Beginner's guide to the RAF rank structure

[light_my_spey]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f291/randystarburst/11709586_1601681806748298_7592248943875715415_n_zps8kisaq84. png (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/randystarburst/media/11709586_1601681806748298_7592248943875715415_n_zps8kisaq84. png.html)

:E

LMS

[NutLoose]

:E

Bring on the popcorn

[bingofuel]

I thought Sir Michael Beetham was still alive, with the rank of Marshal of the Royal Air Force.

Therefore an error in the table.

[light_my_spey]

it's just a joke...

[Bill Macgillivray]

And Lord Craig?

[4mastacker]

..and this is the one that really matters.

http://www.badgeofpride.com/Blazer%20badge%20images%20and%20pages/images/RAF%20Warrant%20Officer%20rank%20insignia.jpg

[light_my_spey]

honestly...

[bingofuel]

Lets see if anyone can match the appropriate rank to each respondent in this thread?

[BEagle]

4mastacker, I have no idea what that badge is - but why is that rather camp unicorn wearing lipstick and staring up a pussycat's bum whilst piddling on the floor?

The original version of 'rank':

Air Marshal
Can leap tall buildings with a single bound
More powerful than a steam train
Faster than a speeding bullet
Walks on water and
Gives policy to God

Air Commodore
Can leap tall buildings with a running start
More powerful than a diesel engine
Just as fast as a speeding bullet
Walks on water if sea is calm
Discusses policy with God

Group Captain
Leaps short buildings with a single bound
More powerful than tank engines
Can occasionally keep up with a speeding bullet
Walks on water in small lakes
Talks with God

Wing Commander
Leaps short buildings with a running start
Is almost as powerful as a tank engine
Is able to avoid a speeding bullet
Walks on water in indoor swimming pools
Talks to God if special request is granted

Squadron Leader
Can just clear a small hut
Loses tug of war with tank engine
Can fire a speeding bullet
Swims well
Is occasionally addressed by God

Flight Lieutenant
Demolishes chimney when leaping small huts
Is run over by steam trains
Can handle a gun
Dog paddles adequately
Talks to animals

Flying Officer
Runs into buildings
Recognises steam trains two times out of three
Is not issued with guns
Can stay afloat with Mae West
Talks to walls

Pilot Officer
Falls over doorsteps
Says I see no trains
Wets himself with water pistol
Stays on dry land
Mumbles to himself


Warrant Officer
Lifts tall buildings and walks under them
Kicks steam trains off the tracks
Catches bullets in his teeth
Freezes water with a single glance
Because He is God!

[Big Pistons Forever]

Mandatory operations when selected for promotion in the RCAF or RCN

Maj/LCdr to LCol/Cdr: Remove heart

LCol/Cdr to Col/Capt(N): Remove spine

Col/Capt(N) Bgn/Cmdre: Remove brain

[Hydromet]

I don't know about in the Air Force, although I presume the wearer of 4mastacker's badge does much the same as in the Army:

Tells Lieutenants
Counsels Captains
Advises Majors
Discusses the options with Colonels.

[Tankertrashnav]

I thought Sir Michael Beetham was still alive, with the rank of Marshal of the Royal Air Force.


And Lord Craig

And Jock Stirrup and HRH The Prince of Wales. Appointment to the rank for retired Air Chief Marshals and for members of the Royal Family is now at the monarch's discretion.

That is a really terrible badge 4mastacker - did you get it out of a cereal packet?

[TheWizard]

The title of this thread is missing a word from it, "officer".
In the interest of parity for those that realise there is a far bigger and more powerful rank structure in the RAF

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11742861_1658117257755252_5553851317654463022_n.jpg?oh=9c3c7 25acd1e47181cc716a0650b8ab0&oe=560FB0DD
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11745794_1658512314382413_6946837628246507802_n.jpg?oh=31efc e9f0053141b251bb5dd1e2fa0a6&oe=564E7D95
Images nicked from Faceache

[ShyTorque]

A certain RAF Loadmaster was working down the back of a C130. An Army Major called "I say, Staff....STAFF!"

The Loadie ignored him.

"STAFF...STAFF! I'm talking to YOU!"

Loadie says: "Oh, do you mean me, sir? I'm a Flight Sergeant, not a Staff Sergeant..."

Major: "Well, Flight Sergeant, if you were in the army, you'd be a Staff Sergeant!"

Loadie: "If I was in the Army, sir, I'd be a Brigadier!"

[cornish-stormrider]

I spent half the wage bill.......
Loved it too.

[4mastacker]

..but why is that rather camp unicorn wearing lipstick and staring up a pussycat's bum whilst piddling on the floor?


Mr BEagle,

The current light blue must observe equality, diversity and inclusivity and all persuasions of real and mythical tastes must be catered for - unlike the "old", non-PC, days when a red-blooded unicorn would be trying to s**g the cat. ;)

[reds & greens]

Wonderful quote from a crusty WO to a Pilot Officer, when questioned as to why he didn't salute him
'With that braid, I don't know if I should salute it, or floss with it...'

[Slow Biker]

During a visit to Redstone Arsenal in deepest Alabama for some trials we were escorted by a US Army 1st Lt. After I was introduced she mused 'mmmm, warrant officer, that's sort of like an officer who works, right'? Yeah,right.

[Union Jack]

A certain RAF Loadmaster was working down the back of a C130. An Army Major called "I say, Staff....STAFF!"

The Loadie ignored him.

"STAFF...STAFF! I'm talking to YOU!"

Loadie says: "Oh, do you mean me, sir? I'm a Flight Sergeant, not a Staff Sergeant..."

Major: "Well, Flight Sergeant, if you were in the army, you'd be a Staff Sergeant!"

Loadie: "If I was in the Army, sir, I'd be a Brigadier!"

- Shy Torque 27 Jul 15

Which reminds me of an exchange about ten years later in the RAF:
Army officer to Argosy FE: "I say, Staff Sergeant . . "
FE: "I'm a Flight Sergeant, Sir."
AO: "Ah, if you were in the Army you'd be a Staff Sergeant."
FE: "No, Sir, if I was in the Army, I'd be a Brigadier!"
Boom, boom!

- Basil 24 May 15

I was sat on, erm, a Nimrod C130 once, next to a SNCO - mate of mine -manning the door gun. This army Brigadier was shouting "Staff! Staff!" to get his attention.

Well, my mate was having none of it until the Brigadier was right in his face. The Brigadier asked if he was ignoring him, my mate said he didn't know it was him being called as he was a flight sergeant, right?

So the Brigadier said, "Well, if you were in the army, you'd be a staff sergeant."

And my mate said, this is brilliant, "No Sir, if I was in the army, I'd be a Colonel." We were in stitches honestly. Legend.

- Scuttled 19 Dec 2011

Topcliffe, early 80's. RAF training Royal Navy to fly on an Army Base.

RAF Flt Sgt B***e stood in the middle of the Bulldog line watching the see off's.

Enter Army major (with obligatory dog), being rather unsure of where to go, the Major calls to the Flt Sgt.

Maj: "Staff Sergeant."

Flt Sgt ignores the Major.

Maj: calls again (but louder) "Staff Sergeant, Staff Sergeant"

Flt Sgt ignores the Major.

At this point the Major takes his life (and his dog's life) in his hands and marches across the apron, dodges between the taxying Bulldogs and collars the Flt Sgt.

Maj: "Staff Sergeant, did you not hear me calling you?

Flt Sgt: "Oh, I'm sorry sir, but I'm a Flight Sergeant, not a Staff Sergeant"

Maj: "If you were in this Regiment, you would be a Staff Sergeant"

At this, Flt Sgt B***e responded

"No Sir, if I was in your Regiment, I would be a lieutenant Colonel"

- Taxydual 10 Apr 08


Telling the chaps at work today of this site I heard one about a Lt Col travelling baggage class in a Herc. As the loadie was walking aft,the Lt Col called out 'Staff....Staff'
The loadie chose to ignore him and carried on his way.
Job done, the loadie makes his way up front again and once more the agitated Lt Col calls out 'STAFF....STAFF'
The loadie has had enough by now and says 'Look, I am Flight Sergeant, not a bloody wooden stick'
To which the Lt Col says 'If you were in the Army, you would be a staff sergeant, hence STAFF'
The loadie smugly replies..'If I were in the army I would be a Lt Col!'

- Satco's Whipping Boy 8 Sep 2000


Come on chaps - do make your mind up!:D

Looks like C130s win, - at least for as far back as I'm prepared to look after less than five minutes looking - but I can't help feeling that Scuttled may have got a little bit confused.....:confused:

Jack

[Roadster280]

Well if it's the silly old games (i.e. Flight, Flight!....No Sir I'd be a Group Captain), then there's always this one:

Army corporal strolling down the main drag in Div HQ one day, and along comes a Flt Lt going the other way. "Morning Sir" (no salute) .

"You there! Don't you salute Flight Lieutenants in the Army?"

"No Sir, we don't have any".

[downsizer]

A certain RAF Loadmaster was working down the back of a C130. An Army Major called "I say, Staff....STAFF!"

The Loadie ignored him.

"STAFF...STAFF! I'm talking to YOU!"

Loadie says: "Oh, do you mean me, sir? I'm a Flight Sergeant, not a Staff Sergeant..."

Major: "Well, Flight Sergeant, if you were in the army, you'd be a Staff Sergeant!"

Loadie: "If I was in the Army, sir, I'd be a Brigadier!"

- Shy Torque 27 Jul 15

Which reminds me of an exchange about ten years later in the RAF:
Army officer to Argosy FE: "I say, Staff Sergeant . . "
FE: "I'm a Flight Sergeant, Sir."
AO: "Ah, if you were in the Army you'd be a Staff Sergeant."
FE: "No, Sir, if I was in the Army, I'd be a Brigadier!"
Boom, boom!

- Basil 24 May 15

I was sat on, erm, a Nimrod C130 once, next to a SNCO - mate of mine -manning the door gun. This army Brigadier was shouting "Staff! Staff!" to get his attention.

Well, my mate was having none of it until the Brigadier was right in his face. The Brigadier asked if he was ignoring him, my mate said he didn't know it was him being called as he was a flight sergeant, right?

So the Brigadier said, "Well, if you were in the army, you'd be a staff sergeant."

And my mate said, this is brilliant, "No Sir, if I was in the army, I'd be a Colonel." We were in stitches honestly. Legend.

- Scuttled 19 Dec 2011

Topcliffe, early 80's. RAF training Royal Navy to fly on an Army Base.

RAF Flt Sgt B***e stood in the middle of the Bulldog line watching the see off's.

Enter Army major (with obligatory dog), being rather unsure of where to go, the Major calls to the Flt Sgt.

Maj: "Staff Sergeant."

Flt Sgt ignores the Major.

Maj: calls again (but louder) "Staff Sergeant, Staff Sergeant"

Flt Sgt ignores the Major.

At this point the Major takes his life (and his dog's life) in his hands and marches across the apron, dodges between the taxying Bulldogs and collars the Flt Sgt.

Maj: "Staff Sergeant, did you not hear me calling you?

Flt Sgt: "Oh, I'm sorry sir, but I'm a Flight Sergeant, not a Staff Sergeant"

Maj: "If you were in this Regiment, you would be a Staff Sergeant"

At this, Flt Sgt B***e responded

"No Sir, if I was in your Regiment, I would be a lieutenant Colonel"

- Taxydual 10 Apr 08


Telling the chaps at work today of this site I heard one about a Lt Col travelling baggage class in a Herc. As the loadie was walking aft,the Lt Col called out 'Staff....Staff'
The loadie chose to ignore him and carried on his way.
Job done, the loadie makes his way up front again and once more the agitated Lt Col calls out 'STAFF....STAFF'
The loadie has had enough by now and says 'Look, I am Flight Sergeant, not a bloody wooden stick'
To which the Lt Col says 'If you were in the Army, you would be a staff sergeant, hence STAFF'
The loadie smugly replies..'If I were in the army I would be a Lt Col!'

- Satco's Whipping Boy 8 Sep 2000


Come on chaps - do make your mind up!:D

Looks like C130s win, - at least for as far back as I'm prepared to look after less than five minutes looking - but I can't help feeling that Scuttled may have got a little bit confused.....:confused:

Jack

Spoilsport. You'll be telling me the time the SWO placed his pace stick on me and said

" There is a peice of **** on the end of this stick"

and I replied sharply

" It's not on this end, Sir" before legging it, didn't happen.:\

[thefodfather]

If we on are the subject of saluting stories, I hopefully have a new one (apart from all the people I told at the time).

While on the long walk to the car park at Shriv (JOCC students park as far away as possible) I passed an older gentleman who chastised me for not saluting Cols in the Army. I looked him up and down, pointing out he was in civvies and unfortunately I didn't recognise him to salute. While expecting a smart answer in reply, he simply replied with "F*** me, so I am, terribly sorry" and carried on about his day.

[MPN11]

Back in the days of the proper WRNS, a 3O walked past the irritating sod/ba**ard of a Stn Cdr at Shawbury and didn't salute.

Stn Cdr throws his typical wobbly ... "WHY didn't you salute ME????"

"Because I don't have to, Sir" :ok:

Wish we could all have done that. Bloody awful man. :cool:

[Dougie M]

Of course, as was well known, the WRNS were not subject to the Navy Act which was a blessing. On occasions they were quite acquiescent to other acts however.
We're back to pussers twangers again :\ .

[Union Jack]

"Because I don't have to, Sir"

If only that were correct if the man was that bad but, before they came under the Naval Discipline Act in 1977 (which by implication this was), WRNS officers and ratings were required to salute Commanders and above, and I suspect that a Group Captain would just about qualify, not least as the only Royal Air Force rank to sport a single row of scrambled egg.:hmm:

Jack

[Danny42C]

MPN11 (your #23),

The Shawbury G/Capt you had in mind wasn't "W", by any chance ?

Danny.

[MPN11]

Danny42C ... it could have been W at the time of the event, although I may be confusing the incident/time/individual with B who followed him. I can't now recall which course (JATCC or GCA) I was on when it happened, or indeed which Stn Cdr was supremely unloved :).

Union Jack ... it was indeed pre-1977. I was unaware of the nuance you mention, though.

[FantomZorbin]

Danny, MPN11
There was a W in late 70's who meets the description ... in spades!!

[langleybaston]

QUOTE
If only that were correct if the man was that bad but, before they came under the Naval Discipline Act in 1977 (which by implication this was), WRNS officers and ratings were required to salute Commanders and above, and I suspect that a Group Captain would just about qualify, not least as the only Royal Air Force rank to sport a single row of scrambled egg.

I think the perceived injustice done to Wing Commanders with their bald cap peaks is rooted in the days of sail, when RN Commanders commanded vessels of the lower rates.

Not sure about Lt Cols though ............. any advice thereon?

[MPN11]

And, indeed, why RAF gp capts [and above] don't have collar tabs like Army cols, especially given the roots of the RFC.

Nice pale blue tabs would look cool :)

[Danny42C]

MPN11 and Fantom Zorbin,

IIRC, I was on the ATC School at Shawbury from autumn'62 to summer'65, casting my pearls before the new young ladies and gentlemen (mostly from Henlow) entering the Branch.

MPN11, I think you went through during that time, so we're speaking about the same man (remember the Grins Hill Walk ?!!) He was a few years older than I, so is by definition dead - and the dead can't sue for libel, fortunately.

Fantom Zorbin, you were long after that, so you must've had another of those of whom it was said: "The man should never have been commissioned in the first place - but it didn't show until he reached Group Captain !"

Danny.

[BEagle]

Danny42C wrote: "The man should never have been commissioned in the first place - but it didn't show until he reached Group Captain !"


I can think of 2 Stn Cdrs of whom that would have been an accurate description!

[taxydual]

Take your pick

Station OCs (http://www.rafweb.org/Stations/Station%20OCs-Wales.htm#Shawbury)

[Wander00]

I can think of one or two, not at Shawbury, and one in particular at a station the other side of the country!

[Dan Winterland]

A military veteran in the US joins their veterans employment programme and gets a job at a local branch of well known chain of stores. Because he's very pleasant and genial, they make him one of the greeters, and he excels. Except for one thing - he's invariably half an hour late for work. His boss mentions this and asks if he was always this tardy in the military, to which the answer was in the affirmative. The next question was how did people in the military respond to this, to which he answered;

"Good morning General, how would you like your coffee?".

All true - allegedly. (Of course!)

[Vasco Sodcat]

A few years ago I went to HMS Raleigh to see the graduation of a friend's son. In No 1s with brevet and a fair amount of left-tit bling, the sight of dozens of recruits trying to work out what to do, and choosing to dive into random buildings to avoid making the wrong choice still amuses me. :)

[teeteringhead]

Take your pick

Station OCs (http://www.rafweb.org/Stations/Station%20OCs-Wales.htm#Shawbury) Cor blimey ... bit of nostalgia there! Served with or knew - at Shawbs or elsewhere - a scary 21 of them!! :eek: Must be getting old.... :{

Any reason why some names are in italics and some not - doesn't seem to be a "dead or alive" or "subsequently made/didn't make higher rank" distinction??

[charliegolf]

Any reason why some names are in italics

Because they failed to make air rank; or were not GD officers when they did. It says!

CG

[teeteringhead]

Because they failed to make air rank; or were not GD officers when they did. It says!

Wondered about that - in which case they're not up to date - by quite some years. Of recent incumbents, Wordley, McGeown and James all made one-star, and the latter is still serving (so might not have peaked!).

Of course, nowadays (IIRC) all one-star and above are "Common Air Rank List", so are no longer GD ............ so we'll never have GD Air Officers any more :(

[MPN11]

Interesting [or not] to note Mark Wordley, an ATCO*, commanding a major flying station. One presumes this was a 'tick the box' exercise before his elevation to 1*


* or should that be, in Army terminology, "(late ATC)"

[Danny42C]

teeteringhead,

"so we'll never have GD Air Officers any more" :(

Not to worry, it's always been a Pilot's Air Force, is a Pilot's Air Force, and will always be a Pilot's Air Force, so there ! :ok:

Danny.