Merged: The trials and tribulation of Bankstown Airport

[dhavillandpilot]

On tonight's news the Labour Party announced their policy was to close YSBK and turn it into an Industrial park.

They just have no ideal. More than half of it is already that and what about all the union members who will lose their aviation jobs if this happens.

I had seriously thought of voting Labour instead of Abbot, but why would I bother

[gerry111]

dhavillandpilot,


Any chance of a link for the rest of us literate people to read about that?

[dhavillandpilot]

It was on the abc 1730 news announced as policy

[Like This - Do That]

The announcement was in Luke Foley's bookface feed. I call BS, it looks like having something to throw the 24 hour news cycle.

Move GA ops to Badgerys Creek? I can see that working our just great ...:ugh:

[TBM-Legend]

Beware of the snakes in the grass..

Opposition leader Luke Foley to deliver NSW budget reply - 9news.com.au (http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/06/25/03/38/foley-to-deliver-nsw-budget-reply)

[Dick Smith]

In the June issue of AVIATOR Magazine, the CEO of Bankstown Airport, Colin Grove, has been quoted as follows:

According to Grove, the biggest challenge he faces is what he describes as the decline in GA. “We are very aware that many of the traditional business models that drive the industry are no longer viable and some businesses are definitely struggling. If the industry is to remain financially viable then Governments will need to seriously address the concerns raised by the various industry peak bodies such as AOPA and the RAAA and there will need to be a complete mindset change in how regulations are imposed and a transparent assessment of the impact they have on the aviation industry.”

Never have truer words been spoken!

Of course, there are many who will put some of the blame on the owners of Bankstown Airport but that blame has to go back to John Anderson and the people in the Department of Transport at that time for the way they sold-off Bankstown Airport.

What’s more to the point is that if CASA went ahead with reforming the rules so they were as efficient as those in other leading aviation countries, such as the USA and Canada, we would not have some of the problems at Bankstown.

Last time I walked around Bankstown Airport many of the hangar doors were chained and the hangars themselves were being used just to store junk inside and I am told by everyone that it’s getting worse.

It’s interesting that Warren Truss makes no statements about the dire straits the industry is in and in an address by CASA Director of Aviation Safety, Mark Skidmore, at the AOPA gathering at Bankstown Airport last Saturday (20 June), once again there was no mention of removing every unnecessary cost.

A good start would be for Warren Truss to put on an advisor who clearly understands the dismal situation our general aviation industry is in. Over the years I have recommended some capable people for the role of Aviation Advisor but not one has ever been interviewed.

I see no changes at all on the horizon with Mr Truss as Minister and Mr Mrdak as Head of the Department. Does anyone have a more positive view?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Is not this Mr Luke Foley a member of the NSW Labor Party?

Is this the same Mr Foley who wants the 'Uber' 'taxy industry' to be made legal, because it is here...?
(Radio 2GB this morning)

Are the NSW Labor Party the ones 'in power'..??


Is not YSBK still the property, leased out / administered by the Federal Govt?

According to the terms of the leases when the airports were 'sold off', they are required to be run as AIRPORTS for the term of the lease...??

Yes..??

Cheers :rolleyes:

Resume normal viewing.......:ugh:

[BPA]

Dick,

For once I fully support what you have written. I started out at Bankstown in the mid 80's when the place was full of life. Recently I went back there on a fine Saturday afternoon and in the 30 mins I was there I saw only 2 aicraft arrive and depart. Also noticed multiple buldings with for lease signs on them.
It's time for the government and CASA to act before it's to late.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Dick,

I too completely agree with you.

[TBM-Legend]

Any negativity will reduce investment in my opinion and therefore the place stalls as an airport..

[Popgun]

I completely agree. Aviation is a long neglected portfolio that doesn't have any political clout.

YSBK is a sad shadow of its former self. I tried to get a coffee one recent afternoon about 2.30pm but was told the shop regularly closes early as there is usually no one around. Camden and Wedderburn is where some of the activity has moved.

Quite a contrast to the more vibrant GA and RA scene in NZ.

PG

[Clare Prop]

It was Keating's lot who decided to flog off leases to run the airports. It was Howard's lot who awarded those leases to property developers interested only in land banks close to capital cities. So both sides of politics are to blame and the obvious outcome, GA being gouged to within an inch of its life, was inevitable.

We have Sussan Ley who was a CPL and ATC and is now ... Minister for Sport. She would be ideal to be put in a position of influence for aviation but seeing as they haven't stuck to a single word of their pre-election aviation policy, don't expect anything from this government.

The tilt up concrete monstrosities and traffic jams at Jandakot get worse every day and are a testament to the greed of the developers and Peter Garrett's approval for them to bulldoze hundreds of hectares of pristine bush.

:mad::mad:

[Horatio Leafblower]

I tried to discuss aviation policy with Sussan Ley about 12-18 months ago.

I got the feeling she was very, VERY uncomfortable and didn't want to have the discussion :*

[MadMadMike]

When a 172 costs nearly $400 an hour dual and the the age of most students are facing the reality of half a million dollars to buy a studio apartment in Sydney is it any wonder that students have evaporated. The cost to reward ratio is not there.

[Mail-man]

It beggars belief. With 200,000+ new pilots estimated to service Asia by 2035 the government should be investing in long term GA training, in a metropolitan area, and a viable industry model. Isn't one of our main exports education? We should embrace what neglected infrastructure remains and improve upon it.

[Squawk7700]

Like it or not the future of training establishments lies within regional areas. In Victoria you only have to look at the likes of Mangalore and Bendigo so see where things are headed. Metro property prices are destroying our realestate markets for locals and this is making the developers go crazy about purchasing big "vacant" chunks of land. The Chinese all want NEW places to live and 10+ year old houses and apartments simply aren't good enough for them.

[thorn bird]

"Is not YSBK still the property, leased out / administered by the Federal Govt?

According to the terms of the leases when the airports were 'sold off', they are required to be run as AIRPORTS for the term of the lease...??

errr??? s'cus me,

Sorry FSO, the airports act I believe your alluding to??

Hoxton Park was a federal Airport unless I'm mistaken? Gone like a fart in a thunderstorm.

Political party donations, retirement jobs for Politicians and senior Bureaucrats grease a lot of wheels.

You sure the airports act will protect Secondary Airports?

It is after all billions of $$$ of green field vacant land we are talking about, that sort of money buys a lot of corruption..oops sorry political influence.

How many other requirements of the "Act" relating to ownership have been conveniently swept under the table, Money talks!!!

[UnderneathTheRadar]

The Chinese all want NEW places to live and 10+ year old houses and apartments simply aren't good enough for them.

Good sterotyping rant but they're not allowed to buy anything that isn't new under the FIRB rules....

[capt.cynical]

Clare


Susan Ley is the Minister for Health not Sport.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Capt Cynical

It's Sussan ;-)

...and I am pretty sure she's assistant minister for health.

...wouldn't it be nice if she was parl sec for Aviation?

[Pinky the pilot]

wouldn't it be nice if she was parl sec for Aviation?

Agreed, Horatio! Would be even better if she was named eventually as a Minister for Civil Aviation!:ok:

But it will never happen, because there are no votes in it!!!:*:mad::*:mad:

And this Federal Government has no vision or guts!:mad::mad::mad:

To be fair, neither would Labor if they were in power. (FM, what a horrible thought!!!:eek:)

[Horatio Leafblower]

...and I am pretty sure she's assistant minister for health.


You are right, I am wrong, but CLare Prop is right too - Sussan is Minister for Health AND Minister for Sport. :ok:

[Wunwing]

No one has been appointed Transport Minister in about 30 years unless they meet the following criteria.

Labor, Aircraft noise impacted electorate.

Liberal/National. National who therefore has an interest in exporting high value agriculture products.

I have said on this forum many times, until we get a Transport Minister who actually has a 1st priority of making Aviation work, we will continue the slide to oblivion. And I dont expect to see such a Minister in my lifetime.

Wunwing

[kimwestt]

And just how many times is the tax payer expected to "repay" the cost of the Bankstown Airport to the bureaucrats?
In the early 80's, you were struggling to find a parking spot for anything, and that was on the grass.
Enter the privatisation system.
Rents through the roof - the Clamback and Hennessey debacle, just for one instance, parking charges outrageous, etc, etc.
BAL were charging operators to park that operators own aircraft on land that the operator was leasing from the BAL. Sheesh. Was it leased land that the lessee wasn't allowed to access? That'd be BAL all over. A subsequent operator wanted to lease part of a hangar, NO - YOU CAN'T USE THE TOILET OR WASHROOM, THAT'LL BE ANOTHER $1000 A MONTH, THANKS.
Another long term (20+years) had their hangar door locked because they refused to stump 12 months lease in advance as "security". And no, no previous consultation about the changed rules. BAL had to have a Supreme Court npotice of Breach of Contract before the doors were unlocked.
I wanted my past boss to sue BAL. we got to a couple of $mill, but he backed out, didn't want to upset the apple cart.
HOW LONG, JUST HOW LONG IS THE INDUSTRY GOING TO ALLOW ITSELF TO BE SHAFTED BY THE UNCONSCIONABLE CONDUCT BEING FOISTED UPON THEM.
How many times have we seen the call to arms to stand together and oppose this bastardry, only to see it fall apart, because some operators have too much self interest to allow themselves to act for the greater good?
Perhaps now it is time.
What was that saying about bad things happen when good people do nothing??

[Lead Balloon]

Socialist propaganda, kim.

Bankstown was built by private enterprise.

It's not fair that the people who built Bankstown, by putting their own assets at risk, should now have to let freeloaders use the place.

The aviation operators at and the pilots who fly in and out of Bankstown might have some credibility if they contributed in some way - income taxes, exise, consumption taxes, ad valorem stamp duties etc. But - c'mon: We all know that they're just freeloaders.

I'm alert to the potential for you to be a terrorist. :=

[thorn bird]

Kim hear hear !

"Bankstown was built by private enterprise".

Really???

"The aviation operators at and the pilots who fly in and out of Bankstown might have some credibility if they contributed in some way"

Err, landing fees, parking fees, rent way above local commercial rates.

Bal is in a holding pattern, unfortunately time has caught up with it.

It failed to get rid of aviation in time to reap the benefits.

So we have a change of the guard, the airport is for sale at exactly the same dollars BAL owes its creditors.

Same shonks, same corruption, different names will accept the baton.

Bankstown is finished, worth too much unfortunately.

Political donations, retirement jobs, free farms in NZ will ensure the development sharks get their way.

[kimwestt]

But, what an opportunity, for the Govt to resume ownership of the aforesaid airport, for the cost of BAL's debts, and return it to its rightful place, that of being AN AIRPORT, for an airport, by an airport. No Landlord thugs running around dictating terms and conditions to the hapless tenants.
Sure, it would need a solid and viable business model to operate against, and again, the danger of an empire builder looms large.
With the likes of Dick Smith et al, there should be little trouble in developing a sustainable operation that would benefit all. The Fuehrer comes to mind, but he has probably had more than a gutful of BK.
We can only hope.:):)

[Clare Prop]

Well..the Feds put in the runways, taxiways and tower. Most of the hangars etc WERE developed by private enterprise. The GAIT fees and fuel levy used to cover the use of the government owned part of the facilities.

The leases the tenants had on the ground they had developed weren't good enough protection from the developers refusing to renew them, even though the tenants had put up the buildings (or bought them from someone who had) themselves at their own risk, some found themselves forced to rent back their own property.

We have had plenty of bastardry here at Jandakot too and what used to be a pleasant drive through some lovely undulating banksia forest is now a snarl of stationary traffic surrounded by a concrete jungle. A testament to greed...and the duplicity of Peter Garrett signing off on the clearing.

[thorn bird]

Clare,
what happened at Jandakot is a national disgrace, has anyone looked at what political "donations" where made by the developers?

The thing is, with these very cashed up development sharks chomping great chunks out of the airports, if by some miracle the government decides the country actually needs an aviation industry, gets CAsA and all the other parasites under control and the industry has a renaissance and starts to grow, the land that was there for that growth aint there.
I could be wrong, but its been suggested that land that could have been used for a second runway at Perth is now covered with industrial parks which leaves the government a dilemma, massive costs to resume land for growth, or leave the industry stunted and shackled from lack of space.

Someone, somewhere had very little foresight. Short term $$$ for long term grief. Ahh, directorships, farms in NZ, political donations super topups, all tend to blind foresight.

[Clare Prop]

When Ascot capital took over the Jandakot lease they hired a firm called "Arid consultants" whose job it was to spread the word what a great idea it was to "move" Jandakot down to North Dandalup and convince the "stakeholders".

These people were silly enough to start their pitch with the Jandakot tenants so we were all offside straight away with their silly talk about how the A380 would mean we couldn't operate at the Jandakot site etc etc and their total lack of knowledge about aviation, The Airports Act or the head lease. Things that we, as part of a consortium who had bid for the lease, were very familiar with. They also ruffled a lot of feathers amongst the rural and horsey folk in North Dandalup, one of whom started a very vocal action group called FLORA. All their "community meetings" were pretty much sabotaged by hecklers. :E:E

Some of us were able to find out pretty easily that these Arid people were also big noises in the WA Nationals. We got hold of Brendan Grylls' mobile number and he must have got pretty sick of some of the repetitive phone calls he got. :E:E particularly what this would do to the RFDS.

The state and federal (Carmen Lawrence) Labor MPs were pretty quiet about it all apart from Allanah McTiernan who was then WA Minister for Transport and didn't support the idea. It was Judith Adams (RIP) and Don Randall from the Federal Libs and Tony Simpson from the WA Libs who were on the tenants' side. So I doubt they were getting any donations.

[Clare Prop]

Yes Thorn Bird they are doing everything they can to hem in and minimise the aviation area, have turned aviation land into "mixed use" and ensure that any future expansion will be impossible.

And don't get me started on Peter Garrett's role in all this.... :mad: