MiG 29 and F-16 Musings

[Fonsini]

The problem with calling something fascinating is that the first person to reply will tell you it really isn't.

So for me this is fascinating :8

How To Win In A Dogfight: Stories From A Pilot Who Flew F-16s And MiGs (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-to-win-in-a-dogfight-stories-from-a-pilot-who-flew-1682723379)

His "diss" on the Mirage 2000 caught me unawares, I always thought that was the sleeper on the modern fighter stage (in a good way).

[Courtney Mil]

Well I found it fascinating too. Thank you for posting it. An interesting swipe at F-35 too.

[Background Noise]

..and the second to say it's been on before! :p

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/559750-how-win-dogfight-stories.html (http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/559750-how-win-dogfight-stories.html)

[Danny42C]

Came across this Thread in an idle moment. Read it and was utterly enthralled by Colonel Clifton's story. Can recommend it to anyone with an interest in the trade of "Fighter Pilot" (and what wonderful, salty, aphorisms !)

Was in Class of 42C in the USAAC "Arnold" Scheme, and it is surprising how his Flight School washout rate (50%) chimes with our Class (40%) and we thought that was terrible. I believe the overall "Arnold" washout rate was 43%. We sent 7885 LACs out (we were classed as "Aviation Cadets") and got 4493 pilots back. I was one (these would nearly all end up in Bomber Command, I suppose). On return to the UK I did a Spitfire "Operational Training Unit" (75 hrs on type).

Then, rarin' to go as a Fighter Pilot and put my training to good use, I was posted to India (where there were [then] no Spitfires). Things never change ! and spent the next few years dive bombing the Japs in Burma with the US A31s (Vultee Vengeance). Never flew a Spitfire again for 7 years.

Funny old world.

Danny42C.

[Chugalug2]

BN:-
.and the second to say it's been on before! :pSo it might have been, but a first for me and fascinating doesn't say the half of it. As a dyed in the wool, straight and level, tea every hour on the hour, ex-truckie this modest man's description of a USAF fighter pilot's career, and what he did and how I found very impressive. He also illustrates the gulf between the flight line and the HQ in any Air Force!

What a marvellous illustration of the value of the exchange system, and what a condemnation of how it can be under valued! We had USAF exchange pilots on a number of the squadrons I was on. Without exception they created a positive effect, not only on a personal basis, but in the way that their Service was perceived and respected as a result. I've no doubt that the same applied elsewhere. As he says, at the end of the day we are all united by our love of flying.

Not an F-35 enthusiast though...

[Courtney Mil]

...and from his perspective I can see his reservations.

Good post, Chug. Funnily enough, I had a similar issue when I was about to return to the UK at the end of my (happily extended -twice) exchange tour on the F-15. The posters at Barnwood (as it was then) wanted to send me to some pen-pushing nightmare until friends in high places pointed out that one of the reasons for sending folk on exchanges is to bring back valuable experience and knowledge. It would have been a disaster to send me a scribbly job - I could only spell in American by then and suffered dizzy spells if I didn't pull 9 at least 6 times a day!

I was stunned by how little they valued returning exchange officers, as usual the complexities of the personnel management system couldn't cope with tactical value unless pushed with a big stick. Mind you, they remembered my background quickly enough when they needed someone to deploy to the Americans on ops when everyone else had excuses not to go.

Sox for the thread drift.

[Chugalug2]

Not thread drift at all, CM, but the very essence of good PPRuNing I'd say.

The whole business of 'exchanging' has always seemed to me to be both underrated and yet almost the West's secret weapon. Treaties that combine the Forces of different cultures, languages, and customs, need a fair amount of glue to ensure they work in harmony. Much of that glue I seem to recall could be found at happy hour in various bars and clubs around the world.

Always strange how what seems commonplace to one half of such an exchange is special to another, guest nights and pub crawls down terrifyingly narrow and windy roads, compared to very modern infrastructure and systems, and bar crawls where the beer became suspiciously weaker as the night wore on (turns out it was).

[KenV]

Not an F-35 enthusiast though...

He sure isn't.

On the other hand, he never flew the F-35 nor was he ever in an assignment related to the F-35. And he was a civilian by 2004, more than two years before the F-35's first flight. So it would seem that all he knew about the F-35 is what came from the press, which was generally far from unbiased.

[Snafu351]

@KenV in 2004 LM and the paid shills were loudly proclaiming 8 to 1 air to air ratios in favour of the F35.


You are quite correct the press (releases) were certainly not unbiased.


As an aside you do rather protest too much.

[KenV]

As an aside you do rather protest too much.

"Protest too much?" I wasn't aware I had protested at all. But it does fascinate me how some folks are personally offended by the darndest things.

Anyway, like the OP I thought the article was fascinating and provided some great insights and anecdotes. I would love to exchange stories with this fine USAF pilot.

[Turbine D]

Quote by KenV: On the other hand, he never flew the F-35 nor was he ever in an assignment related to the F-35. And he was a civilian by 2004, more than two years before the F-35's first flight. So it would seem that all he knew about the F-35 is what came from the press, which was generally far from unbiased.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black…:=

[Ewan Whosearmy]

KenV

Clifton still teaches at the Weapons School at Nellis, so I strongly suspect that his knowledge of the F-35 comes from rather more direct and credible routes than the media.

Not saying that makes him 'correct', but it does challenge the inference in your post that, as a civilian, he doesn't have the inside scoop any more.

[KenV]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black…:=You appear to be saying that his opinion of the F-35 is worth the same as mine. If so I must disagree. He was more involved in air-to-air and DACT than I and he remains much more involved than I. Consequently, I think his opinion should weigh far more than mine.

[Turbine D]

KenV,
The phrase "The pot calling the kettle black" is an idiom used to claim that a person is guilty of the very thing of which they accuse another.
Since you now confirm he may have greater knowledge than you do about the F-35, I take back the idiom…;)