Skyforce Aviation

[Skystar320]

Have not heard much about them for the past couple of months. How are they going?

Its been noted that the Former Vincent BAE 146-200 ZK-NCO has become VH-SUF of Skyforce...

Do anyone know if the other BAe 146-200QC is coming into Australia?

[vhxxxx]

Keep losing chief pilots I think.Still trying to get a Bae146 on the AOC.

[vhxxxx]

Skyforce aviation no longer exits!! Its now Skyforce Australia. Apart from a few engineers, the Bankstown offices are deserted. Looks like the greatest source of Bae146 spare parts in the world.

[BNEA320]

think you mean


former Vincent BAE 146-200 ZK-ECO

[Skystar320]

Yes simple typo there BNE320 thankyou for correcting me!

[BNEA320]

as ZK-ECO wasn't a QC must be planning passenger services only with that aircraft.

[TWOTBAGS]

How are they going?

The answer you see is not the answer you want, as of yesterday it starts with a L and ends in iquidation.......

https://insolvencynotices.asic.gov.au/browsesearch-notices/notice-details/Skyforce-Australia-Pty-Limited-602415707/ccc152c3-a4a8-48d0-99bc-50d07c24b23d

[Skystar320]

Oh that is a real shame!

Wonder what will happen to their aircraft... Find it funny that the former Vincent had only just been added to the AOC.

Shame... Is the initials SF behind it or did he move onto bigger things?

[Duck Pilot]

I thought they were also tied up with Pelican, is this not the case now??

[BNEA320]

I thought they were also tied up with Pelican, is this not the case now??
Sounds like anything of value has been transferred to Pelican maybe ?

[Skystar320]

BNE320 - Have you got proof of that? Skyforce never operated BAe 32's...

[Horatio Leafblower]

Different corporate entities maybe but Steve Ferris (in one way or another) owned AeroPelican, owned the J32s, and owns FlyPelican. He also owns IAP, Slyforce and the BAE146s.

[Skystar320]

Skyforce BAE 146-200QC's have hit the market... $4.1mill is not a bad price, just a tad lower than a 737-300QC that's on the market.

[BNEA320]

$4.1 sounds high.


There's work for them as freighters Mon-Thu & assuming they are not subject to curfew @ SYD, there's huge demand Fri-Sun from sporting supporters groups not wanting to have to overnight @ SYD, BNE, MEL.


Catch is who's AOC could they go on ?


Much better to put on a NZL AOC for domestic Australian operations, but is anyone flying 146's in NZL anymore ? (think Vincent may have been last)

[Mach E Avelli]

"Catch is who's AOC could they go on ?"


Whoever wants to blow a year's work and quarter of a million to get them on. Of course CASA would assist this expenditure of time and money in any way possible. Then another quarter million for ADS-B and whatever else needed to be done, training crews etc. That's assuming that the operator already had a high capacity AOC. Double those numbers for a start up.
For what - four or five hours a week carrying liquored-up supporters around with the team? Do you armchair airline tycoons know what it costs to run a Bae-146 on a low utilisation maintenance schedule? Per seat, about double a B737-400.
Same for cargo: per kilo about double the Boeing, assuming similar distances flown.
It is a great niche aircraft, but flying between large airports is simply not its niche. Give it gravel or 1500 metre strips and there is nothing else in that size range other than its mate the Avro. Cobham have that market stitched up already and they won't concede business easily.
If sports groups were worth doing, the brokers would be right on to it. Vincent would have done it. Alliance could be doing it. Jetgo would get the small stuff. While there is a lot of talk about teams and special interest tours, it rarely amounts to much because there is usually an acceptable way to move people more cheaply on the main carriers.
Some AFL clubs are making enough to buy their own aircraft and run them privately. Private 'club' flight operations do happen in the USA, so someone with very deep pockets could probably make it happen here if they thought that the advantages justified it.

[BNEA320]

quote


"about double a B737-400.
Same for cargo: per kilo about double the Boeing, assuming similar distances flown.
It is a great niche aircraft, but flying between large airports is simply not its niche. Give it gravel or 1500 metre strips and there is nothing else in that size range other than its mate the Avro. Cobham have that market stitched up already and they won't concede business easily.
If sports groups were worth doing, the brokers would be right on to it. Vincent would have done it. Alliance could be doing it. Jetgo would get the small stuff. While there is a lot of talk about teams and special interest tours, it rarely amounts to much because there is usually an acceptable way to move people more cheaply on the main carriers.
Some AFL clubs are making enough to buy their own aircraft and run them privately. Private 'club' flight operations do happen in the USA, so someone with very deep pockets could probably make it happen here if they thought that the advantages justified it. "


a 737F can't go into SYD during curfew.


Alliance only have F50's that could get in & out of SYD during curfew. Don't think Jetgo could, but not sure ?


Vincent had no backup except Saab 340's.


Not talking about teams but well healed supporters. Many wives/girlfriends don't want their spouses ending up in Kings Cross - not good for marriages. They would much rather they returned home after the game, which means during SYD curfew.

[wishiwasupthere]

Not talking about teams but well healed supporters. Many wives/girlfriends don't want their spouses ending up in Kings Cross - not good for marriages. They would much rather they returned home after the game, which means during SYD curfew.

I'll give you one thing BNEA320, you've got 450 posts of largely drivel, but jeez your entertaining. Always worthy of a good chuckle.

[BNEA320]

plenty of loaded supporters who don't want to have to spend a night in Sydney or BNE or MEL cos they can't fly home same night, cos of silly curfew.

[Mach E Avelli]

I must move in the wrong circles, but the typical supporters I see actually WANT to end up at a strip joint after the game. The more 'effluent' they are the more that seems to be the case.
If wives and girlfriends are so worried, maybe they could fake it (an interest in footy, that is....) and go to the game as well.
I did a few charters with ice hockey teams and assorted hangers-on in Canada. Also supporters. Getting home afterwards was the least of their priorities!
Thread drift....sorry.

[Skystar320]

Well the question is what else is there for an Jet operation?

Last time I heard they were looking at doing Freight Flights out to somewhere in the Pacific and a large freight operator chucked a wobbly!

Beside these sporting flights [would be better basing it with Fremantle / West Coast Eages] just what exactly is out there these days work wise?

Jetgo are going into RPT...
Alliance are moving away from FIFO and moving into other markets.

What else / where could they go?

Oh and BNE320, mate I'm with the others there, you do dribble some sh*t!, but one does get a chuckle so keep up the good work

[BNEA320]

back in 2005, Ozjet before they went down the business class only route, were looking at using 146's in & out of Bankstown to Melbourne & Adelaide.


Have the proposed schedule in front of me right now.


How many pax without any luggage can a 146-200 carry out of BWU to Melbourne ? Presume a 146-100 would be better.


Catch is security costs, which is where a Jetgo with an aircraft under 20 tonnes might work well. How much to get a Ejet "recertified" to be under 20 tonnes ? Was told it would cost around 10,000 Euros to get a Fokker recertified.


Plenty of pax ex MEL land at SYD & get a hire car & head straight out west to Parramatta way. Conversely, plenty of pax ex SYD don't live anywhere near SYD, but west of SYD.

[BPA]

BNEA320,

You are dreaming if you think you can recertfy the Ejet (190) or the F100 to under 20 tonnes, considering the operating weight of the E190 is just under 28 tonnes and the F100 is around 24 tonnes.

[c100driver]

Actually it is really easy to have an aircraft certified to a lower weight. It is also possible to operate dual weights so you can use a higher weight for international flights and a lower one for domestic flights.

[donpizmeov]

Very good point C100. However certifying to a weight less than the empty weight of your aeroplane is considered by some to be a waste of money.

[BPA]

CS100,

Yes it easy to do, I've done it in the past for turboprops. But to get the E190 or the F100 below 20T you would be left with 1-2 rows of seats (4-8 passengers and could only carry enough fuel for a circuit (if that). Even the operating weight of the E170 is around 22T, so it would also be a struggle to get it below 20T.

[BNEA320]

quote



"You are dreaming if you think you can recertfy the Ejet (190) or the F100 to under 20 tonnes, considering the operating weight of the E190 is just under 28 tonnes and the F100 is around 24 tonnes."


Nope !!!


Not talking E190 but rather ERJ135LR (Jetgo's is 1kg too heavy @ 20T exactly)


Not F100 but F50-most are 20,870KG MTOW.

[Snakecharma]

Well, sorry to be picky, but a ERJ134/145 is NOT an ejet.

Ejet is a marketing name for the 170/190 family....

ERJ is the moniker for the little jets..

[BNEA320]

sorry, embraer jet

[BPA]

They are all 'Embraer jets'

Ejet = 170/175/190/195 (family)
ERJ = 135/140/145 (family)

Still doesn't cover the Fokker statement you said. There us no way the F100 or F70 could ever be certified under 20T.

[BNEA320]

bpa


read again F50 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BPA]

Perhaps you should stop editing your posts!!!

[Mach E Avelli]

I kinda get how this thread could have gone from Skyforce's misfortune to what some wannabe Borghettis and O'Learys think could be done with their 146 aircraft, but now it has gone beyond inane to moronic.
Mods, how about the big padlock before the tools completely escape the shed?

[VH-FTS]

How about BNEA320 heads over to the Flight Centre forum instead? He continues to show that bashing out routes on his computer for customer tickets doesn't equate real world aviation knowledge.

[Tidbinbilla]

Don't worry folks. We're now back to scheduled programming.

Skyforce Aviation. Wasn't that the topic? :O

[vhxxxx]

Interesting about Skyforce. Does that mean the Convair CV580 out of Cairns is grounded as well? Nice plane. pity.