Passenger Tasered on Easyjet plane

[Alanwsg]

From the BBC ...

Passenger Tasered on Easyjet plane at Gatwick - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-34003547)

[Sober Lark]

Which airline tasers the most passengers? Easy?

[supermarine]

Excellent, they could do with tasering most of the drunken stag parties on the Bristol Malaga flights as well.

[John R81]

He did rather well; you don't get much for free on an Easyjet flight

[stiglet]

So if passengers are permitted to claim compensation if the flight runs late will easyjet be able to pass this compensation claim onto the disruptive passenger if he is found guilty?

[HeartyMeatballs]

I would hope that this kind of incident would never be judged as anything but 'extraordinary circumstances' and that no compensation would be payable under EU261. If compensation is claimable then it has terrifying consequences for inflight safety for all flights that come under EU261 in future as airlines will simply take the problem into the air or may feel pressured into continuing despite a potentially unsafe situation in the cabin.

We don't know the circumstances that lead upto this individual acting in such a way. But regardless, the decision to remove him was the right one. How that is achieved (persuasion, force or taser) is for the police to decide, and certainly not the airline nor the crew.

[DirtyProp]

Would such claim have any ground in this instance?
I think not since it wasn't the carrier's fault, but I am no lawyer.
Where's Flying Lawyer?

[msbbarratt]

It's a wonder he managed to get as far as sitting in the plane with too much luggage. Why leave it until a passenger is on board to check? If hardly any checks are done beforehand, what are the carry on rules for?

Presumably EasyJet aren't saying that only women can take a purse/handbag and another bag. That would surely be gender based discrimination, illegal in this day and age.

[sitigeltfel]

From easyJets site....
What is my cabin baggage allowance?

All passengers

ONE cabin bag
Maximum size of 56 x 45 x 25cm including handles and wheels.




easyJet Plus, FLEXI fare, Upfront and Extra Legroom customers

One cabin bag as above
Plus ONE additional small under seat bag (For example a handbag or laptop)
Maximum size of 45 x 36 x 20cm which will need to be placed under the seat in front.

[Jetstream67]

Thought I was going to read about an in-flight tasering . . Eyebrows now returned to normal position . . .

[Laarbruch72]

Stiglet:

So if passengers are permitted to claim compensation if the flight runs late will easyjet be able to pass this compensation claim onto the disruptive passenger if he is found guilty?

If compensation was payable (which I'd doubt) then the airline could theoretically "pass on the bill" (I.e. go for a private prosecution to recover the costs), but in practice they'll likely never recover that money even if the case is successful.

You see quite a few cries of "send him the bill!" on PPruNe, usually following a diversion, but it's never quite as simple as that. You can only realistically recover costs if the offender actually has the money or assets to pay you.
We once prosecuted a passenger following a diversion to offload, I think the diversion cost us circa 25k and the offender pays us back around 40 quid a month. You still do it of course because it sends the right message, but don't think that airlines routinely get proper restitution.

[Stanwell]

Where are some people at, these days?
In my working life, I've had to deal with a number of 'difficult' people.
Seems that the Taser is the answer to any problem, now.

[Chronus]

It be a sight better to have the US type of electric chair fitted. Lot more civilised I would have thought. Just select required voltage, press button for seat number#, bingo peace and calm is restored without any fuss and hysteria whatsoever.
I`ll patent it as the Easy Chair, knock one up from the seats of my old CV2 that the wife is using as a plant pot and take it along to the Dragons Den for a demo.

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

What with ears being bitten off on Jet2, tasering on Easyjet. It does make the likes of IS and Al Queda look rather pathetic compared to some pissed and angry Brits :}

[DirtyProp]

It be a sight better to have the US type of electric chair fitted. Lot more civilised I would have thought. Just select required voltage, press button for seat number#, bingo peace and calm is restored without any fuss and hysteria whatsoever.
I`ll patent it as the Easy Chair, knock one up from the seats of my old CV2 that the wife is using as a plant pot and take it along to the Dragons Den for a demo.

I think you're on to something here....

[EEngr]

Did they actually fire the Taser projectiles? Or just use the contact probes on the front of the unit? If I were an officer, I'd be somewhat hesitant to fire one of these at any significant range due to the confined area involved and the possibility of hitting a bystander.

Tasers can be used as handheld stun prods. In fact, equipping cabin crew with a few cattle prods could facilitate faster passenger loading/unloading.

[RAT 5]

Guys; in many problems it is the final symptom that is targeted. The root cause of the problem is rarely considered. Wrong. A sticking plaster is not the solution, nor pain-killers, if an operation is needed.
People here, and on the Airlines/Routes section, say that you know the rules and can pay extra if you need it. That's easy to say, but is it correct? I fly many times, and on many different carriers. It is a nightmare. The rules for different carriers using the same a/c at the same airport are diverse to drive you to rage. It is daft and the carriers are at fault, not the pax. It is a customer based service and too many have forgotten that. The carriers are the root cause of the problem by their pathetic little catch you if they can minutiae regulations and lack of discretion. Not only do they have different policies with 1 hand-luggage, only; one hand-luggage + a duty free bag; 1 hand-luggage + 1 accessory e.g laptop, handbag, umbrella, duty-free bag: they then have different sizes, weights. The only choice you have is colour. I've heard of people who go outbound with one airline, no bother and then get stung for extra this & that by a different carrier using the same a/c on the return flight. Plain daft and absolutely not customer friendly. It is us who pay their wages etc. and yet we are treated as little school children to be hounded and cajoled into submission. e.g. One major has a sensible 1 hand-baggage + 1 accessory. It's LoCo subsidiary, same a/c, has a strict 1 bag only. Same airport. Dumb! That is the big difference I find between the national carriers and LoCo's. The former are not always perfect, but the customer still has more sway and receives more care and respect than with the latter. Nationality is also a factor.
I remember the days at STN where security were responsible for the hand-baggage rules: another daft idea. Some airlines had 1 bag only, others 1 bag + accessory. How to make a difficult job more difficult. It was hell, for us and them. The industry is a provider/company driven business model, not a customer driven
one. OK, there are 'pain in the neck' people, but the majority just want a peaceful trip. This is denied by pettiness and unreasonable rules and their enforcement.
If 1 handbag of 10kgs and ICAO size + 1 accessory is good enough for 1 major & 1 LoCo I travel with often, then it should be good enough for them all. Disgruntled pax are not self created. They do not go to the airport looking for an argument. The opposite. Much blame needs to be laid at the airline's feet. That is one reason why, when I can, I choose one over another. For many this is not the case. Basic facilities and curtesy should not be a matter of who can pay.

There needs to be a fight back.

Rant over.

[Stanwell]

Well said, RAT 5.
"There needs to be a fight back" ... How? Any ideas?

I've found that my easy option is to take my business elsewhere, but with air travel, that's not always possible.

[Ancient Mariner]

Like Rat 5 says. Recent trip to the Philippines involved BA, Cathay, Dragonair and Philippine Airlines outbound, for one member of our group add Norwegian.
Inbound Philippine Air, Cathay, Qatar and again Norwegian for one person.
As responsible for booking tickets for all seven travellers it took me some studying to find the lowest common denominator for check in and cabin luggage.
Quite an exercise.
Per

[skridlov]

Well said. I'm old enough to remember when recreational air travel was something one actually looked forward to. Nowadays the prospect of at least four sequences of passage through airports and aircraft is something to be dreaded. The inconsistent rules about hand baggage and their equally inconsistent implementation are one component of this change. And then there's RyanAir.

[blind pew]

Well said
Had my 60 year old wife on her knees at stansted having to shove her handbag into her carry prior to security a few years ago.
Took easy from malpensa to Athens in June...same rubbish ...took it out 10 ft away for security..then same rubbish at the gate.
Athens was slightly better but every pax had to shove their baggage into the measuring slot...sometimes twice.
Easy sent me a customer survey...of course no reply.
Fact is that their policy doesn't match the aircraft ..namely only half the pax can carry on because of the size of their overhead bins.
Ryanair are far more civilised as were aerlingus yesterday - not only did I get a smile at check in but we got an old style smooth landing at Marseilles :ok:

[anotherthing]

John R81

He did rather well; you don't get much for free on an Easyjet flightActually John, if he was tasered, he WAS charged...

How about instead of excess baggage, we weigh passengers with bags... anyone over a set total weight pays extra. Although usually fly BA Club so have no luggage issues, it irks me that my other half, a 9 Stone female, would be charged for having a bag a couple of Kilos over her allowance, when checking in behind us might be a 15 stone man....

[DCS99]

Am I the only one feeling uncomfortable that a Taser is deployed in the confines of an aircraft?

[HeartyMeatballs]

BlindPew - in afraid I have zero sympathy for you or your wife. Having flown U2 an awful lot your baggage allowance is made clear when you buy a ticket, when you check in, it is printed on your boarding pass and airport signage is there for a backup. U2 even provide YouTube videos on their baggage allowance. Their overhead bins are standard Airbus narrow body bins which are a lot larger than the non Sky interior 737s. The traveller needs to do their research. It works both ways. But I can't see how they can make it easier to understand. I also think those who alend more should get more of an allowance. Just like many legacies.

This issue is way beyond hand luggage allowances. It seems the gentleman was rather unwell. Whilst I sympathise, safety really is #1. The fact he was apparently sectioned would suggest that the bag issue was just a catalyst.

[Landflap]

Chronus, for that reason, I'm in. Where do I invest ?

[Hipennine]

Given that presumably Easy's gate-agents let the miscreant on board in the first place, the delay is arguably the airline's fault.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Well we don't know the facts of the case. It could be he was entitled to a second bag but refused to correctly stow it or perhaps there was suspicion as he he refused to part with his 'man bag'. Or he could have barged his way onboard. It's not policy in most airlines for crew to physically stop or remove passengers which is likely why the police were called.

[kick the tires]

There is an awful lot of rubbish spouted on here by people who are blinkered and just love to jump on the band wagon of sensationalised journalism.

Do you honestly think the crew want the police on the aircraft?

Do you honestly think the police want to use a taser?

Do you honestly think that they will come on board and simply taser the guy?

Previous posters on here seem to of conventionally forgotten about the build up to the incident.....

A police spokesman said the man, from Belfast, was arrested on suspicion of breach of the peace and obstructing/resisting a constable in the execution of their duty.
Following an examination by doctors, he was detained under the Mental Health Act for admission to a psychiatric unit for further assessment and treatment, Sussex Police added.

So how would you of reacted to defuse the situation? Bearing in mind of course that this guy quite obviously went off on one in a confined area, close to a large number of Adults, Children and Infants?

Give the crew and indeed the Police some credit that they all tried to reason with this guy but for reasons we dont know, there was to be no pacifying him and so for his safety, the safety of others he was Tasered.

He brought it on himself, he could of backed down at any moment, even on the last of 3 warnings that he was about to be tasered.

[BEagle]

Easyjet's cabin baggage allowance is rather more generous than is (theoretically) permitted by most airlines.

However, the airliner-mountaineers with their ridiculously large backpacks and those who insist on wheeling their wardrobes into the aircraft may soon have to think again. But according to the Daily Mail, IATA are proposing a limit of 55 x 35 x 20 cm, which is smaller than is allowed by most airlines.

I think that it's a bit ridiculous to 'recommend' a limit which is less than the recommended value (55 x 40 x 20) which has actually been in place for years now.

More arguments at check-in, longer queues at the luggage delivery belt - that's going to make airline travel such fun....

Which will mean more and more angry and unruly passengers for the flight attendants to deal with....and more incidents requiring police presence, though hopefully without Tasers.

[ShotOne]

Yes, IATA, not for the first time, seem to be on their own planet with their recommendations. But from the sounds of things, the recipient of this tasering appears to have had major personal issues aside from the size of his bag.

[Managed Descent]

When I read stories like these I thank my lucky stars I am out of the industry and prefer to take the train . I have carried hundreds of thousands of passengers and have witnessed tense altercations on board. All well handled by well trained, people oriented cabin crew. Problems never escalated and tension was defused by a senior member of the cabin crew.
We now pay these people peanuts, train them to the minimum standard required and don't allow them any scope to deal with problems for fear of litigation.
I think recruitment now is for good sales staff who can operate a door handle.
Look at all the diversions caused by an unruly passenger. A little old lady in one case. SOPs are rigidly adhered to and an aircraft load is on the ground with somebody hauled off in handcuffs.
Wouldn't have happened in my day. When the police are called, they go for the violence as their first resort rather than the last. I think the same principles apply as for cabin crew. Some instances of the use of these tasers are terrifying and I can only say, not in my name.

[Hotel Tango]

It's all down to people wanting to fly CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP and then expect legacy type service and treatment! If you want to fly Ryanair, Easyjet or any other low cost just follow the rules and shut up! If you're not happy with their product/service/treatment then find some other airline that meets your requirements. Simple.

[Rwy in Sight]

Just a thought which might be relevant or not: By adapting a relatively large carry on allowance airlines oblige passengers to board early to secure a space on the overhead compartment.

[blind pew]

Of course I know that as I can read...but we should be allowed to carry the bags through security and have them about us until we board the aircraft.
So she has a handbag which will go in her case and I have a man bag which will also fit in.

Generally in the old days with ryanair I have had to demonstrate that in the queue to board..I can then take out my man bag to board the aircraft with the junk I need for the flight so that I don't block the aisle and impede boarding.

Normally not a problem and ryanair have now added a second bag.

But some fascist idiot in easyjet has enforced a different policy as explained to me by easyjet staff.

As to your explication of the available bin space on easy compared with Ryanair you are talking out of your botty

[172driver]

Wouldn't have happened in my day. When the police are called, they go for the violence as their first resort rather than the last. I think the same principles apply as for cabin crew. Some instances of the use of these tasers are terrifying and I can only say, not in my name.

Well said!

I was not aboard this aircraft, so don't know what happened there, but from experience I can say that Easyjet are the worst - by far! - of all the locos when it comes to carry-on luggage. Their policy is shambolic, arbitrarily enforced and the A319 really seems to have less o/h space than the B737 flown by Ryanair. Of the two I know what I prefer, and it's most definitely NOT Sleazyjet. Avoid if you can.

[Chronus]

Great Landflap, am just working on a slogan, it is going to be musical and go like this.

I got chills
They're multiplying
And I'm losing control
'Cause the power you're supplying
It's electrifying!

Get the food stains off the old uniform , practice the above lines, grow a moustache like the boys on the 118 ad and we are set to go. Could do with a couple of trolley d`s with leather gear to give the demo a bit of that je ne c`est pas quoi, know of any by any chance.

[HeartyMeatballs]

I sit in the scenic end of a plane all day and during turnarounds can see that Ryanair have many bags tagged and put in the hold after being handed over at the aircraft stairs. I've regularly counted 30+ neatly lined up by the stairs. The notion that 189 can board a 737 with their carry on and their hand bag/man bag is absolutely hilarious.

The confiscation of bags at security is nothing to do with airlines. It has been a long time since I've seen this policed at any airport and your experience is certainly not what I experience weekly commuting with easyJet.

172Drive - really? Twenty years ago 'sleazyJet' was mildly amusing. Today? Can you explain how the baggage policy is shambolic. It makes perfect sense to me.

Just as a comparison:
737 non sky interior, 189Y = 78.49in2 per pax
737 with sky interior, 189Y = 74.20in2 per pax
A320 non pivoting bins, 180Y = 84.70in2 per pax

[Teevee]

"... detained under the Mental Health Act for admission to a psychiatric unit for further assessment and treatment ...!"

Baggage? Baggage??? Sod the 'extra' bag argument! If I'd been one of the pax on that aircraft and found that out I'd be somewhat relieved he was taken off before departure for whatever reason! Who knows what he might have kicked off about in mid air had he been in that frame of mind? And the fact that he had to be tasered would indicate that it would quite likely have been more than anyone else could cope with!!

[Exnomad]

My hand luggage, usually a small backpack is usually full, So I am carrying a bag containing a book, newspaper, and a bottle of water purchased airside.
Is that prohibited as being more than one item.
That would certainly bankrupt the airside retailers

[HeartyMeatballs]

Fear not, U2 allow a shopping bag from the terminal to be brought on to the aircraft, in addition to having no weight restriction on the bag.

[Exnomad]

Commenbt above about pax weight. I have sat beside pax who must weigh twice my 10 stone.
Surely there must be a limit soon on that

[Sober Lark]

Yes the baggage or no baggage argument. Apparently some chap getting off an Easyjet flight in Manchester returning from a naturist holiday had his testicles tasered.

[PAX_Britannica]

"... detained under the Mental Health Act for admission to a psychiatric unit for further assessment and treatment ...!"

Baggage? Baggage??? Sod the 'extra' bag argument! If I'd been one of the pax on that aircraft and found that out I'd be somewhat relieved he was taken off before departure for whatever reason! Who knows what he might have kicked off about in mid air had he been in that frame of mind? And the fact that he had to be tasered would indicate that it would quite likely have been more than anyone else could cope with!!

Oh Dear. Did you perchance mean to post to the Daily Mail site ?

Well, if he didn't need psychiatric help before he got on the plane...

It is claimed by various sources that the passenger was charged with "Breach of the Peace". A Mickey-Mouse charge that can mean almost anything: "Looking at a Police Officer in a funny way"; "saying something a police office doesn't want to hear". Not Actual Bodily Harm (hitting someone and causing a minor injury). Not even Assault (spitting on someone, touching or holding someone who does not consent, or sometimes behaviour which appears to physically threaten someone, without actual contact). Also not "Drunk and Disorderly".

So we appear to have a non-violent argument between a customer and staff of a service provider on an aircraft nearly ready to depart.

I fail to see how this justifies tasering anyone.

I have searched for England Police guidance on the operational use of tasers, but so far I haven't found anything except broad generalisations about Police ethics, and some failed Freedom of Information requests.
If any readers can do better, could they post or PM their findings ?

I might, perhaps vainly, hope that a Police officer entering the aircraft might assess the situation; recognise it as a heated but non-violent dispute between customer and service providers' staff; and seek to defuse the situation without taking sides. That the dispute is happening on an aircraft does not seem very relevant to me.

One hypothesis might be that the cause of the injury to the prospective passenger was partly in convergent thinking and reverse logic:
- Pilot reports problem with passenger to tower
- Tower reports problem to police
- Police charge in, taser perp, and drag him off
- Police have tasered perp, so perp must be bad or mad [taserings must be reported]
- Perp in cell
- Police figure out perp can't be done for being dangerous or drunk or hurting anyone, so left with Mickey Mouse charge[s].
- Bad might not stand up, so Police tell loony bin that they have a dangerous loony.
- Loony bin doctor duly says "yup, that's a loony"

A kind of reasoning process which I believe aviators are trained to avoid.

Is this within the remit of the AAIB?
A passenger has been injured (by a taser) on an aircraft. Does that qualify as an investigable incident?

[DaveReidUK]

Is this within the remit of the AAIB?
A passenger has been injured (by a taser) on an aircraft. Does that qualify as an investigable incident?

No. Intentional acts don't fall within the provisions of Annex 13.

[blind pew]

sums them up nicely.

The staff before security at Malpensa this june checked our boarding cards to see if we had paid for premium or not as not and we had to get on our knees and put our handbags into the carry on 10ft before we were allowed to go airside and pass through security. FACT - obviously at bequest of sleazy.

Managed descent has it right - poorly trained crew.

I would be very surprised if the boarding staff hadn't checked that his man bag fitted into his carry on...rarely seen otherwise when the aircraft is full.


As to racism I've seen more than enough in the UK - only towards very dark skins - the lighter dark skins have their own law as I've witnessed in the east end.

I visited the Caribbean pilots at RAF Hendon and heard first hand a distinguished aviator describe how he was stood on a chair with a noose around his neck and jibes of "lynch the ......"

Ireland, last month I witnessed an obese young woman at Brussels openly racist towards a VDS and her well behaved three small children in the boarding queue. Fat bird was from the republic...the North is far worse with recent news articles of trying to burn the vds out.
Only last weekend after 1 1/2 hours flying in the mornes I passed a property painted with red, white and blue flying the union flag designed to enrage the catholics and any decent minded person.

Sadly I would be very surprised if their wasn't an element of racism and certainly ignorance.

It's a sad state of affairs and no doubt sleazy have got the publicity they deserve.

[HeartyMeatballs]

It's worrying that so many have taken the tabloid headlines so literally. So if someone has too much luggage, are challenged, then force their way onto a flight, again are challenged, become increasing irate and act completely irrationally, how should an airline handle it?

This is waaaaay beyond baggage limits/who checks bags/over head sizes. I'd love to know what you easyBashers think is an acceptable way to deal with someone. This is NOT a baggage issue. It is not a race issue. It is not an airline specific issue. Would a much betterer airline have just accepted that there's a guy on who does what he wants and is quite well built and a sinple thing like s bag has caused him to loose control. Do tell me which airlines would have let him fly so I know to avoid.

There are countless examples of people being asked to leave aircraft. Usually they comply and leave, sometimes the police are called to assist and people then realise it's time to go, sometimes they need to be physically removed and rarely they are tased. That is wholly at the discretion of the police.

Not sure what the nonsense about race is all about? Is that meant to be a get out of jail card? I can do what I want, and if I'm challenged, I just say they're being racist???

[paully]

Hearty Meatballs

Sadly there are too many Daily Mail readers commenting on here, most of whom show their complete ignorance of Policing and the risks and requirements thereof...Been out of the job a while (just like a lot of ex pilots on this thread) but while I was in, I dealt with many mentally ill people,too many in fact. Most of whom are capable of developing extraordinary strength, due to their illness..

Sometimes you can reason with them and get a peaceful ending, other times that is just impossible.I well remember 3 of us having to sit on one lad in the Ambulance while we got him to admission at the mental ward.Ditto a young girl, weighing about 8 stone who threw a chair at a presiding magistrate and fought like a lion with 4 big cops..You have to have compassion and understanding for them but............

None of us had to weigh up the circumstances that were going on in that narrow aisle, but the cop had about less than a minute to make a judgement and get it right..He/she took a decision they thought was right and appropriate and I for one am happy to accept their decision. why??..because right or wrong they made it honestly, knowing their actions would be subject to inquiry afterwards (and not the bull****e written on here :ugh:)

The issue of the baggage, I think, was a symptom not a cause.Mental Illness was that cause..I cant see what blame can be attached to the cabin crew or Easyjet for that matter, but as always there will those on here who froth at the mouth too easy..:rolleyes:

[Lemain]

PAX Britannica -- A passenger has been injured (by a taser) on an aircraft.

Thank you for some sense. The passenger could have been killed - not unknown with TASERs. As for his behaviour it could have been a (physical) illness, dehydration, unbalanced electrolytes, prescription medicine with interrupted meals, fluids, sleep etc. This was someone's brother, father, or son. Even if he was mentally ill or a 'bad person' does he deserve that degree of potentially lethal force in that environment?

I think it stinks that folk believe their convenience outweighs the life and safety of a passenger.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Thanks Paully, it's good to hear something balanced for once and gives an interesting insight as to events from the side of the police.

I fully sympathise with this man. I have no ill feelings toward him. If he was unwell then I wish him a speedy recovery. However his behavior would seem to be at complete odds with operating a flight safely and the decision to remove him was the correct one. The airline and the crew have no say in how this is done and no blame can be placed on them for the tasering.

I'm confident that the police would have only used force if completely necessary and possibly did not want to risk the gentleman perhaps kicking and thrashing his way through the cabin which had children onboard. It would have been a last resort and I am sure of that.

I don't think any rational person would this this is done merely for convenience. It was done for safety. People on here have used this as easyBashing bait which is quite sickening really. Using an unwell man to support their agendas.

Didn't BA, with is uber generous baggage allowance, wonderful cabins and highly trained veteran crews come literally seconds from disaster when an unwell person stormed the cockpit and tried to take the plane down. If those who are unwell can be identified on the ground it is a lot better for them as they can be given the support they need whilst ensuing the safety of others onboard.

[Lemain]

HeartyMeatballs -- I'm not 'EasyBasher' or bleeding-heart either. TASER-ing is not entirely safe. It can kill. Those police officers who who extract folk on the apron can be well down the food chain. Certainly they won't have medical training. Remember that distressed man who doused himself in petrol? Burst into flames after the police TASER-ed him. Well, he could burst into flames, couldn't he? Commonsense tells most of us that.

My argument is with the use of a TASER. Disruptive people must be removed from the aircraft but appropriately. Since there is real risk of injury or death to the victim TASER-ing is not appropropriate unless there is real risk of injury to others.

[esa-aardvark]

Years ago I mentioned politely to a security chap who did an explosives check on me that the check would not possibly work. This was not my special area, but I happened to have read up on it. Later I was removed from the aircrft by Special Branch and had an eyeball to eyeball confrontation with them. Fortuately my credentials caused them to bac k
down. Now I don't live in England anymore, from what I have heard if you disagree with the authorities you are definately sectionable. I think Kafka would be happy in England now.

[PAX_Britannica]

No. Intentional acts don't fall within the provisions of Annex 13.

Thankyou.

As in:


Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked, in which:
a) a person is fatally or seriously injured as a result of:
— being in the aircraft, or
— direct contact with any part of the aircraft, including
parts which have become detached from the aircraft, or
— direct exposure to jet blast,

except when the injuries are from natural causes, self-inflicted or inflicted by other persons, or when the injuries are to stowaways hiding outside the areas normally available to the passengers and crew;

I find it unfortunate that in this case the analytical expertise of the AAIB in human and organisational factors cannot be deployed to investigate the roles of the training, SOPs, SOP compliance, corporate culture, and other human factors such as fatigue in this incident within both EasyJet and Sussex Police - who are responsible for policing at Gatwick Airport.

I guess part of the point of the exception is to insulate organisations such as the AAIB from political and judical interference with their function of rationally analysing the causes of an incident, so that similar incidents are less likely to recurr.

[ExXB]

Rat 5.

Don't you remember the good old days when the airlines, in IATA, would meet and agree common standards for just about everything. Baggage was no exception and included weight/piece rules for carry-on and checked bags. Even had common rules for charging for excess baggage - often not cheap. But much more convenient than shipping as cargo.

Even the non-IATA airlines followed the standards because, well, why reinvent the wheel?

Then governments, primarily European ones, the U.S., Australia and others decided all of this coordination was anti-competitive. So it stopped. IATA still exists but ther is little standard setting they can do. More often it's done in the alliances where they have limited anti-trust immunity.

Many would say we are better off with a free for all.

[SLF3]

This guy was clearly mentally ill. I would like to think he was tasered as a last resort. He might not have been. And I have zero confidence in the 'Independent Police Complaints Authority' as a brake on police behaviour.

What a sad society we live in.