Calling redundant WSOps and WSOs!

[downsizer]

So have any WSOps or WSOs who were made redundant post SDSR '10 had any feelers from the RAF yet? Heard a snippet today that this may be about to happen....

Personally I'd tell them to poke it, can't imagine many would want to come back.:\

[Door Slider]

They must be getting worried given the number of people offered PA this year.

[Biggus]

Presumably 5 odd years on most of those involved will have found new careers, settled in new locations, etc, and what can the RAF offer in terms of longevity of career?

I believe one of the issues is shortage of GR4 WSOs, surely if you can persuade anyone to rejoin they have the prospect of only 5 odd years of the aircraft still being in service?

[downsizer]

I thought it might be more related to a (hopefully) new platform....

[Avtur]

A good number were Nimrod aircrew so maybe they want P8 crews? I doubt their offer (T&Cs) would be that attractive to lure many folk back.

[1.3VStall]

It makes I laarrff!

A number of years ago, those at the sharp end told the VSOs not to shut off Nav training. Why? Because OSDs always slip to the right and the RAF would catch a cold.

Funny old thing, that is now happening with the GR4 and - surprise, surprise - they are critically short of Navs, to the extent that they are re-recruiting well-known, back seat drongos, which the RAF was more than happy to get rid of of some years ago.

Life is certainly better on the outside looking in!:)

[Just This Once...]

The first few have already started.

[downsizer]

Any WSOps had an offer?

[Pontius Navigator]

In the late '80s it was almost the norm for people leaving at 38 to rejoin a few years later for BSA. Now, with CEA being a rarity, and possibly not Service to 55 what is the attraction?

[Biggus]

The sense of feeling valued? :hmm:

[ValMORNA]

FWIW, I understand from a contact that GCHQ is now recruiting 'Radio Staff', for which read 'Electronic Wizards'. If applicable it could be a new career in which Service time adds to Civil Service pension.


But don't quote me on this - I don't have chapter and verse.

[camelspyyder]

Met one yesterday who's back in, having been redunded post SDSR.

[QTRZulu]

Personally, I cannot wait for my phone call/letter/email just so I can tell them to ram it. Once bitten twice shy and all that and as others have said, there is little they can offer to tempt me back in. The Air Force I joined in 1988 is long gone and the one I left in 2011 had little going for it when I departed and I seriously doubt it has improved in the last 4 to 5 years!

Still I can see why for some who didn't apply for or want redundancy, they may give it some serious thought if approached.

[MG]

I PVR'd and left last year. I'm not holding my breath on that phone call!

[Professor Plum]

Camelspyder,

What has he/she been drinking? :cool:

[Pontius Navigator]

Val, IIRC, all I got was the higher annual holiday allowance and started a new pension . Roughly the CS pension, rank for rank, is about 15-20% less but then I was spec aircrew.

[Pontius Navigator]

PP, some people may like it.

Me, I liked it,but I don't know how I found time to squeeze work in.

[O-P]

Just wondering what the ToS are? Do they have to pay back any redundancy money, what is the seniority, promotion prospects?

[Janda]

I am looking for a job. Left the RAF in 94 having served 24 years as an AEO/Op. Am only 62 so have I a chance:D. Oh I also live in New Zealand.;)

[The Old Fat One]

^^ You can **** off to the back of the queue pal. I'm 58 and already living in the people's republic of nicolastan. I scored 3 DCS in 2 minutes on my last beep test and the local garage reckon they can cut'n'shut two best blues into one tent-sized close fitting garment once they have steam cleaned the smell of p1ss out of them.

I'll work for keep, assuming full breakfast allowance, hire cars, single rooms and a lifetime pass to hooters.

I'm good to go as long as you don't want me to fly on weekends, bank holidays, or after 4pm on a Friday (I'm ex 42, so no change there then)

[AdLib]

Thank you OFO.

That's the single best post I've read in the last Christ knows how many years of Pprune mediocrity.

[Janda]

Now thats not very nice TOFO I am sure there is more than enough jobs for both of us. Unless of course those DCS have migrated to your waist. I was on 201 one of the working squadrons so understand your requirements re working sorry non working hours.;):)

[Pontius Navigator]

Janda, although ex201 I am with OFO with the additions of no secondary duties, no duty officer etc (let the young thrusters get the full benefit of the learning opportunities).

No working weekends to please the ungrateful unwashed.

To no hooters I would add no practise bleeding. I never needed to spend hours in an NBC suit and respirator to know it was uncomfortable.

I would like to be asked if I would do something, like the Dutch, rather than shafted.

In my last week in the Air Force a prat put me on nights! Told him where to put it. Sadly night flying was cancelled.

[AQAfive]

Janda

Be careful what you wish for...:hmm:

[Four Types]

Retired 2 years ago....loving it! Busy doing what I want to do. No Airshows, no Gas Masks, no AOCs, no bullsh*t. I have kept some uniform in the cupboard but mainly as a happy reminder that I don't have to wear it anymore.


I did meet a Sqn Ldr chap recently who was offered service to 60 and moved onto PA Spine even though he is in a desk job and will never fly again!


As for getting an pound of flesh.....In my last few months in I was giving the task of hosting a 3-star visit! Nice chap though and it was quite relaxed.


As I never fail to mention to all my working friends...."Every day is a Saturday!"...

[Janda]

Thinking about it more I suppose the 30plus hour commute may be a bit of a drawback. However, I could easily be available for all the sunny climate detachments where hotels are included. But not for the ones where camping gear provided.

[bluetail]

On one of the Kipper Fleet FB pages there are some already claiming that they have already been approached to come back, and its not just for maritime positions, T&Cs same as when they were forced to leave which is having cause for amusement. Many are saying that they are just waiting for the call (if it ever comes) to say "Shove it".

[The Old Fat One]

^^

That's a no brainer. We are talking talented guys and girls who had to go through a pretty torrid time to reinvent themselves. People who can, and do, do that, never look back.

There will be a few for whom it would make sense - older, well set, up semi-retired guys who live locally for example. Maybe some of the younger peeps chasing the dream who never really got started.

All this is (if it is true) is casting a very wide net in the hope of catching one or two fish to bolster experience. The manning bods will know that.

[Biggus]

TOFO,

You say... "There will be a few for whom it would make sense - older, well set, up semi-retired guys who live locally for example". Live locally to where I would ask?

Since you seem to be responding to "bluetails" post referring to ex-Kipper Fleet personnel, its not much point trying to recruit semi-retired guys living in the Moray area if your aircraft (P-8?) is going to be based at Waddington!! Maybe some ex-51 with maritime experience living near Waddington? But that's going to be a very small pool.

[downsizer]

After so long, and so much bitterness (rightly?), I can't see many ex-maritime guys being tempted surely?

[ricardian]

ValMORNA said
FWIW, I understand from a contact that GCHQ is now recruiting 'Radio Staff', for which read 'Electronic Wizards'. If applicable it could be a new career in which Service time adds to Civil Service pension.


Sorry ValMORNA, it does not work that way. My 12 years RAF service (1959-73) did not count towards my 30 year (1973-2003) Civil Service (GCHQ Radio Officer) pension. And a few years before I retired all the Morse training was dropped.

[Bannock]

Effort should also be spent on retaining the precious few that are left. It would be interesting to see the numbers on how many are at, or approaching pension point. The opportunities outside are proving to be very attractive.!!

[air pig]

This is all shades of the medical and nursing drawdown post GW1, a friend who was a Squadron Leader nurse in charge of operating theatres at various locations, on a PC from an SSC, called into office. Brown envelope and goodbye, no pension nothing. Cr***d on from a great height.

When they discovered they did not have enough specialist nurses for GW2, his comment was 'if they want me back they'd better send two snowdrops and tell them to bring handcuffs'.

The RAF has like the NHS pi**ed too many people off over recent years and are now reaping the benefits or lack off because senior management has let them down.

[rockiesqiud]

MACR, PAS and a contract to age 60+ and I'll consider it.

[VictorNavrad]

In my last week at Marham, I flew 3 night bombing comp navex's followed by dropping make believe bombs at Tunby bomb plot. The navigation was by astro with each 3 star fix taking 9 shots. I got Friday to hand in my kit and warn out from the station. What fun it was ! I started a new career in London on the Monday; it was 1976 and the sun came out in May and stayed to September, the totty in London pubs was a cut above that found in Swaffam or Downham. Sad to see what the government has done to the RAF over the
years.

[Willard Whyte]

I fear my list of rejoin 'riders' would be considered unacceptable (to say the least).

[charliegolf]

I'm 58, ex Puma loadie, and already have short hair. Should I be sitting by the phone?

CG

[Avtur]

or after 4pm on a Friday (I'm ex 42, so no change there then)

TOFO; I am ex 42 (TB) Sqn and if I was still on the Sqn after lunch on a Friday I would be having serious words with myself.

[1.3VStall]

CG,

Not unless you can operate the kit in the back seat of a GR4!

[charliegolf]

CG,

Not unless you can operate the kit in the back seat of a GR4!

Right. So it's not just 2 tvs and a few knobs then? (And yes, I'm giving you that one!)

I was thinking more of a 3 day week at a secret base in Salopshire. No Mondays or Fridays if at all poss.

CG

[The Old Fat One]

@ Biggus, basically what I'm saying is that there will be a very, very small pool of people for which this would work - so fundamentally we agree. Geography is just detail, but yeah your point is solid.

@ Bannock. Dead right. If I was one of them I would be keeping my ear to the ground and possibly whispering "retention bonus" into any ears I though might carry weight. Sadly, I'm well past my sell by date.

@ Avtur, absolutely sir, bollicking accepted, it won't happen again.

[BEagle]

Perhaps someone in 'manning' at Binnsworth...oops, I mean High Wycombe, had a sudden flash of inspiration after watching Space Cowboys?

Does the P-8 have wipe-clean rear crew seats?

[Surplus]

Does the P-8 have wipe-clean rear crew seats?

I do hope so, cos I'm p*ss*ng myself laughing at the predicament that they find themselves in.

[thelizardking]

what the RAF have done, is absolutely nothing about the nav situation for about the last 5 years and then panicked about the fact they have fu***ed it in spades. They have put plenty of feelers out and even gotten a few bites, the 2 they have got back will replace the 2 they have already lost due to changing the PVR time, apart from the fact they have been out of the cockpit for 5 years of course. Anyhow, as always they fail miserably in making their personnel feel valued. Ho hum.

[Onceapilot]

I can guess how uplifting it must be on the battle proven Tornado sqn's........." Yes, well done you (so last century) Tonka chaps, keep it up, tally-ho. Never mind, we have a nice new(ish) shiny jet coming along that has secured my retirement...AHEM, I mean our future and, don't you know, it needs one less chap on the flightdeck err,.. cockpit. Whassatt?... It doesn't work yet and costs a fortune?...rubbish! Take this man out and shoot him!"

OAP

[Wander00]

There are two things IMHO the RAF has always been very bad at - computer programmes, policy and management - eg Innsworth computer lot would not let us use Sage for non-publics in the 80s (in case someone could get to the code and used it fraudulently - I ask you), and the other is manpower planning - at one time 18 month wait for AFT or OCU, in the 60s shortage of navs - how I ended up on 360! You would not think it was that difficult and similar sized civilian organisations manage, you would thing the RAF could.

[1.3VStall]

The lizardking - but what is the quality/value of the two they have so far enticed back?

Not a lot - according to their previous reputations!

[thelizardking]

I couldn't comment on their quality, having never flown with either of them before, but they left the force some 5 years or so ago, and a lot has changed within the jet since then, not beyond the wit of man to catch up though. The point is they haven't really solved anything and seem to be doing square root of cock all about securing the necessary crews till the end. I assume that they believe all the remaining navs will simply stag on 'til the death of the jet and then accept the lack of available cockpits/jobs for them beyond...Still we can't be sure nav won't be getting FRI's ' i'd rather put pilots in the back' not my words, the words of CAS! Im not paraphrasing either, i was there he said it.

[BEagle]

There are two things IMHO the RAF has always been very bad at - computer programmes, policy and management....

"Our two weapons are fear and surprise....and ruthless efficiency..."

?v=Tym0MObFpTI

[1.3VStall]

tlk,

That's not the first time I've heard that solution postulated, but of course the RAF isn't short of GR4 back seaters - officially!!!

With a possible new task of bombing Syria, who would now bet on the OSD for the GR4?

If I was a serving two-winged master race officer and they tried to put me in the back seat of a Tornado I'd go sick big time!

[Phoney Tony]

A bloke in the pub told me that ABMers are making a pitch for seats on the P8. The arguement is sound....they are used to controlling 500nm squared of airspace with lots of ac and other things to control. Thus 1 sub or a couple of ships to sort out in a 100nm squared box will be easy. And they are used to US ac.

Sounds like a plan.

[Lima Juliet]

Not a problem with ABMers doing this as long as they do a recognised aircrew course to get the required skills - I know, we could call it Nav School and AEELS! :ugh:

Interestingly thoughts reported of CAS from thelizardking. Why hasn't he used pilots as loadies as well? In fact let's make everyone pilots, eh? :rolleyes:

LJ

[Ivan Rogov]

Absolutely no reason why not Phoney T, they would need to demonstrate the suitable aptitude and learn all the skills required though...

That would require taking the appropriate tests at OASC, passing ITC and Professional Aircrew training, not all aircraft are flying offices :ok:

LJ, aren't they already trying that with Drone Drivers, pilots replacing pilots?

[Party Animal]

had a sudden flash of inspiration after watching Space Cowboys?

Too late Beags, we're already there! Not sure if you are aware but all sqn ldr aircrew and PAS flt lt's have received extensions of service to age 60. Urgent UOR's are currently being staffed to enable zimmer assisted entry and exits to our front-line fleets. Boscombe Down are also working with the Av Med school to test the effects of explosive decompression on cholostomy bags.

Great film though for those of us of a certain age. :ok:

[PingDit]

TOFO/Avtur - I'm ex 42 as well. If this all goes ahead, will there be a requirement for a new 'entertainments' branch? I think I've still got Samantha's telephone number....

[The Old Fat One]

I think I've still got Samantha's telephone number....:eek::eek::eek:

[Rossian]

......ping .....dit doppler low.

The blessed Samantha is well into her pensioner years - think about it. She still could be more than most of us could cope with however!!

The Ancient Mariner

[Avtur]

Never too old...(for a flt eng)!

[camelspyyder]

At ISK, whenever I visited 42(R), the giant coffee table brought back stirring memories, since it had served so well as the stage, and still had Samantha's stilleto marks on it.:E

I wonder where it ended up.

I also wonder how many on 42(R) (1992-2010) were completely ignorant of it's chequered history.