BA Executive Club- changes

[KLOS]

Apologies if this has been raised elsewhere

I have for a number of years done 5 returns ( economy) to TPA annually and historically at 35 tier poibts a flight it has given me Bronze/Ruby for 4 1/2 trips. I am not too bothered about the rewards- priority check- in and boarding ( I can wait) and free seat selection 7 days in advance (ok but not critical). The recent changes give 20 tier points a shot so to achieve the same status would require 7 1/2 trips or 6 via MIA (generally more expensive). As I say. I only travel 5 times so is the rationale to try and encourage people to buy premium econony etc I do enjoy the BA economy experience on this route ( very nice LGW crews) and it is adequate for my needs so just seems a bit petty . I thnk 44000 miles p/a for tenyears is a reasonable commitment to BA so....... thoughts?

[ExXB]

I gave up on BA a few years back due to their crappy customer service. Why not try connecting via Europe, you'll get the equivalent tier points for four sectors rather than two.

BA gets exactly what they deserve.

[KLOS]

Thanks for your response. As you say the result might be for people to give up on BA and choose a competitor. I am puzzled as to the rationale. I can't see what financial advantage is to BA unless they think the withdrawal of the 7 day free seat selection will make people pay 30 pounds to book a seat. I wouldn't.
I just think the goodwill cost is not worth whatever the imagined advantage. It is as though BA is seeking t fill the sort of negative customer stance which FR is purporting to abandon.:

[Hartington]

It doesn't matter which airline you're talking about changes to FF programs are constant. Occasionally they get more generous but mostly change leads to less generous "rewards".

[ExXB]

BA was always much more generous to 'sixth freedom' frequent flyers travelling via LHR than UK origin/destination passengers. This despite such passengers paying lower prices.

The same is true of AF, KL, LH, LX. Etc via their hubs.

[PAXboy]

I agree ExXB. A Stateside friend of mine used the direct service from DTW to LHR for many years. Always booked Y and got upgraded at check-in to C for 80% of the trips - both ways.

Last week a friend (regular traveller for an internationally known US based company) got jumped from Silver to Gold status, eventhough being a few points short of the target. They looked at the overall spend of the last couple of years and made the change without being asked. Not that BA would admit that so, as always, there are rules and rules ... :hmm:

[Ancient Observer]

Why are you looking for a logical response from any airline? Real people making real decisions based on real facts that they can articulate just does not happen in Aviation any more.
As to BA and awards, they have perfected the habit of being economical with the truth.
After my years of Gold they promised lifelong Silver. When they realised that the take up might be high, they dumped the offer.
Airlines 2 faced? surely not.........

[Globaliser]

The recent changes give 20 tier points a shot so to achieve the same status would require 7 1/2 trips or 6 via MIA (generally more expensive). As I say. I only travel 5 times so is the rationale to try and encourage people to buy premium econony etcRelatively few economy fares have had their TP earning reduced. On what you think of as a 35 TPs route, it's now been reduced to 20 TPs only if you buy in the three lowest/cheapest booking classes (Q, O and G - and there aren't that many public BA fares in G class anyway). Anything more expensive than Q class will still earn 35 TPs (or more). So you shouldn't have to buy up to premium economy to keep the TP earning up. You just need a fare in N class or higher.

[KLOS]

Globaliser,

Thanks for that .

Since the changes came in I have as far as I know been buying the same economy ticket as before so I was a bit puzzled. I looked on the ticket but I could not see the code. I did not think that there was anything other then an economy/ premium economy on this route. The drop downn menu gives nothing other than these two options. Am I missing something?

[Haven't a clue]

When you get to the screen from which you select your flight click on the flight number. The pop up box shows aircraft type and, right at the bottom, the selling class, which is price dependant. As Globaliser has said classes Q, O and G attract reduced their points.

My gripe is that when booking you are only offered the then current lowest fare. You can't opt for the "max reduced tier points" (if you see what I mean). On my regular "shuttle The difference between Q class earning 5 points and the next class N earning 10 points is only £6 which in tier point terms is excellent value.

[Captivep]

I may be misunderstanding what you've said but if I log in to the Exec club before booking I am given the options of:


Lowest Price (earning reduced Tier Points)


Lowest Price (earning full Tier Points)


Flexible Price (earning full Tier Points)

[Haven't a clue]

There are now two categories in the "reduced tier points" grouping. Taking domestic as an example:

Full fare, flexible or some semi flexible, earns 20 points, as does a domestic flight booked with a C/J or F/A connection

Cheaper inflexible fares (I have identified B, V and N but there may be others) earn 10 points

Very cheap inflexible fares (Q, O or G) earn 5 points

It's only after getting up the list of flights are you able to see the actual booking class offer, by clicking on the flight number.

[Heathrow Harry]

email today about changes to carry-on & boarding

Boarding the aircraft

We are changing the way you board your flight. Customers will now be invited to board based on the cabin they are travelling in and in order of Executive Club status. All of our other customers will be asked to board by seat row number. If you are travelling with an infant or are a customer who requires extra assistance, you will continue to be invited to board before everyone else.

Changes to hand baggage

In recent months we have seen an increase in customers travelling with hand baggage that exceeds their allowance. We always try to accommodate our customers where we can but to make sure the aircraft is ready to depart on time we are making the following changes:

• You can continue to carry 2 pieces of hand baggage. One bag should be a handbag/laptop sized bag which should now be no larger than 40x30x15cm.

• The size of your additional cabin bag remains unchanged and should be no larger than 56x45x25cm and can weigh up to 23kgs.

• Customers travelling in all cabins, except First and Club World will receive a yellow tag for handbag/laptop sized bags which are within the new dimensions. We guarantee that you can take this bag on board with you. Please have the tag visible for boarding and place the bag under the seat in front of you.

• We encourage you to carry any valuables or items such as medication in your handbag/laptop sized bag to ensure you have everything you need in the cabin.

• Customers who travel with hand baggage which is outside of their allowance will be asked to check this into the hold.

• On very busy flights we may have to ask some of our customers to check bags without yellow tags into the hold if the overhead lockers are full.

These changes will be rolling out across our network in the coming weeks and we will keep you up to date as and when this happens.

[Heathrow Harry]

Note:-

no mention of where you get the "Yellow tags"if you turn up with hand luggage only and are already checked in with a Boarding Card................ :ooh::ooh:

[Aksai Oiler]

It is not clear when these new boarding procedures will take effect, a few weeks could mean anything. 10 days ago I boarded the BA flight down to Malaga from Heathrow, connecting from Almaty and boarding was chaotic (as it has been on the 4 previous occasions in as many weeks) I will see what tomorrow brings, as I will only be travelling with hand baggage (incidentally one small knapsack), maybe I can be. Mr Grumpy and get a Yellow Card from BA...

[deep_south]

Who came up 40x30x15? I have a "standard" sized laptop with a 15.6" screen, and that is 38cm x 28cm before you put into a padded "slider", never mind a "proper" laptop or backpack type bag with padding?

And if you are in Y on a A380 in a seat with the IFE box, there is barely enough space for your feet never mind a bag as well!

No way that is going into the hold - so what happens if I refuse to let them do that? Do I get offloaded to a later flight, or just thrown out of the airport?

I guess if they do enforce these rules (that so many people ignore today) then there is little likelihood of them needing to put them in the hold... so it may all be a moot point.

[ExXB]

Deep South,
That indeed is a reduction in size for the first piece - seems they are adopting the new IATA standard ...

Trying to sneak it in with a bunch of other changes. Bar-stewards.

[Gince]

Harry I recently made a flight to Geneva from T5 at Heathrow and was handed a yellow tag at the entrance to security, two people one either side looking for people with 2 bags and giving them out

[Heathrow Harry]

excellent - I guess you can keep the tags and use them again.... :cool::cool:

[Haven't a clue]

The old standard was a "big" bag and another whose description included "a briefcase". For around 15 years I have gone long haul 4 times a year with BA in C or F. I used a slightly smaller "big" bag and something akin to said "briefcase" with laptop, business papers in it. I am usually surrounded with people carrying the same combination. There is plenty of room for everything. The position in Y is, I'm sure, different and that is where the problem lies. So why this change targeted at all classes of travel? It is guaranteed to p*ss off BA's premium pax no end.

There always seems to be enough room in European C as well. This change brings BA into line with EasyJet and thus, at a stroke, removes one of their USPs.

And I am still struggling to interpret the change to the boarding arrangements. Previous practice was Fast Track for F, C, and Executive Club. New practice is to board by cabin and in order of Executive Club status. So are they now going to call all F by status, then C by status, the Y by status? Or what? Speaking personally I pay a premium and expect to be sitting in my seat rather than spending an age in a queue. But maybe I am not a typical passenger.

I'm sure someone at BA has spent a lot of time determining that these changes are going to "improve the customer experience". I guess in doing so they got carried away and failed to consult their (premium) customers.

[Heathrow Harry]

It'll be a zoo and then gradually forgotten....................

[ExXB]

So how does it work with oneworld codeshares (BA metal, owc marketing)? Surely they are not going to refuse/charge for carryon that meets the marketing carriers rules, but not BAs!

What are they thinking? In some cases BA has antitrust immunity to doscuss/agree these things in connection with their joint ventures. But obviously they didn't (get agreement at least)

[Globaliser]

My gripe is that when booking you are only offered the then current lowest fare. You can't opt for the "max reduced tier points" (if you see what I mean). On my regular "shuttle The difference between Q class earning 5 points and the next class N earning 10 points is only £6 which in tier point terms is excellent value.Unfortunately, I think that with the current set-up, if you want N class (or higher within that band) when there are a valid fare and availability in G, O or Q class, you have to phone to book specifically into N class.

[Globaliser]

So how does it work with oneworld codeshares (BA metal, owc marketing)? Surely they are not going to refuse/charge for carryon that meets the marketing carriers rules, but not BAs!Cabin baggage limits have always been by the operating airline's rules, not the marketing airline's.

[Haven't a clue]

Globaliser thanks. A phone call means an offline service fee. Hmm.

Best maybe to delay booking, and then pick another carrier? Time to sell my IAG shares, I guess.

[ExXB]

Cabin baggage limits have always been by the operating airline's rules, not the marketing airline's.

Really? I think the US Department of Transportation disagrees with you.

See: DOT Issues Guidance on Airline Baggage Liability and Airline Responsibilities for Code-Share Flights | Holland & Knight (http://www.hklaw.com/publications/DOT-Issues-Guidance-on-Airline-Baggage-Liability-and-Airline-Responsibilities-for-Code-Share-Flights-06-02-2009/)

To paraphrase AA can not apply BA's rules on an AA marketed flight, where BA is the operating carrier, UNLESS AA discloses them in its rules tariff, contract of carriage, and website. - A statement that the 'operating carriers rules apply, without detailing any difference, is not acceptable.

All of BA's code share partners must disclose every term in which BA's rules differ from those of its code-share partners.

[Globaliser]

Really? I think the US Department of Transportation disagrees with you.

See: DOT Issues Guidance on Airline Baggage Liability and Airline Responsibilities for Code-Share Flights | Holland & Knight (http://www.hklaw.com/publications/DOT-Issues-Guidance-on-Airline-Baggage-Liability-and-Airline-Responsibilities-for-Code-Share-Flights-06-02-2009/)Do you have anything authoritative and up-to-date on this, and which specifically refers to cabin baggage?

What strikes me is that if the DOT thinks what you imply it thinks, it is odd that six years later AA is still allowed to have generalised statements on its website saying:-Tips for traveling on codeshare flights (https://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/codesharePartners/main.jsp?anchorLocation=DirectURL&title=codeshare)... Baggage policies differ between airlines and other charges may apply; check with the airline operating your flight for baggage informationCABIN BAGGAGE: (http://www.aa.com/i18n/customerService/customerCommitment/conditionsOfCarriage.jsp?anchorLocation=DirectURL&title=conditionsofcarriage) Passengers are usually permitted a free cabin baggage allowance, the limit of which may differ by airline, class, route, and/or aircraft type. It is recommended that cabin baggage be kept to a minimum. Please ask your travel agent or airline for more specific information. Refer to http://www.iata.org/bags for information and links to airline websites.At face value, those statements say exactly what I thought they said.

[Globaliser]

A phone call means an offline service fee. Hmm.Do you have a tame travel agent that wouldn't charge you a service fee? That might be another route.

[ExXB]

Globaliser,
Sorry - has taken a little while to track this down. One of the conditions to BA/AA/et al antitrust immunity (DOT-OST-2010-7-8 Final Order) is :

(4) The code-sharing operations conducted under this authority must comply with 14 CFR Part 257 and with any amendments to the Department's regulations concerning code-share arrangements that may be adopted. Notwithstanding any provisions in the contract between the carriers, our approval here is expressly conditioned upon the requirements that the subject foreign air transportation be sold in the name of the carrier holding out such service in computer reservation systems and elsewhere; that the carrier selling such transportation (i.e., the carrier shown on the ticket) accept responsibility for the entirety of the code share journey for all obligations established in its contract of carriage with the passenger; and that the passenger liability of the operating carrier be unaffected;


This in Appendix A of Regulations.gov (http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2002-13861-0099) (Sorry, you have to download a pdf from the Dockets management site.)

This, I believe is a restatement of DOT's previous 'guidance' I referred to below.

Now, does the reference to someone else's contract of carriage (without being specific) meet this requirement? IMHO it does not.

[Globaliser]

Now, does the reference to someone else's contract of carriage (without being specific) meet this requirement? IMHO it does not.But the important thing, surely, is what the DOT's opinion is.

We can see an established and continuing adoption of the practice that cabin baggage limitations are those set by the operating airline, and that the marketing carrier notifies customers and passengers of this by a generalised reference on the website.

We can see the DOT having been interested in certain issues connected with codeshare operations 6 years ago, and having approved this particular JB with the condition that you kindly drew attention to. The condition says nothing specifically about cabin baggage, let alone that the marketing airline's limitations apply unless expressly and specifically displaced. All the condition says is that the marketing airline must "accept responsibility" for the whole journey even if operated by other airlines; ie it can't shirk its contractual responsibilities by saying "we subcontracted this bit of your journey to someone else".

And we can presume that the DOT is not in dispute with the marketing airline about the practice of putting up a generalised statement about cabin baggage limitations being those of the operating airline. Otherwise, six years would surely have been enough for that to have been sorted out.

So it seems to me pretty clear that the DOT doesn't think there's any contravention of the requirement.

And even if, hypothetically, there were, it remains the case that the practice is that the operating airline's limitations apply.

[ExXB]

And even if, hypothetically, there were, it remains the case that the practice is that the operating airline's limitations apply.

Yet, your contract remains with the airline whose code you are booked under.

[Heathrow Harry]

you could always sue - or easier - just use another airline............

[Globaliser]

Yet, your contract remains with the airline whose code you are booked under.The contract may be with the marketing airline, but it's for carriage on the operating airline.

If and to the extent that the contract includes specifying the cabin baggage allowance, the contract provides that your cabin baggage allowance is that of the operating airline. The marketing airline has not promised you that you will get the cabin baggage allowance which would apply if you were to fly on a flight operated by the marketing airline.

The DOT's issue seems to be whether this (if it is a contract term) and other provisions similarly incorporated by reference are made sufficiently clear by a generalised statement by the marketing airline. Nowhere can I see any hint that the DOT considered that if the marketing airline sells a flight on a different operating airline, the marketing airline must promise you the same cabin baggage allowance as would apply if you were to fly on a flight operated by the marketing airline, regardless of the operating airline's limits.

That would just be wishful thinking.

[ExXB]

Well, here's a case where the ticketing airlines baggage rules apply even on other airlines.

Emirates launches new initiative to expand Americas travel options - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/emirates-launches-new-initiative-expand-americas-travel-options-601308.html?)

You'd be hard pressed to get two free bags any other way on Jet Blue, Alaska Airlines, Virgin America, WestJet Airlines or Porter Airlines.

[Heathrow Harry]

report back when you've tried it and it works............. :cool::cool::cool:

[PAXboy]

EZY have just changed cabin luggage rules, which has the fine smack of a tilt at the likes of the topic of this thread. I put the article in the EZY thread in AA&R.