Where is BA "The World's Favourite" in the top 100 World Airlines 2015? [Archive]

etudiant

18th Jun 2015, 22:44

Being the world's favorite airline has become less important than simple survival, but without a long term strategy, that will be difficult.
I'm just astounded that the people in the airline industry remain oblivious to the experience of the shipping industry. There too we had national flag carriers, now largely gone, displaced by 'flags of convenience'. The industry has shaken down to maybe three or four largish cruise lines, similar numbers of big container lines and a bunch of bulk carrier lessors.
There is no reason the airlines will not rationalize similarly, so one would expect the survivors to be Etihad like carriers with EasyJet cost and pay structures. The TPP and its associated services trade agreement look to eliminate national carrier preferences, so the industry evolution should accelerate during the remainder of this decade. I'd expect financially strong partners from Asia to become increasingly dominant under this process.

TURIN

18th Jun 2015, 22:49

Assuming TPP goes ahead. Opposition on this side of the pond is growing rapidly.

esra

18th Jun 2015, 22:59

Flying Eagle, slogan changed September 2011, good slogan but way off the mark!

esra

18th Jun 2015, 23:07

DaveReidUk, yes #20 down from #17 last year, maybe wrong to be defending a decline to #20?
Middle Eastern and Far East carriers knock spots off these guys year on year, concerning as to where it could be going.

16024

18th Jun 2015, 23:38

Off topic alert!

We take "Flight crew" to mean the Pilots

...I know.

And I can't be the only one who opposes this re-branding. Our OPS manuals also reflect this bollux. The terms used to be interchangeable:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAircrew&ei=xFSDVajOG6bQ7AaX34DQBQ&usg=AFQjCNH13CIQ_K68rWZAH9fDBIp8mNrzFQ

If you mean pilots, why not say pilots.

4468

18th Jun 2015, 23:50

IAG still making £1billion per year. I don't think anyone need lose any sleep at the UK's consumer and business Suoerbrand of 2014 and 2015? Or best airline, as voted for by business traveller awards 2014.

(Where have you been since the first of your 4 posts, 10 years ago esra?)

MungoP

19th Jun 2015, 07:23

BA..
Tired old 744s.. I used to ask the company to book me BA when possible but those days are gone.. now I try to avoid them. I can't select my seat until within 24 hrs of the flight.. unless I choose to pay extra (Emirates, no such problem)..I have a large bunch of air-miles with BA that I'm told I'm unable to use on flights I select, can't upgrade with them when requested.. they're pretty much useless..The last few times I've flown BA the entertainment screens were problematic, not just mine but also many of those around me, just worn out and the movie selection was very limited. On my last 744 flight some of the interior trim was hanging down..
I've no idea what the short-haul fleet is like but the 747 operation is in urgent need of an overhaul. I have no issues with the cabin staff, always professional and efficient.
Only saving grace is that BA are still way better than any of the US airlines I sometimes get stuck with.

Mr A Tis

19th Jun 2015, 09:34

Agree with Mungo Tired old 744s & also very tired 763s.
Going east it's QR or EK for me, a very easy choice.
A friend recently flew on BAs new A380 & remarked on what a huge disappointment it was - she is a regular Emirates A380 pax. I'm off to Calgary this week-end- the choice was a BA 25year+ B763 or an 18 month old Air Canada 777 via YVR.
US wise, Delta crews usually make up for their poor equipment, but BA would beat any of the other US carriers (just).
For me, I'd love Emirates to take on some UK transatlantics- now that really would shake up the market.

FRying

19th Jun 2015, 10:06

Mr A Tis would like to shake up the market thanks to airlines who fire women when they get pregnant. Turning a blind eye makes life so easy. He likes to be pay as little as possible whatever the cost for others...

Don't worry Mr A Tis, nobody will be crying over your company's tumb when some chinese company will have damaged it so badly it won't recover. That will be a mere "market shake up" too.

Basil

19th Jun 2015, 10:20

In the RAF: aircrew = all crewmembers
In BA: flight crew = pilots & flight engineers (when they were around)
Cabin crew = stewards & stewardesses

FE Hoppy

19th Jun 2015, 11:27

EASA
Flight crew = Pilots and F/E
Cabin crew = cabin crew

Aircrew = Flight crew and cabin crew

glorifiedtaxidriver

19th Jun 2015, 11:54

From this suspiciously glowing skytrax review of a uk carrier

21st March O/B - 28th March I/B - BHX to SSH. Both flights were great paid £15 each for extra leg room both ways and what a difference for a 5 hour flight it makes. Both Aircraft were clean and the crew friendly yet professional. Flight deck informative on both sectors and departed on time and arrived early both ways. Only gripe was the check-in at Sharm it was slow and chaotic. But other than that two great flights ******* Airlines have my business again for the future they are way ahead than Thomas Cook and Thomson.

Flight deck?? (my bold)

clearly an inside job!

Mr A Tis

19th Jun 2015, 12:44

FRying - you assume too much. For me Emirates is often more expensive than using say LX or LH - but to me, worth it. I never mentioned price or fares just equipment & service.
It is up to our European & American carriers to improve what they offer. As has been stated IAG, make £1bn a year- so what's the excuse?

Wirbelsturm

19th Jun 2015, 12:54

It's quite easy to undercut the market when the same family owns the aircraft, the airport, the oil wells, the refineries. The same family who control the slots, the navigation rights, the employment conditions, the housing and the immigration visa issue.

The company that treats it's staff like slaves, insists on ludicrously outdated working practices and backs them up with surveillance that would make the Stasi from the cold war proud (obviously hiding the thermal imaging equipment in a gold Rolls Royce rather than a Trabant). I have colleagues and friends who work out there and are desperately trying to get out, it's going to be an interesting summer for the Gulf carriers!

A company that doesn't have to contend with anti aviation Governments, lack of runway space due to feckless, chinless politicians who couldn't make a decision if their lives depended upon it. Taxed to the hilt on a green 'premise' whilst those same said green taxes go to prop up an ever increasing Government spend.

It will be an interesting couple of years for Lufthansa and Air France/KLM as they struggle with the ever diminishing returns that the aviation sector is bring in with the European pounding that the industry is getting from the Green brigade whilst the Middle East and the Asia sectors continue to expand in the light of relaxed regulations.

Crews becoming tired and fatigued as EASA screws scientifically proven rostering in favour of a one glove fits all approach and the Airline execs can screw more working hours out of their crews. Schedules must be kept but those pesky pilots things are too expensive so we'll over utiise what we've got in an atmosphere of fear of job loss if they don't cover the work. Remember Colgan? Where the Co-Pilot earned less than a hotel dish washer and couldn't afford to live where she worked? Good job the tickets were cheap.

Yet despite all this passengers still want tickets across the pond for less than the return train fare to Newcastle from London, oh, and a flat bed, oh, and champagne, oh and a full meal service etc. etc. etc.

Something has to give to keep the prices low and the employees have just about been reamed out as far as they will go.

So, whilst BA has made some hard, and occasionally poor, choices in their service delivery they are still chugging along in the face of unfair, global competition and for the passenger it is, obviously, a free market. Fly with who you will, personally I wouldn't touch the Gulf carriers out of principle but then I'm not much longer for this industry. Thankfully.

Cazalet33

19th Jun 2015, 13:12

Comparing BA to the dinosaur airlines in the US is unfair to all parties.

Sure, the crappy and clapped-out pre-CrippleSeven and Dreadliner Boeings in BA's fleet are an embarassment, but BA has been on the downslide for decades/generations now. They can only go lower.

The slogan "worlds favourite airline" was well dodgy even when the ad execs thought up that thoroughly mendacious claim. That was nigh on thirty years ago. The world (except America) has moved on since then.

astir 8

19th Jun 2015, 13:31

Somebody once equated "The World's Favourite Airline" with the M25 being "The World's Favourite Motorway"

It has to be said that the new competition from the middle and far eastern airlines takes some beating.

Waterworld

19th Jun 2015, 15:11

Excellent post Wirbelstrum. Totally agree.

If I recall rightly, the term "Worlds Favourite Airline" was coined because, at the time, BA carried more International passengers than any other carrier, not necessarily because they were the best carrier.

The world has moved on since then, and so has BA.

Cazalet33

19th Jun 2015, 15:22

Even in Wallyworld they must surely recognise that BA is on the waterslide to obscurity - alongside the likes of Garuda, Continental, BanglaBiman, American, EgyptAir, Malaysian, et al.

Wirbelsturm

19th Jun 2015, 16:26

Even in Wallyworld they must surely recognise that BA is on the waterslide to obscurity - alongside the likes of Garuda, Continental, BanglaBiman, American, EgyptAir, Malaysian, et al.

That'll explain why BA returned a large first quarter profit as averse to Lufty and Air Chance/KLM.

Terrible slide. :ugh:

Pinkman

19th Jun 2015, 18:08

Now that the disgusting and unreliable Gatwick 737 fleet has nearly gone, BA arguably provides a reasonable and cost competitive European service with its A 3xx fleet. The equipment is (usually) clean, and in my experience when delays occur, they are more often due to airport congestion than tech failures.

This is in sharp contrast to the longhaul fleet which is dire. Again, in my experience the 777s are OK but often subject to tech delays but paradoxically the geriatric 744 fleet seems reasonably reliable but I feel like having a shower mid flight. They are, frankly, embarrasingly shabby. By contrast the remaining Lufthansa 744s are spotless. And before you flame me for having a (rare) opinion I fly as pax more than most pilots fly as their job - in the past 5 weeks I have been to St Johns (AC), Perth (BA/CX), Beijing (BA/Dragonair), San Francisco (Virgin), and yesterday, Lisbon (BA).

So I have a fair idea.

Mr Angry from Purley

19th Jun 2015, 18:22

Crews becoming tired and fatigued as EASA screws scientifically proven rostering in favour of a one glove fits all approach and the Airline execs can screw more working hours out of their crews.

Where is all this :mad: coming from then. Are we talking BA crews in specific or is this a general ill informed rant?
The subject is BA's position in the rankings. My personal view is yes might be on a clapped out 747 so the service might not be great but i'd rather be sitting with a BA crew in an event than a non EASA airline that comes out better service wise. You only have to look at other forums about Crews working hard, you very rarely see comments about over worked BA crews here....:\

Pinkman

19th Jun 2015, 18:31

you very rarely see comments about over worked BA crews here..

That's because they aren't. I recently flew to Singapore on Swiss via ZRH. I stayed one night and flew back. Same crew. Went to Rio on BA last year. Spent 3 days and came back. Same crew. I said "please tell me you've been back to London in the mean time..." They laughed. "we've been up sugarloaf we've been to Ipanema..etc. etc."

Andy_S

19th Jun 2015, 19:29

Doesn't this thread belong in SLF? It's hardly news.......

For what it's worth, you can look at it two ways.

From an economic perspective BA are a successful business in an industry where the playing field is far from level.

From a passengers perspective, they're nothing special and I don't even think they aspire to be. If I can avoid them long haul then I will.

Fairdealfrank

19th Jun 2015, 23:03

The slogan "World's Favourite Airline" goes back a long way, to 1982 IIRC, when the aviation industry was quite different.

At the time BA was a "public corporation" owned by the government. It was one of those much maligned institutions, a nationalised industry.

Draw your own conclusions.

As for the "clapped out" B747s, it is a pity that B747-8s were not considered as suitable replacements.

crewmeal

20th Jun 2015, 06:22

Most of the time BA Cabin Crew do an excellent job. Flight Crew do an excellent job ALL of the time as far as I'm concerned. Yes I'm biased towards BA because I used to fly for them. However if managers decided to sit in front of laptops cutting the product to the bare bone and along with ancient aircraft with poor interiors and facilities flying longhaul routes then the world will start to compare and criticise with other carriers. Is it any wonder they are not 'top of the pops' What is that old idiom "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear''? Crew can only serve what they are given to serve. If there is nothing there then it can't be their fault.

Hell I'm flying Egyptair on a 738 to Luxor in a few weeks. I wonder what treats I'm in for :eek:

mockingjay

20th Jun 2015, 06:49

I think they provide a fairly robust product for the London market. They're facing pressure from competitors and the benefits of flying BA aren't as clear cut as before. In years gone by I didn't mind paying that little by extra knowing I could select a seat in advance, put my bag in the hold and get a meal or snack.

Nowadays the free seat selection is just 24 hours before departure and the choice is limited (paying to select a seat is quite expensive), it costs more to put a bag in the hold and the meal/snack is now a packet of savoury snacks and a drink. The new A320 cabin looks good, but the reality is you're squeezed in like a LCC.

I also find the cabin crew very inconsistent. Some are lovely and will do anything for you but some of them seem to take pleasure from treating the pax like dirt.

I live in the regions and fly them to London. Connections onward to mainland Europe are not feasible due to their prices. They were exactly double the cost of my upcoming flight to Berlin with AFKLM. There's no way that they are worth paying that much extra for.

I've never flown them long haul but westbound the new American and Delta have really upped their game lately (United is still, well, United!) and to the east. the MEB3 have good products and prices. I do wonder where this leaves BA.

Andy_S

20th Jun 2015, 08:49

I also find the cabin crew very inconsistent. Some are lovely and will do anything for you but some of them seem to take pleasure from treating the pax like dirt.

Having flown with them long haul in World Traveller Plus recently, I endorse that 100%. My most enduring memory of the experience, though, was the dry croissant and granola bar I was served for 'breakfast'.......

Hotel Tango

20th Jun 2015, 10:26

Hell I'm flying Egyptair on a 738 to Luxor in a few weeks. I wonder what treats I'm in for

Let us know crewmeal. I remember a few years back feeling a tad apprehensive about what sort of service I'd get on THY Turkish DUS-IST-DUS flights in Y. I was pleasantly surprised including the hot meal provided. It was more like the traditional service some of us oldies remember from the end of last century.

EMB-145LR

20th Jun 2015, 15:48

I'm a tad biased, however, having flown for companies in the US for the past five years, I'd still say that the difference in service between BA and the North American carriers is night and day. Delta, on their day, can be acceptable. United are exceptionally inconsistent in terms of the hard product, but the staff let them down more often than not, and the catering is below par. However, American are the pits. Unless you get a brand new 77W the product is appalling. Across the Atlantic I have yet to experience on demand IFE, in fact on my last three flights there has been no IFE. The food on American has been disgusting for the last few years, so much so that my wife and I bring our own stuff, even when flying Business.

BA on the other hand have a good, solid product, if not earth shattering. The IFE is good, seats are comfortable, the crew are excellent 90% of the time, the other 10% they are indifferent at worst, never rude though. Additionally I have found the food to be a lot better than the North American carriers, even in economy.

On short haul BA constantly impress me. Last year I flew LBA to LHR and the crew managed three drinks services and a choice of snacks on a 30 minute flight with a full load. In this day and age a hot meal isn't necessary on a flight under three hours, and I'd rather choose something in the terminal myself.

The BA 744 fleet needs replacing, it's not in a great state and a deep clean would not go amiss, but compared to the ramshackle 767s I've flown on with US carriers, even the BA 744s are a haven.

However, Virgin have really upped their product recently, and the ME3 are roaring ahead. BA need to start thinking about a serious service refresh, but for now they are doing fine.

mockingjay

20th Jun 2015, 15:57

VC10man

20th Jun 2015, 16:19

All this BA knocking and they are still 17 places above the mighty Virgin Atlantic.

I flew on one of the last flights in a BA 747-400 to VCR and I thought it was good.

EMB-145LR

20th Jun 2015, 16:30

Maybe I was just lucky with my crew then Mockingjay. I was mid cabin in economy, and the whole cabin got served three times. In my experience that hasn't been the exception either, in the last year I must've flown 15-20 times on short haul with BA to LBA, MAN, EDI, WAW, AMS, BRU, DUS, FRA, HAM and CPH. On every flight I've been impressed with the in-flight service. Granted, on long haul I've only done ORD-LHR-ORD in the last year, but on the couple of occasions I've used that service, it's been great, although admittedly on a newer 77W.

mockingjay

20th Jun 2015, 16:42

I must have been unlucky. I have been given a second drink on request but the crew have never done several services. I've only used them on NCL, LBA and CDG asp my exposure is fairly limited.

Fairdealfrank

20th Jun 2015, 18:11

Having used the LHR/LBA flight I must say your experience is very much the exception. Down the back the trolley gets to you with just enough time to serve you. If anyone got three drinks it's because they're sat close to a galley. There's no way a crew would willingly haul a trolley through the length of a cabin doing three services when they don't need to.

Have also been on LHR-LBA and LHR-MAN many times (on BA and BD in both cases), there isn't the time for more than one service for the entire cabin. The sectors are just too short.

AdamFrisch

20th Jun 2015, 19:19

This was last time I flew BA on LAX-LHR in a rattling 747. My neighbor had condensation drip on him the entire flight and since it was full, the stewardesses just offered him a blanket he could wrap around his head like a turban to soak it up. Haven't been back since.

Even Virgin have become Essex chavvy. My only choice on that route these days are Air New Zealand. They are great and an example of how a national carrier should be. Reminds me of SAS in their heydays in the 80's. Clean, crisp and minimalist.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/ba-filth.jpg

mockingjay

20th Jun 2015, 19:42

I was paid a commission when I was crew. The more I sold the more I made so I had an incentive. Even with that in mind doing more services than was mandated just wouldn't happen but if BA crew are willing to do three services in a domestic then I take my hat off to them.

carlrsymington

20th Jun 2015, 20:14

I have flown more than 1 hundred return flights and been looked after by a host of different airlines but my favourite experiences were on an Aeroflot IL62 & an Alitalia MD80 something.
One was an underpowered, Oxfam furnished glider, where the staff had dressed, done their hair & make up in the dark and smoked all the way. One passenger, when told "You! Sit there!" put his hands up & said "Don't shoot"
The other was a hot rod held together with coffee, noise & hair gel. Of course the cabin crew were immaculate. Brilliant. Left by the back airstairs sucking in the fumes.
My last few flights were Emirates 777 & 380. Stylish, brand new, and very quiet & comfortable.I slept 90% of the time & heart rate did not increase 1 beat.

If I was travelling regularly it would be Emirates, Ethihad etc almost every time but once in a while just to add some colour I try something different.
I believe Air Koryou are launching Belfast, Northern Ireland to Pyongyang, North Korea... might give them a whirl:}
I see they have "Political Prisoner Class" seating, is the food any good?
I wonder where they rank in this survey?

GROUNDHOG

20th Jun 2015, 20:48

I have always been a huge supporter of BA (see SLF), love the old 747 and up to now they have been my airline of choice.
But...
The ridiculous booking system where you can 'buy' seats together but you can't actually see which seats are available until after you have committed to the flights is ludicrous.
BA have now lost me to Air Canada for my next round of YVR flights, not that it will bother them and don't get me started on the replies from customer services!!
Genuinely sorry and disappointed

EMB-145LR

20th Jun 2015, 22:29

Just to clarify, the three drinks services in one flight only happened once, on the LBA-LHR flight. The flight was full, they did a second round when clearing in the first round and a third when clearing in a second time. They passed through once more as we left the hold to pick up rubbish before the approach in LHR. I was very impressed, especially as I had operated a flight from ORD to MCI the week before on the old ERJ-145 (only 50% full too) and our flight attendant had decided not to do any service whatsoever 'due to the short duration' of our 1 hour 20 minute flight.

PAXboy

21st Jun 2015, 13:32

Thread drift
The fastest service I had was on the hop from Honolulu to Kauai which was about 23 mins wheels-to-wheels. It was run (almost) as a shuttle by Aloha (I think they've gone now) on a 732. They took orders for cold fruit drinks before departure and then whisked down the aisle to throw the cups at you and back to collect.

It was great fun but that was December 1990!

LadyL2013

21st Jun 2015, 14:34

I haven't flown with BA a lot, but the flights I have had I can't find anything to complain about. They didn't wow me but they didn't disappoint me either. The crew were certainly friendlier than the ones I have experienced on other airlines apart from Thai Airways. Miles above Thomson who apart from a couple of cabin crew, can barely raise a smile and seem annoyed to be there.

I know it's a simple thing, but I like that either the Captain or FO stands by the door and greets you in and out with BA. It's nice to see who is flying you and he was really polite and seemed really enthusiastic and happy when i got chatting to him about our flight and aviation in general.

I've only ever flown shorthaul with them, but the experience was quite pleasant.

Mr Mac

24th Jun 2015, 07:09

I have not flown with them for somtime but colleagues say they are nolonger what they were and the list of taty A/C THOUGH NO DOUBT WELL MAINTAINED remains a constant issue in conversation. Where they go from here I do not know as the brand is not what it was and is similar though not yet as bad as the US carriersd in that regard.

With regards the Leeds Bradford shuuttles I remember BMI Diamond Service, they did dinner with pre dinner drink and food with wine in the 80,s, I admit they circled somtimes to clear up !

Regards
Mr Mac