Licence Questions

[rich49]

Hi,
I'm sorry if these questions seem a little daft but could I ask for some help?
I plan to go to university to study aerospace systems engineering, and I have wanted to become an airline pilot since I could walk, however I have always concentrated on a sponsorship from an airline and have only just begun to look into the self financed route. Firstly after leaving University I probably will be in debt, will this affect my position in gaining a sponsorship?
I plan to apply for a sponsorship and an engineering postition at the same time, that way I'm not just sitting around unemployed!

1)What licences do I need to obtain to become an airline pilot?
2)What is the cost, and how do I pay-even with a job it still looks daunting.
3)How do I build hours I hear you need multi pilot time on a turbine? How do you even do that!!!
4) How do get type rated on an aircraft is that included in the course or is it seperate?
Basicly, how do you become a pilot???
Again I'm sorry if these questions seem daft but I've got to find out from somewere.
Thank you for your time.
Rich

[foghorn]

Hi there,

You need a Commercial Pilot Licence (Aeroplanes) with a Multi-Engine Single Pilot Instrument Rating, usually called a CPL/IR

Your also have to have passes in all of the Air Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL) theory exams - having CPL/IR with the ATPL theory exams is often referred to as a Frozen ATPL.

This is the minimum qualification that airlines require for you to fly for them. Most people add on an extra MCC course (Multi Crew Co-operation) as an extra foot-in-the-door.

Assuming you do the majority of your training in the Europe, there are two ways to this licence:

Integrated

Do 15 months study and flying full time

End product: Frozen ATPL + MCC and 200 hours
Cost: £45-60,000 assuming no overruns, depending on choice of school and location.

Modular

Do a Private Pilot Licence
Build your experience to 100 hours Pilot In Command
Do the ATPL Theory course and exams by distance learning or full time
Do the CPL
Get the Multi Engine Piston rating
Do the Instrument Rating
Do the MCC

You can mix and match schools and even do some of the modules concurrently or in a slightly different order

End product: Frozen ATPL + MCC and 220ish hours

Cost: absolute minimum £30,000, usually more.

Once you have the licence, then the fun really starts when you discover that getting the first job is almost as hard as getting your licence. Having more hours sometimes helps: >1,000 seems to open more doors. There are many ways to getting those, the most popular in the UK being instructing for a (paltry) living (but then there's the additional £5,500 cost for the Flight Instructor Rating)

You don't normally need to build hours on a multi-pilot turbine aircraft - however there are schemes in the US where you pay to fly as a First Officer for a small airline. That gives you some nice multi-pilot turbine time in your logbook, however the schemes are of varying repute. There are a few pilots around in the UK who used these to give them a leg up, but for the most part pilots build hours in piston aircraft, usually single engine as an instructor.

Salary-wise, a brand new First Officer is paid £18,000- £34,000 per year, depending on the airline and aircraft size that they are hired to fly.

Hope this helps for a starter.

cheers!
foggy.

[scroggs]

You also mentioned sponsorships. Currently (and for the forseeable future), none of the major UK airlines are sponsoring ab-initio students. That may have changed by the time you leave university - I'm assuming that'll be in four or more years' time.

You will also need a Class 1 medical, which you should take before you commit any money to training. I would advise you also to take the GAPAN (Guild of Air Pilots And Navigators) aptitude tests, which will give you some indication as to your chances of success. Do a search on GAPAN in this forum to learn more.

[rich49]

Ok thanks for the info. I have two more questions:
1) Just to get it straight, a FROZEN ATPL allows you to fly as a first officer (SIC) but when you have built up 2500 hours you obtain a full UNFROZEN ATPL which allows you to be a captain (PIC)? Is this correct?

2) Regarding hour building, do you have to have a type rating to fly a turbine such as a King Air or a business jet? Would this allow hour building as an alternative to instructing or are the requirments to fly air taxi/charter just the same as airlines? Come to think of it, do you have to have a type rating on the particular aircraft that the airline uses that your applying for, if so, is that incorporated into the ATPL training or is this done by the airline after your employed?

Thanks you for your replies.
Richard

[foghorn]

1) Correct, except it's 1500 hours (500 hours of which must be multi crew plus some other minore requirements)

3)Yes, you need a type rating for anything that weighs more than 5.7 tons and many aircraft that weigh less than that. Kingairs and bizjets fall into this category.

It is rare to find low-hour people on bizjets. Kingairs and other small turboprops have been used by low hours people as a route to bigger things, however it's common to have to pay for your own type rating in this sector, and opportunities are generally few and far between in Europe. This is partially because the smaller turboprops are flown 2 crew for public transport but single crew for other work - and owners quite rightly want the P1 to be well experienced.

It's best to plan to instruct to hour build, because the number of other hour building options is really very small compared to this.

cheers!
foggy.

[scroggs]

In UK all airlines train you on the type they want you to fly after you join the airline, even if you have a rating on that type already. As for the rest of your questions, download and read this: JAA ATPL Licence Requirements (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_gid25.pdf)