Ponzi scheme targeting crew - Beware - do not become a victim.

[Econ101]

http://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10428014_118129151856511_1703430310213813161_n.jpg?oh=8b3b7a 309a636f9c5489ad68ceb70d7b&oe=55EA1A1E

I am in shock the amount of crew (both cockpit and cabin) that have „invested” & taken out loans to double their money in 24 months. Please try to withdraw your money, even if only in part, before it is lost. „A small hurt now, is better than a huge hurt later”.

Tad***l / Ex*****l or whatever they will change their name to once new account openings drop has a brilliant marketing strategy targeting airline employees based in DXB. We are prone to take risks, gullible and a large target market that talks and trusts each other. The amount of recommendations and mouth-to-mouth marketing regarding this FX scheme onboard is horrifying. A get rich quick scheme is everyone's dream of a perfect exit strategy and a way to retire early and live well. Get real!

May I suggest Tad***l / Ex*****l also opens offices in Qatar and Abu Dhabi ASAP to profit on the airline employees located there.

I have been in the sandpit for a while, and have seen these schemes come and go, but more importantly their devastating effects – crew losing their savings, having to flea DXB as loans taken could not be repaid etc. Many might recall from 2007-2012 we had an SFS, let's call him Ricky Martin (to protect his identity) promoting an identical FX scheme with 8-9% returns in managed FX accounts: forex4crew

In Ricky's defense, but like many crew today he truly believed that his money was invested in FX and that he was investing and making money. He was charismatic, believed in the scheme and had the power to influence others. Soon he had convinced hundreds of crew to sign up. And these crew relayed news of their huge “paper” profits to others onboard...........

Many South Asian crew were involved in a similar scam named MMA, which also collapsed around 2012.

These scams usually have a life cycle of 4-5 years. Tad***l / Ex*****l is nearing the end of theirs. Get out before it is too late!

Please heed this warning – this is a scam – Ponzi scheme.

What I am appalled at most is the crew that realise this is a Ponzi scheme, but, nevertheless invest/gamble and then promote it. For 12 months they defend and encourage others to take the risk so as to protect their initial investment.

If you like to gamble, great; but not at others expense.

Go to a casino, choose black or red and spin the wheel, you can double your money in a minute rather then waiting 24 months and sucking in others.

Making money from this Ponzi scheme, means committing an offense and stealing money from your colleagues. Any profits made can legally and should be redistributed to victims that will shortly lose their initial $20000.

The company is paying its monthly 9% profits from new investor funds, as insufficient returns are being generated since Jan this year. Classic Ponzi scheme - do not be the next victim.

Beware

[clear to land]

On my last flight one of the Grade 1's asked if we had invested in this yet. Both of us replied-never heard of it. The more she spoke the more I had a sense of deja vu. Then she told me about one Captain who has bought 25 shares in this pie-to be honest it scares me that someone who exercises such poor judgement is allowed in a cockpit-let alone as captain. We all generally get bitten once or twice in our lives, but to go down that hard given relatively recent history is unbelievable. On the bright side, at least the Gr1 acknowledged that she considered it a gamble.....:yuk:

[Econ101]

To the believers, and the guys who recently put their bonuses into the scheme:sad:. Get your money out now. Do not let them scam us again. History has a way of repeating itself. The facts:
http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11062363_118064668529626_1455358501578045561_n.jpg?oh=81fa5c ca6137151fec6dfa36da983079&oe=56160D6A&__gda__=1445064796_e324e1b8e80042a196fa59260ad66120

[ruserious]

Yep, first heard about this a couple of months ago, said straight away that it was a Ponzi, crew looked at me like I had two heads and had no idea what I was talking about.
Would love to be wrong for their sakes

[Mach_Krit]

Flew with a guy recently that had two accounts already and was about to open a third. Purser comes to FD to claim he already had 3 himself.

Their logic was,take a loan and invest...you will make your money back in no time to repay the bank and have a nice addition to your salary.

If it smells like sh×t,it probably is ****.

[Mr Good Cat]

Yep, first heard about this a couple of months ago, said straight away that it was a Ponzi, crew looked at me like I had two heads and had no idea what I was talking about.
Would love to be wrong for their sakes

Is this the "invest 20,000 USD in Forex and we'll guarantee you'll make an extra 1500 USD per month" scheme?

Had a FO talk to me about it, and several CC.

I mean, seriously - you give 20,000 USD to someone in Saudi and they guarantee you a 1500 USD perm month return?

Would you give 20,000 USD to someone you've never met in your home country? What is it about this place that makes people do such stupid things?

[SOPS]

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

[AvroRider]

I flew with a lot of guys especially CC members who put some money in this scam and as one of you said when I said it was a Ponzi scheme they looked at me as I was a freak and didn't know what i was talking about.

Two weeks ago a male purser was explaining and trying to convince other CC in the front galley. I told him he was acting as a commercial for them and all this scam works this way. As long as people put some money in it, it will not collapse. Or until those scammers find they have enough money and run away.

With our bonus and the amount of idiots believing in this. I suspect this will happen soon.

I am amazed that some pilots who are generaly educated and a careful type of investor do invest in this scam. Even sometimes knowing it's a scam ! What a gamble...

My wife who is working for PriceWaterhouseCoopers in the Financial audit had a good laugh with her colleagues when I showed her their website.

-We are based in the British Virgin Islands (BVI) and Seychelles with a Rep office in Dubai, UAE.
Based in 2 virtually unregulated jurisdictions.
- Not registered with UAE Central Bank
- Not registered with Dubai FSA (Financial Security Authority)
- "The results audited by a third party. Each month our results are confirmed by a third party auditor before they are published." - Thank you but by who ?
- etc....

I am sure that soon some representative of this company will post on this thread and try to defend his scam...

Please take your money out now.

[springbok449]

This scam is obviously becoming more and more popular after the bonus was paid as in the last few weeks it's been mentioned in the flightdeck at least a couple of times...

As SOPS says if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is.

AvroRider, I must admit I never really had pilots as been careful type of investors, isn't the saying: "if you need some financial advise, ask a pilot and whatever he tells you, do the opposite"? ;-)

[Old King Coal]

In FZ there are seemingly numerous folk signed-up to one particular Forex ponzi scheme... and they typically all look at you askance when you state that you're not 'invested' into it and that you have no intention of being so.

They usually then proceed to tell you that they've not been burnt by it (at least not yet) and are seemingly making a fortune - which one might interpret as them getting their (and others) 'investment' paid back to them.

The suggestion that there's some 'forex' aspect to it, is just to provide a ruse that their's an air of legitimacy about it, but which in fact there isn't.

The bottom line of it all is that one should never forget that "where there's a scheme (scam), there's a schemer (scammer) !"

[PPRuNeUser0215]

The number of pilots and cc in this scam is amazing.
One thing I was wondering was why, a forex investment company would ask you to invest by lots of 20k$ rather than anything you want.
Reading about a ponzi a few days ago though I understood.
The basic principle of a principle of a ponzi requires new "investors" to double the first bet.
So if your first account is 20k, any additional contribution has to be 20 as well.
Or you need a new investor to bring the same amount.

I too felt like I was an alien when trying to explain to people that this could not be real. I failed on most occasions but there is no doubt in my mind or the mind of knowledgeable people that this is nothing more than a scam.

[Econ101]

Alien is an understatement. We are the enemy. I just feel it is our responsibility to protect / save these people. They just do not listen. My daughter springs to mind :ugh:

http://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/l/t1.0-9/11659345_118724145130345_716408029633185106_n.jpg?oh=a7c688d ffaa912bfe270273723fe303e&oe=56309D3B

Maybe facts will help?

[Econ101]

Why is it that all investors instead of heeding warnings, are always asking for proof that it is a Ponzi. Rather than asking the Scheme owner to prove it is not.


Some are finally understanding the danger their money is in, and trying to withdraw. Do not be caught with your pants down this time around. You have been warned.


To give all the investors/gamblers and anyone still considering this scam, clarity on the way you are being scammed, I will try and keep this as easy to understand as I can:


There is a FX part to this Ponzi. Beware it is only a tiny part of it - to give it the air of legitimacy.


Only $50000 (plus $ to cover huge loss in Dec14-Jan15) has ever been invested in FX by this scheme, a drop in the ocean from all the funds investors have given them. - but scary in itself.


You are given access to the myFxbook stats – ANALYSE THEM!. There is 1, and only 1 account with an average investment of $50 000 ( = 2.5 investor/accounts), it is symbolic in nature. Your actual money is never invested in FX.


They claim this account, the “Master”, represents yours. They claim it is “mirrored” and therefore is a representation of your account. Your account is similar to this, but you do not see it, and cannot access it - TRUST US they claim.


The reality is, out of all their customer funds (Millions of $ according to them – probably true) ONLY 1 FX trading ACCOUNT of $50000 exists – the one you have access to and see online. The “Master”


It is like one individual 'show home' at a property marketing event – there is only 1! - but they promise yours also exists and is identical “mirrored”(to use their exact marketing phrases).


The reality is that money deposited by the investors is not used on the FX market, instead it is taken to pay profits to existing members and the rest is taken by the owner, you only see fictitious profit statements in the system. Your money is not invested in FX, only a symbolic $50000 has ever been invested.


They do not even try hard to cover up the facts from people who actually believe a mirrored account exists and believe their money is invested in FX .


Check the Profits on their website vs Myfxbook stats!


FACT: Not enough profit/gain is made even in the “Show home/Master account” to cover your monthly profit of 9%. (myfxbook stats from 2015).


Where are your profits coming from? You guessed it. New members: Classic Ponzi 101


Get out if you still can!


A huge loss was incurred in Dec -Jan - 65% loss. Reason CHF devaluation. Did your profits incur a loss - of course not. 9% as usual..


They recapitalized the “Show Home” - symbolic “Master” account, to cover the loss- and all looks rosy again.


Did they ask you to recapitalize (put additional $ in to cover the loss, as they did in the “Master account) – course not, did your balance drop? - course not. Your money was never invested in FX anyway.



Demand your money back before you lose it all - there might still be time.


Others are already clambering for the door. Time is up for this Ponzi.

[sluggums]

I've had fellow pilots try to sell it to me. I said it smelled like a Ponzi scheme straight away.

[emratty]

Some people have short memories and want something for nothing. Interesting times coming up the property market here is going into free fall with prices falling to the levels during the credit crisis now forecast by some.
The same Ponzi/pyramid selling were around in 2008 and I have zero sympathy for anyone signed up to one!

[Kennytheking]

Anyone care to post a website or link. Not interested or able to invest, just morbid curiosity. After all I do have a spare second today :-)

[kumul1]

Ahhh yes. Bit like the Sky Bizz scheme that did it's rounds in the EK circles about 15 years ago.
The guys who got in first bought Ferrari's, the late comers had to sell their family station wagon to pay the bills.

Be careful out there..

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

Where is your average 9% profit coming from? Definitely not from FX trades

Presumably the 4-6% monthly gain on your chart is based on the master trading account balance circ. 57k. USD not 20k. You'd need to select profit on the drop down menu to get the figures on their website.

[AvroRider]

I just can't stop laughing when they say they can guarantee you an average return of more than 100% on a yearly basis ! :}:8

And look at their "About us". The first thing is "How to transfer money"... :ok:

Anyway forewarned is forearmed.

[Monarch Man]

A fool and their money are easily parted. Had the hard sell from a certain Egyptian purser recently, I just asked him if he knew what a Ponzi scheme was, when he started to talk about forex etc etc, I told him to go try and sell some ice to Eskimos instead.

[skysx33]

All of you are trading their Health flying like hell ...

At least with TA***** , investment return is there .... !
Get 16 accounts for 2 years ... and I love it !

There is no Coffin with TA **** package !!

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Had the first cabin crew in the F/deck today asking if I had heard of the "Investment" scheme. Seems its running like wildfire around the Cabin crew. So sad for these investors.. :yuk::yuk:

SyB :zzz::zzz:

[givemewings]

God forbid you urge caution on this one, get branded a 'hater'!!!

same thing, gets mentioned at least every 2nd flight. When I try to explain they get their money because the next guy/girl along signs up, they say no it's all legit, 'some local guy is in charge' (like that's any guarantee) show the same chart posted here and about 30% say they don't care if it is a scam so long as they get their money. Nice! So basically half are just ignorant and too trusting of their colleagues and the other half don't mind to shaft the next crew in line so long as THEY don't lose. :yuk:

I just feel sorry for poor Mary Jo investing so she can send her family back home to school etc only to lose it all....

Personally I think this should be a taboo topic onboard since the stopping of word of mouth recommendation would be the quickest way to kill it.

Hey, did any of you promoters notice that the words T and E are blanked out on this site? Wonder why???

STAY AWAY

[TypeIV]

The golden rule is that:

If it guarantees more than 5% a year it certainly is a scam.

[Plazbot]

I stuck a few key words and the letters t and e into Google and found this link

http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-forum/has-anyone-heard-/35478-tadawulme-exential-group.html

[oldpax]

I joined one in 2010,recommended from a friend.During the time in I withdrew small amounts as and when I needed it.Then last year the guy running it sent a round robin saying the US government had put a frezze on his broker in the US.Now we could not withdraw any money,all last year we kept getting mail saying his lawyers were on the case etc.Come Christmas the final letter saying "gee guys sorry to say I have been playing the field and lost ,no money so shutting down ,goodby"!!!!!
So there you have it and @ $200,000 disappeared!The guys name was JOE LEWIS and he is currently on bail in the UK and his assets(such as they will be)are frozen.He returned to the UK after his life was threatened by some of his less than savoury investors.
To all who read this and think they are doing well GET OUT NOW,if you don't you will regret it.I didn't lose a fortune but it paying for a decent lifestyle ,now at 73 I am looking for a short term job again!GET OUT NOW.

[Michigan777flyer]

Guys what you forget is this.....everyone has their personal goals, and choices....if people want to put their money and try this....go ahead....it is their call.....whether you are CA or F/O you can not stop them.....and not to mention you should not try either.

You don`t like this ``scam`` then don`t participate....simple.....opinion expression is one thing.....but to tell them NOT to talk about it on board is a different story.

Did you ask yourself the question....what if you are wrong?

I do stock trading on my own, and I was able to make just over $15,000 in 3 days......so I guess I am running a scam too......

You guys need to let people do whatever they want....it is NOT YOUR CALL.

BTW....you telling people to get their money out....if this is a scam.....then things will collapse that much faster on ALL INVOLVED......have you thought about that??? I guess NOT.

[jacek6]

You are so right Michigan777flyer. Never thought of it that way.

Shhhh tell no one.

Instead of 1000 victims, lets make it 2000, or better yet 10 000.

On second thought, what is their number? Let's help our colleagues out, invest and prop it up a while longer.:ugh:

Only one quote springs to mind:

...............Winter is coming..................

[Michigan777flyer]

Typical CA approach......you want to have your hand in everything and try to fix everything.....:=

Why don`t you start by fixing the rest of the world as well????? While you are at it....you seem to be on a roll.

You guys need to stop controlling people......but I guess as a CA you must love that part of your job.

Once again this is a PERSONAL DECISION and CHOICE every person has to make for themselves.

BTW.....the person that said they are not authorized trader by the UAE CENTRAL BANK....you might want to do your home work a bit better.....I managed to find them on the UAE Central Banks website in less then 5 minutes......:ok:

[oldpax]

When you are shown a spreadsheet with the monthly increase and its two years old and still climbing then your inclination is to go with it.My friend attended a party in Bangkok with the "business man/financial wizard" and joined ,after being in for two years he(my friend) showed me and I joined.Every month I got a statement showing how much was made (or on occasion lost)and I was happy with it and even drew out three times to keep me accustomed in the style I liked(!!!).
Of course it ended up as Pie in the sky and was a hoax .Any clever guy can make a spreadsheet with a (for example 3% interest )increase each month for 800 clients whose money he has been using for other purposes.In this case the total is near $200 million .
So its my duty to point this out to others that may be uneasy after reading this thread and I hope they get their money,dont say you were not warned.

[Mr Good Cat]

Typical CA approach......you want to have your hand in everything and try to fix everything.....:=

Why don`t you start by fixing the rest of the world as well????? While you are at it....you seem to be on a roll.

You guys need to stop controlling people......but I guess as a CA you must love that part of your job.

Once again this is a PERSONAL DECISION and CHOICE every person has to make for themselves.

BTW.....the person that said they are not authorized trader by the UAE CENTRAL BANK....you might want to do your home work a bit better.....I managed to find them on the UAE Central Banks website in less then 5 minutes......:ok:

Yes of course as the Captain I need to stop controlling people. All I seem to want to do is regulate, regulate, regulate... Without regulations the world would be a much better place.

Imagine a world pre-2008 if the financial institutions had been regulated!!! Those few super-criminals would not have been able to rape all the hard-working people of their pensions etc. That would have been so unfair.

Just what is it about me and my morals that wants to stop a few manipulative Captains, FOs and Pursers duping 21-year-olds into taking loans and risking time in Middle East prisons.... I am such a leftie liberalist tree hugger.

:suspect:

[Mr Good Cat]

PS This thread title should be in capitals and made a sticky.

[Kennytheking]

Michigan777flyer,

Of course the idea that we should not control people is a fair comment. Banishing talk of this from the plane is an over-reaction. However.......

Should my crew ask my opinion or wish to discuss it, I will certainly give my opinion. We know that nothing is ever guaranteed, not even money in the bank is safe.....ask the Cypriots and Greeks about that, so we know that when they say guaranteed return, they are telling porkies.

Many of these cabin crew are young and impressionable. Many of them are doing this off the back of personal loans. Surely you can realize the massive folly in this and the potential for abuse?

fx is very high risk. Look at what happened last year when the SNB announced they were ceasing CHF intervention. Many traders lost entire trading accounts, brokers went out of business.

I would never tell my crew not to do it, but I would ask them some pertinent questions and offer some Google links to help them with their due diligence.

I may be wrong in my opinion of this scheme, in fact I am not convinced it is a ponzi scheme.....I don't know enough about it, but if it is fx based, then they have not been upfront about the risks.

[givemewings]

Once again this is a PERSONAL DECISION and CHOICE every person has to make for themselves.

True but when you have people giving deliberately misleading information and/or taking advantage of those with lesser knowledge of financial matters, then it's not really an informed choice.

You'd be shocked at the number of crew who hadn't even considered the possibility of it being a scam because 'It's Forex', 'it's registered by the bank', 'It's recommended by the company(!)' and so on... they are so trusting of their fellow crew that they take word of mouth and do bare bones (if any) research... THAT is what these people are relying on.

Trading stocks for YOURSELF is one thing Michigan, it's your money to lose and yours alone. Convincing other people to sign up for something, to someone who is trading the money of thousands of people, is another. You sound a bit like the crew who got really aggressive trying to convince another crew to join, he got super mad when I suggested that TO ME, it *seemed* like some sort of Ponzi scheme and she's do best to make her own independent, unpressured research and/or consult a financial advisor. It was something to see, that crew was really quite nasty/pushy about it. Why be like this if it's not necessary to have others join to keep the thing running? If it really is legit, wouldn't they be happy to recommend that people go get independent advice?

Also- just because something is registered with an entity, does not necessarily mean that entity approve or are even fully aware of what it involves. For all I know this thing could be completely legal until the day they pull the plug and run with the money. Legal doesn't always mean right or morally sound... look at the financial scandals in the US....

[Payscale]

Michigan ..... Anyone can make 15 k in 3 days. The important factor here is how large en initial investment was. Start with 100 USD and I'd say you are a genius. Start with 15 mill and I won't bat an eye.

I was burned in a Jamaican forex scam a few years ago, so I don't play that game anymore. I understand why you do it.....since I did it myself. The dream of a quick easy cash.

Here is a link to a long discussion about this company.

TadawulME / Exential Group: (http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-forum/has-anyone-heard-/35478-tadawulme-exential-group.html)

[MosEisley]

Michigan, we get it, you don't like captains and the chip on your shoulder is rather obvious (I'm guessing you took the career FO or flight attendant approach). Next, your post is complete drivel. The second lemming makes a choice too but I'm sure he would have appreciated some cautionary advice about the nature of gravity. So, from my throne on the left side, when some crew tells me about this wonderful investment that guarantees 100% return per year, I will continue make my personal decision and choice to warm people about these 3rd world con artists.

[anson harris]

I'm staggered there's even a debate about this. I would have thought you'd have to be certifiably mad to get involved in what has to be a Ponzi scheme.

[SOPS]

A crew member was trying to talk to me into investing in this last November.

When I said to them, ..... If they are getting 10% it's a Ponzi.....all I got was a blank look.

[Anvaldra]

Hi, guys! Consult at your Russian colleagues, they'll tell you many interesting things. Russia passed this way back in the 90s. I'm surprised that there are still those who don't hear about it :confused:

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

So are we saying that in general, all Forex trading should be viewed as a scam, or just this organisation and their brokerage house?

Automated Scalping of the international currency markets by robots through a managed account can be highly profitable. So much so that the practice is illegal in some states, including the US. For this reason it probably won't be around for ever and cannot be relied upon as a future source of income for retirement.

I don't personally understand the obsession by crew with this particular brokerage house. They do NOT guarantee 10% returns but you generally see a no less than 7% NET return pcm which you fully withdraw. It's not compound growth. There are many brokers offering a similar deal... Why not spread your risk amongst a few of them if you really are interested in this type of forex trading.

Any investment offering more than 5% return must be a scam?! Is all your provident fund still held in cash funds..

[Mr Good Cat]

Any investment offering more than 5% return must be a scam?! Is all your provident fund still held in cash funds..

No, absolutely not.

...just the unregulated ones run from 3rd world countries.

Can I interest anyone in applying online to my Nigerian investment strategy? No takers? I only ask 20k USD and I'll show a bunch of my 21-year-old friends who pulled 1500 USD since they joined 3 months ago. MUST be genuine.

:E

[harry the cod]

Yorkshire Pudding

A 5% return is nothing exceptional, However, it is if you're using that % figure per month! That's a 60% return per year. This fly by night scam outfit are offering 9% per month and are validating this claim by paying out to those early 'investors' for either reinvestment or to spread the word that this is a legitimate, regulated Company. It's been done like this time and time before which is why a minority of lucky individuals do actually manage to make money.

Around 30 years or so ago, I was a regular in my pub when a similar scheme was doing the rounds. So convincing was it, even one of my mates who was in CID (Police) invested. He made his money then did a second round, only this time the regulars in the pub had opened their eyes and the pool of future investors available to prop up the scam dried up. He too became quite aggressive towards the end when he realised his money was dependent on convincing others to join. The more he pushed it, the further people ran and, unsurprisingly, never recovered his money. I didn't join luckily, but that was my first experience of a ponzi scheme and this, Ladies and Gents, is no different. If I was an investor and convinced of the validity of this Company, I wouldn't be on here trying to disprove the negative comments. A Forex trade does not require a buy in like a ponzi scheme so why waste time trying to tell people otherwise. Just quietly invest each month as much money as you can and retire a multimillionaire in 3 years.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of very young, trusting and gullible people in this World. A community such as ours is rife for these scammers. Those that are vulnerable need to be warned. As someone has mentioned before, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Very few people get rich quick, most get poor quicker.

Harry

[Xulu]

Yep flew with one of our Pursers who was raving about the scheme.

Infact he knew it was a Ponzi scheme... But his opinion is that they will keep it running until 2020 expo so thinks is he is protected for a few more years.

Like others have said, the problem I have is people realising they are at risk and then start trying to pull innocents into the scheme to cover themselves. Disgraceful.

[Econ101]

skysx33 ,Michigan777flyer, Yorkshire_Pudding. A Shrewd*investor knows that timings is everything. Even more so for Ponzi scams.

Time is up for this Ponzi scheme. Cut any losses - if you can :rolleyes:

To make money, you need to know when to sell. The window of opportunely to limit your exposure is closing. :{

Reporters that took down the Dubai MMA forex scam are now looking into this one.

Are you really willing to double down on this gamble? :uhoh:

Despair not, I am certain a similar investment scheme is just around the corner. You'll retire in no time....

[Michigan777flyer]

Just wait and see......

BTW without risk there is no gain.

Good luck to all.

[skysod]

It seems like about half of the pilots I fly with are in this scheme, so I hate to think just how much money is involved, and if and when it collapses there's gonna be an awful lot of unhappy pilots!:sad:

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

You are given access to the myFxbook stats – ANALYSE THEM!. There is 1, and only 1 account with an average investment of $50 000 ( = 2.5 investor/accounts), it is symbolic in nature. Your actual money is never invested in FX.

The reality is, out of all their customer funds (Millions of $ according to them – probably true) ONLY 1 FX trading ACCOUNT of $50000 exists – the one you have access to and see online. The “Master”

Correct, welcome to Mirror Trading.

[Stradale]

Monthly returns on the Soros Quantum Fund less than 3% p.month
Soros shorts the UK pound in 1990s makes $1billion as UK trys to enter the ERM. Stanley Druckenmill Quantum fund partner makes 100s of millions by going long the German Mark at point of German Re-unification.These guys made less than 3% per month, yet they are giants of the industry and some folks are taken in by a 9% per month return being feasible. It's a joke right?

[777boyo]

You don't have to be young and gullible to be taken in by a Ponzi scheme. Bernie Madoff suckered in many ostensibly financially-aware people who should have known better. Its called greed, and there's nothing you can do to change it.

A very wise Captain who'd made lots of money, many years ago said to me that until you've got your first million secured, don't take risks. Thank you Captain Edwards of GF, it was good advice.

$20k is a lot of money to a G2. I fear there will be tears ahead.

7B

[Monarch Man]

It's like this as I see it. No one seems to be bothered when it comes to reporting each other for taking 2 minutes of extra rest or the F/O wasn't wearing their tie or the Purser disrespected me.
So after saying "it's a ponzi scheme, google it" My give a f@ck factor is = 0

[Pointer]

@ Michigan777flyer;

Risk is part of an investment.. when you are SCAMMING or Fraudulently dealing its not called RISK.. is a CRIMINAL ACT..

The message that the money is "invested" is a false one.. a LIE.. and those that 'benefit' from it, get money out of it should be made legally accountable for luring in new people on this false pretense.. but unfortunately they are not.

In my part of the world we know these not as Ponzi schemes but as Pyramid schemes..

Pointer..

[Michigan777flyer]

You guys are missing the entire point........

To start.. I am not involved with this place at all....I have my savings safely somewhere else......but....

The point is the everyone has the right to do whatever and however they want with their money......so if you are saying that ``you should not lure people into this``........fine...but then you should not say TO DO IT or NOT TO DO IT.

Don`t just take one side and run with it......if you don`t like what this company does.....and until it does not affect you....then just mind your own business.

Simple as that.

If others want to talk about it, and spread the word, and get others involved that is their call, and not yours.

If you want to stop everyone from committing a crime.....then I would recommend you become a police officer, CID, or whatever you like.

But if you are so into stopping people committing crimes....why don`t you start with something easy and simple....like telling people not to brake the speed limit, or use their direction signals when changing lanes.....oh hang on....

Let me guess you do the same on the roads.....:D

[Wizofoz]

Mich,

Are your multiple posts telling people what they can and can't say an example of minding your own business?

[Michigan777flyer]

I am not telling them.....but rather pointing out....as they for some reason seem to have forgotten that everyone should and can make their own choices.....and don`t need to be told what to and what not to spend their money on.

That is all.....of course most of these guys are set in their ways for a very long time....so I am expecting anything new from them.:ugh:

[Wizofoz]

...And one tool to help make choices is to listen to the opinions of others- the offering of which seems to make you uncomfortable.

No one is making anyone do or not do anything= they are offering opinions based on their own experiences.

How could you possibly have a problem with that?

[Michigan777flyer]

Well most comments on here are negative about this whole thing......with a couple exceptions of course.

So I am assuming that is the same explanation and opinion they would provide to anyone else they talk to about this.

But there is NO CONCRETE FACT to back up their statements/opinions.

That does make a pretty big difference.....maybe not?

[Wizofoz]

9% a month is a concrete enough fact to tell this is a crock.

[Michigan777flyer]

Like I have stated before.....I have made $15,000 in just 3 days with a single stock purchase and sale.........

Once I brake it down into a same $20,000 account amount........the profit would have been $1,500 in just 3 days....which is 7.5%......

When you take that into account that this was done in 3 days, and not a full month of 30 or 31 days.....does 9% sound that crazy to you per month?

Not to me.....

Last month alone (which I must add was an above average month for me) I gained (losses and gains together) an overall of 21.68% on my own....and my stock trading skills and knowledge is somewhat limited...:hmm:

[GoreTex]

made a few 100k US in a few months but I was lucky and it was not guaranteed, thats a big difference, to guarantee 10% is a scam

you must be either from michigan or flying a 777 if you don't understand the difference

[Michigan777flyer]

I do understand the difference.....

But do show me please where that company says for SURE you will get 10% or 9% per MONTH......

Because I looked at their website and I do NOT SEE THAT STATEMENT ANYWHERE.......it does say AVERAGE MONTHLY RETURNS.....there is a BIG DIFFERENCE in that.....

Once again just they way I read their words......

[ualgrizz]

"Ponzi scheme targeting crew"…please tell me who received any calls soliciting their service. This company doesn't advertise. I've made a lot of money, however would not recommend to friends!

[jacek6]

"I've made a lot of money"

ualgrizz, please, don't let me miss out on making all this money too...tell me too..

This is exactly how it works :D you have just answered your own question...google "Ponzi"

[BigGeordie]

A 9% average monthly return will turn 100 dollars/euros whatever into 281 in a year if you reinvest the monthly profits. How can that possibly not be a scam, tripling your money in a year?

[ualgrizz]

Jace, I didn't ask a question about ponzi…I certainly know the definition. I simply asked what crew has/is been/being targeted…the title of the thread. The title is illogical…they don't target. Perhaps you should use your noodle for other than a hat rack. Before you make silly assertions perhaps investigate. As with anything, don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Even he stock market is a zero sum game…there must be a loser to have a winner

[Old King Coal]

Perhaps the major difference between these schemes (scams) and the Stock Market is that 'stocks' are usually based upon legitimate (audited & legally registered) businesses whom are making and / or trading actual commodities, i.e. 'tangible' things; whereas the MO of these schemes (scams) is simply to take money from those at the bottom and feed it to those at the top (albeit with the ruse that there is some sort of forex trading going on, in an endeavour to try and make it look legitimate). Accordingly, the initial success of such a schemes (scams) is an illusion. The early entrants make their money from the eventual loss of later enrollee's.

The question needs to be asked is, if everyone is making money and getting rich, where is all the money coming from? The answer is that it will be coming from the many people that are left hanging at the end of the chain when no one else is either available or willing to buy-in to it, and they therefore the later enrollee's will ultimately lose their 'investment'.

There are those that know & admit that this is a ponzi scheme and yet, so evidently so blinded by personal greed, they still buy into it, thus exposing their total lack of integrity & morals. And so, in terms of winners & losers, it might be said that they are the ultimate losers!

[harry the cod]

ualgrizz

With the greatest of respect, your knowledge of financial basics is seriously flawed. The stock market is anything but a 'zero sum game'. You don't need to have an eventual balance of winners and losers for that system to function, the same way you don't for capital growth in property, investing in classic cars, wine and other commodities. The only link between this scam and a legitimate investment is sentiment. When people realise the truth and stop investing, this Company will fold.

That's not an 'if' by the way, it's a 'when'!

Harry

[RHINO]

This thread has given me a right old laugh as it takes me back a bit to all the other scams that I have seen over the years......do people ever learn:ugh:

[Mr Good Cat]

Jace, I didn't ask a question about ponzi…I certainly know the definition. I simply asked what crew has/is been/being targeted…the title of the thread. The title is illogical…they don't target. Perhaps you should use your noodle for other than a hat rack. Before you make silly assertions perhaps investigate. As with anything, don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Even he stock market is a zero sum game…there must be a loser to have a winner

This isn't a farmers market with real living cows and pigs, it's neo-classical economics.

If you have money in it as an early joiner, you might be one of the lucky ones. If not, just put it down to experience and don't let yourself get sucked in by criminals ever again.

Good luck.

[You rock]

Hi Gents

Have done some homework on this

The company places it trades through myfx book, have spoken too money managers in regulated places like the UK.

It is difficult too put a dud website up but numbers could be fudged

further more the money managers I have spoken to have said that some are doing 7 to 8 per cent a week

they did mention that 9 per cent is achievable a month

Managed forex accounts have been up and running for some time but all the rage at the moment was Algorithmic trading

The gent I spoke too did mention and dare I say he was regulated in the UK that banks are at the moment are not employing money managers but more so guys that were capable of designing architecture that could provide returns at these levels.

I mentioned this group averaged 9 per cent a month as indicated on their website

I mentioned too him why are not banks trying to by the intellectual property behind these guys and his words were that no bank could ever pay them enough

physically impossible to buy the algorithmic trading platform

I am sitting on the fence on this one.

I did mention why are they based in the BVI, response was simply tax ( his words more companies registered in the Belize than there is in new york)

I don't know boys

I did say there is no mention of the owners and he did say that is a risk.

He did mention these guys are leveraged heavily and they were only leveraged at 1 to 3 where as these guys were leveraged at 1 too 200

Im not a supporter but someone whom has tried to debunk both sides

as I say my nose still smells a duck but I could be wrong

Still on the fence with the legs on the conservative side

Anyone out there with some superior knowledge with forex managed accounts

ps did ring Century brokers in Dubai they dint offer the product but they know it exists and becoming more the norm.

Can I ask could we try and debunk the product here in dubai before we completely turn a nose at it

[You rock]

and it could be a scam

[You rock]

To the believers, and the guys who recently put their bonuses into the scheme:sad:. Get your money out now. Do not let them scam us again. History has a way of repeating itself. The facts:
http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11062363_118064668529626_1455358501578045561_n.jpg?oh=81fa5c ca6137151fec6dfa36da983079&oe=56160D6A&__gda__=1445064796_e324e1b8e80042a196fa59260ad66120

Econ101

Can I ask have you done or asked how the pie charts or graphs work on my fxbook ?

Can you please explain as I am still at a loss.

Your saying how on earth they pay out on average 8 to 9 per cent a month on investment when their growth only increases by 4 per cent.

Just do a simple search on how my fx book works and the answers are there.

[Michigan777flyer]

ECON 101

From his comments and assumptions I think he got screwed over on a few occasions in ``investments`` in Dubai, and anything he hears about just turns it negative right away.....that is his decision of course, and opinion.:ok:

Also interesting form his comment is the following.....``the reporters that took down MMA trading are looking into this one``......which is possible I am not questioning that.....what he fails to do is know that facts......MMA was not ``taken down`` by reporters.....but rather MMA failed to pay their clients, and then the word spread, and that is how MMA collapsed on their own, and the the papers reported it.....I think there is a HUGE difference in what actually happened and what ECON 101 is saying.:rolleyes:

Some of these guys can not be talked to, and explained, whether you have good explanation, reasoning or anything.....they just won`t listen.....they just hear what they want to.:ugh:

Oh well their choice.

I have twice now explained that making 9% a month is pretty easy and simple....but again they just disregard that.

This company does NOT say that they WILL MAKE 9 % return every month....they simply state that the average expected return is 6-7 % per month......but again they missed that point as well.

The title of ``targeting crew``.....that is HIGHLY INACCURATE....from the people that I heard....no one has ever received a phone call, or email, or anything........so they consider this a scam....but not all the harassing phone calls that you get from guys who promise you a great retirement building scheme.......interestingly no person warned others about those offers.:sad:

[Heriguez]

I agree that people need to be warned about those scam,
If you don't think so please tell me what would you do if your wife girlfriend son daughter would like to open an account with them;
I am not into this subject, totally unexperienced and reading all these posts just gave me a lot of information;
I still have a Choice that would definetly be more ponderated than the one I would have done before reading them;
I met with one of those guys and he told me he has only one account; it felt a bit weird....why would you have only one if you work for the company?
Michigan can you affirm that you would be able to have a steady average profit like the one you told us for 4 consecutive years?
Could you convince me, a new guy in this area, that this is possible?

[Stone_cold]

Hi Heriguez ,

I can .

Just wire me your 20K and convince your wife,girlfriend(s) ,daughters,sons, their friends ,aunts ,uncles , step-parents , teachers ,neighbours , maids , plumbers and please tell them to invite those they know to join also .Once you can keep the happy family going and growing( you know the power of compounding and leveraging and all that , (I don't mind sharing the wealth) , I guarantee your returns for 4 years . BTW , how much do you seek(5,10,15% per month?) , not that this will be an obstacle , just curious .

I don't want to get too technical , my best buddy and neighbour ,Buffet doesn't like to give up all the secrets . You can find all the details on our corporate websites ,
www.weluvidiots.com or www.1kukuconvincedtherest.com . You will notice that we are registered in N Korea because Mr Kim was so impressed that he has provided full tax free benefits for the initial investors along with full residency status , plus 4 draws in the US green card lottery .

Let me know when you wish to start . Time is money ! Chop,chop!

[RHINO]

Love it! Stone cold more please!

[Michigan777flyer]

WOW....now stonecold.....that is a heck of a response.....I can just assume another ``10 years with EK pilot`` and you sure sound just as smart as most of the highly talented individuals we get the pleasure to fly with.......you are sure special.

But for some reason I am sure that other then you having a provident fund, you have absolutely no other financial knowledge about stock market, or how the ``system`` actually works.

There is nothing impossible about +9% per month......

But again there is NO ASSURANCE.....and let me be clear.....that this company is NOT SAYING there is either.......unless I have missed it on their website, or if you so talented 10 year people can point it out to me.:E

[Stone_cold]

Hey M777!

Time to get your head out of your @ss and lighten up .

Not even one day in EK . This is not an EK site . So as the saying goes , when you assume you make an @ss out u ( not me this time) .

As for the rest of your assumptions , seems they may be as astute as the rest of your posts .

For the record , I have not addressed or critiqued any assumptions herein and you are also free to sign up with me . I could assume why you are so defensive of the issues here , but I won't .

You are very tightly wound , maybe with your superior financial wherewithall , your time would be better spent solving the Grexit .

[Econ101]

You rock: You probably meant British Virgin Islands not Belize – although both picturesque.

As to why the BVI:

Well, if you want to set up a company to hide what you are doing, the British Virgin Islands (BVI) is a great place to do it.

BVI incorporation documents do not carry the name or identity of any shareholder of director.

The names or identities of these persons do not appear in any public record. In fact the BVI is now considering new laws that would make it a crime for anyone, in any country to leak or publish information about a BVI company.

BVI Companies records and accounts do not have to be held or filed with the authorities.

There is no requirement for any financial statements, accounts or records to be kept for a BVI Company

The World Bank Stolen Asset Recovery Initiative looked at over 200 cases of grand-scale corruption and found the vast majority of these cases used secret companies and that the BVI was one of the most popular places to set them up.

With a population of just 28 000 the BVI is a haven for concealing illegal activity, 51.8% of the Government's revenue comes directly from license fees for offshore companies

Yes, zero tax. But so does the UAE

But wait, the UAE has a functioning legal system, and regulators exist. The UAE is not 100% transparent, but compared to the BVI it is Fort Knox

[Michigan777flyer]

stone cold

Thank you for the great post.....if you did not pat yourself on the back....make sure you do it now....you seem in dire need of some ego boost!!!

I am not defending that place, or anyone, anything, to me it does not matter who looses and how much, as long as I am not one of them....this is most likely very selfish to some....but it is the reality of this world.

Some people have to loose, for others to be winners.

It just depends on how much you want to be winner.

Once again all you critics might look very foolish if this turns out not to be a ``scam`` like you have been proving it for days and days.

Once again all you guys who want to fix this place, and enforce the law, as they might be doing something illegal....if you are done with fixing this.....go ahead and fix all other issues as well.....speeding on the roads, inability to understand road signs, etc......I would enjoy you trying to do that.

But as most people are these days....you like to fix this as you can do it from your chair, not having to do any physical work......this is easy work......like what lazy people like.

Good luck with your retirement stone cold......hope you have to work until your 65......we need your knowledge of everything here for a long time....you are a highly talented individual.:D

[Econ101]

Michigan777flyer

“to me it does not matter who looses and how much”
Hope not to fly with you soon. Perhaps you should have a greater regard for your colleagues. It might make for a more pleasant working environment.

"Some people have to loose, for others to be winners" Incorrect. Start a legitimate business, you'll hurt no one.

"Once again all you critics might look very foolish if this turns out not to be a ``scam`` like you have been proving it for days and days."
You do not seem to mind looking foolish. Neither do we.

It seems most that have invested blindly, like to believe that it is legit, and demand that it is proved a scam before they are willing to sacrifice their monthly profits.

This is how these schemes work – logic gets clouded by greed.

Anyone with half a nugget in their heads would assume this is a scam, until facts are found to prove otherwise.

As to the MMA forex scam, the cowboy who started it was a 28 year old. The money went to his head. He started publicly claiming he was starting an airline and owned a bank. He started spending his money, sponsoring sporting events and the like. Newspapers started investigating his claims in a series of articles, debunking his claims. Turned out, he did not own a bank and did not file any documents to base an airline in RAK.

The tide and sentiment started to turn. Investors started to withdraw funds.

Once there was less money coming in than profits that needed to be paid, he closed the doors. Investors that had payments delayed filed police complaints.

BTW he was only sentenced to 2 years and no funds were ever recovered for the victims. Pretty good incentive to start your own scheme. He will retire with millions at the age of 30 when he gets released this year.

To all the defenders/investors/gamblers, might you please provide any concrete evidence or facts (apart from getting paid monthly, or someone you know that is) that this is not a Ponzi. When you stop getting paid its already too late to get out.

Sentiment is turning on this one. Might be wise to divest or face Deja Vu.

[Michigan777flyer]

Well we will just see how it turns out in the end.

To me does not matter.....one bit.

You seem to be set on ``bringing it down``....good luck to you.....but I doubt you will prevail.:confused:

I will stand by on the sidelines and watch it happen.

[skysx33]

All those comments are bull**** !!!

There is only one question to ask : are you ready to lose this money ?

If Yes , go for it.

If No , stay away .

[Stone_cold]

777.

None of my posts here are indicative of any knowledge of this investment "scheme" or any other knowledge . I posted a response to a request for a guarantee . You seem to have difficulty grasping the English language and the difference between what is facetious and genuine .Maybe I didn't put a smiley face ? Would that have been better ?

While on the topic of English and since you 'appear' to be from a native English Country ,do you know the difference between loose(s) and lose(s) , my understanding seems to differ from yours ? Not claiming any superior knowledge , just saying...

[Econ101]

skysx33

Enlightening post. Thank you.

Translation of your post for those unable to comprehend your wise advice:

I disagree with all the comments insinuating this is a Ponzi scheme. I have invested heavily and would like to protect my investment.
Are you a gambler with total disregard for your colleagues, devoid of any morals and prepared to get involved in a criminal act?

If you agree, put down $20000, or better yet take out a loan for $200000 and convince your colleagues to do the same.

If you disagree, continue flying, earn legal money, maybe start your own legitimate business, or actually start trading forex (cause this scheme doesn't) on your own and sleep soundly at night.

[Heriguez]

EYes Enlightening post indeed!

I have found something very simple to understand and pretty pertinent with this topic, it comes from ASICS (Australian Securities Investment Commission)

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/investment-scams/ponzi-schemes

[harry the cod]

Michigan777

"There is nothing impossible about +9% a month..." Yes, I agree with you.

"..making 9% a month is pretty easy and simple". That's where we disagree.

There is a fundamental difference between the two. I've seen shares go up 20% in a month, but it's not every month. So, as much as you might snear and ridicule those that plan on working to 65 to provide a solid foundation for their retirement, you should ask yourself this. If it was so easy to make those kind of returns, have you ever wondered why all the financial advisors and experts aren't recommending these types of investment? Or maybe they'd rather just keep it a secret and use their own money to invest and retire at 35? A quick look at the Nasdaq top gainers for the last year will show some interesting figures. Amazon and Aetna both gained around 40% whilst Netflix managed a very impressive 91%. Those figures make the headlines. I know we're dealing with two very different investments here but your mindset that 9% gain every month is simple to achieve highlights your ignorance of building wealth and managing it. And for the record, 9% is the figure that all the cabin crew keep quoting and banking on.

My only advice to you and others that may be invested in this Company is to follow Warren Buffet's advice when interviewed as to his secret of successful investment. He replied; "......I always sold too early"

In simple terms, he made his money and got out. He wasn't greedy. Timing is everything in this game, especially a pyramid/ponzi scheme such as this. This is a 'get rich quick' game you and others are playing and it will end in tears. Lots of them!

Harry

[Kennytheking]

Let us for a moment put aside the "ponzi" scheme talk. I don't have enough information to substantiate this belief, so I won't comment on it. I would like to address the forex issue though.

I consider this to be a wholly inappropriate investment for many of our crew and this is why.....

The returns are great and I have no doubt achievable. I have traded forex for several years and understand the market better than most. The returns, however, are meaningless by themselves. You need to consider them in the context of risk.

The risks here are :

1. trading system, which may or may not produce long term results, and its associated risk. Given the 56% loss in January, raises some serious questions about the risk profile of this trading system.

2. Regulation......I believe regulation is way over-rated. It gives an air of respectability to something that is little more than gambling. Regulation means nothing other than you may have a shot at launching a court action should things go wrong. It doesn't protect you if things go wrong and it won't foot the bill or help you recover lost funds. You need to cough up $$$$$ big time to have a shot.

3. Accountability. Carry on from point 2, regulation does not bring about accountability. Anybody with a bit of tech know how can set up a PAM/MAM account with a broker and start trading with other people's money. When it goes wrong, they can simply walk away because they are not held to account. At least a big wall street firm has reputation to think about. Here we have some anonymous traders doing their thing......

4. The retail FX market is a mug's game. It has no use other than as a hobby. There is simply too much systematic risk. Things like stop losses are not guaranteed. I had a broker miss my stop-loss once by 112 pips. Look at how many traders were wiped out by the CHF debacle in January. Black swan event??? The FX market has such events on a regular basis making it totally unsuitable for a long term investment. Institutional FX is possibly a different matter, but here you have experts that spend millions of $ to shave 1 millisecond off the latency experienced by their trading servers. So here we have a few weekend warriers trading with Metatrader and a VPS trying to compete with the institutions.......it is HIGH risk, make no mistake.

Michigan777flyer, you made reference to 7.5% on a stock trade. Thats nice. You are classed as a sophisticated investor. You know what you are doing and understand the risks. Presumably your trade was leveraged and coud just as easily have gone against you? Even then the stock market does not come close to the risk profile of the FX market.

Given the above info, surely it must be obvious that FX is not suitable as an investment, especially for people that do not understand the risks?? Knowing, or being told the risks, is meaningless without UNDERSTANDING the risk. It is simply not prudent or wise to "invest" what amounts almost a full years' wages in such a high risk activity? Or even worse borrowing the money:ugh:

I don't have a horse in this race and it is not my job to "stop" people from doing this, but I do think that the more experienced amongst us need to provide a reality check to our younger colleagues that may blinded to the risk by their emotions and greed. If they still elect to go for it, well, then they will learn in another way.

[harry the cod]

Kennytheking

Thank you for a clear, unemotional and succinct post. You've clearly hit the nail on the head and people should take note. Well done sir!

Harry

[You rock]

Keneth

Thankyou for the post, as I asked can we at least put some meat into the discussion regarding this so called ponzi.

Do you know much about myfxbook ? credible

regards

YR

[Kennytheking]

Thanks Harry.

You rock, yes, myfxbook is very credible. They have no horses in any race and have gone to great pains to provide 3rd party authentication of accounts.

This is not their primary trading account though, as you can see the balance is way too low considering the deposits that are being taken.

Presumably they are pointing to myfxbook as a reference account. I have a problem with this, as they are using myfxbook to try and establish credibility, yet what is happening in reality is different from their myfxbook profile. So where is the money? Why not have the primary account reflected on myfxbook?

As you can see, 56% loss in January followed by 4% returns(presumably toned down the risk levels a bit) compared to 9% on average paid out.

[You rock]

Kenneth

Yes understand what your saying regarding deposits taken and the equity balance shown, but as you said its a reference presumably on a 20k USD account.

I have found some stuff on myfxbook too enlighten debunk or call it what you will

let me know what you think

regards

YR

A guide to using and recognising myfxbook accounts (http://forums.babypips.com/newbie-island/53684-guide-using-recognising-myfxbook-accounts.html)

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

This is not their primary trading account though, as you can see the balance is way too low considering the deposits that are being taken.

Presumably they are pointing to myfxbook as a reference account. I have a problem with this, as they are using myfxbook to try and establish credibility, yet what is happening in reality is different from their myfxbook profile. So where is the money? Why not have the primary account reflected on myfxbook?

They are using Mirror Trading and client funds are held in segregated managed accounts held within verified UAE bank accounts of the brokers, including FCI, not the company concerned here (and there no cash transactions).

The 4-6% account profit is, for some reason, measured against the total account balance which includes accumulated profits. You can see this in 2014... Gross profit in January 15%, reducing to 8% in November as the master account balance through profit accumulation grows. That's my understanding.

On myfxbook, you can see the actual monthly profits achieved in 2014 and 2015 on the trading balance of circ. 20k USD which is reflected in the segregated client accounts. Of course Econ101 won't post those graphs here, but to view them yourself, just click on the drop down menu on the right of the graph. If the data on myfxbook is verified, why would they need new client funds to support trading and payouts? I mentioned gross profits, they charge 30-40% fee on any profits achieved above certain thresholds, plus annual account maintenance fees.

I won't even bother commenting on the BVI = ponzi claims.

[Snake man]

Well now, before getting all carried away with Kennytheking's financial brilliance, could we just scroll back to 2009, and the following post from the guru?

"Yeah, I am also waiting for my money.

Still, I don't think its a ponzi scheme. I did google F1 Investments and makes for some interesting reading......just highlights the lack of knowledge out there. People don't seem to understand how the FX market works and can't comprehend 100% plus returns."

[harry the cod]

Snake

Would you advocate the cabin crew investing in this Company? Many of us at some time or another have had our fingers burned. That's how we learn, from experience. Is this thread not designed to warn those less experienced to be careful?

Harry

[Kennytheking]

Snake man, good point. I have been wrong before. As Harry pointed out, I have been there, done that and lost the t-shirt. Use the experience which ever way you wish.

I lost over $10 000 with F1, so I know what awaits the naive......

[You rock]

Can someone enlighten on F1 investments, was it a ponzi or just someone running off with the cash

[Snake man]

No Harry, I certainly would not. Nor would I have advised anyone to get involved in EPI/F1/Property Concepts/Mayfair and Hamptead etc.
I believe we came here to take the money, not give it back.

Sorry, Kenny. I was being a bit hard on you.

SM

[Econ101]

You rock:

Glad you are doing some research.:ok: You will find all the information you need on myfxbook to enable you to ask pertinent questions. The facts do speak for themselves and do point to the fact that this is indeed a Ponzi scheme.

Kennytheking.

As you rightly pointed out this cannot possibly be their primary account just a reference account. One would hope it is not the case that this is the only account. :sad:

As Yorkshire_Pudding points out, these guys claim they are mirroring this account, and you have a segregated account that does exactly what you see on the graphs of this reference account.

For arguments sake, lets for a moment assume that investors in fact have segregated accounts which indeed mirror this account.

The problem lies in the fact that this reference account does not generate anywhere near enough returns to pay out the av. 9% profits! This reference account makes 1.83% monthly on average.:ooh:

This reference account was set up with $20K on the 7th May 14. They claim it accumulates profits and is a true/mirror of how your account is performing.

Well the ROI of this account is actually 28.8 %(from 7 May 14 until today) . To get an accurate rate of return you must look at the Abs. Gain 17.09% (as the abs gain factors in new deposits..more on this later). I would be satisfied with a 17.09% return on my investment.

How is it that you receive 9% a month? For this to be possible the ROI/Gain would have to be at least 100%. It is not.:{ Where are your profits coming from?

http://s18.postimg.org/5jf2biwhl/Facts101.jpg

There is naturally a huge element of risk involved in FX, to achieve this 17.09 % pa return, which I am sure the sales/conmen inform you about.

This account is leveraged at 1:200 (although the website claims otherwise).

The initial $20k did not generate this 17.09% return on its own.

Due to the leverage and risk, each time there is a loss, it is huge. The account has to be recapitalized to cover the losses.

Have you ever been asked to recapitalize your accounts when a loss is incurred – course not.

In fact $222270 has been deposited into this reference account during the last year. The 17.09% was generated by this $222270 not by the initial $20000.

Were you ever asked to deposit more money to increase your account balance by 10x as this reference account has been. Course not. Why?

Your money was probably never invested in FX so the losses affecting this reference account were never incurred.

The facts speak for themselves. There still might be time to get out.

[sluggums]

Nice one Econ...

Cat. Pigeons. Amongst.

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[jack schidt]

Hi folks, I have been following this thread with interest and would like to throw in a quick reality check that Schidt does happen.

EPI (I stupidly invested in) took $55,000 per share and is now worth $18,000 per share. Many astute investors went into this off the back of previous gains in similar investment vehicles. We all went in on make a quick $ with returns above a normal investments returns and we all got severely burnt.

There is NO such thing as an investment that can make you unbelievable returns unless there is unbelievable stupidity by people getting into such a fund. To attract more people into the fund, money in the fund is used to pay some out to inspire others that the returns are unreal.

If you do not understand the risk or the investment you are getting into, if you cannot afford to lose the investment as if you were placing it on a roulette table, then you should not invest in any such schemes. If you have invested into one like this then do your best to recover your investment before those that get out last will be the ultimate losers.

Be wary,in EPI we were pulled in as partners and not investors which meant that as a partner you could not pull your investment out any time soon.

Good luck

J

[MosEisley]

For anyone interested, I have another great investment opportunity. It is called "selling drugs.". It's a fantastic way to get huge returns on your initial investment. It doesn't really matter that it's illegal, the regulation and oversight in some countries is very lax so you can totally get away with it. Your customers will tell all of their friends about your product and ensure your growth. Eventually, you won't even have to sell it yourself. Some of your customers will want to sell this amazing product for you. Once that happens your have reached the level of "kingpin" and that's when you really start making the big bucks. From the moral perspective you are completely exonerated because doing drugs is a PERSONAL CHOICE and none of anyone else's business, especially self righteous and meddling airline captains who think they know what's best for everyone. Have you ever been to a party with them?. Soooooo annoying. But, break out some of your product, and boom, instant party.

You know what else is a PERSONAL CHOICE?. Bring a decent human being with concern for other people or being a total a$$hole with complete disregard for your fellow man.

Yep, I'm talking to you Michigan777, you selfish prick. I know your type, bitter FO for life, probably failed upgrade a couple times or made some bad PERSONAL CHOICES that will leave you in the right seat until you die at 65. A delusional republican drunk on Fox news that thinks big business gets a bad rap and "caveat emptor" for all the suckers out there.

Please change your name, I like Michigan. Charlevoix is lovely this time of year.

[nakbin330]

Hear hear Mo.

[joe.bloggs]

Maybe Mich has all his money in this scheme and he didn't bargain on it collapsing before he got his money and profits out. He doesn't want to feel like the village I***t left holding the ball. Its easy to see the panic in his posts for there isn't any sense. Please keep putting your money in so he can get his out (sarcasm).

[Heriguez]

This official Australian government link gives information pertinent to our topic, check it out

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/investment-scams/ponzi-schemes

[Payscale]

I seriously doubt he is a pilot

[jidder]

Had the knowledgable guys from the head office call me trying to get my details, it went something like this .......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jgpYT_usfjQ

J:E

[skysx33]

Hey , Stone cold .....LOSER .... Is it correct ?

[nolimitholdem]

Good comeback. Only needed five days to come up with it. :D

Latest rumblings are that the scheme is starting to wobble, which is why it's being promoted more aggressively. Gotta keep the bottom of that pyramid strong! hahaha!

Usually I don't wish ill on anyone or their money, but in this case I'm happy to make an exception. You can't cure stupid.

[Stone_cold]

Not sure ,but reading between the lines of your not so subtle attack ,it seems grammatically correct .

Also not sure what you are taking offense to . My reply was to Mich 777's post # 79 , not yours .I realize that you may have mistaken this as you do use the word , and my post immediately follows yours , but please note the "777" at the beginning of my post #83 . I don't generally critique the proficiency of English Language here , however if a native english speaker( Michigan) shows a deficiency and it is obviously not a typo and he is being vociferous , then maybe a reminder is in order .

Hypothetically , if you went on the French forum and you were grammatically incorrect you would be corrected , "non" . I would be laughed at , "oui" .

If you still have your strong opinion then , c'est la vie .

[Michigan777flyer]

Thank You for the correction cold stone......well done.

BTW......are you a cold stone? No.....most likely not......so why would you assume that my user name has anything to do where I am form or what I do.

You guys make it way too easy to mess with your heads and thoughts......

This discussion is getting way to fun....but if you don`t mind I have to get back to my shift at the petrol station........lazy people who can not fill their own vehicles.....ahhh.....they remind me of certain people I know way too well.

Carry on.......

[scandistralian]

Discussed this with my brother who is a Chartered Accountant & Financial Planner. He was interested to know; are the individual investors able to approach their investment manager and attain a detailed profit and loss summary for what has been done specifically with their own account/money?

As I understand, you are not buying into a fund, but the investment involves setting up individual accounts, which mirror a master account, therefore this information should be readily available.

[altocu]

I've noticed over the last few weeks that those who have invested in the scheme are becoming much more strident in their advocation of it. On my last trip, I hadn't even made it off the bus to the aircraft before I was asked if I had heard about it. This same cabin crew mentioned that she was investing separately in a new forex company as well, the name of which escapes me.

[Utah]

Putting the company being discussed aside the good news is there are an increasing amount of options becoming available in the world of Forex trading, & as time goes by so do track records. I spent a day googling reputable managed forex traders & there's a few with 3 years plus good verified track records using well known mainline independent Brokers. From my 1 day googling I've come up with a few things I would not venture into any future investments without:

1. If you can not use an independent reputable Brokerage firm in which you can see everything happening & have control over your account don't do it.

2. Certified proof of past performance.

3. Risk versus reward. i.e. maximum draw down on past performance & stop loss insurance (50%-80% or whatever). This is a preference each person should decide individually dependant on their own portfolio.

4. Lastly don't just invest with one! Hedge your bets across as many reputable Managers as possible.

Although Forex is risky, a lot of the risks can be eliminated by doing your own due diligence. There are actually Money Managers out there that you can invest with who will do all this for you. I've found the top performing companies out there can offer up to 3% net return a month whilst ticking the boxes above & allowing you to sleep at night.

Like I said though I'm only a day into it but am quite impressed with what the forex market will have to offer over the next 5 years. It seems if you do your homework, minimise your risks by diversity & don't get greedy, you can still make a lot more money that the bank can't offer (3% per month instead of per annum) with possibly less risk than the stock market or property.

Good luck everyone!

[flaphandlemover]

Best comment of an OZI FA on one of my last flights....


"I Don't care if it's a Ponzi or if I harm others... As long as I get money..... I don't care if it's illegal...."

Awesome people we hire....

[ferris]

I am at a loss as to why people just don't ask this very basic question: If these people have struck gold with this amazing way to make money- WHY ARE THEY INVOLVING COMPLETE STRANGERS? Altruism?
Why are they not just using their own money, their families money, their close friend's money, or going to a bank and borrowing it themselves, and then packing up after a few years and sailing off into the sunset? It would be simple with the returns claimed. Certainly, if they could prove their risk/return, 'big money'/banks would be falling over themselves to finance it.

Any 'investment' which is actually a scam, fails this simple test. (btw, there were a bunch of allegedly smart people taken by a conman in HK a few years back who could've saved themselves a lot of grief by applying this simple test).

[You rock]

I am at a loss as to why people just don't ask this very basic question: If these people have struck gold with this amazing way to make money- WHY ARE THEY INVOLVING COMPLETE STRANGERS? Altruism?
Why are they not just using their own money, their families money, their close friend's money, or going to a bank and borrowing it themselves, and then packing up after a few years and sailing off into the sunset? It would be simple with the returns claimed. Certainly, if they could prove their risk/return, 'big money'/banks would be falling over themselves to finance it.

Any 'investment' which is actually a scam, fails this simple test. (btw, there were a bunch of allegedly smart people taken by a conman in HK a few years back who could've saved themselves a lot of grief by applying this simple test).


Ferris

No bank in the world could afford the algorithm

So why not take other people's money and make a 30 per cent cut.

As for the Ponzi only time will tell

[You rock]

Ferris

No bank in the world could afford the algorithm

So why not take other people's money and make a 30 per cent cut.

As for the Ponzi only time will tell

furthermore it ain't just these guys that do the same thing. Just google managed discretionary account or just google managed forex accounts for that matter and ask the money managers what price of the pis they take.

Answer it's more than 25 per cent

[ferris]

You both have failed to answer the question.
Once again. Why use other people's money?

Banks can't afford the algorithm? Please. This algorithm so valuable that banks can't afford is being rented out to strangers for a few percent a month? Right.

The only possible answer is that there is an enormous risk of losing the ENTIRE capital. I have seen any number of these type of investments where the proposer is taking a cut and the 'investor' holds all the risk. As previously mentioned in the thread, the stock market is similar, except that your return is much lower, but so is your risk (and risk of losing your entire capital is truly negligible). The scheme described here is more 'roulette wheel' than stock market. I would give you a demo if I had more time.

However, if you want to ignore the "Why use other people's money" test, go right ahead. I can smell the fingers heating now.

[Mr Good Cat]

While we're on the subject of recruiting investors - could anyone pass me the details of anyone they recruited for this scheme?

I've just taken a big shipment of these beauties and looking for individuals to buy wholesale from me in bulk... then you can resell at a huge profit.

We all know how popular both chocolate and tea are in Dubai so it's a surefire winner to while away those 50 degree hot summer days and also make some quick cash...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_way/3409302647

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_way/3409302647

[electricdeathjet]

Amazingly 2 crew members on my last flight have just taken out bank loans to enter this scheme, another one put all their savings and bonus into it as well.

I am concerned for some as they are putting all their eggs in one basket and will have nothing to fall back on if things go sour...

[bigdaviet]

Best comment of an OZI FA on one of my last flights....


"I Don't care if it's a Ponzi or if I harm others... As long as I get money..... I don't care if it's illegal...."

Awesome people we hire....

Exactly the same thing being said by cc on my last flight. Reap what you sow I guess...

[SOPS]

People are taking out bank loans to invest in this? What part of crazy, don't they understand? They will be the ones in a few months sitting on the flight deck saying how they can't leave because they owe HSBC AED250000 or are forced to do a runner.

[nonsense]

I can see the sense in investing 90% of your wealth in (multiple independent) places that offer a 95% chance of turning $100 into $110 in a year, and a 5% chance of turning it into $98. The statistician's "expected return" is $109.4 and by spreading the risk around, the likelihood of losing 2% on everything is minimal.

I can see the sense in investing 90% of your wealth in (multiple independent) places that offer a 90% chance of turning $100 into $130 in a year, and a 10% chance of turning it into $30. The expected return is $120, the potential losses are larger.

I can even see the sense in spending $10 on a lottery ticket which offers a one in two million chance of winning $10,000,000, even though the statistician's "expected return" is just $5, and you're a near certainty to lose your dough. It's play money and dreaming, not investment.


But investing everything you can lay your hands on, even borrowed money you MUST repay to the bank, in a single investment claiming a return of, what, 4% per month, 60% per annum, which MUST carry a very significant risk of total loss??

Surely these muggins can see it *might* be a scam, I wonder what they think the % likelihood is that this is a scam?

Some thinking type people might accept a 60%pa return on investment with a risk of total loss of 25%, yielding an expected return of 20%pa, but they sure as hell wouldn't stake their entire financial future on it.

And this one stinks much more than 25%.

It's a lottery, so the investment should be no more than play money and the return is nowhere near enough to bother.

[RHINO]

Nonsense....you keep using the word 'investing' but this is nothing more than a drawn out Ponzi scheme. One wonders what they told the bank the money is for. If people are that stupid what can you do....

[nonsense]

I shifted from "investing" to "spending" when I got to lottery tickets.

The point was to show that while high risks with poor expected returns have their place, that place is having a flutter, not investing your life savings.

A Ponzi scheme is no more than a dishonest lottery where the last ones in are the losers.

Even if you (not YOU you, "you the investors" you) refuse to recognise this, you've got to recognise the higher than normal risk involved and treat the investment appropriately. 4% per month (60%pa) sounds great until you realise that even with a 75% chance it's real (hah!) it's not actually a particularly outstanding deal.

Frankly it's more like betting your life savings on a single spin of a roulette wheel because you think the wheel is slightly off and gives you a 2 in 3 chance of doubling your money. Madness! Except that in this case, you're wrong, and in fact the house takes all off of everyone who bet after last year! Folly!

[nonsense]

Or of course people like you (YOU you this time) and I look at it, mutter "Ponzi" to ourselves, and regret our lost opportunity about as much as we regret not replying to the three different Nigerian bank officials who wrote to us last week.

[webo75]

Hey, I'm working on a story on potential ponzi schemes, is anyone who is concerned about this operation free to meet up to discuss this in person? Won't publish names. My email is [email protected]. Thanks Nick

[Stjuk]

Very gods news that someone is looking into this. I see a lot of potential victims in this type of environment.

I have nothing to do with it, and won't be of any help.

But it would be greatly appreciated if you could let us know when you publish something.

Good luck

Hey, I'm working on a story on potential ponzi schemes, is anyone who is concerned about this operation free to meet up to discuss this in person? Won't publish names. My email is [email protected]. Thanks Nick

[Schnowzer]

Or of course people like you (YOU you this time) and I look at it, mutter "Ponzi" to ourselves, and regret our lost opportunity about as much as we regret not replying to the three different Nigerian bank officials who wrote to us last week.

No! Mr Kwagalagazumbee's wife is a scam? I thought he was the deceased president of the FCDFAB (Free Conflict Diamonds for All Bank)😱 and she would transfer me $10million if I gave her my bank card pin.👍

[Laker]

I think there will be a lot of tears when this ponzi unravels. It's not just cabin crew. I can't believe how many pilots I know bring this up and think it's a legit company.

TadawulME / Exential Group: | Forex Peace Army - Your Forex Trading Forum (http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/threads/tadawulme-exential-group.35478/)

[WhatsaLizad?]

For the newbies, if any fellow aircrew ever approach you with a "good investment", ......ignore or run as far as you can.






At my very large US carrier, I won't name it, but it is close to the start of the alphabet, 2 large scams took millions of $$ and were orchestrated by fellow pilots.


Fortunately, one was sentenced to a TDY in a US Federal prison. I am not sure of his potential lifespan on an island of fellow pilots. ;)

[oldpax]

Whats the bet that the first time one of the "Investors"asks for his money back there will be a problem with the "Broker"holding the money!!!I was in one for six years and all was normal until the last year when apparently the US government froze the"Brokers "money for various reasons.Wait and see!!!!

[Stradale]

Truly embarrassing, the lack of due diligence.
Of course its a Ponzi.

Managed Forex accounts are one of the top HYIP scams currently
doing the rounds. Doesnt anyone do background checks anymore.

Heres a further three popular ways to get yourself fleeced, so watch out
Sports Betting Arbitrage
Crypto Currency Training courses
Online Advertising Schemes (Buy $50 credit packs click 10 ads get $60 back)

Dont say you werent warned.:=

[g109]

Rub 1 out,

You are by far the most naive idiot I have come across here, but I think anyone stupid enough to have invested in such a scheme, deserves to looses their cash

[jack schidt]

What goes up must come down

There is no such thing as free money

If it sounds too good to be true, it is too good to be true


I could go on, I got burnt in EPI, the only winner is the scheme aministrator or wouldn't be doing it.

Everyone withdraw your initial capital and stay safe. IF it's that good then leave profits in and let them continue to multiply faster than anyone can add on a calculator (it appears).

J

[Stjuk]

Rub 1 out

You might be home free, but a lot of people will get hurt. Because of stupidity or ignorance.

But I don't think you care...

You guys all are all funny.:D

It has nothing to do with you. None of had the balls to invest or take the risk. If you can ride the first year out you get all your initial investment back and the rest is pure profit. Anything is a risk.

Now you are all here blasting people Who have done it.:ugh:

I don't actively recruit crew or anyone else but after a couple of years in this system and making more then a CS Captains salary a month, guess what? I don't need to sell or share with anyone else, I am getting paid.:D:D

Don't knock what isn't any of your business. Most of you will still be here bit**ing and moaning for the next couple of years, funny and sad. My choice not yours. Let the attacks begin....

Some of you need to relax and RUB 1 OUT:ok:

[ironbutt57]

when a Ponzi scheme collapses, even those who cashed out early may find themselves subject to "clawbacks"...in other words required by the court system to repay their ill-gotten gains back, to be distributed among those who lost their investment...so even early "investors" who got out, might find themselves drawn back in, in a most undelightful way..

[delorean79]

Don't feed the Troll

[Killer Loop]

Indeed. In the case of the Madoff scam if within the six years before Bernie was arrested, investors who received more than they invested initially were compelled (sued) to return their profits and in many cases part of their initial investment. Apparently this effect(ed) 1000 people (50%).

[aerosexual77]

It is very clear this is a ponzi scheme. Picking a large airline like EK was a good place, crew talk alot and according to friends in EK this thing is spreading like wildfire. Pilots buying up to 15 accounts, cc taking out 40K USD loads to fund 2 accounts, madness. Its easy to get caught up in this, everyone talking about how much extra they are making, in the case of cc with 2 accounts that can be more than they probably take home in a month. Everyone wants to get in on it. Well paid pilots can afford to loose 20, 40K its the CC i feel sorry for if this goes belly up.

The claim that they are backed by S&S Brokerage house, who are legit, is untrue, they are merely the introducing broker, they have no other liability.

Very hard to tell someone to leave it now and a year later its still going but make no mistake this thing will eventually collapse. This tread was only started at the end of June and already a journalist is sniffing around, be careful this could fold very soon.

If you still want in and have a spare 20K, know this is just another ponzi scheme, the forex trading is just a front. My advise if you do have a spare 20K head to Vegas for a long weekend and blow it or make it there, at least you'll have fun doing it!

For those thinking of taking out loans to invest in this, I'm just nobody on the world wide web and you dont need to listen to me but for your own sanity dont do it.

For those still in it, your choice, I cant say it will collapse tomorrow, next month or even next year, all I know it will collapse and your money will be gone.

You tube ponzi schemes, if you're still are not convinced

[RHINO]

Well said Aerosexual77:ok:

[Econ101]

UPDATE:

Clients reporting problems withdrawing funds. Are too many people trying to get out before it is too late?

Excuses given in Sept:

Payments delayed due to the fact that they were closed 23-26 due to Eid Holidays.

Current excuses for delays in October:

Email sent out explaining the reason for delay in withdrawals:

"...Further to a prior communication last week in regards to the delay in withdrawals, due to a daily transfer limitation set by our respective local bank which is beyond our control. Keeping in mind the rapid growth of the company this issue has been resolved by partnering with Westpac Bank Australia, not only as an alternative but as a long term solution which is more conducive to the nature of our business and has no hindrance to the transfer limitation.

In a process of resolving the first issue, we have encountered another, as our account was registered as a SME (Small Medium Enterprise) therefore we have no limitations on the volume but have a daily limit on the number of transactions, we are already in a process to increase the same.

Further, unfamiliarity to the rules and regulation in the Australian banking system and being our first time, we request clients for their cooperation and patience until we solve the issue, wherein Exential is putting all their efforts to resolve the same ASAP..."

Why would a so called "regulated" and "audited" FX company in the UAE have to open and use a SME bank account in Australia of all places?:eek:


If you are having trouble getting your money back do what this investor did:

"The second account closure took a great deal longer then the 20 days to be returned to me. I sent emails daily to ask where the money was, which I got either vague responses or no response at all. In the end after closer to 35 working days I declared I would have to engage the local authorities to investigate the non return of my capital. Within 5 minutes I had a response and the same day the capital was returned to me.":D

There might still be time.

[oldpax]

The case I am involved in is still gathering evidence,not sure where the head man is who started it and then folded .This is exactly the same ....You were warned ,several times!!Good luck!!!!

[nonsense]

Bearing in mind that many victims are likely to go very quiet, has the bubble burst on this yet?

[Wordsworth]

Have heard of some guys investing in another similar scheme. It's called UTmarkets.com. Any info,experience ,warnings to pass on. 👍

Ww

[harry the cod]

Having seen their website and read the terms and conditions, it is without doubt another scam. The legal terms referred to could have been written by a 15 year old, poor grammar, incorrect terminology and general statements that mean absolutely nothing. And surprise, surprise, another Company based in the Seychelles.

Still, for those that have lost or are about to lose their coats on the current ponzi scheme, they can always get in early this time!

Harry

[GoreTex]

so funny harry, a friend of mine opened a bank in they seychelles a few years ago, he is very well off now but not my friend anymore cos he tried to drag me into it

[Wizofoz]

There was a post here from an investor saying he was still getting paid.

He seems to have deleted it.

THAT might tell you something!!

[falconeasydriver]

Speaking to a former EK colleague of mine over a beer recently, it would seem that amongst his crew several eastern Mediterranean males were not their usual target fixated selves due to a serious lack of cash from one of these investment schemes. When pressed for further info he also mentioned that the FO had money tied up and was no longer able to access it. We toasted to their collective greed and stupidity and rejoiced in the knowledge that in less than a minute there'd be another one born.

[SOPS]

I just hope that those who borrowed money to get in, got out before it was too late.

[d_aito]

I ran the numbers on a compound profit calculator using the typical monthly profit report of Exential and these were my results:

If someone found a FOREX algorithm that made 10% profit a month (thats 120% a year) and reinvested his earnings into the system each month, with an initial investment of 1million, this person would become a billionaire after only 6 years, and get this, that same person would become THE RICHEST PERSON IN THE WORLD, with a net worth of over 92 billion dollars in only 10 years just from using this FOREX trading this algorithm. This monthly percentage profit is what Exential is promising their future customers. (Sources for these calculations are bellow)

Seeing these numbers made me realize how ridiculous their profit promise is.

To follow on someone's comment, if you found a way to become the richest person in the world in 10 years, would you go to the trouble of sharing it with other people and hiring staff, and setting up an office and promoting and finding clients? hell no you wouldn't! you would just use your system and become the richest man in the world, simple.

If anyone wants to know about all the other irregularities I experienced during my time with Exential, please let me know, I thought Id just talk numbers on this post.

Compound profit source 1:
Forex Compounding Calculator - Forex21 (http://www.forex21.com/forex-compounding-calculator/)

Start Balance: 1,000,000
Percent per Month: 10%
Number of months: 120 (10 years x 12 months)
RESULT: 92,709,068,817


Compound profit source 2:
Compound Interest Calculator (http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm)

initial investment: 1,000,000
Annual Addition: 0
Years to grow: 10
Interest rate: 120% per annum (10% per month)
Make additions at: End of each compounding period

FUTURE VALUE: 92,709,068,817

Comp

Ridiculous profit promise, obvious Ponzi scheme. DO NOT invest your money here, if you have, get it out NOW.

[Oblaaspop]

I understand your point, but I think you may be missing the point!

It is my understanding that Exential 'promise' nothing. They have apparently achieved between 7-9% on average per month for the last few years.

Unlike other 'ponzi' schemes, Exential encourage you to withdraw your returns every month as there is no return paid on 'profit' only the contracts you have - this doesn't really fit with the classic ponzi model (such as F1) which encourages you to leave all money in the fund, thus ON PAPER you appear rich!

Clearly then your 'compound' calculation is not relevant in the case of Exential, although it may be true of other 'similar' schemes I'm hearing about!

Incidentally, I'm neither a promotor nor detractor of this scheme, but I do hear that guys HAVE got their returns this month despite a thread gloating to the contrary!

If any of you have HARD factual evidence that Exential is a DEFINATELY a ponzi, please share.

[nonsense]

If any of you have HARD factual evidence that Exential is a DEFINATELY a ponzi, please share.

Generally when investing, I'm looking for HARD factual evidence that something is DEFINITELY NOT a ponzi scheme.

Because this position is so common (in turn because most people actually want to get their money back one day), legitimate investments, even high risk high return ones, have various protections built in to demonstrate they are legitimate. Have you heard the term "Due diligence"?

Hence the general rule of thumb, that "if it looks like a ponzi and it smells like a ponzi, there's a very high chance that it is a ponzi", and the entirely reasonable onus upon investment schemes to demonstrate they are not ponzis.

But hey, if you feel there is some small chance that it isn't, feel free to borrow as much as you can and hand everything you can get your hands on over to them.

[nonsense]

It is my understanding that Exential 'promise' nothing. They have apparently achieved between 7-9% on average per month for the last few years.
"Apparently". Claimed.

Unlike other 'ponzi' schemes, Exential encourage you to withdraw your returns every month as there is no return paid on 'profit' only the contracts you have - this doesn't really fit with the classic ponzi model (such as F1) which encourages you to leave all money in the fund, thus ON PAPER you appear rich!
Look at the frenzied behaviour of the so called investors. Exential don't need to retain returns in worthless paper accounts if enough of the suckers choose to "reinvest" their supposed returns, rather than take cash.

Incidentally, I'm neither a promotor nor detractor of this scheme, but I do hear that guys HAVE got their returns this month despite a thread gloating to the contrary!
You do understand that a ponzi does hand over returns for a while to suck in more victims?

[Oblaaspop]

Can't argue with your points made no nonsense - for the record I was actually one of the fools suckered into F1 several years ago (fortunately for only a very small amount relative to many of our brethren), so I'm now fully aware of the need for due diligence.

The point is, none of us (and I suspect you are included) are professional accountants/forensic money trail analysts and all work off a 'hunch' be it positive or negative!

Several crew ask our opinion because they perceive that pilots are intelligent when it comes to money and investments - the sad reality is that none of us are or we'd have retired long ago!! I basically tell them that I don't know if it's a ponzi or not, but I DO tell them to NEVER borrow money to put into it, however if they have a spare $20k laying around, which if they lost it wouldn't cause them to top themselves, then the potential gain could outweigh the risk.

There are many who have done and continue to do well from this particular scheme for the last 5 years (I know several of them - not all pilots - and some VERY intelligent chaps).

What I do find disturbing is the 'glee' and excitement that some of you seem to pervey at the mere thought that it may collapse thus harming some people you work with just because they decided to take a risk (calculated or otherwise) to potentially better their lives and escape here a few years earlier.........Each to their own, live and let live etc etc

[SOPS]

Obla, I think you are missing a ' not' between 'would' and 'cause'.:ok:

[harry the cod]

What I find disturbing is the risk people take TO escape a few years early. I'm just stunned by the niavety and greed of so many that have absolutely no idea what they've got themselves involved with.

When people keep quoting the fact that much money has already been made by those involved early on seems to justify the fact that the system is legitimate. It's not. It's a scam, it's illegal and however people try to dress it up, it's straightforward fraud.

Harry

[Oblaaspop]

You seem very passionate about this Harry old chap...

I fail to see how it directly affects you. Why someone investing in a high return 'investment' is deemed greedy I have no idea.

Like I said earlier, many of you have said it IS most definitely a scam, please provide evidence - not rhetoric or noise!

Harry, if you truly believe it is illegal, please tell the authorities - I would suggest you gather some factual evidence first though as there is DEFINITELY a law against defaming businesses and people in the UAE.

Good luck!

SOPs indeed, slip of the finger:O

[nonsense]

Can't argue with your points made no nonsense...
Who's this "no nonsense" character? My nick is "nonsense"; a fair warning to all to take everything written by any unknown stranger on the internet with a grain of salt.

[harry the cod]

Oblaaspop

Passionate from the perspective of warning others not to give money to a Company you don't even know the owner of. It's not an investment, it's a gamble to get rich quick and these scammers play on ignorance and greed. It's a fools game and history has, and will again show, that some people will just never learn. As for contacting the authorities, I'll leave that for the victims when the time comes.

If I was a gambling man, I'd even go so far as to say you might have a small dog in this race Oblaaspop, no?

Harry

[RHINO]

Court upholds 'giant Ponzi scheme' architect's 10-year sentence - Citywire Money (http://citywire.co.uk/money/court-upholds-giant-ponzi-scheme-architects-10-year-sentence/a862677?re=37292&ea=96581&utm_source=BulkEmail_Money_Daily_Summary&utm_medium=BulkEmail_Money_Daily_Summary&utm_campaign=BulkEmail_Money_Daily_Summary)

[Payscale]

Only 20%!! "Our" Ponzi guys will make you 100%++....
It may collapse today, tomorrow or in 5 year. Its all depends on the influx of willing "investors"....
I burned my hands in Jamaica so No Thanks for me. I went in because of greed. I now realize the symptoms and stay away from these kind of people.

[You rock]

Good evening everyone

Thought the link I am posting is relevant considering people are starting to rave about UT markets and the returns they are showing.

Check the link out and make your own minds up.


http://www.fca.org.uk/news/warnings/united-trading-markets

Kind regards

YR




Only 20%!! "Our" Ponzi guys will make you 100%++....
It may collapse today, tomorrow or in 5 year. Its all depends on the influx of willing "investors"....
I burned my hands in Jamaica so No Thanks for me. I went in because of greed. I now realize the symptoms and stay away from these kind of people.

[vfr on top]

Been with UTMarkets for a few months now. No complaints. Returns exact as advertised...

[You rock]

Dear VFR

I am not trying too debunk UT Markets, however when the UK FCA are warning people about this company its certainly not a sterling endorsement.

As for you collecting returns good luck too you, I was just posting a link so people could weigh up the risk/return.

[harry the cod]

VFR

That's the way these schemes work.....but people like yourself just don't get it. Actually, you probably do, early into the scam and one of the lucky ones who take the carrot only for those following behind to get the donkey's arse!

UT is being run by the same gang controlling the current ponzi. :ugh:

Harry

[You rock]

Harry

To be fair VFR is risking his or her Monies. They really cannot be admonished. The only difference between me you and him is that he has a vested position.

Yes you can say that any percentage return away from any standard financial instrument paying more than 2 per cent per year is Farsicle.

I will say tho forex is one such investment where pie in the sky returns each month can be achieved.

Clearly an office in Bulgaria has too raise flags from the out set. Putting aside the 10 plus per cent returns a month they claim.

Everyone has a choice where to park their cash. Some of us choose the ice box others choose banks and some of us choose Igor in Sofia Bulgaria.

Fellas I don't have any financial prowess but I do have a chook that lays golden nuggets. I am taking early adopter investors. Any one interested please send cash first and then we can talk.

Peace too all

VFR

That's the way these schemes work.....but people like yourself just don't get it. Actually, you probably do, early into the scam and one of the lucky ones who take the carrot only for those following behind to get the donkey's arse!

UT is being run by the same gang controlling the current ponzi. :ugh:

Harry

[Econ101]

Probably too late to get your money out if you were one with a „no risk no reward” attitude. You can try to recoup something before the authorities close it down, or they vanish with your money.

Good Luck


Investors warned over ‘double your cash’ scams in Dubai (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/investors-warned-over-double-your-cash-scams-in-dubai#full)
Nick Webster
January 6, 2016

DUBAI // Amateur investors are being targeted by financial conmen offering to double their money in foreign currency exchange trading.

In fact, financial experts say the “forex” funds don’t exist: they are Ponzi schemes, in which new investors’ cash is used to pay returns to existing investors, and could collapse at any moment.

“I could probably find 40 in a couple of hours, just in Dubai,” said Sam Instone, chief executive of AES International financial advisers. “If they are allowed to get away with it, these kind of get-rich-quick scams will thrive.

“To the poorly informed, they look genuine. It catches out a lot of people. I hear heartbreaking stories from people like teachers who are often targeted.”

One fund company, with offices in Dubai Media City, promises a return of 110 per cent on an investment of as little as US$20,000, less than Dh75,000.

“Airline cabin crew and teachers are attracted because they can double their salaries by opening two or three accounts. It is built on greed,” said one Lebanese investor who withdrew his money from the fund when he realised it was a scam.

“$20,000 for an investment fund like this is particularly low, that is the attraction. Usually the minimum deposit is nearer $100,000, and pays just 7 per cent a year.
“Offering 110 per cent a year is phenomenal. It is too good to be true, so I got out quickly.”

Even then, he had his deposit returned only after he threatened to contact regulators. “The fund managers were fine at first and paid back my first account,” he said. “But on my second, the communication broke down.”
“I heard nothing and after 35 days I was getting worried,” the investor said.
“I sent them an email and told them I would contact the authorities at Dubai Multi Commodities Centre and within five minutes I had an email and the money was returned the same day. They try to hold on to cash for as long as possible.”

Alina, a former cabin crew member, also invested with the fund, which told her its core business operated from the British Virgin Islands.
“Because the money is held in BVI, it is easy to freeze and transfer to anywhere in the world,” she said. “This is not regulated and it is not a reliable investment.”

She withdrew her investment after reading warnings about the company on an online chat forum for airline staff, but she said many of her colleagues had risked their life savings.
“Many are not financially educated, all they see is their friends making money and they want to join in.”

Alina was also concerned when the fund manager told her it would take up to a month for her to withdraw her cash if she wanted to close her account.
“As soon as you have opened an account and deposited the money, customer services are very difficult to get hold of,” she said.

Brett, an investor from New Zealand, closed his accounts because he had doubts about the legitimacy of the company.
“I asked key questions like how to view live trades and why it took so long to get the money back once accounts were closed,” he said. “They didn’t answer these basic questions, so I closed my accounts.
“It was too risky. I know someone who has three accounts and has borrowed money to invest. If it collapses, he is in serious trouble.”

William Messruther, group manager at the Continental Group of financial advisers in Abu Dhabi, said some of his clients had asked him to withdraw regular savings to invest in what they believe are forex schemes.
“This could all disappear tomorrow. No one even knows where their money is going,” he said.

“It is not a case of if they will collapse, but when. Some people know the risks but are still happy to invest. It is dangerous. The bottom line is people are greedy.”

Investors lost millions when MMA Forex, a Ponzi-like investment scheme in Dubai, collapsed in the summer of 2013. The company’s chief executive, the Pakistani businessman *Malik Awan, was jailed for two years for fraud.

To operate legally, fund managers must be licensed by the Emirates Security and Commodities Authority and the Central Bank.
Legitimate websites will clearly state the name of the regulator that oversees their work, and details of their commercial registration and trade licence.

___________
How to invest safely and avoid high-risk bogus schemes, from AES International.
• Legitimate financial advisers should be able to answer any queries about the financial plan or asset fund, and make it clear what fees will be charged.
• Some countries have no regulation regarding who can provide financial advice. Advisers should be upfront and specific about their experience, knowledge and qualifications, as well as the regulatory framework in which they operate.
• Financial advice should be independent and tailored to your needs, trusted planners would never profess to being investment experts as well. There are many ways of accessing investments without paying for advice and a good company will be able to help you get started.
• A first meeting is all about you and the adviser getting to know each other. It’s an opportunity for you to ask questions. Be wary of anyone trying to sign you up to a plan or product at the first meeting. A decent advisory company will be able to provide more than one happy client referral.
[email protected]

Link> Savers warned to avoid high-risk ponzi schemes in Dubai | The National (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/investors-warned-over-double-your-cash-scams-in-dubai#full)

[nonsense]

...One fund company, with offices in Dubai Media City, promises a return of 110 per cent on an investment of as little as US$20,000, less than Dh75,000.
...
“Airline cabin crew and teachers are attracted because they can double their salaries by opening two or three accounts. It is built on greed,” said one Lebanese investor who withdrew his money from the fund when he realised it was a scam.

“$20,000 for an investment fund like this is particularly low, that is the attraction. Usually the minimum deposit is nearer $100,000, and pays just 7 per cent a year.
“Offering 110 per cent a year is phenomenal. It is too good to be true, so I got out quickly.”
...
Alina, a former cabin crew member ... withdrew her investment after reading warnings about the company on an online chat forum for airline staff, but she said many of her colleagues had risked their life savings.

Pretty clearly this is the same crowd we've been discussing.
Any doubters still want to argue it's not a Ponzi scheme?

[Econ101]

Hope most of you had time to get out.

If we get a bonus this year, do yourself a favour and buy the wife a ring, or yourself a new car. At least you will be able to offload it down the line.


Investors tell of worry as bogus Dubai ‘ponzi scheme’ payouts dry up (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/investors-tell-of-worry-as-bogus-dubai-ponzi-scheme-payouts-dry-up)
The National, March 19, 2016


DUBAI // The net is tightening around rogue investment schemes in Dubai that have been milking hundreds of thousands of dirhams out of low-income workers who were duped with promises of big returns.

Investors who have pumped tens of thousands of US dollars into such “Ponzi" schemes claimed they were facing financial ruin and have reported matters to Dubai courts.

Financial advisers aired concerns in an article in The National in January following a growing demand for investments in foreign exchange funds they said were offering profits that were too good to be true.

That is proving to be the case, with investors claiming that they are owed thousands and that have not been paid since November.

Bogus traders lured investors with the promise of 110 per cent returns on foreign exchange markets, but are suspected of simply redistributing funds from new investors – a Ponzi scheme.

Jennifer, a 26-year-old Filipina who works for a cleaning company in Dubai, invested US$50,000 (Dh183,647) - almost 20 times her monthly wage.

With three of her friends, they invested $25,000 each with one investment group in Dubai in May last year, while she alone invested another $25,000 elsewhere. “For the first five months, they paid out after 15 working days and were never late," she said.

“After November, things slowed down and we stopped getting paid. We had a relationship manager who said a problem with international banking was causing delays.

“I invested my savings and, like my friends, I’ve taken a bank loan to invest this money."

Net profits each month would range from between $1,700 and $2,100 and were achieved by trading in foreign currencies, according to the relationship managers.

Investors could not view live trading information, but were given retrospective access to trading performance.

One investor said: “I started my investment with my broker in Media City in April last year. Money was good and trades and profits were conservative until December and January.

“They have a policy in our written agreement that states that when you initiate your withdrawal on the first of the month, you will receive the transfer after 15 working days.

“For two months in a row, they failed to fulfil this policy, and I have started to doubt their credibility. They said the delay would either be the holidays either here in UAE and where their bank is in Australia, or because of banking limitations."

Financial advisers said that the scams have been widespread for years in Dubai and that investors risked losing everything should the funding for the schemes collapse.

Those found breaking the law can be hit with a three-year jail term and fines of up to Dh30,000.

One company advertising services as a foreign currency trader does supply documents to interested investors and a Department of Economic Development licence is clearly displayed on its literature. This allows it to trade in investment in commercial enterprises and management, but the company has no licence to perform as a trader.

Other documents showed phone numbers that were either out of service or went unanswered.

The UAE bans anyone from opening companies without a licence, but rogue operators continue to break the law, according to Yousef Al Bahar, a lawyer from Al Bahar and Associates who said investors were targeted on social media.

“Customers have to ask about the company with authorities to double-check their licence and what activities they are authorised to carry out.

“Customers who are scammed must report these companies to police and submit evidence."

Dubai Police said that such complaints should be addressed to the anti-economic crimes department on 800 800243, or email [email protected].


Source:
Investors tell of worry as ponzi scheme payouts dry up | The National (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/investors-tell-of-worry-as-bogus-dubai-ponzi-scheme-payouts-dry-up)

[johnjonesnine]

If any of you have HARD factual evidence that Exential is a DEFINATELY a ponzi, please share.

I have 37 years experience in banking, insurance and investments. I hold primary and masters degrees in financial disciplines from reputable universities. I am a member in good standing of an insurance institute and a banking institute. Oh, and I have nothing to sell any of you!


The hard factual evidence is right in front of you, but you have to know it to see it.


If the promoters of this scheme could really deliver the rates of return that they promise then they would themselves be billionaires, sitting in the corner offices of a Wall Street investment bank. Instead, they in dusty Dubai selling financial fairy tales to people who, though they may be making good money, are not (like 99% of the population) financially literate.

[harry the cod]

Exential latest.

A quick heads up for those still 'invested'. Have been told that this 'Company' is now looking for a further 25% injection of your hard earned money to increase the returns. Sadly, there will be some that will fall for this too! :=

Please, do yourselves a huge favour and exit while you still have a chance of recovering something.

Harry

[MJDXB]

Hi, couldn't agree more! Especially the current situation is very frustrating. Any new news about the current situation? No payouts since month! :/



Very gods news that someone is looking into this. I see a lot of potential victims in this type of environment.

I have nothing to do with it, and won't be of any help.

But it would be greatly appreciated if you could let us know when you publish something.

Good luck

[Wizofoz]

Any new news about the current situation?

Yes,

The news is a fool and his money are soon parted.

[Econ101]

Harry: I have realised people are adverse to sound advice and warnings – they only learn from their own mistakes.

Wizofoz : Indeed, a fool and his money are soon parted. Sooner than some expect.

MJDXB : In classic Ponzi style, when too many people want to close accounts: the scheme collapses.
Clients of Ex**** have apparently not received money since the end of 2015.

Earlier this year they requested that all clients sign a new contract that does not specify a max. time frame for returning their initial principal/$20000 account. Previously they had 20 days to contractually return your money after an account closure.

If you did not sign the NEW contract you were warned you would receive no new profits etc. Some lawsuits were filed by clients for breach of contract – cases still pending in DXB courts.

Those who trusted and signed the NEW contract in the hope to continue receiving so called ' profits' from the Golden Goose have been sourly disappointed and now have limited contractual rights to pursue legal recourse.

Any profits are just being rolled over and the clients balances are increasing only on paper, your 20k account is now 25k. No transfers to bank accounts. No money.
If you attempted to close your account you had been informed would take a minimum 9 months – during which time your are not entitled to the so called monthly (now quarterly) profit.

Current account closures are now asked to wait a minimum of 12 months for their money. Most realise they will never see anymore money – EVER

Many collective cases in the courts at the moment to attempt and get at least some money back.

Everything points to insolvency. Interestingly the office is still functioning – only taking complaints though.

The smart ones have now chalked it up as a learning experience. Others have senselessly taken loans to open with UT markets to recoup losses. Unbelievable! Unfortunately they seem to have doubled down and will now lose even more.



Fool us once, shame on you; fool us twice, shame on us.


The new kid on the block: UT Markets appeared late 2015. They promised 100% return in 6months. Despite warnings from the FCA, it caught on, but thankfully not to the scale of Ex*********

The early few would have now luckily received their original money back through monthly profits. No loss if they did not reinvest. The original principal is still tied up in account numbers received by whats up message. UT clients transferred their hard earned money to various Banks across Eastern Europe. Predictably, greed has led many to pour even more money into this Ponzi instead of banking any 'profits' – this is exactly how these schemes operate.

UT has skimmed all it can, although monthly profits still being paid to some, currently withdrawal of principal or closure of an account is impossible due to them stating "UNAVOIDABLE DELAYS".

Same thing happened at our last Ponzi scheme and it was the start of the end.

Many crew finally opening their eyes and fear is now overtaking greed.
Ex***** investors now openly talking about losing their money and warning others.
Safar article: warning from EK security department etc..
People actually researching and using google prior to joining

UT is on the ropes and only some will get out unscathed.

Good luck to you all. You were warned – several times actually.

Hopefully this will be the end of these Forex Scams in our community – at least for some time.......

Fool us once, shame on you; fool us twice, shame on us.

[High 6]

Has anyone had experience with Pacific Tycoon, a company that sells and leases containers in Hong Kong.... promising huge returns paid monthly on your investment of $4000 USD per container which they then lease out. Is this another "too good to be true" fairy tale?

[motojet]

Go for it High 6. Sounds like a great deal.

[Econ101]

Today Exe***** Offices officially closed and sealed by Dubai Department of Economic Development!

http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/attachments/received_10154229189573726-jpeg.26321/
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/attachments/received_10154229189533726-jpeg.26320/

Everyone now realising UT Markets is headed down the same path. Recent technical problems paying out profits...and the "UNAVOIDABLE DELAYS" emails when you try and close your account.

Ex***** at least had an office and claimed only :) 100% return a year.
UT operates through whats up and claims 200%+ pa. Plus min $US500 commission on each new client you suck into the ponzi - Did you really think they would be around for more than a year..........shame on anyone involved!

[Kamelchaser]

Where is Michigan777flyer in all this now? A year ago he was waxing lyrical about the scheme he was in being completely genuine..and about how much money he was making.

So what's your take on this now Michigan? Do you sleep well at night with your Porsche parked in the garage knowing you've destroyed the lives of some of the people you convinced to join these "amazing investments"? Man you're a piece of work.

[Econ101]

AMwcEjJlZhs

[777boyindubai]

http://m.thenational.ae/uae/financial-regulators-shut-down-currency-scheme-in-dubai

[Econ101]

http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/attachments/shutdown-jpg.26382/

Full article: Financial regulators shut down currency scheme in Dubai | The National (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/financial-regulators-shut-down-currency-scheme-in-dubai)

[Econ101]

Exential investors tell of how losses have affected their life plans

The National staff July 20, 2016


DUBAI // Many investors feared it was too good to be true but were happy to spin the wheel of fortune on foreign exchange currency schemes promising 120 per cent annual returns.

Airline cabin crew were one of the key groups targeted in Dubai by other investors to encourage more people to open up accounts with Exential.

Federico Tarragona, 35, a Dubai-based cabin crew member for eight years, was hoping profits would pay for his wedding, but those plans are now on hold.

Earning an average Dh10,000 a month, he borrowed Dh250,000 to invest in three accounts.

“It has affected my life, and the lives of so many others," he said.

“We’ve been told it is a civil case and there is nothing the police can do to help.

“When I opened the account, the agreement said if I wanted to close the account, they must pay in 20 working days.

“I have waited two months and had nothing. Now I’m being told I must wait even longer, and even then it is not guaranteed.

“I was investing to move forward in life. That is why I took such a risk. I wanted to get married and start a family. It has been a game changer, it has changed my life.

“Like many others, I have a big loan, so my income has halved because I’m paying back the loan."

Simon, who also works for a Dubai airline and earns Dh15,000 a month, invested Dh150,000.

“So many colleagues have done the same thing. From what I understand, they have more than 7,000 clients."

Another cabin crew member, Kadir Gures, 33, from Turkey, earns Dh18,000 a month and has lost Dh147,000.

“There are lots of young cabin crew and, as soon as we get to know each other, Exential becomes the topic of conversation," he said.

“People ask how many accounts they have and how much money they have made."

He added that “they were buying houses and doing amazing things with their money, so I thought I would try.

“So many borrowed money, it will leave them with a burden and if they can’t repay the loans they will have to leave."

Full article: Exential investors tell of how losses have affected their life plans | The National (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/exential-investors-tell-of-how-losses-have-affected-their-life-plans)

[SOPS]

" if they can't repay the loans they will have to leave".....that could be somewhat problematic.

[Trader]

Yup, if they are smart they will skip town and go home. But there are SO many from EK involved that it will certainly have an effect on the company.

[ExDubai]

10 K salary and 250 K borrowed...... Run Forrest run...

[3Greens]

Will they even let you out of DXB say to go on holiday, if you have a large loan to repay?

[ExDubai]

As long as you pay the monthly installments yes. If you miss a payment, things could get difficult. Don't know the actual policy, a couple of years ago they took the passport.

[exekcabincrew]

Look, with all due respect to all involved...

But you have to be an absolute idiot to borrow 25X your salary to invest in something that promises to yield 120% a year. Why isn't HH investing his billions with these guys then?.. Kinda begs the question, right? All normal investment funds yield like 5%..

Then you also have to be an absolute a**hole to lend 250K just like that to someone without even asking the person what he\she want to invest in!.. The banks really don't care, they just want to give out loans! On one side it's good for experienced investors, but then you will have these stories of rookies who are scr*wed for the rest of their life!

UAE is all about speculation and no real wealth creation.. So all these behaviors really fit into UAE culture. People get mind-drunk with all the fancy cars, flashy parties, condos and everyone wants to get rich. And they want to get rich fast. So these stories will keep happening forever, there is no way to stop this.

My personal advice to the 250K guy, pack your stuff and disappear!

[Maverick797]

It were so obvious weeks ago when UT ran out of new joiners, hence they promoted a 7% bonus on every new account to keep the Ponzi scheme running as much as possible !!! It is collapsed now and they trading in their fake software showing thousands of dollars loss till they will dry all the accounts. Now officially account termination takes at least 2-3 months just a new Exential and the thing is the UT markets is also undercover is the new company called FX-Expert [/color][/b]
[b][color=#0000ff]They share the same IP address and location in Bulgaria & most UT clients received a call from them.
Here is how it were promoted by the UT Facebook groups admins days before they collapse

Great offer: for limited time only
- 7% bonus when opening new account!
Example: you open 20k account u receive 21.4k credit in your account.
- 100% commission back for 20k+ 50% back for 10k account
- 5% bonus on accounts upgrades
Example:
*you top up 10k you receive 500$ bonus as credit in your account = 10.5k,
*you top up 40k you receiver 2 k bonus as credit in your account = 42k

[Econ101]

I was wondering why nobody has been flashing around their "Magic FX APP" in the cockpit for the past week!

It used to show big green numbers and arrows pointing upward. Come join they said.

Turns out, all it shows now is, RED

UT have stopped paying any "profits" - banking delays. Sound familiar.

UT refuse any account terminations/closures - banking limitations. Sound familiar.

UT ask for patience give them 3-6 months ....pretty please.

WHEN WILL EVERYONE FINALLY LEARN. Stay away from Ponzi schemes.


Letter sent out today in an attempt to quell the panic:

Dear Customer,

We apologize for a slow reply.

Due to an overwhelming amount of Whatsapp messages and emails (over 1000 messages and emails per agent) and phone constantly ringing we just cannot keep up physically with replying. Please read the below, we wish to cover all the points and questions our clients have and put their mind at ease that we are not ignoring anybody and working here to keep UTM going.

Important note - please save our number in your Whatsapp - if we send too many messages to numbers that do not have our number saved it will block our Whatsapp for four hours - we do not need any extra delays at the moment - please save the number.

Are you waiting for a withdrawal or commission for more than seven working days?

It is highly likely the money has bounced back due to our daily limits. We are in the process of checking all bounce backs and will re-wire the funds to the same account. Please check with your bank too in case there is a pending transfer. We will only contact a client if the bounce back is due to an error on their part such as bank details - all other bounce backs we will take care of but will not be sending any confirmation out - please work with us - the funds will arrive.

Have you made a withdrawal request and the funds have not been removed from your trading account within the last 24 hours?

Due to the daily limits and the long line of bounce backs we will only begin a withdrawal when we can fit it within the daily limit.

Losing trades and open trades

Losing trades unfortunately cannot be avoided, and please do not be alarmed when you see an open trade in action - open trades change your equity constantly. - UTM will find the right time to close it. We keep a trade open, even if it is losing, because a small movement upwards could cancel out the loss and move it into positive.

In the client contract you will see that there is a risk disclosure meaning you have agreed for UTM to trade on your behalf and take risks in the market - we will of course try our best for clients.

During live trading (when a trade is open) we cannot facilitate withdrawals or terminations because the platform will not allow it.

Please note - we cannot close individual clients trades because we trade as a group.

Down grading an account

Current platform rules do not allow downgrades below your platform level. For example, if you have 45000 USD in your account, the maximum you can withdraw is 5000 USD. To withdraw more money, clients must make a full termination by completing a withdrawal as usual, but entering your full balance. However - please read the section below on terminations.

Termination (closing an account)

Currently, due to the high volume of terminations, and bank limits, terminations cannot be processed at the moment. We estimate it will take two to three months before we can do so.

Top up and new clients

For now, just as with outgoing money, we have a limit on incoming funds too. Please bear with us until we can accommodate these.

Payment providers

Please note that Moneynet and Wire2Pay are only payment providers for UTM. ALL queries MUST come only to UT Markets - please do not contact payment providers.

What to do now?

For now, we advise to keep your account trading, we will try our best to trade as best as we can to recover from the unfortunate losing trades recently - and are working hard to get things running perfectly at UTM again.

We kindly ask you to please work with us, let us focus on dealing with the high volume of bounce backs and messages we have to clear at the moment - we really want to keep communication lines open with clients but cannot keep up, hence this message to try and cover all points.

We urge you to please stay away from the Chinese whispers and rumors on social media websites such as Facebook. This message we hope has covered all points - clients with individual questions please feel to reach out to us - we will respond as fast as we can.

We will be sending regular updates like this to keep you informed.

Lastly, a kind request...we ask you to acknowledge that exceptions cannot be made - all UTM clients are treated equally and we will have to work with the current limits and rules for all clients.

Regards from the UT Markets team.

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Guess what, no one is answering any queries, phones dead. Excuse: Staff all on leave.

In the words of Queen, it seems "Another one bites the dust...."

[Maverick797]

Belive it or not many many still defending UT & they can not even get their profits nor the capitals.

[Maverick797]

The end for UT live now drying all the accounts to 0 soon.

[SOPS]

I don't understand those figures but I do know it's a ponzi.

[marniplod]

Does this seem familiar EuroFX

How British firms built a pyramid scheme in China that lost millions (http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/china-investment-eurofx/)

[Aluminium shuffler]

Amazing. We now have ads from these folks popping up on this very forum - bforex, promising $1500ish profit a week.

[Pointer]

nothing to do with investment, GREED.. thats all it was and all players were in for it..
I had several types come to the FD to ask advice, explained to them the ponzi scheme principle.. still they could only talk about their friend buying an apartment with the 'profit'.. and they wanted it as well.. stupid

[nonsense]

April 2018 principals sentenced to 500+ years. (http://www.rascott.com/2018/04/10/exential-is-a-classic-dubai-tale-of-greed/)
June 2018, sentences to be appealed, wife insists scammers caused panic, causing run on money invested. (https://www.arabianbusiness.com/banking-finance/398100-convicted-exential-group-scammer-plans-to-appeal-500-year-sentence)
August 2020, some money may be recovered in BVI. Sydney Lemos and Ryan Fernandez remain in prison serving 513-year sentences. So far, they are the only convictions in what is known by investigators to be a complex global network of fraudsters. (https://www.thenational.ae/uae/courts/hope-for-victims-of-dh1-8bn-exential-currency-scam-as-financial-resolution-edges-closer-1.1059799)

[nonsense]

New York instead of Dubai, cryptocurrency as well as Forex, but essentially the very same "business" model, busted by the FBI, with US$250million "invested" between September 2021 and May 2022, and assets of about $170million apparently remaining:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/07/22/crypto-ponzi-scheme-eminifx/

[oldpax]

The guy who ran the Ponzi scheme I was in ran it from Turkey,his wife was Turkish and thats where one of the banks he used was.He gave himself up after certain clients threatened him and seemed to know where he was all the time.So the fraud squad at the "yard"started asking for statements etc from ex clients.
I obliged with all my e mails and statements etc.It took some three years to get him to court and he got five years!Almost time for him to come out now,meanwhile his son is looking after his interests.
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