Helipads - round or square?

[Squawk7700]

I was mindlessly driving along the other day thinking about this....

Are the majority or landing pads round or square?

Is there a reason why they are seemingly often round? Is that a design element to do with rotor-wash?

eg. Hospital landing pads, ships, oil rigs etc. I'm referring to raised pads, versus ground level.

[grumpytroll]

Bottom line is that building/constructing most anything is easier and cheaper if it is square as opposed to round. Not only the pad itself but the underlying support structure. I have seen very few round landing pads. The ones I have seen that are round are generally painted round shapes on the ground or painted onto a squarely constructed structure. I have seen some round and lovely rooftop pads. They look nice.

Cheers

[John Eacott]

I've no idea how the majority are shaped, but I strongly favour round helipads. The anal compunction of some drivers to align their machines (especially skid equipped) with the edge of a square pad regardless of the wind direction is notable. Back in 1984 I managed to have the pad at Albion Park painted as a circle for this very reason, and I noted last time that I was there it is still a circle!

Dancing around with a 20kt crosswind trying to line up with deck edges is daft, IMO. Or even plonking the skids along the lines of the 'H' :hmm:

[Flyting]

Here by me it's a mix, and looking at it, it looks as if it was decided according to the building design underneath the pad.

...and as for...
The anal compunction of some drivers to align their machines (especially skid equipped) with the edge of a square pad regardless of the wind direction is notable.
I looked underneath some of them and all the strong structure support is in the middle of the pad and not at the sides. The pad is designed for ONE helicopter (CAT A) at a time, so be carefull where you park your bus...

[TheiC]

A square pad provides much better close-in visual cues for control in yaw. This doesn't mean you have to put the skids parallel with the edges. In a feature-rich environment, it may not matter, but in isolation (top of a building in haze etc) it could be important. From a purely aesthetic point of view, I like hexagons.

[ShyTorque]

The one at LHR is triangular. Now how confusing is that? :ooh:

Seriously, though, it's not a big issue what shape it is.

[diginagain]

The one at my current place of work is octagonal, as were the last three or four.

[TheiC]

It just occurs to me: if it's pentagonal, what will the OCD-suffering parallel-skid brigade make of it?

[jimf671]

I've no idea how the majority are shaped, but I strongly favour round helipads. The anal compunction of some drivers to align their machines (especially skid equipped) with the edge of a square pad regardless of the wind direction is notable. Back in 1984 I managed to have the pad at Albion Park painted as a circle for this very reason, and I noted last time that I was there it is still a circle!

Dancing around with a 20kt crosswind trying to line up with deck edges is daft, IMO. Or even plonking the skids along the lines of the 'H' :hmm:


A square pad provides much better close-in visual cues for control in yaw. This doesn't mean you have to put the skids parallel with the edges. In a feature-rich environment, it may not matter, but in isolation (top of a building in haze etc) it could be important. From a purely aesthetic point of view, I like hexagons.


Planning for redevelopment of a helipad soon. It is definitely in a 'feature-rich environment', so round it is then. :ok:


(Not that I'm saying the guys are anal!)

[SilsoeSid]

Shytorque;

The one at LHR is triangular. Now how confusing is that? :ooh:


I hope you will read the AIP before parking there, as the triangle you are referring to is a helicopter aiming point located on a taxiway area :ugh:


EGLL AD 2.20 Para 5 (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-B7679156EF6FFB8CF98B589AC340E7C7/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/AIP/AD/EG_AD_2_EGLL_en_2015-06-25.pdf) :ok:

5. Helicopter Operations
.
.
ii. The helicopter aiming point is located on the taxiway area east of Link 43. It is marked with an 18 m sided triangle with a conventional 'H'. This aiming point is lit and available for use throughout operational hours. The take-off and climb surface has been protected to 8% to the east and west of the aiming point (see Chart AD 2-EGLL-4-1).

iii. Caution must be exercised when using this aiming point which is on a live taxiway.

iv. Helicopters alighting at the aiming point will ground or air-taxi to the parking areas as directed by ATC.

v. In circumstances as detailed in AD 2.22, Flight procedures, paragraph 9, visual separation will be applied whilst the helicopter is in transit between the holding point and the helicopter aiming point. In all other circumstances, standard separation will be applied.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/EGLL%201_zpsynzvququ.png

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/EGLL%202_zpst8az8c0p.png

[Um... lifting...]

Indifferent as to what shape they may be, but one prefers them flat on the top.

[jimf671]

... one prefers them flat on the top.


Noted. :ok:

[Vertical Freedom]

I want a Star to land on :eek: a Gold Star :ouch:

[ShyTorque]

Sid Said:

I hope you will read the AIP before parking there, as the triangle you are referring to is a helicopter aiming point located on a taxiway area :ugh:
No-one mentioned parking on the triangle at LHR because no-one can, but although it's known as the "HAP" it is surprisingly the only helipad at that airfield. I land there probably more often than most (now at about £4500 a pop, not many folk bother). Arriving helicopters are held off to the south of the airfield by ATC until the taxiways are clear. After landing, helicopters are directed to taxi away behind the "follow me" vehicle. We normally park on the Royal suite, although sometimes other stands are used. Departing VFR helicopters are required to taxi back to the HAP, which is much better than having to join the queue for the main runway, as we always had to do by night some years ago.

[SilsoeSid]

So, the original question was; "Are the majority or landing pads round or square? ... I'm referring to raised pads, verus ground level."


After many posts about aligning machines with pad edges & 'H' markings and mention of multi parking on the pads, Shyt answers with, "The one at LHR is triangular. Now how confusing is that? :ooh:"

Very confusing especial as it is at ground level, glad my link was useful though ;)


We'll ignore the remark; "… it is surprisingly the only helipad at that (LHR) airfield."

[John R81]

Mine is round because.... When I built it, that's what the excavator shovel could reach. Size & shape therefore determined by the deigners of the Volvo 25 Excavator.

Just like train track dimension was determined by the width of 2 horses bums. (Strange, but true)

[TRC]

......... was determined by the width of 2 horses bums. (Strange, but true) You must have some skinny horses.
It is supposed to originate from the required distance - track - between the wheels of a cart to allow enough room for a horse to fit between the shafts.

[ShyTorque]

Very confusing especial as it is at ground level, glad my link was useful though

You're easily confused then, Sid and as usual, a legend in your own tea break.

Feeling the need to big yourself up again? :rolleyes:

[SilsoeSid]

Shyt, reread the post you quoted from please.

It was you that was confused about triangles in the first place.
Embarrassed about being caught out about the detail of the LHR triangle and now trying in vain to dig yourself out by any chance!

Bigging myself up! Far from it, just getting the facts right.
Thing is, I know my place, as lowly as it may be to you, while you keep having to tell us yours.

[whoknows idont]

Excellent thread so far! :ok:

[Self loading bear]

Excellent threat so far! :ok:

Excellent indeed
I think John R81 only made one misspelling: 2 horse_ bums.
That would leave space for VF's Star in the middle!
I do not want to upset anybody by raising the topic or the helipad again but did one think about it that
a triangular pad would actually give 6 directions to neatly park your heli?
(and a square pad only 4)

Cheers SLB

[John R81]

TRC


Much the same thing. I didn't mean that the width was that of 2 horses bums, but it is determined in relation to two horses bums. Roman chariots - as I understood it - were the start. Hence 2 horses with a single shaft between them. The chariots create wheel ruts, and all carts were therefore built to the same dimension because not running in the ruts would likely break your wheel. Then carriage makers were the first to create railway carriages and they simply put the wheels in the same place.


Anyway, its so nice an idea that I want to believe it is true. I think I saw it on a program years ago, which (again, I think) was called "Connections" presented by James Burke.


(you spell it your way, I'll spell it wrongly)

[SilsoeSid]

... did one think about it that a triangular pad would actually give 6 directions to neatly park your heli? (and a square pad only 4)


Shirley based on the six neat parking directions on a triangular pad theory, a square pad would give eight. Overall a circle must be the best in the neat parking stakes, providing >360 neat parking directions.

Aaaah! circle, square, cross, triangle, house :eek:

http://www.porthosp.nhs.uk/getimage.aspx.ID-270283.jpg

[ShyTorque]

Thing is, it really doesn't matter too much what shape the actual helipad is, be it round, square, triangular or just an "H" marked on the surface.

Sid, did you really think I was confused by a triangular landing marking? Did you not read or understand my second paragraph (the one that begins
"Seriously though...."), or did you just deliberately choose to ignore it?

And seriously, do you really believe that any professional helicopter pilot regularly operating out of UK's busiest airport could do so without reading the relevant AIP entry before? By the way, the first photo of LHR you posted is very much out of date (Yes, I know it's a cut and paste from Google earth). ;)

[mdovey]

SiloeSid, no - a square pad only gives 4 different directions, as parking parallel to the left hand side of the square is co-incident with parking parallel to the right hand side of the square (assuming you park in the centre).

In general, for a n-sided polygon shaped helipad, the possible (neat i.e. parallel to a side) parking directions are:

n (if n is odd)
n/2 (if n is even)

Matthew

[ShyTorque]

Matthew, according to the compass in most helicopters (and provided the space is big enough), any helipad has 360 different parking directions...

[SilsoeSid]

Shyte, I find myself agreeing with ShyT :eek:

Matt, some of us may consider neat parking withing a square pad to include the nose/tail being aligned with the pointy bits, ie diagon alley.:ok:

[whoknows idont]

Now we are going in circles, no pun intended.

[krypton_john]

Jeez, in NZ a helipad is any patch of flat ground without a lamp post, tree or pointy rock in it.

[jimf671]

Jeez, in NZ a helipad is any patch of flat ground without a lamp post, tree or pointy rock in it.

Rotorhead post of the week!


(Can't wait to hear the NZ definition of 'flat' though!)

[handysnaks]

Jim, I believe that flat in NZ is described as any area that you can get intimate with a sheep without it rolling away! ;)

[Romeopapa]

Some of you guys need to get real and check out Vertical Freedom and his helipads:ok:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/483614-top-world-photos-nepal-151.html

More to flying than a white shirt or a blue jersey and some epaulettes.

[Rotate too late]

Yeah, it's fair to say he's got some real swingers no doubt! :ok:

[krypton_john]

Snaks, old son, not sure what sort of perversion you're insinuating there, but only dead sheep roll away. Live sheep are stable with a lateral slope of up to 10 degrees.

Or was that the Jetranger? Mind's a bit woolly these days.