CAA nav checker

[Hartington]

Back in the day the UK CAA used an HS748 to check navaids. I remember it doing ILS approach after ILS approach at Heathrow.

What do they use these days?

[Level bust]

They have downsized to a Diamond Twinstar! Although they may still have a couple of Beech 200s. Perhaps someone in the know can clarify.

[DaveReidUK]

Back in the day the UK CAA used an HS748 to check navaids. I remember it doing ILS approach after ILS approach at Heathrow.

What do they use these days?

The CAA don't use anything, it's no longer they who do calibration flights.

This is what was checking Heathrow's new ILS last week:

http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/small/001/076/001076266.jpg

[El Bunto]

Cobham have the contract for NATS and the Irish Aviation Authority:

http://www.airport-technology.com/contractors/traffic/cobham-aviation-services/

UK airports pursue their own contracts, many of them use these chaps ( the ones with the DA-42s ):

http://www.flightcalibration.co.uk/News/

[Double Hydco]

Arrived into STN (a NATS tower) in the early hours the other day. Landed between a couple of calibration profiles. I asked the tower what they use these days for calibration and was told that on this occasion it was a DA42.

DH

[DaveReidUK]

UK airports pursue their own contracts, many of them use these chaps ( the ones with the DA-42s ):

http://www.flightcalibration.co.uk (http://www.flightcalibration.co.uk/News/)

That's who operates the Navajo pictured above, in fact two Chieftains plus a Cheyenne, in addition to their DA42.

Rumour has it they are getting a bigger aircraft so they can get the whole of their URL on the side without needing a redirect. :O

[El Bunto]

Many years ago ( 1989? perhaps ) at Mildenhall I saw a USAF JetStar used for calibration, it looked awesome in wrap-around Euro1 camouflage. Looked more aggressive than most of the fast-jets!

Edit: found tiniest-ever photo of one of them:
http://www.anigrand.com/images/items/AA2093_C-140A/AA2093_C-140A_real-1.gif

Sometime in the 1990s they changed to Beechcraft Hawker Whatsits ( 125s ) which looked pretty neat, too, but not as mean as the Lockheed jet.

I wonder if they still do it or has it been subcontracted too?

[pax britanica]

Back in the day lad , the CAA -Ministry of Aviation - used a red and black Percival Prince powered by what sounded like two modified dustbins containing a water pump and which no doubt had name from Greek or Roman mythology.

I do remember the upgrade to the 748 which was probably a lot nicer for the crew and could carry more equipment.
of course with todays technology you can probably do the job on an iPad hence the down sizing .
I love the idea of needing a bigger aircraft just so you can get the web address on the side.

PB

[Martin the Martian]

El Bunto asked:

I wonder if they still do it or has it been subcontracted too?

From globalsecurity.org:

The Combat Flight Inspection (CFIN) aircraft performs in-flight wartime/peacetime/contingency inspections and evaluations of Air Traffic Control systems and procedures (e.g., instrument departures, arrivals, and approaches). The aircraft ensures navigational aids (NAVAIDs) provide safe guidance for instrument flight, especially at night or adverse weather. Since 9/11 over 900 CFIN sorties (4,500 hours) were flown in support of OEF/OIF. The Air Force reservists flew and maintained the C-29A aircraft, a military version of British Aerospace Hawker 125-800 light corporate executive transport. Six were ordered by USAF for the combat flight inspection and navigation mission roles.

By a Memorandum Of Agreement (MOA) between the Air Force and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the FAA accepted responsibility for the flight inspection program from the DOD in March 1991. As a part of this MOA, the Air Force transferred its organic CFIN aircraft to the FAA. The FAA assumed responsibility to operate and maintain the fleet (maintenance and fuel) while the Air Force provides flight crews.

In 1991 the Air Force turned over flight inspection and its C-29s to the FAA and went from 150 people to just 24. Those two dozen pilots, technicians, maintenance and support staff are responsible for a worldwide flight inspection mission. The 1st Aviation Standards Flight was a new mission for the Air Force Reserve and the 507th Air Refueling Wing. As of 01 June 1998, the 1st Aviation Standards Flight with 23 full- and part-time citizen airmen stood up at Will Rogers Airport, Oklahoma City. When fully manned, the flight consisted of 23 people - one officer and three enlisted AGRs (Active Guard Reserve) who are full-time people, and seven officer and 12 enlisted traditional reservists.

The C-29 didn't have the range and capacity to support worldwide deployments, had an operational availability of 80%, and suffered from severe wet wing corrosion problems. These capability gaps and deficiencies limited the Air Force’s ability to provide rapid and flexible support to mission tasking. In response, the Air Force and FAA established a program to replace the C-29 with the Bombardier Challenger 600 (CL-600) series aircraft. Six aircraft were required to support operational war plan tasking. The MOA stipulated the FAA will procure five new aircraft and the Air Force one. The MOA also required the Air Force to fund procurement of any military unique avionics. By 2011 the FAA had already procured four CL-600 series aircraft and phased out three C-29s. Purchase of this aircraft continued the conversion of the CFIN fleet from the C-29s to CL-600 series aircraft and satisfies the Air Force MOA commitment. Now that the Air Force has funded the fifth aircraft, the FAA has also contracted for the sixth and final CFIN aircraft in FY09 and initiated phase out of the last three C-29s.

Since the mission went to the FAA the aircraft were all given N-reggies and a smart blue and white colour scheme.

[Hartington]

Thank you all.

[treadigraph]

Rumour has it they are getting a bigger aircraft so they can get the whole of their URL on the side without needing a redirect.

Aurigny are retiring some of their Trislanders, that might be long enough! :}

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I'm amazed that a Twinstar is stable enough but they probably have modern technology and not the Telecroscope!

Calibrations could give rise to a few sixpence-halfcrown problems, especially when they were "opposite direction". Maybe some old Heathrow lags will remember...

[Double Hydco]

I was in Cagliari the other day when calibration of the VOR was in progress.

They use a Piaggio P.180 Avanti down there......

[kcockayne]

No one has mentioned the Doves which MoA/CAA used for many years for ILS calibration etc. We (ATC Cadets) used to get to fly in these (& sometimes to fly them) when they were used at Hurn to allow the other Cadets to practise SRAS.
Back in the day !

[enicalyth]

Calibration flights due to start soon at FHSH/HLE on St Helena.

[DaveReidUK]

In response, the Air Force and FAA established a program to replace the C-29 with the Bombardier Challenger 600 (CL-600) series aircraft. Six aircraft were required to support operational war plan tasking.The FAA's initial 3 Challengers were 601-3R series aircraft, and the 3 later ones are/will be Challenger 604s.

[Level bust]

Back in the 70s didn't the FAA use Convair 240s (or similar) in Europe, I remember seeing them at East Midlands where I believe Fields did the maintenance on them.

[El Bunto]

Some interesting historical info here:

International Committee for Airspace Standards and Calibration
History of Flight Inspection in Various Countries

History of Flight Inspection in Various Countries - ICASC (http://www.icasc.co/history/history-of-flight-inspection-in-various-countries/)

The East Germans used an Il-18. Nice! And probably still quieter than an Avanti...

[pax britanica]

I remember the FAA Convairs which I think might have also done calibration work for European USAF/USN bases.

Also the CAA Doves which might well have done the job between the princes and the 748s but not sure on that.

I also remember a NASA DC6-so long ago it might have been NACA doing a whole series of flights out of LHR for some reason that was supposed to be to do with future ATC issues but that really was along time ago

PB

[kcockayne]

pax britanica

The Doves operated at the same time as the Princes, & then took over completely when the Princes were retired. This would have been from the mid, or late, 1950s until the Princes went during the late '60s. I think the Doves were themselves retired somewhere near the end of the 70s. That is when the 748s took over.
If my memory serves me right the Princes were G-AMKW,X & Y. The Doves were more numerous & included G-ANOV, OW, UT, UU , UV , G-ALVS, G-ALFT. Although I'm not totally certain of this !

[DaveReidUK]

Aircraft - CAFU History (http://www.cafuhistory.com/aircraft.html)

[El Bunto]

I also remember a NASA DC6-so long ago it might have been NACA doing a whole series of flights out of LHR for some reason that was supposed to be to do with future ATC issues but that really was along time agoFound this pic of N428NA at Heathrow dated 1971

Douglas C-118A, N428NA, NASA (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1037884/no_pictures.php)

I wonder if that's one of the Froggy Falcon 20 calibrators behind it.

[chevvron]

Found this pic of N428NA at Heathrow dated 1971

Douglas C-118A, N428NA, NASA (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1037884/no_pictures.php)


I think you'll find that had nothing to do with ATC calibrations; it was used to calibrate the NASA spacecraft tracking station at Winkfield Row, Berkshire. I was working at LATCC West Drayton at this time and we often got UFO reports triggered by this aircraft as it used an array of strobe lights, normally in the early hours of the morning.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Chevvron is on the ball...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

El Bunto In the 70s we were using Doves and Avro 748s and I do not recall Falcons being used in those days.

[Double Hydco]

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag21/belfast97/Untitled_zps0r6yr8su.jpg

A blurred snap of a youthful me about to go for a jolly in the CAFU HS125 in 1983.....

I did several trips in the 125's and the Navajo, but not the 748's, although I had a couple of flights in the RAF Andovers during my service career.

DH

[El Bunto]

El Bunto In the 70s we were using Doves and Avro 748s and I do not recall Falcons being used in those days..

Perhaps my terminology was a bit obscure. The French flight cal unit used Falcon 20s until the mid-1970s when fuel-costs forced downgrading to Nord 262s.

[thing]

The mob used to use the old Whistling Tit back in the 70's. I remember it doing the cal at Coningsby. 115 Sqdn from Cottesmore as I recall.

[evansb]

NAV CANADA presently uses a Canadair Challenger for aerial navaid inspection and calibration.
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/gumpjr_bucket/NAVCANADA20CHALLENGER.jpg

[chevvron]

The mob used to use the old Whistling Tit back in the 70's. I remember it doing the cal at Coningsby. 115 Sqdn from Cottesmore as I recall.
Wyton too as I recall!

[kcockayne]

If the "Whistling Tit" is the Argosy, it was also used at Farnborough & sundry other RAF airfields.

[28right]

A very good book on the history of the Civil Aviation Flying Unit was recently published by Jim Fuller who worked for them for many years. I first met Jim at Stansted in 1962 when I was an ATCA in the tower. The Doves were principally used for pilot examinations, including IR tests. CAFu also had 3 Percival Princes and a President as well as 2 Chipmunks, in the sixties. I enjoyed many a ride in the right hand seat of the Doves from EGSS as a lookout pilot.

[chevvron]

If the "Whistling Tit" is the Argosy, it was also used at Farnborough & sundry other RAF airfields.

The one based at Farnborough was used by ETPS, nothing to do with calibrating ATC equipment, but the Wyton based ones visited every 6 months/180 days to flight check the PAR until the were replaced by Andovers. I also remember one doing a commisioning flight check on our (then) new digital readout DF; we were still giving it Class A bearings when it was overhead Wyton descending to land.