New style flying suits

[caspertheghost]

Is it just me or do those new style flying suits look dreadful?
They don't even match the rollnecks or the cold weather jackets! I thought everyone understood that flying is all about looking good!

[BEagle]

So go and buy an Aircrew Leather Jacket! That dreadful truncated raincoat thing which HMFC call a cold weather jacket is only any good for doing the 'miniature pilot' sketch at APC revues!

Or are you a card-carrying fashion policeman?

[DB6]

Jawohl mein herr, das ist der Kriegsmarine, ja?
Donner und Blitzen!:D
(well they look German anyway)

[Correcting-nicely]

Aw, does ickle pilot not like the colour? Boo-hoo. At least you don't have to wear crappy blues like the rest of us! I reckon the change is 'cos they don't show beer spillage post h-hour. "That's right love, I had a shed load of admin to clear from my desk before I finished tonight. Hic" No 1 in a series of thing aircrew seldom say! ;)

[Tiger_mate]

Watch you dont get grease on your trousers from all those chips now!

Or is Admin Guru back in a new guise?

T_M

How much flying pay do we get again?:confused:

[STANDTO]

God, what I'd give to look a bag of sh*te in a new style flying suit

[Hertz Van Rental]

"That's right love, I had a shed load of admin to clear from my desk before I finished tonight. Hic" No 1 in a series of thing aircrew seldom say!

Actually that is a damn sight more common these days than "There I was upsidedown...etc":(

[Vortexadminman]

There fantastish!!! No wheres my gimp mask gone!!!:D

[MAD Boom]

Personally, I think they look alright.
Let's be honest, doesn't matter what the colour is, 9 times out of 10 you'll get laid!!
And that's what it is about, not looking good!
God bless the growbag

Now preparing myself for a few retalliations.:D

[canberra]

how can the mod justify the cost of flying suits? as combat 95 is cleared for aircrew to wear in the cockpit(it must be or the shf would be wearing flying suits wouldnt they?) why doesnt the mob see sense and make aircrew get like the rest of the raf and wear combat 95? oh forgot you wouldnt be able to plaster it with badges unlike groundcrew coveralls, anyone ever see groundcrew with their denims plastered with badges?

[bad livin']

Canberra, visit a well known fighter station in east central Scotland and I guarantee you'll see plenty of groundcrew with as many patches on their overalls as the aircrew do on their growbags. This also goes for a good number of other stations.

However although I'm not wearing a growbag anymore, it IS a ladykiller and, quite frankly, CS95 worn in a SHAR or other front line type still looks the dog's danglies!

[jayteeto]

Canberra, when I was groundcrew I wore more badges than I do now. My latest badge is particularly big!! Wait until the new camo flying suits come out, where's my blues luv............

[wub]

Wearing a growbag can actually alter human behaviour, I've seen it! I was in the mess at Akrotiri when a squadron on APC were enjoying happy hour in their growbags. One of their number was in civvies and was looking distinctly out of it, not bantering or messing about with his mates. When drinking games started he disappeared only to return after 10 minutes in his growbag. Within a couple of minutes he was at the top of the human pyramid roaring his head off and chucking brandy sours about.

:D

[difar69]

Canberra,
"make aircrew get like the rest of the RAF and wear combat 95".
Couldn't get in the club could we? As you probably have not served on an operational Sqn as a flyer, I wouldn't expect you to understand the aircrew mentality regarding badges, sqn crests etc. You may view them as unnecessary but, beleive it or not they do contribute in generating that sense of belonging and pride that makes many Sqns so cohesive.


I thought this was a forum for military aircrew?

[BEagle]

I thought that Clockwork Soldier 95 was emphatically not cleared for use as flying clothing? Ever since someone wearing it got a bit of the pongo belt loops or whatever snagged on a part of the burning ac he was trying to get out of.

Personally I would have no problem whatever in accepting a 'new style' flying suit in DPM with badges restricted to a tone down flying badge or brevet with name, normal rank insignia, a tone down unit badge (often called, wrongly, a 'crest') on the right shoulder and a tone down national flag on the left shoulder.

Some of the Christmas trees one sees are, frankly, rather de trop and less than professional!

[canberra]

bad livin i did 3(three) tours at a fighter base in east central scotland, lets face it u mean leuchars. i personally never saw any groundcrew wearing badges on denims, mainly because they arent supposed to wear them round station ,unlike aircrew! shades of double standards.

[canberra]

no diffar 69 i havent served on a sqn as aircrew, but i have flown 7(seven) times in one day on bomb spotting duties in scouts. can someone please answer the question why are aircrew allowed to walk round stations often without headress and with flying jackets undone? after all the raf is a military service why dont u as officers set an example, after all you were an officer before you became a pilot!

[MAD Boom]

Hey! Not all who don the growbag are officers!! Go and visit Kinloss and you will see I always do up my buttons.
Sounds like another chimp having a pop at aircrew on an aircrew forum.
Growbags rule, no matter what they look like.
Now, must go and order some more badges.

:D

[Green Bottle]

SHF do wear flying suits and that is the normal flying clothing. CS95 has been approved for use on operations on occasion locally by local commanders but it is not approved for use.

It has not been designed as flying clothing and as Beags says, it is not cleared for use as flying clothing.

[Barn Doors]

Agreed! I have only served on 6 Squadrons to date, but I believe that having a strong sense of identity, pride and belonging is an important part of service life.... for all! I don't think the new flying suit is too bad, and i certainly wouldn't want to wear CS95 on flying duties (too hot!).

Sad isn't it, how whenever there's a forum like this, some people start the whole slag-match on aircrew, badges, them and us??!...

[caspertheghost]

whoops, can of worms been opened here! I just want my old flying suit back.................

[teeteringhead]

Canberra old bean:

I select Pedantic Git Mode (PGM) ON. Flying suits/ grobags, call'em what you will are these days,(I note from your profile you are no longer serving) officially No 14 Home Dress, and so can be worn by ANY RANK suitably entitled. Denims/overalls AIN'T uniform.

The defence rests.

PGM selected OFF.

Mind you, overalls must have been useful for you, prophylactic against the grease from those shoulder-borne chips ........;)

[canberra]

if flying suits arent uniform why are they worn with rank badges on them? dont see many people wearing squadron badges with no 2 dress do you? if flying suits are worn by the helicopter force how come all the pics from afghanistan show them wearing cs95 in the air, and with sleeves rolled up? and in my time in the former yugoslavia all the helicopter crews of all 3 services were wearing dpm.

[u_build_em_I_roll_em]

The reason the guys in afghanistan wear c95's is that its an operational theatre. It is supposed to be an AIRCREW forum so why do the blunties insist in asking stupid questions that all OPERATIONAL AIRCREW know the answer to?:mad:

Image is everything ability is nothing.:D

[difar69]

U build em, MAD Boom I concur.
Canberra, why bother posting if all you intend to do is use this as a forum to slag off officers and aircrew? All other ranks/trades have examples of people who have poor sartorial standards around station, just as aircrew do. However not ALL aircrew fit into the improperly dressed, badge covered, moronic category that you seem to place us in.

Go and find the "bitter and twisted" forum, as I'm sure they'll take you with open arms.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Grimweasel]

Looks like Canberra has started where Admin Guru left off!!
Why not start up your own forum.....and leave us alone!!:D

[Farfrompuken]

Chaps, for once I must agree with the Bald one on this.

Flying suits in my role (long range tanking) are pretty darned uncomfortable. They are hot, when you need to stay cool, and their fire retardent capabilities are kaput once you wash and tumble-dry them.
We don't even get them in the correct colour, if you know what I mean.
They also look crap when passing through an international airport, and are an embarrassment to be seen in - not from a fashion point of view, but they look shabby.

I would like to see us (fat-pie-eaters, that is) in an operationally effective, comfortable, but presentable outfit. If they can't clear a C95 equivalent outfit, then we should take a leaf out the Yanks' book, or just buy their kit.

And why does it take >6 months to get some new boots??? Even when you're on ops?

[BEagle]

Quite right. I agree that our flying suits look pretty shabby - but at least in 2 Gp they're required to conform to a standard 'badge pattern'. No silly patches as favoured by some.......

Boots (Lightweight) Size 8 Medium have now been on order for yours truly for over 7 months! The reason for the shortage quoted by the stackers is that "The Army didn't order any resupplies".

Presumably Woopert of the Umpty-Umpth Queen's Own Chinless Pwancers is well supplied with horse shoes and saddles - but as for items of flying clothing? Oh no, Sir.........

[StopStart]

On the last "Op" I was on, crews were flying in desert DPM kit. This is infinitely superior to standard flying suits when in a hot environment.

Given the magnificent aircon available to Albert whilst on the ground (none) crews in normal flying kit are invariably soaked with sweat before they've begun the Starting checks. Flight deck temperature easily gets well above 40degC the effects of which are compounded by the hot flying suits. Crew members working outside (GE, ALM, movers etc) are often even worse off. This usually results in flight deck members stripped down to their t-shirt and the guys outside working in shorts. Doesn't look smart but I'd rather get the job done comfortably than die of heat stroke looking "smart" :rolleyes:

Desert DPM kit is so much more comfortable in hot weather than flying suits. I only spent a month operating in it but then found going back to flying suits a real pain. I just wish we could wear it to and from Akronelli too.

[Tiger_mate]

I used "Coverall Aircrew Mk15T" in a hot country recently and found it quite acceptable, and when it rained (and did it rain!) they dry out very quickly. Fortunately I still have the old brown lightweight boots, but desert wellies would have been prefered.

The Mk 15 both Tropical and European give a bit more room where it matters most, and are a long way off from the new gopping colour scheme.

During Purple Star (where SH were ordered to wear S95) I got a bollicking for being on the flight line in a Mk14 Flying Suit, when such garb had to remain in the confines of an aeroplane, can you believe that one. Especially as I was collecting water for the crew whilst the cab was still running.

I believe that Life Insurance companies got p155y with the widows of a fatal Lynx crash at Soest in the 80s because clothing issued for Health and Safety was not being worn (DPM was).

It is about time 100% cotton Tee shirts were issued as flying kit instead of virtually everybody flying incorrectly dressed in summer.
Purple should go nice with the new designer suits ;)

T_M

[canberra]

some people may have misunderstood me. i personally have no problem with raf aircrew wearing flying suits around stations, what i have a problem with is the fact that on most units the swo goes mental with groundcrew if they wear their coveralls around station, shades of double standards? i also got very ******* off at seeing an sdo salute the flag in flying suit, somehow i cant see the army allowing the sdo to do his duty in a flying suit or coveralls. and i do have a problem with aircrew plastering their flying suits in badges!

[teeteringhead]

Canberra

As the PM says - "I refer you to the answer I gave a few minutes ago"

In the RAF (not Army), flying suits are uniform (No 14 HD), hence RAF SDOs saluting the flag in flying suits and Army not. (And anyway, what's wrong with saluting the flag in the UNIFORM you fly and fight in)

Coveralls groundcrew ARE NOT uniform, hence mental SWOs.

A change in dress regulations is way above MY pay grade.

Proliferation of childish badges are a matter for local management, as are tatty uniforms OF ANY SORT. And as BEags has indicated, this is not an insolublr problem.

It really ain't rocket science ......

btw, are you named for the bomber or the rather soulless Oz capital??

;) ;) ;)

[Mr C Hinecap]

OK, OK - time to calm down everyone.

Point number one: Flying Suits are PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT. That is why those loverly squippers spend sooo much time servicing and repairing them. sub-point. Wear them in & around the working area as PPE should be. Not, like some people, just to wear 'cos it is easier than fastening all those complicated buttons on working blues.

Point number two: BEagle. Duffgen in evidence. Due to the transfer to the new Mk 1 Flying Boot, Suit etc, all contracts for supply have, as is required, been completely cocked up and gone to rats. Rolling and goats seem to fit here. The Contracts peeps have, as usual, ensured 'seamless' and 'transition' will never feature in Crew Room banter. From all who ever manned the trenches in Clothing Stores, a genuine 'Sorry' - you should have the right kit to do the job and we'd love to provide it.

Anyway - have you noticed how the new suit makes bums look bigger? Or just bigger bums....................hmmmmmmmmmm.

[6nandneutral]

I've been away for a wee while, so I haven't seen these new suits yet. Has anybody got a piccy of them to post on this site? Personally I think we could do with a two piece.

[MAD Boom]

Not much has changed with them, just of lighter material, and darker green in colour.
(But hey, plaster them in badges, and you won't notice the difference.)
But quite correct, they are protective equipment, and saluting the ensign on SDO is perhaps not correct, but hey, officers, what more can you expect?

Quite agree that they are awful to wear in temperatures seen in the middle east, speaking from experience I would rather wear CS95 like the rotary boys. Loading up a Rod in 40deg is not a lot of fun, and flying in soaking wet kit is uncomfortable.

But hey, when required in a bar, airshows, or maybe around a certain Channel Island in September, doesn't matter what colour they are, they do the job!!!! Jealousy is awful, isn't it?

MADs

[PlasticCabDriver]

Yes, flying suits and coverall are Protective Equipment.
The big difference, in this context, between aircrew in flying suits and groundcrew in coveralls is what is worn underneath. If the groundcrew want to walk around the station, all they have to do is take off the coverall, as most (and I appreciate this could be a bit of a generalisation) wear the dark blue shirt/ blue trousers underneath. For the aircrew to do the same, they would have to strip naked and then put on their blues, every time they leave the building. I often fly 3 times a day, and having to change clothes 5 or 6 times a day (in the fantastic changing facilities provided of course) just to go to SHQ or to the Mess for lunch would waste vast amounts of my already valuable time, as well as being a right royal pain in the arse.

Have to agree though about saluting the ensign as SDO, that should be done in blue.

[Ramp Monkey]

Hey Tiger mate , I hate to correct you but the new tropical suits are the ****y green colour. I just had one given to me and it didn't even fit. Maybe thats something to do with my ever expanding girth.

Anyway who cares what colour they are they still get covered in **** and snot at the end of the day .

What do you all mean ... "Cover them in badges"... badges! for christs sake, you'll all be wanting to wear your names on them and rank slides.. come on guys get operational will you.....


PS
I dont give a **** wether Ground crew wear badges or not as long as they look after my cab who cares!

:rolleyes:

[Danny Boy]

Baffled as to why flying suits should be an issue to anyone other than aircrew, I personally would love to saunter to lunch in the Officers' Mess in my No 1s (they do look very smart esp. with wings and medals).

The truth of the matter is I don't get time for lunch break, and what time I do get to cram some 'high energy' (another thread methinks) rations down my neck does not allow me time to get changed into something others find appropriate.

The issue of badges seems strange also, in my experience FJ Sqns have a standard set of badges which everyone wears, usually in the form of a aircraft type (worn after P1 qual) a Sqn badge (post CR) and a name badge, with wings. On ops some guys wear a Union Flag patch, but then again war-suits are sanitized anyway.

Danny Boy

[caspertheghost]

Fair enough for the chopper boys to wear CS95 as they spend much of their time either in the field or in support of the army. However, CS95 just isn`t as practical in the FJ world, and worse of all you have to iron it!
Seriously though, when you wear CS95 you`re going to have to wear the CABs with it, and that means picking up loads of FOD and $hite on the deep treads. The whole point of the flying coveralls and survival equipment is that it's all designed for use in the cockpit, not for the army to wear while rolling about in the mud like CS95.

[bigley]

ramp monkey,

Don't know how big you are but if the new suit fits Tiger Mate's girth then there is a lot of room!!!!

TM missing you already!!:D

[Mr C Hinecap]

casper - all your groundcrew wear non-flying boots, ergo deep tread in da area - also a certain sqn of the fighter type fly in ProBoots.
Just be careful out there!