"U have a PPL?: No sponsorship for you mate!"

[litkid_2000]

While reading my annually purchased, "Learn to Fly guide" in the Sunny Algarve, i was bemused to read in Clare Walker's article, "How to become an airline pilot", that, in some cases, a prospective student desiring sponsorship, who has a PPL, will be seen as a "hindrance" and be rejected.

What??? :eek:

Is this not absured? Will i now forget about getting my PPL? Would a PPL not show a genuine interest in aviation, and give you more of a chance?

does anyone know of such cases?

[kanga]

hi litkid,
having a ppl is an advantage, aside from showing your commitment and ability to apply yourself to a flying qualification, it makes your interview more predictable. instead of asking you about household items, lightbulbs, toasters and fridges they'll simply quiz you on everything in book4 of the thom series (yellow one) and clive hughes' "flying the big jets". so if you learn those inside out like you should have, it'll be a stroll. end of story.
don't panic. :)

[Autofly]

I don't know how true this is that I'm about to spout but I have heard that some airlines don't like taking PPL's with loads of hours. A PPL can only be an advantage to you like kanga says but with few hours (I mean like 150+) you start to pick up bad habits which can be hard to get you out of. I have heard this statement made in particular about the BA scheme. Like I say, whether it is true or not I don't know. I hope not!!!!

Autofly

PS - Kanga, just confirm that "flying the big jets" is by Clive Hughes and not Stanley Stewart??? Anyone else shed any light on this?

[ 24 July 2001: Message edited by: Autofly ]

[mac.haggis]

In reply to Autofly's shedding the light!
I have a copy of "Flying the big jets" and my copy is certainly by Stanley Stewart.A well recommended read.

[WGW]

'*Flying* the Big Jets' is by Stanley Stuart. '*Handling* the Big Jets' is by D. P. Davies. I bought the Stanley Stuart one in error, but would recommend it anyway - certainly gets you in that aviation spirit when you're on your way to an interview. D. P. Davies' is far more technical, aimed more at those that have been flying 737's for x years and are about to get their hands on a 747. No doubt excellent, but not one for us wannabes. At least, not till next year... :)

WGW

[schooner]

Have to disagree with you there WGW, 'Handling the Big Jets' by D. P. Davies is a great read for us Wannabees. Yes it is technical but don`t you want to know stuff like that ? It explains all the basic principles of jet aircraft; why jet engines are more efficient at higher altitudes, why wings are swept, different types of aquaplaning, all good stuff like that. I have no doubt that that book improved my technical knowledge enough to get sponsored earlier this year :D. I wasn`t afraid of any technical questions they might have thrown at me.
I`m sure 'Flying the Big Jets' by Stanley Stuart is a good book but I can`t recommend Handling the Big Jets enough ;).

OK, sales pitch over. I have roughly 30 hours of my PPL done and have been advised not to fly much more before training in case I have learned too many "bad" habits that I might be unable to shake off. Still, might sneak in a few hours if the weather permits, would hate to forget what its all about :confused:

cheers all

Schooner

[Lucifer]

PPL and minimal revalidation hours should be fine. UAS flying tends to be fine, but just going around hiring a plane every week building hours and not on a course of instruction could create problems for you.

Never get any more ratings beyond PPL, as this certainly is the type of possible bad habits that are unwanted. (UAS ratings excepted usually)

[AffirmBrest]

was that MAJOR european airline BA, by any chance?

Thay have somewhat different priorities when selecting candidates for sponsorship than other airlines - people DO get accepted for sponsorship who have PPLS/UAS experience but they have usually got a lot else to offer and are a pretty sharp bunch.

Don't delay getting your PPL ir doing some leisure flying if you can afford it just because one or two blokes were told that their rejection was to do with their PPL 'bad habits'.

Besides, there are several other airlines in the UK who sponsor and for whom a PPL or demonstratable interest in flying is a distinct advantage.

Do some research, look around a bit - don't be one of those who thinks because they didn't get sponsored by BA their flying career is over!

[Stratocaster]

WHAT ?

Since when does a shrink take decisions regarding flying skills ???? Does he know what he's talking about ? Did you do a sim check with him or is he just asuming you have bad habits ?

:mad:

[Autofly]

Just to add about the Stanley Stewart thing, "Fling the Big Jets" has been updated and being released in September.

Auto ;)

[Trislander]

What are you talking about???

Sponsorship from airlines such as Atlantic flight training, air 2000 and brit mid, etc require that you have a PPL BEFORE you start applying for sponsorship with them! It is only BA with whom for sponsorchip you do not require a PPL.

Go for it mate. Whatever happens, you will be better off with a PPL than not. If you do not get sponsorship for any reason then you can build on your PPL skills gaining a CPL and join the airlines direct entry.

Tri

------------------
http://www.aurigny.com/images.gb%20/trislander.jpg
"Ayline 221 airbourne"

[schooner]

Trislander...wrong.

None of the airlines that sponsor requirea PPL except the Cabair run KLM/British European schemes where you need at least 180 hrs when you start.
BA take people on with no hours and 100 hours. The other airlines that sponsor say that some experience of handling light aircraft would be advantageous....or words to that effect. I take it you haven`t applied to any yet, or you would know this already :rolleyes:

If you want to wait until you have a PPL before you apply to the sponsorship schemes then I am sure nobody here would object :p

Anyway, the general gist of this is that a few hours would not do you any harm but a PPL with 200 hrs and an IMC and night rating would be a bit too much :D :D

cheers

Schooner

[kanga]

next time i'll check the cover of the book before i post... :)

just as everyone was beginning to agree on "not flying too many hours and minimum ratings" i've got another variable, i met a guy attending the same interviews i was and not only did he have a ppl, but he also had a CPL! not JAR though, so they (airline) suggested that he enter the cadetship interviews instead of the direct entry ones.

[Token Bird]

Schooner,

Almost correct - Air Atlantique also require a PPL and 100 TT. But you are right - BA, BM, Air2000 and Airtours do not require one.

[schooner]

Doh !! Knew I had forgotten one :rolleyes:

cheers

[Pandora]

Aaargh, how many times do I have to say this - having a PPL and over 100hrs is not going to be the thing that stops you getting on a cadet scheme. It didn't stop me and it didn't stop the other person on my course who had a PPL, night and IMC rating. (BA by the way). It took me 13 months from applying to being recruited. Do you think they want to hear you say 'I didn't express too much of an interest in flying during the last year in case you didn't want me'?

People on this forum tend to spout a magic number of hours above which they will not get in. Can anyone tell me where these numbers came from, or are they just 'they didn't want me and I've got 67hrs, so 65hrs must be the cut off point.'

[Barney]

Just to put in MTPW.

You do not need a PPL for the bmi british midland or BA sponsorship scheme. In fact, you don't even need any flying at all for BA, whereas bmi do prefer 'some experience of handling light aircraft'.

On another point, I would say that you would be in for a very hard time at the bmi sponsorship interview if you had not read 'Handling the Big Jets' or 'Flying the Big Jets' from cover to cover at least once. Their interview is totally different to BA as they will quiz you in depth on the technical aspects of general and commercial aviation.

Regards

Barney

[Token Bird]

The best thing to do is just train at the pace you want and don't worry too much about if you're gonna miss out on sponsorships. For example, if you start applying young to the BA scheme, say 21, and you repeatedly fail to get it, then it'll look worse and worse as the years go by that you don't have any flying experience. The when you get to 27 and you've failed BA for the last possible time, you've wasted 6 years you could've been flying!

If you train at the pace suitable for you, then you may miss out on some schemes (if it is indeed true that BA don't like you to have too many hours), but you will then become suitable for other schemes such as the Air Atlantique scheme (100 TT) and the KLMuk/Cabair scheme (180TT).

[schooner]

Pandora,
I think that some of the numbers put forth are educated guesses. Mine were based somewhat on the BA cadet websites on the Oxford site here (http://www.geocities.com/oxford195/viewer.htm) and here (http://www.ap191.com/backgnd.htm) and what I have learned from other cadets.

The majority of cadets have less than 100 hours tt. I think that 200 hours , a night and IMC rating are definately the upper limit, if not the exception to the rule.

But, as you have shown, it can be done. Anyway, those are my thoughts :confused: .

cheers all

Schooner

PS, Barney, will I be seeing you on Saturday ?

[ 26 July 2001: Message edited by: schooner ]

[NewBloke]

I hope I don't disillusion anyone and wish to let you know I do not claim to know the exact details of acceptable hours. However, whilst at Cranebank 2 years ago, this topic entered the discussion with invigilators/BA reps etc.. at lunchtime. I can categorically say that the response from one lady/invigillator was that ".... It would be incredibly difficult for someone to get on the scheme with say 150 hours. That really is too much experience for this sort of scheme...". She did not however say it was impossible, and did not state an exact figure - but clearly you must not gain too many hours if you wish to get sponsored, and there is obviously some sort of limit. As Frustrating/ridiculous you think this may be (or not !?!), I'd be wary if you are dead set on sponsorship of how many hours you obtain.