training ban

[Captn_Kirk]

I, too, would like to train my fellow pilots.
One day...
Not now.
I did before, though.


If you were skeptical about the possible effectiveness of the ban, just refer to DFO's last email. It seems it concerns them more than CC.


Furthermore, if you need a personal reason not to do it now: would you really want to train the pilots who will put your expats conditions in jeopardy, sooner than later?

[betpump5]

Yes they would. Its called egotistical selfishness. Some pilots have it and just like some viruses you can't rid of them.

It is that same virus that makes them jump up and down like a clown on a CNY float. A virus that makes them dance like a batty boy during a flashmob at the airport. A virus that causes them to join CX media campaigns like Life well :mad: and I can't fly. And distressing of all makes them work G-Days.

You will see them very soon on this thread. You will notice them when they come up with idiotic deluded sentences like "we take JFO, SFO, Captain promotions so how is that different to Training positions?".

And I didn't even need a Crystal Ball to predict what I wrote in the paragraph above.

[mngmt mole]

betpump. You are correct, but hopefully the rapidly escalating effects of CC will make even the most sycophantic of us think twice before volunteering. For those of you who are joining training now, the memory of the rest of us will be eternal. I used to train, gave it up 10 years ago and would never go back. I am sick of flying with 'children' (no offence, it's not your fault the company hired your out of your prams). This airline is sick, dysfunctional and heading for disaster. There will be blood on the hands of the managers who have been responsible for this debacle. AT, please, stop sending out these ever increasingly pathetic letters. Either fix the problems, or resign. In the meantime, STFU. All that matters is your actions. I'm tired of your hollow promises and treacly salutations. If you don't know by now what is wrong, and can't accept the fact that it will take $$$$$$$$ to fix the problems, then resign, NOW. Otherwise you will suffer the enmity of 3000 of us. You took the job, and we are completely at the end of our patience. Sort it out, NOW. Fix rostering, fix seniority, fix days off requests, fix staff travel. If you can't do all of that in 6 months, then resign NOW. No more newsletters. All I want to hear from you is what you have fixed. If you can't do that, resign, NOW.

[The FUB]

One only needs to look at the FTC names, some of these :mad: make up their own SOPs conventions and are very opinionated. Good luck to the Airbus trainees.

[Just Do It]

Have a look at who has taken up these training positions. Someone did say we were going to get the crap of the pilot pool applying. Why these individuals could not have waited I have no idea.

It is clear that the training ban is going to have the biggest impact on the company. So to those excellent individuals who are going to make outstanding trainers and have decided that this is not the time to apply....I take my hat off to you.

The other individuals who have turned your back on your colleagues, please don't ever post, discuss or even think of complaining about the company present or future industrial situation. Well at least now you will not have to keep coming up with excuses on why you are not wearing the Red Lanyard, as entertaining as it was!

[Captn_Kirk]

The whole point of being a trainer is to make the operations safer.
3-man LH defies that purpose. Time to make a stand!


Oh, and 8 hard landings last month. Maybe it's time they use the FDAP properly and check if it isn't a new trend because of 250h pilots landing a (330T) jet for the first time? Maybe the data won't support it.
But FDAP's initial purpose was just that: identifying worrying trends so training, SOPs and maybe recruitment can be amended. Not used to single out the odd mistake that wasn't ASRed.

[NoAndThen]

I've spoken to a few of the latest trainer/management inductees and virtually all of them used the ironic excuse, "If I don't take it, we'll be stuck with some jack*ass taking up the position."

I hate to tell you but you are the :mad: You have sold your colleagues out because of your ego and money. Virtually every trait that makes a good trainer your actions have already proven otherwise.

Come on, lets hear the exuses now! "No, it's an upgrade, it's not management" or "it's not only checking even though every single flight is graded..." WTF over

[airplaneridesrfun]

It's not really management.
Nobody on the 3rd floor, that does not have offices elsewhere is really a manager.

So, surely those beneath these 3rd floor 'managers' are just people the real managers have conned into working harder for peanuts.

[The Management]

Most Trainers in "The CPG" are narcissistic, as most of FOP Management.

Good luck with the Training ban.

[Hugo Peroni the IV]

Don't ever expect a JS from me! Yep, for years you :mad: will be on my list! I can't imagine how pathetic you look when you justify your move by saying someone else might take it. Well, I opted out coz that's the thing to do! You opted in coz you're a :mad:!

[tyro330]

No new trainers = reduced upgrades.

[DropKnee]

Sometimes that's what you have to do. A little pain for lots of gain.

[Pucka]

No new trainers = reduced upgrades.

So how do you categorise the trainers who have been in role for 20 years plus?

[Benny Hill]

Losers with no family or social life.

[White None]

That is just an idiotic statement - and no I'm not.

[Toe Knee Tiler]

Totally with you Curtain R. This is about delaying the company advancement plan not the aspiring pilots.

[Trafalgar]

Yes, some of you will have your upgrade delayed for a short while. The upshot is that hopefully the career you are planning on will actually be WORTH something when you do finally upgrade. If we don't make a stand, together, now, there will be nothing worth having in this job anyway. Everyone needs to sacrifice something at the moment. For those of you near upgrade, realise that this is for the long term benefit of the career you are so eagerly wanting to get on with.

[Pucka]

So with such vitriol against the new and the older trainers, should the AOA call for a complete moratorium on training?all trainers to resign?

[swh]

Pucka,

Don't think for a second that lot of trainers have left training, the circumstances that caused them to resign have not changed, they are looking at getting worse. I don't think the reasons pilots to resign from the company or training have changed, so I think it is reasonable to expect there will be further departures as personal circumstances dictate, and may accelerate if things change more.

[Yonosoy Marinero]

Let's see.

Constantly disrupted minimum G rosters.
No lifestyle options. No leave slots.
Minimum rest everywhere you fly, even at home.
Trainees who are now to be taught quite literally everything about flying. Let alone a big jet.
Having to constantly relate and answer to your superiors on the 3rd floor.
All for a minimal pay increase.

What's not to like?
:}

[VR-HFX]

Silber

One of the perks of the job.

But always remember you are giving the old and bold who used to be in C&T the chance to learn:ok:

[AQIS Boigu]

TC's as well - that might be a reason why some do it...

[Progress Wanchai]

I used to think it was selfish but XFR8 and Max Reheat have helped me see the light.

Apparently trainers can be just as pissed off on their summer family European vacation as line pilots flying their "roster" over the summer holidays.

Just need a little more empathy for trainers Dan.

[RHEINHARD]

And the training ban has been about as effective as tits on a bull. Have a look at the recent Airbus incumbents, allegedly most of whom " threw their hats in the ring " before the ban was mooted. Bollocks.

[Joejetjock]

We pilots are all such pussies. The girls have shown us how to deal with the company properly and they did so with great success. Got everything they wanted. The blueprint is there. What's it going to take for us to wake up and smell the coffee?
Instead of moving forward, we bicker like old women over that which amounts to nothing and find new ways to further divide what is already a woefully fragmented association.
Oh...but we have so much to lose. What crap. Pussies, all of us.
The Company knows that fear trumps courage and they know just how to ratchet up the fear in their pussy pilots.
What do we need to do? Do what the girls did: get over the fear, act out of courage and threaten to strike in August. And then wait.

[Joejetjock]

It's time to stop all this petty in house squabling (is that a word?) because it sends us all off in different directions.
All of us need to take up the same heading.
You don't have to like the guys in your association, but you got have them in the association.
We need to have the capacity to see the big picture and move together in the same direction. A blueprint has been provided for us. What will it take for us to all move in the same direction for our own benefit?
Answer is simple.............courage.

[Max Reheat]

PW

What did I do to piss you off?

I've been allocated two weeks this summer that I really don't want!

[asianeagle]

New NTC asking for Airbus Trainers..

either the ban is working..... or.....
they don't give a sh!t cos the likes of ...( insert name )... will jump at the chance!
:confused:

[RHEINHARD]

They are unable to crew the 350 or even bring it in to service shortly. Not my words, straight from the horses' mouth. The horse bring HC in this case. Short 25 sim instructors, approx 40 trainers. Standby for a lot of back drafting ( in reverse seniority of course) of trainers and f/o's from the tripler. Tee hee.

[Captain Dart]

If true, those 'heroes' who have put their hands up for training will be working REAL hard for a few pathetic bucks and a business card that says 'Training Captain'.

And they'll be bitching about their rosters in no time.

[RHEINHARD]

Plus ça change.

[broadband circuit]

AOA update today, where they explain the bleeding obvious:

The training position will still be there once the ban is lifted. Apply pressure now for long term gain

[iflylow]

Anyone who takes one of these trainer slots in the latest NTC is a SCAB, plain and simple, and will be treated as such.

This latest NTC is a clear shot by the company in seeing the resolve of the pilot body.

I cannot think of any action a professional pilot can take that is more pathetic or selfish than taking a training position now.

Anyone taking a position now I guarantee you will be held in contempt by your colleagues for the rest of your career.

[Captain Dart]

'...and no jump seat for you!'

[Farman Biplane]

Even if they are not members of the HKAOA?

[Oasis]

When was the ban put in place?

[AQIS Boigu]

"yep...but when I am in training I get more day flying..."

What's next? Training FOs?

[Oasis]

Curtain,

I wasn't clear.. When did the AOA suggest a ban, before the vote?
Don't keep all the emails.

Cheers

[OK4Wire]

"....from all bases..."

Quite a big change to the wording of all the previous NTCs, even going back 20 years.

Not a bad idea, overall, but certainly indicative of the mess they have got themselves in.

[CCA]

As it's part of CC the AOA should send out a polite reminder to log into IntraCX and select OPT OUT!

"Oh I forgot to so it's too late" :ugh:

[Ben revoD]

Where exactly is this opt in/out thing?