Well CASA, what is your enforced response?

[ratpoison]

Typically, the thread on ‘QF Captain was feeling low…’ has gone way off topic.

The fact is, what is the pi**weak joke of a “regulator” doing about this?

Quite worrying, the “folk” from Jetstar have agreed to and implemented in their EBA for domestic operations that NO food be provided by the airline. This was also negotiated and backed by the “folk’s” equally pi**weak unions. Well done!!:D

Add to the very fact that these “folk” are doing horrendously long duties on an appalling CAO 48 Exemption, four sectors and 25min turnarounds and on each sector dealing with an inept and incompetent “system”.

Now that a serious incident has occurred, how CASA and the ATSB continue to allow this deplorable situation of an airline negating their responsibilities of ensuring and PROVIDING pilots FREE OF CHARGE with appropriate sustenance during their duties completely defies belief. Even more unbelievable is that AIPA, AFAP and the “folk” themselves agreed to this.

It will be interesting to see whether CASA, the mighty and honourable “Regulator”, continue to permit this proven dangerous policy of not providing appropriate sustenance to crew due to “negotiated agreements”. :ugh::ugh:

[wobblepump]

Totally agree ratpoison!
It stands to reason that we will see more of these types of incidences because of this negotiated EBA....companies relinquishing their duty of care.
Come on CASA, you found some contributing cause, act on it.

[Madame Bandit]

Rat……

NOTHING will be done as blatant nepotism and corruption must follow a designated path. This path is the ol ‘jobs for the boys’ by which the “folk” as you allude to are well acquainted with.
Members of a particular regulator make favourable outcomes for a particular operator. Then after some time of back hand under the table, nudge nudge, wink wink, such members are graciously rewarded with senior flight operations positions in said particular airline. Thus, a serious conflict of interest is ignored, covered up or arrogantly shoved in the face of staff and public.
Yes, it will be very interesting indeed to see what legal litigation will ensue on particular airlines, regulators and individuals who persist on continuing such dangerous policies when such policies have contributed to a serious near accident and such contribution has been confirmed by a particular regulator as a major cause.
It will also be very interesting in the not to distant future when a particular freelance journalist and international blogger will release a swathe of corrupt and unethical conduct that has occurred over many years which involves a particular regulator, politicians and three airlines. The 362 page script which reads like an Agatha Christie novel, has also taken the interest of a particular legal individual who headed a particular inquiry into corrupt and unethical conduct in a certain police force many years ago. Now, did we not see some interesting heads roll from that one. :p

Patience Rat, as you will soon see an old saying come to pass:
“For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all”.

[Lookleft]

So the logic is that CASA should investigate Jetstar because it doesn't provide food to its pilots (NB pilots WB still get food), because a Qantas aircraft went way below profile even thought that airline provides food to its pilots? The reality is pilots in Jetstar are not suffering malnutrition, most are happy to bring there own food and poor SA and crew coordination can occur in even the best of airlines regardless of EBA and cultural background. A similar event occurred in Jetstar but that was when the EBA required the airline to provide adequate sustenance. Whatever barrow you are pushing it doesn't seem to be kept rolling by the facts.

[ratpoison]

The logic is when you read something, try and comprehend it. There is no "barrow pushing" whatsoever.

The incident you refer to may be the moronic implemented toga tap which was initially covered up until exposed or the continuous QNH incidents which is no doubt FATIGUE related. Fatigue, what fatigue! "There is no fatigue issues, it's tiredness".

When CASA approve and condones an operation where safety and duty of care is allowed to be negotiated in an employment contract, then that Lookleft is of a serious concern.

[The Green Goblin]

Some of you qantas boys really must be smoking the funny stuff in California.

A Qantas aircraft has an incident, and it's the fact that Jetstar pilots voted for an increase in their conditions which excludes crew meals that is to blame?

Unbelievable.

That's a bloody long bow you're drawing.

I think some people need a hobby outside aviation.

[wobblepump]

Look left,
The "fact" is that the regulator found that lack of food was a major contributor to the incidence.
The "barrow" to push is that the regulator legislates that companies provide the crew with sustenance before they all jump on the band wagon and follow Jetstar's lead on this issue.
I, like ratpoison, am appalled that Jetstar pilots and their union negotiated their meals out of their EBA.

[Ollie Onion]

But what does the Qantas 330 incident have to do with Jetstar? Right or wrong the new EBA at Jetstar and their exemption to CAO 48 has nothing to do with this incident.

[wombat watcher]

wobble pump,
I could have sworn that the CAOs state that the pilot shall have sufficient rest, be fit, have sufficient sustenance before commencing a flight blah blah blah. I can't recall any words saying that the employer must provide food FOC and I can't recall any words saying that the pilot is prohibited from buying food or taking his own food on board to meet the CAO prescription.

[Madame Bandit]

Ratpoison,

Forget blowing and wasting the trumpet on Prune my friend. It’s a waste of effort as you know doubt can see from responses.
Go to that site I PM’d you a few months back and after the .com type /atsba345/
It will give you a link to the PDF and read page 159. Take particular note of the names on page 162 and the influence that a small number of people had 2 days after a particular B744 arrived in SYD.
Truly a frightening read that Mikail has written with factual evidence. But when a particular company in the say…Middle East area….. sponsors horse races, yachting gigs and the like, then such influences regarding the outcome of an investigation take on a certain priority. The airline response was to sack the drivers suffering from chronic fatigue and sickness, then punish the rest of the poor bast**ds with a massive increase of base hours on the same pay and less days off. :D:D:D

There is a link on page 312 down the bottom which takes one to a site where all this is being exposed in Europe and UK regarding corruption and unethical conduct of particular “aviation practices” in a southern hemispherical country. The read from Chapter 3 onwards will make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

[Lookleft]

The "fact" is that the regulator found that lack of food was a major contributor to the incidence.

Wrong on several levels. The ATSB is not the regulator and only found that the PIC had not eaten anything during the duty. I don't recall the report stating that it was a major factor and if anything suggested the research was inconclusive. The other fact is that there were two pilots on that flight deck and only one had not eaten. There isn't any real analysis of what the PNF was doing other than uttering two words and attending to "cockpit tasks".

The "barrow" to push is that the regulator legislates that companies provide the crew with sustenance before they all jump on the band wagon and follow Jetstar's lead on this issue.

I think it states that adequate sustenance shall be provided, it doesn't state that is the airlines responsibility. BTW Tiger haven't been providing crew food for a lot longer than Jetstar. The Company still provides adequate sustenance to its WB pilots so your hysterics are not factually based.


The incident you refer to may be the moronic implemented toga tap which was initially covered up until exposed

No I'm not and no it wasn't. I'm referring to a similar incident to the A330 but the Jetstar crew got a "Too Low Gear" warning. Crew did the same thing though which suggests that the training at both airlines provides crews with the appropriate response to an EGPWS.

[4 Holer]

Why do QF no get grounded like Tiger etc for lesser "events"

Typical Skippies, but typical of people living on an island …..