bombardier, I think) and Hercs but no MAFFS or MAFFS2 systems. What a mess. They reckoned on Twitter that, if used, the water would knock the walls down. The tragic truth seems to be that they bought the wrong gear for that type of fire since the MAFFS, pumping water out backwards at 140kts, causes the water to descend vertically, like very heavy rain.

The Coulson product is called RADS and, along with the Canadair doesn't have that feature. The water will have a forward velocity of some sort when it arrives at ground level. This won't matter much for forest fires but is an issue for urban ones.

In due course, there are going to be some harsh words spoken in Paris.

[Euclideanplane]

However, the use of RADS in urban environment is not obviously encouraged either, judging from unitedaero.com/firefighting/rads-systems/ where it only states "The RADS II provides reliable, versatile, effective and economical fire fighting capabilities. In grasslands, heavy timber or chaparral".

[A Squared]

I am pretty confident that I am right.

It is difficult to say what you are confident you are right about, exactly. But my comment was that the system installed in the specific Hercules referenced in slf.au's post is not a MAFFS. I have direct personal knowledge of that airplane and that system. If you mean that you think that system installed in that airplane is a MAFFS, you are in fact, *not* right. If you're declaring that you are "right" about something else, I'm not sure what you are referring to or why you're making that declaration in response to my comment (3+ years later).