Too Tall?......and what is an NCO?

[juswonnafly]

Just wondering if someone could answer this for me please

Is six feet 5 inches too tall for the RAF?

What is the difference between a commissioned officer and a non commissioned officer?


Many thanks

JWF

[teeteringhead]

I met a trucky nav once (many years ago) who was 6' 8". On meeting him, he would reply: "...and in answer to your next question, 5 foot 20!!"

[Chris Kebab]

Seems no problem for rotary.

Big John B-S must have been 6 5 if he was an inch.

Can certainly recall several truckie mates who were taller than me at 6 2.

Guess it all boils down to whether you fit training ac or not.

[Gen. Bombdabastards]

I suggest that you want to do a lot more research before you even think of applying. If you don't know what a NCO is then you obviously dont know much about the military.

[G.Khan]

Doesn't look as though too many people want to answer your question JWF, does it? I can understand why though, it is, after all, a very complex subject, often open to misunderstanding.

An NCO is the salt of the earth, backbone of whatever establishment he is in, a thoroughly all round nice bloke!

Should you decide to join up it will probably be an NCO that will greet you at the gate of the training establishment, with a hearty grin no doubt. The NCO will then show you to your room, show you where the bathroom and toilets are, show you your bed and may even help you unpack and stow your belongings, can't ask fairer than that , can you?

This same NCO will tell you about meal times, who your friends are and he may even enquire about the happy marital state of your parents, these guys are really nice. The NCO will escort you to meals and see you when you get back to your room to advise just what clothes you should wear for a parade, (a parade at this stage is a lose collection of you and your new friends).

On your first parade you may come accross an Officer , you can easily recognise one of these types as they seem to permenantly have a lump of **** under their nose! They will prance up and down your parade in any direction asking damn fool questions like, "are you enjoying it", "why did you join" and daftest of all, "why haven't you done that button up"! can you believe it! As if you would know anyway. Don't have any truck with this sort of nonsense, simply roll your eyes :rolleyes: and refer him to your ever present and friendly NCO, the Officer will soon go away.

PPRuNe is a vast forum of serving and ex military types who, I am sure, will all want to add their little piece about NCO's so I will now leave you in their hands, many of them are, or have been, NCO's or have first hand experiences of NCOs! How lucky you are to strike such a rich vein of experience.:D

[canberra]

no six foot five is not to tall. however you may find that you must fly rotary or heavies, the main reason is the length of the thigh bone depends whether or not your allowed to fly in aircraft with ejector seats. if the thigh bone is too long you can lose your legs if you eject and that can ruin your day! incidentally there was an raf pilot who was six eight!
there are three kinds of officer in the british forces comissioned warrant and non commisioned. a warrant officer holds the sovereigns warrant and in the army is usually called a sergeant major they are the backbone of the forces. an nco is anyone from lance cpl to staff sergeant , in the raf their called flight sergeants and the forces couldnt function without them i know i was one!

[Four Seven Eleven]

The things you really need to know about officers and NCOs:

1) If you are an officer, your NCOs will make or break you.

2) The CO is an officer. Despite anything you may read or be told, the next most important person on base is an NCO (the RSM, WOD etc.) The CO is an intelligent person. The CO trusts the RSM/WOD etc.

3)If you do not impress the senior NCO, you are in deep strife.

4) Even the most junior commissioned officer out-ranks the most senior NCO.

5) Any junior officer who believes that the above works in practice is DEAD.

6) Your NCOs are the singular most valuable resource you have available. They generally know the who, what, why, how and when of their unit.

7) When your Senior NCO "suggests" something, LISTEN. Having a senior NCO make a suggestion is like having an Air Marshall issue an order, only more serious.

Three anecdotes:

a) At Sandhurst, the King of Jordan was undertaking training, already ensconced as the Commander-In-Chief of the Jordanian Defence Force. During a drill session, His Majesty made a boo-boo. The RSM confronted the King and said: "Your Majesty is a very careless little king then isn't he!!!"

b) In a place and time, far, far away, young Pilot Officer 4711 attended his first squadron function in uniform. Faced with a 'mature' gentleman of obvious distinction, he sprang to his feet, and said: "Good Morning, Sir!", before noting the Warrant Officer insignia. A fine working relationship was immediately established. He laughed, so I immediately knew he had a sense of humour -he immediately knew I was a ********.

c) A few months later, newly promoted Flying Officer 4711 shares a tent with a Flight Sergeant who regales the young and impressionable officer with tales of the Sinai. 4711 counters with a few tales of other theatres of conflict. Result: Mutual respect and some very interesting lessons learned all around.

[Scud-U-Like]

Justwonnafly

Notwithstanding Four Seven Eleven's amusing and very enlightening post and some good advice from others, I suggest you look elsewhere for answers, before this thread turns into another puerile pi$$ing contest between a few officers and non-commissioned officers.

The level at which you join the Service is dependant on many factors, some within your control and some without.

As has already been suggested, you should do some research into the basic structure of the armed forces and the career paths available (www.mod.uk provides links to all the armed forces' official web sites). Once you've done this, use the search engine on this site to look for previous threads containing career advice and how best to prepare yourself for applying to join the armed forces.

Good luck

[JimNich]

Yup,

SUL has hit the nail on the head.

In reality, when it comes to those you trust, you will find that it matters not what you wear on your shoulder. Whatever rank you join at and whatever rank you attain:

Not all NCO's will be salts of the earth.

Not all Officers will be fair, capable leaders.

And not all the advice you are given (from either camp) will be good.

There's a really good story about a sparrow who forgets to fly south for the winter that I can't be bothered to type but it says it all.

And as the other guys say, do some research (and that's not the same as getting your mum or dad to do it)!

[Jackonicko]

Jim!

Tell us the Sparrow story, go on, do!

Jon

[juswonnafly]

Well Well Well !

I thought it was a perfectly civil question, but that seems to be the problem......Civil.

I was of the opinion that this forum would be read by proffessional military pilots with an interest in aviation and assisting others along the way.

Quite clearly I was wrong.

Like they say....'if you want something done, do it yourself!'

I was simply asking for a little help, I do apologise and promise not to trouble you again

JWF :D

[J.A.F.O.]

OOOOhh, get her!

It's quite simple - an officer will wash his hands after he has visited the bathroom, an NCO will remember not to pi$$ on them in the first place.

You really don't need to know much more than that.

[Jackonicko]

JWF,

Simmer down!

You got a civil reply to the height related question - since people clearly thought that this was a question which you'd find it hard to answer without help.

But for someone who professes to being interested in a military flying career not to know the difference between an officer and NCO would seem to mark you out as someone who perhaps could have done their homework just a little more thoroughly, and whose motivation and commitment might be suspect. Thus you got some gentle teasing.

Suggest you look up the following: Commission, NCO and Warrant.

In essence an officer hold's the Queen's Commission, a Warrant Officer the Queen's Warrant, and an NCO neither, beinmg placed in a lesser position of command by his superiors and not by the sovereign. Below NCOs, before you ask, are Airmen. Police Dogs and journos.

In the process, should you choose to do so, you'll have learned about an important military tradition - 'banter'.

[Talking Radalt]

Hmmm, judging by the :D and the tone of the reply, this sounds like a fishing trip!

[Dogstar]

JWF,

One side of military life you have just encountered is banter. Banter can sometimes seem harsh but it is part and parcel of being in the British Forces. As serving members of the forces you must be able to handle banter - it is often a humourous way of pointing out to a bloke where he is going wrong so that he can sort himself out in the future.
If you read through the above threads you will find that the guys have answered your questions and also given you some valuable advice which is to make sure that you do a load of homework before you apply to join up. The military will not even entertain the idea of admitting someone unless they can demonstrate that they have done the groundwork and that they are absolutely certain that being part of a military organisation is what they want to do.
I was once told that there is no such thing as a stupid question. You have done the right thing to ask, you have been given the answers along with load of banter. Learn from the banter - and if you can take it with good humour then you will probably be a good candidate for the military.


Good Luck with your research:)

[AceRimmer]

Ds,
You are correct. There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people!

[juswonnafly]

Well Gentleman (and Ladies).............

Thankyou for the replys, banter and humour taken on board....

However, I did not say this was for me, I was actually enquiring on behalf of my son. The question about height was for real, he is a tall geezer. The question about NCO etc was to see if someone could provide a detailed explanation (remember to civvies it is not so obvious) as to the definition of a commisioned officer.

Cheers anyway, no offence taken (and none meant)

JWF:)

[Muff Coupling]

Anoraks on...just to clear the the mystery of Warrant Officers..Warrant rank is merely a retention incentive:eek:

Yep...during the 1860s warrant rank was introduced as a result of a paper (yes they had blunties then) of evidence taken by the Royal Commission on Recruiting in 1866, that recommended... "some form of enhancement to the status and emoluments of senior non-commissioned officers as a retention incentive".

Now theres a thought...bring back WO pilots..and the retention problem goes away...think of all that money just wasted on FRI!!

So the RAF, circa April 1918, has the Army to thank for actually creating all WOs in our branch and trades.

JWF..my experience of WOs, especially Army ones, take careful note of everything they say and do..you will not get any better education on military life..ignore them at your peril!

Cheers Army:D