Emirates Requirements

[qld330]

For interested folk
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Requirements now ICAO ATPL (1500hrs) and ICAO 4

[SOPS]

Ask yourself, why have they had to do it?

[Frogman1484]

Because Cx's requirements are so low that EK cannot recruit any zero hour pilot?
:ugh:

[hkgyyzhkg]

They are also in "pilot shortage".

Aside from the strict restrictions they had (before this), many of their pilots were leaving. I don't know why this post is in this section of the forum (should be in the middle east section), but there are numerous posts about pilots leaving EK. And that hasnt changed for over 10 years (nearly when they started expanding). If you want to know why, look through the middle east section.

[hkgyyzhkg]

Note: They have the same exact topic in the middle east section of Pprune. To save you sometime as to why pilots want to leave, Ill just leave this right here

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/551834-ek-resignation-tips.html

[CYRILJGROOVE]

It's not a case of the grass is greener......there is no grass its sand, and guys are leaving in unprecedented numbers and some of the folk still there hate it with a passion.......beware

[Frogman1484]

I know a lot of guys at EK that are happy, they also realize that there is nowhere else to go, so they don't dwell on the negative aspects of the job.

No matter where you work, you will find fault with something.

I still think that Emirates or Etihad are good viable options. At least there you get given a villa to live in. ALL of your salary is yours to spend, not like in HKG where more than half of your salary goes to the tax man and the landlord! The rest goes to the 3 Tycoon families that run HKG.

I would also like to point out that the current EK recruitment limits is what Cathay was getting 15 years ago. The fact that we can only attract zero hour cadets or 250 hour "Experienced " SO's, it still goes to show that they can attract a good candidate , where CX cannot!

[McNugget]

Like Frogman, I know a handful of folks over in the Middle East - some happy, some less so, and some plain unhappy.

Comparing the package is slightly apples-to-oranges, I reckon.

EK will pay you a tax-free annual salary of about 8k USD as an FO. On top of that, they'll provide accommodation, so the salary is all yours.

As a QL'd LEP FO at CX, after tax and 28k in rent, you're left with about the same. You can nurse either side's figures to seem a little better or worse, but on financial grounds, there's probably not enough in it to justify the move. Save for the fact that the accommodation provided by EK is most likely nicer than your 28k pad in HKG, and when you start a family, you're given a bigger place by EK.

I'm personally not convinced that my Command would come any quicker at EK than staying at CX. That could change either way, of course.

So, I suppose the toss-up, in my opinion, is whether an LEP is willing to move to the ME for a better apartment. That's a subjective decision, I'd say. Some love Dubai, some hate it. Same for Hong Kong.

Both cities are expensive to live in. Both are great at making you open your wallet on what would be perceived as luxuries (nice meals out, champagne brunches, mucking around on boats, etc), and inflation is high.

Assuming EY's figures are roughly similar, there may be an advantage there due to a seemingly far shorter time to command.

I'll gladly be shown my errors here, but assuming my figures are about right, I see much of the rest of the equation as equal. There are good fleets and bad fleets at both, there are managerial/industrial issues at both, etc. so I'm not sure leaving one for the other over those concerns makes too much sense.

I'm of the opinion that if you don't like it here, and home is where the heart is (which is a valid emotion), then I can't see much to change your thinking over in the sandy regions.

[Frogman1484]

McNugget, you are spot on Save for the fact that the accommodation provided by EK is most likely nicer than your 28k pad in HKG, and when you start a family, you're given a bigger place by EK.

This point you raised is what would make me move. You got to remember this is your life, you only get one, you might as well do it in comfort:ok:

[McNugget]

McNugget, you are spot on

This point you raised is what would make me move. You got to remember this is your life, you only get one, you might as well do it in comfort:ok:

Fair point! I'd rather do it in more comfort also, though not at the expense of living somewhere we enjoy. So, to me, I don't think it's a goer on accommodation alone. Some will think differently, for sure.

[Captain Dart]

You young 'uns will have to think about where you, and the airline, will be in 10-15 years time. Your fates are intertwined.

Cathay Pacific will be going nowhere. HKIA will be slot-limited 24 hours a day. It doesn't matter how many runways they are building, the Chinese have no intention of releasing any extra airspace to use them properly, so that they can protect their own airports and their paranoid and powerful military. There will be no extra aircraft, just a few new ones replacing the older ones.

Hong Kong will become unviable for connecting flights due to delays; already, one line of CBs shuts the joint down for hours. Businessmen will avoid. Mainland Chinese will fly direct on their own rapidly expanding airlines. CX will become 'Mong Kok Airlines'.

CX captains are relatively young, and most will remain in Hong Kong due to 'grandfathered' housing and other benefits. Command slots will be virtual 'dead mens' shoes'.

My understanding is that the new Jebel Ali airport will have five runways. How many A380's are on order by the ME3 again? There is some disturbing reading on the Middle East forum but at least there is semi-decent housing, a relatively clean environment, and expansion for the foreseeable future. You can do the hard yards there for a few years, put some money away, then quit and do something else.

At the end of that time frame: where are you going to be? Commanding a shiny A380 into Heathrow? Or filling out the CFP as a ten-year FO of a clapped-out A330 on the way to Taipei for a split duty and yet another two-crew through-the-WOCL next on the roster?

Oh, and when you get home to your wife and baby in your tiny, noisy flat, there is a letter waiting: the rapacious Hong Kong landlord has just put the rent up again.

[cxorcist]

Enjoyed reading that Dart. Cheers. It is as accurate as it is entertaining.

[Intrax]

Comparatively DXB is cheaper than HKG in some ways such as transportation, daily groceries etc. I had purposely flew to DXB to do some market surveys about 3 years ago.

[XFR8]

There is no future at CX. The downward trajectory will continue. When considering moving, its key to remember this. The grass may not be greener at the moment but the future is not bright at CX. Get out while you still can. Those of you young bucks criticising "A" scalers will be those very people in 10 years time ... except you'll be earning about a quarter of the salary etc..

[Oldaircrew]

Intrax,

3 years ago? Your market research is wayyyyyyy out of date.

As a matter of interest, I joined 4 years ago. if I got command tomorrow, my salary increase would give me the same buying power I had when I joined.

[Frogman1484]

SO's in CX are paid less that what I was paid as an SO almost 20 years ago!:{

[Frogman1484]

Curtain rod. Sex is like parking....if drive around the block a few times and try a bit harder, you can get one for free! :ok:

[Lowkoon]

Worth comparing schools as well. no end of complaints about HK schools, and what you get for your money, unless your wife wants to home school the tribe in your palatial 450 square ft.

[Anotherday]

At EK you can take the cash option for housing rent a nice 1500sq/ft (actual) and live off the cash left over. Have a few mates doing this and pocketing all their salary as savings. In comparison to CX, financially you'd be streets ahead at EK.
Accommodation is the biggie in the equation and value for money EK is way better.

[Sqwak7700]

specially now that we will have to work more (again) for free.

If you are working more then you deserve what you get. There are plenty of ways to work less.

[hkgyyzhkg]

I can't say who is better. But taxes, housing and government restrictions, that's something CX cannot control.

For EK, the future seems to be growing exponentially. But if rumors are true, what happens if the state stop sponsoring the airline? They don't care if they have to fire half the staff.

[Frogman1484]

With oil price at $60 and going lower, the airline is the only thing that is going to grow! I very much doubt that they will stop supporting it.

Do you think CX will not fire the lot of us if required?:ugh:

[Trafalgar]

Frog. Really...? No, actually I do not. The HK Govt will not allow a massive disruption of CX. The airline is desperately trying to bluff us into thinking that all is well and they have 'us' in hand. The truth of the matter is that they are barely functioning. They are cancelling flights and attempting to bully us into working ourselves to death, re, changing our RP's. Firing the 'lot' of us is completely impractical. Think that one through and even you can figure out why. Good grief.

[AnAmusedReader]

Quite right Trafalgar.
That's why if we went on strike CX wouldn't get away with firing as the HK Govt would stop the sackings. HKG can't operate without CX.
The A scalers should have had the sense in 1999 to "be sacked" because HKG would have ordered reinstatement and back to the table. However, we (and I was one) were too stupid at the time to realise it.

[Frogman1484]

...but you think that at EK the powers at be will stop supporting the airline!:ugh: