OATS - your having a larff! aren't you?

[nice_beaver]

Just heard from a pal of mine that he's just received a very polite letter from them giving details of their latest price rises. His 19 grand course to help him convert his current experience to a JAA licence is now going to cost 7 grand more.....with my maths that equates to a 37% increase in a oner.
How on earth can they justify this?

[Send Clowns]

Need I say it? Check out SFT instead (contact details in their website (http://www.sft.co.uk))

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Send Clowns. Just out of a sense of fair play please explain what your connection with SFT is please.

Cheers,

WWW

[QUERY]

You have contract (they cannot increase price) or you don't = too f. bad. Plenty of people seem to prefer 'pay-as-you-go' but that means they are not committed, having a larff etc. Is that what happened here?
Good question from WWW- why no answer?

[Si]

The thing is though, and this is MY opinion, is that even though OATS's prices are the highest that you'll find for this training, people will still continue to pay them, maybe in the sense that they feel they are getting something extra....at the end of the day the license you hold will not say an "Oxford" ATPL as opposed to an any other license.

Just because OAT's take in BA and BM cadets everyone feels they should be there with them on the off chance they will be seen, it may happen but chances are very slim!

I definatley don't want to put anyone off the idea and if you feel OAT's is right for you then thats great, I'm sure you'll still enjoy it!

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Si, I think you`ll find that your new ATPL will say JAA on it not Oxford. :D :D :D
If you want to pay such ridiculous prices ...fine....but the CPL/IR test will still be to the same standard where ever you train!

[Si]

Delta Wun-Wun,

Thats what I'm trying to say - that its the same anywhere, so i deffinately won't be going to OATS on those prices! I'm looking at SFT at the moment, looks a good outfit!

[presbycusis]

I reckon that Send Clowns's profile makes it perfectly clear what his connection with SFT is. If you're gong to use this forum to advertise your business Send Clowns then I suggest you use a different nick and do it anonymously, else I can see some Moderator wrath on the horizon!

[QUERY]

Yes, it does seem unlikely that this clown works for PPSC or anyone else in Bournemouth, other than SFT, so for refusing to answer or apologise, he should be thrown out- without 'chute.

[Scratch One Bandit]

Hi Si,

I'm at SFT at the moment, if you email me at the address below, I could give you my opinion. I'm just about to complete ATPL (I hope).

Don't be so hard on Send Clowns, he is dead busy, and I'd imagine that he simply hasn't had time to read this thread again.

[ 24 July 2001: Message edited by: Scratch One Bandit ]

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Why are Oxford`s prices so much higher.Is it cos they deliver better training?If so why does it take them 15 weeks to get you through the IR!There was a post a few weeks back of a chap who had completed an CPL/IR in 3 1/2 weeks at about half OATS price.I haven`t got £50000 to spend , only the price of an CPL/IR,but I`m sure there`s alot of us about which adds up to a tidy bit of business for someone.

[Sagey]

With all this debate etc constantly going on.

I would love one day to see a breakdown of each schools costs that they incur for students.

I have no problem with Oxford say charging 55 grand but incur costs of 53, and therefore understand the 55 charge. I would have a problem with Oxford over charging to subsidise sponsored cadets (I don't know if this happens, just in retrospect), or making what I would classify ott profits. Eg 30 grand costs incurred and 55 charged.

Not sure if I am making sense lol, but one way to clear this debate up once and for all is for schools to publish a break down in costs that they incur. We can then see profit margin etc, before finally making a choice.

Sagey

[QUERY]

In my experience, you might (if you are on the Committee or V.F.persistent and happy to be hated) obtain some figures from a genuine club but should then query:
- are students subsidising the other Members' use of aircraft, clubhouse, drinking, fuel etc.?
- is the CFI milking it mercilessly, with the exam fees, groundschool grasping or other rackets?
- are poor instructors getting nearly nowt from what people pay the Club for a lesson?

They'll deny it but, sadly, the answers are often Yes. However, many flying clubs are excellent. except for students! BTW, incensed instructors should note that people usually pay a much higher rate for labour than the worker is paid.
Genuine clubs may make 'no profit' from student members, but they are allowed to create supluses and cross-subsidise. Like most Co-ops, flying clubs often find it difficult to compete - with other flight training organisations- mainly because they are mismanaged, milked and have a much lower rate of return on assets.

As for commercial organisations- surely you're dreaming and so what anyway, Sagey? All students should query on anything, from anywhere you're considering, is:
-what exactly do I get/'need to pay for'?
-how much will it all cost? and
-may I have that confirmed in writing?

P.S. I'd be very worried if I knew that I was training at, or hiring from, a place that is NOT making plenty of profit- wouldn't they be tempted to fiddle or forget to do things?!

[Sagey]

P.S. I'd be very worried if I knew that I was training at, or hiring from, a place that is NOT making plenty of profit- wouldn't they be tempted to fiddle or forget to do things?!

Profit is a good thing I agree with that, and never said that flight schools should not make profits. Supernormal profits are not a good a thing, and have severe detrimental effect to the consumer/student. I disagree with the statement that they would fiddle something however, flight schools run on reputation. You just have to look at former posts, the minute someone is peeved off with their flight school a post appears on this forum saying what happened etc.

I am sure that everyone would be willing to pay extra if they knew that they would be getting better flight instructors, better equipment and this obviously raises that schools costs.

There are large differentials in costs amongst flight schools. If you buy for example a Porsche you want a Porsche, you don't want to have paid for a Ford Fiesta from somewhere calling themselves Porsche for Porsche prices.

Sagey

[er82]

Right. I'm currently at OATS, am a self-sponsored student, and paid 42K when the NVQ discount was still available last year.
I have found no fault with either the groundschool or flying instruction, the only problem being with the availability of aircraft at times, which I'm sure occurs at all flying schools at some time or another.

I would imagine the fact that BM, BA & Aer Lingus send their students here is proof of the quality of instruction. Oh, and don't forget the 12 students who were interviewd by British European and were all given a job, and the quote by one man from the airline "I only wish we'd started taking students from here before now".

Yes, I probably am biased towards OATS because I go here, but I doubt anyone who says they aren't biased to the school they attend.

In then end, it's best to visit all the schools and make up your own mind.

[Sagey]

Er I was never criticising OATS, my point is that OATS is one of the more expensive and before making my choice I would like to decide whether the extra money is worth it. I have heard good things about OATS, bad things about OATS. As you said everyone should look around and pick what they feel is best for themselves.

Glad you enjoying it.

Sagey