Virgin Atlantic - Up In The Air

[Tight Accountant]

I appreciate that this may not be the correct forum but I wished to share some observations. I was watching the the Virgin Atlantic - Up In The Air quasi documentary on ITV (UK) last night and was simply flabbergasted at the cost of everything, e.g. £100-150K for one Upper Class seat. Then there was no expense spared on the 'Runway' guide for inflight staff to dress appropriately. And then the lucky Virgin who were selected to attend the photo-shoot for the 'Runway' magazine were called internationally rather than emailed. I appreciate there is VOIP these days and the cost is miniscule but given the airline lost £51m last year, has 38 aircraft and 9,000 staff, operating costs don't seem to be under control. Has the growth of the Middle Eastern carriers preciptated an 'inflight luxury race to the top' type scenario? I would be interested to read other contributors thoughts.

[lomapaseo]

Would you rather they toned it down to RyanAir standards?

[ExXB]

Getting passengers to fly with you is complicated.

For the guys sitting in the pointy end schedule is probably the most important (both outbound and return), frequency (and ability to change) is probably next. Then comfort and amenities on board would follow. Frequent Flyer benefits will be in this list as well, but difficult to quantify. Price, while important, probably is less important than the above.

VS often has multiple competitors on it's most important business routes. They likely find it very difficult to compete on schedules, frequency and FF benefits. Competing on comfort and amenities would be very difficult in the DXB market, less difficult on US routes.

So I would imagine they must spend heavily on C&A. The costs may be high but the returns can be substantial.

[highflyer40]

It's not just them spending that type of money on seats, that will be the going cost of the seat.

By the time you factor in certification, styling, redundancy, materials, and manufacturing as well as whatever else I missed that will be pretty much what everyone is spending.

[El Bunto]

VS often has multiple competitors on it's most important business routes

Which is probably because Virgin only flies routes that are already near saturation...

Have they ever pioneered a new route? I can't think of one. They usually wait until several other airlines have proven a route and then pile in on top.

[Peter47]

I think that they were first to Las Vegas (8th June 2000).

Also ahead of the game out of Manchester & Glasgow.

Essentially though you are correct El Bunto.

Checking seat guru, VS flights tend to have a lower proportion of seating devoted to premium than BA (although of course load factor may be higher in premium - I don't know). The money comes from the front of the plane but VS's strength is more in the leisure market which may be its problem - and it is trying to fix.

It will be interesting to see what effect the deal with DL has as their combined frequencies are now reasonably competitive on some routes. I don't know what effect having two very different brands has and if someone who has booked expecting VS will be disappointed if they find themselves flying DL & vice versa, although that is a wider problem with all code shares (AA with it 15 flights a day between NYC & LON, etc).

[PAXboy]

My guess is that the number of companies that design and make airlines seats are very few, also, the client base is highly limited as many legacy carriers have gone. So, in a narrow market - prices will always be artificially high. There will be more competition for the Y seats as you can sell more of those.

I thought the programe very routine and the new uniform? The working 'apron' or whatever it is for the women looked dammed stupid and impractical. But then, I don't mind what the CC are wearing, as long as it's clean.

[vctenderness]

I seem to remember that when BA reintroduced microwave ovens ( yes they had them on the original 747 classic) the cost was around £50k per oven!

Now you can buy a pretty reasonable microwave oven in the UK for under £100 so the cost was on the certification process I guess.

Shortly after fitting one crew member blew one up and the excrement really hit the fan. Not the oven fan I hasten to add:)

[Ancient Observer]

Most things on planes are NOT subject to certification. Suppliers just charge the most they can get away with. Wouldn't you?

[lakerman]

I would really like to know, after 50 years in the industry, what you think of as an item on an aircraft that does not require certification.

[PAXboy]

Watching last night's edition, they were having a wine and champagne tasting due to the 787 cabin pressure affecting the bubbles differently. I was amused to hear the head of marketing say: "The cabin pressure in the 787 is lower than in other aircraft ..." That might surprise one or two of Boeing's finest ...

[TCAS FAN]

Tight Accountant

Hopefully the vast sums of money spent on seats will be a quantum leap forward from the crap that they currently have in Upper on the A330s. These seats are light years behind the comfort afforded in Upper on the B744s.

The A330 seats are very narrow (compared with the B744s), have an arm rest on one side only and should you wish to dine with someone, an ottoman that you will need to have a size 0 backside to fit into.

I keep an open mind about the 787, I'll try it once, and if it doesn't deliver on all the hype (including the expensive seats) I'll be off to try the delights of other carriers.

[PAXboy]

Those that have reported in these forum have (as I recall) mostly said, 'I didn't feel any different on the flight - but did not feel as bad after a long haul'.

There are a couple of threads in here that could be searched for and, I think, in the AA&R forum.

[Ancient Observer]

Kettles are not certified. Cutlery, crockery, glasses etc etc are not certified.

[spannersatcx]

Kettles are not certified They most certainly are.

[crewmeal]

If my memory serves me static items on an aircraft have to be certified everything to magazine racks to loos. Non static items such as trolleys, cutlery, plates manuals etc don't.

[InSeat19c]

Whatever Virgin Atlantic does spend its money on, it certainly isn't salaries if the basic is £12,500 for new cabin crew!