Easyjet DEP recruitment [Archive]

superconstellation

29th Jun 2015, 19:52

Lis is a great city and you can really enjoy it. Fantastic food, weather and people. The problem is that the ezy contract is quite poor, taxes are very high so your take home is really low(as a captain you make a lot less that an f/o in italy, france or germany). There is a constant flow of pilots leaving and joining because of this, morale is quite low too.

If you join you will be freeze in Lis for five years so forget to get a transfer, even after those five years the transfer isn't guaranteed because "there aren't replacements for your position available".

This is the new way of employing people in easyjet, so the race to the bottom continues, this isn't the great company to work for as it used to be and, looking at this management that is just worried about their bonuses, it will not improve.

wind check

29th Jun 2015, 20:49

Superconstellation is right, the food is gorgeous in Portugal, people are really nice and respectfull, LIS is a nice city, and...easyjet has become a rubbish airline, thanks to CTC Aviation, the cancer of aviation.

standardbrief

29th Jun 2015, 23:01

Thanks all.

It's hard to find an airline these days where (office) management care about anything other than their own pockets! (I would say none)

Pilots vs management like dogs vs cats (I believe we're the cats) 🐱

Take it easy

737 Jockey

2nd Jul 2015, 14:26

Gutted... Have been hoping easy would open DEC at LGW for years, and now...

Self funded TR, £86,000 salary and 90% for first six months.... :ugh:

Thanks! ....but no thanks :sad:

Jwscud

2nd Jul 2015, 14:48

Full page Orange advert in Flight too - rated and non-rated Captains and FOs.

Sounds the Ryanisation is in full force with differing contracts!

monkeyferret777

2nd Jul 2015, 20:43

Why have they put the salary in Euros when it's a UK base? And how/why is this figure lower than the ppjn salary- I thought it had been fixed with Balpa?

Narrow Runway

3rd Jul 2015, 08:37

737 Jockey,

Where is the £86,000 salary quoted? I couldn't see that in the FI advert and on the easyJet careers site, it talks of OTE £114,000.

I'm a bit confused. Is this a new, lower pay scale for DEC?

Admittedly, I am type rated and a current captain. So, not sure if that changes things?

Gutted... Have been hoping easy would open DEC at LGW for years, and now...

Self funded TR, £86,000 salary and 90% for first six months.... :ugh:

Thanks! ....but no thanks :sad:

monkeyferret777

3rd Jul 2015, 14:03

The easyjet careers website says it's 114 euros. Is this a mistake then? Should it be £??

gourm

3rd Jul 2015, 14:39

Has anyone been called for an interview after passing the online aptitude test?
I believe interview planned for July??
NTR FO applying for Lisbon
5500 TT

Narrow Runway

3rd Jul 2015, 14:40

Hi MonkeyFerret,

"Captain A320 Type Rated - Gatwick 2015/16 (04091)
Description

Permanent Contract
£114,022 OTE"

That is a GBP £ sign that is on the website. I am not too Apple Mac savvy, but that is a direct cut/paste from their website.

I am fairly certain it should be the same type of UK contract, as it is for existing pilots.

Deep and fast

3rd Jul 2015, 20:20

So what happened to all the CTC newbies from the past that were waiting their upgrades?

Thad Jarvis

3rd Jul 2015, 21:53

sounds like combined basic £ within expected sector pay to me.

737 Jockey

3rd Jul 2015, 22:01

Looks like €114,022 to me which equates to about £86,000 at current rates :mad::ugh: Hope I'm wrong!

wisecaptain

4th Jul 2015, 10:00

Rumour I heard form a Capt at LGW is they are approx 60 skippers short for the summer.:sad:

falconsRfab

5th Jul 2015, 08:02

...I recently saw the NTR captain job in Barcelona advertised by Easyjet. I got quite excited as I ticked off all the requirements which I easily exceeded until I got to the low vis / Cat III requirement...:uhoh:

My question is does anyone know if Easyjet would consider an application from someone who whilst meeting all the other requirements, does not meet this fairly unusual and specific Cat III requirement.

737 Jockey

5th Jul 2015, 11:51

I think the Cat 3b requirement was for rated Pilots.

737 Jockey

5th Jul 2015, 12:09

13. I acknowledge that I will be required to fund my A320 Type Rating, if successful for a position.

Agree
Disagree

Why does a company posting nearly half a billion pounds profit, require experienced Pilots to pay to fly!? Are they just fishing to see how many bites they get?

If one was to tick the disagree box, presumably the application goes no further? Tempted to try that.

:ugh:

Narrow Runway

5th Jul 2015, 14:40

That is exactly what would happen.

Alycidon

5th Jul 2015, 18:22

It's simple economics, while the CEO earns a fortune, the pilots pay a fortune.

Deep and fast

5th Jul 2015, 19:01

It's simple economics, while the CEO earns a fortune, the pilots pay a fortune.

Corporate management greed. Look at the chief exec bonus figures.

GA Button

6th Jul 2015, 06:25

If enough of you had the balls to tick no to funding the type rating then they'd be forced into a rethink. They're trying their luck to see if there are enough applicants who would do it. If they weren't desperate they wouldn't even ask - you would be paying for your type rating. Sadly, to quote Narrow Runway from a few years back, "you could put all the pilots in the world in a phone box and they still wouldn't stand together". That's the real cancer that's destroying our T's and C's.

737 Jockey

6th Jul 2015, 21:31

Does anyone know the actual cost of the type rating? Not that I would pay it, but it's weird to ask one to agree to self fund without stating how much!?

Cliff Secord

6th Jul 2015, 22:15

GA button. Perfectly described. There is and never will be a "we" together in flying. A more mercenary, desperate industry fuelled by an almost out of balance perversion to do a job you think will get better FOR YOURSELF in the long run you could not find. It's the short, high risk gambling attitude of the young and well credited that has caused this. Odd behaviour for a job that has a hard on for CRM and descision making. If that doesn't make your realise what a load of cock and balls the job really is behind all the pompous guff, nothing will.

Too many clever young people who think they're bright enough to peel oranges in both their pockets and carve their way out of the gloom just on their own. Compare the rail, where as un PC as it sounds, it's a working mans job. No one has ideas of grandeur. People go into that field because they fancy the role, know the terms are protected and are union men by heart.

For all it's criticism by middle England cheese and wine party types, being working class and a union man has left egg firmly on the face of many a so called "profession" that attracts smart arsed, egoistical types who believe they're too damn clever for that working mans stuff. Flying has been degraded to a game where it is a working man's game, bizarrely staffed by lots of bewlidered and head-in-sand middle class posh types posting on pprune that surely, surely, this can't be real. It is still a profession and we don't need to get down to the dirt and strike lines! Look where that arrogance has got you. We're all out on our own. Too late, too few want to play the working man game of powerful unions and standing strong. It's too late anyway. That time was years ago. It's happening and it's going quickly.

Count of Monte Bisto

6th Jul 2015, 22:38

FalconsRFab - the background to the Cat IIIB requirement is to do with limited sim space available for new pilots and every sim they can save is one less sim to resource. The Training Dept is flat out and every slot is accounted for. Hard rules but there you have it.

As an aside, there are very few people on here who know a whole lot about easyJet, but most people who work there have a good existence. The downer is that you work very hard and anyone joining expecting a quiet life will be sadly disappointed. There are many plus points though - good safety culture, good training, loads of new aircraft, good maintainance, big ops support setup, great people to work with and about as solid an airline financially as you get. It is not perfect but it is very good by today's standards. If you can join a national carrier you should do so, but easyJet is the next best thing.

McBruce

6th Jul 2015, 22:43

Sadly it's very easy to put the onus onto the lone voices applying. I bet you it would be far more easier to stop it via an already organised group from within than to expect all potential applicants to miraculously organise themselves to say no on an application form.

Count of Monte Bisto

7th Jul 2015, 11:54

737 Jockey - the reason easyJet makes massive profits is that they fight absolutely everyone for every penny, and that includes getting pilots to pay for type ratings. Alycidon refers to the issue of the CEO remuneration package - she is indeed extremely well paid, but she is also a massive asset to the Company that both shareholders (other than Stelios) and most employees have no desire to lose. It should also be stated that the vast majority of easyJet employees over the last few years have made very substantial sums of money over and beyond their salaries through company-provided share schemes.

The problem easyJet faces is the voracious competition from other low cost airlines - notably Ryanair, Vueling and Norwegian, not to mention the low cost arms of Lufthansa and Air France plus the 'others' like WizzAir. These competitors are paying rock bottom salaries and offering terrible terms and conditions to their pilots. It is inevitable that easyJet has to make some sort of move to keep their cost advantage. Among all those companies mentioned, easyJet is the best employer which is why people are queuing up to join. Like every airline in the world, there is tremendous downward pressure on terms and conditions and I do not see that changing in my professional lifetime. What I would say to anyone thinking of joining is to join with your eyes open. The terms and conditions are very clearly laid down, including liabilities for type ratings etc. If you do not like those terms, and I fully understand that you may not, then do not apply. This is not for everyone but among low cost carriers, with all their undoubted limitations, easyJet is, in my view, the best of the bunch. It is up to you if bright orange is what floats your boat - if it is not what you like, then you can rest assured there is a vast sea of very capable pilots out there who will gladly go there in your place.

737 Jockey

7th Jul 2015, 14:55

Count,

I agree with your synopsis and sentiments entirely. Time will tell if they fill their quota for the Summer schedule.

I'm sure they will be inundated with Rated applicants, let alone Non-Rated, as it is my belief that Easy is one of the most desirable companies in UK/Europe at this time.

I will apply, and I will tick the Disagree box when it comes to paying for the type rating. This will inevitably be the end of my dalliance with the Orange Brigade, but it is my way of saying, I'd like to join, but not at any cost. I am currently in a very good position, and therefore take the view (as humbly as possible) that they need me, more than I need them right now. I simply cannot afford to pay for a rating, I did that to get my first job (rightly or wrongly), but I was a Cadet and had no experience. Now as an experienced Captain & trainer, I feel I have a lot more to offer, and would be only too happy to be bonded to easy for whatever period they want.

Good luck to all that do apply... would be interested to hear back from those who do get invited for selection.

Count of Monte Bisto

7th Jul 2015, 23:55

737 Jockey - I genuinely hope you are given the chance to advance on through the process. The deciding factor in all this is supply and demand. If there are enough suitable applicants with ratings or who are willing to pay for them, then you will be given the 'Dear John' letter, but if not then it could be your lucky day. Regarding paying for the type rating, there has been talk internally of schemes whereby easyJet pays for the rating but you pay them back. I am not sure of the details, but I would certainly consider that as an option. This is an increasingly cut-throat business and I am in the fortunate position of having worked for easyJet for many years and not now having to go through the whole grim selection process. It is far from ideal, but once you are through it there are not many better places to be in Europe right now other than a national carrier with a lot of seniority behind you. Good luck anyway.

Cuillin Hills

8th Jul 2015, 10:50

As LGW based crew you would, ideally, be living within 30 minutes of the airport to make the roster manageable otherwise you may need to join the increasing number of Easyjet crew living in their RVs at the back of H Car Park!

FlyboyUK

8th Jul 2015, 13:00

Have any DEC's been through the process recently? Am aware of all the past info on here, but would be good to have some up to date info. Just been invited to stage 1

Elephant and Castle

8th Jul 2015, 15:04

Bear in mind that the rose tinted spectacles the Count wears have been out of stock for many years now. His is, probably, the most positive and optimistic of opinions of all the easyjet pilots bar none. Many, many company pilots do not share his optimism at all. While a sunny disposition is something certainly to be commended potential applicants would do well to take this into consideration.

stiglet

8th Jul 2015, 15:50

Cuillin Hills

Any proof of that?
Are you an easyJet pilot?
Do you park in H car park?

If not wind your neck in, people are looking for information and advice not the rubbish you peddle. Perhaps you're a reject.

Elephant

Many others feel the same way as the Count. There are few safer places to be at the moment than easyJet.

Elephant and Castle

8th Jul 2015, 16:23

Tell that to those based in Rome currently being forced to non commutable random rosters the other side of the country. Or those formerly based in Madrid, Dortmund, East Midlands, Bristol, Luton, Stansted.... Or the long string of people leaving LIS, OPO or refusing to go to AMS, BCN... Or the BALPA CC currently under a failure to agree process, or the cabin Crew about to vote on a strike ballot.... Just because the company is doing well it does not mean that:
A. Your job is safe
B. You will share on the success

if you feel safe it is simply for lacking the imagination to see that what is happening to other pilots in the company could happen to you too.

stiglet

8th Jul 2015, 17:18

Elephant

I am not unsympathetic to those in Rome, my thoughts are with them.
Get over Madrid, Dortmund, EMA and Stansted; that's in the past we all have to move on. Don't know what your issue with Luton and Bristol is. I have no sympathy with those in LIS and OPO they knew the offer when they accepted the job. I still think easy has the best terms and conditions and prospects outside BA at the moment by a long chalk if you want the UK or Europe.

As for sharing in the success they offer share/saving schemes and bonuses to the crew in addition to the other benefits the Count mentioned. Don't forget it's the sharholders who take the gamble and it is the shareholders who expect, for that gamble, the large share of the profit.

Unfortunately we work in a precarious environment at the moment where starters are opting to take financial gambles to get into a flying job. I don't like it as much as anyone else but this is where we are and we will have to deal with it.

My thoughts are with the CC, I fear it will all end it tears.

Count of Monte Bisto

8th Jul 2015, 17:54

With due deference to colleagues at other bases, there is no question that working at Gatwick is a hard business - arguably the hardest of all bases in terms of the daily grind, car parking hassles, roster changes, shortages of captains (which is why the people reading this are being recruited) and the much publicised ground handling issues. Nonetheless, we are talking to professional airline pilots here, and they will all go in with their eyes wide open to what life there is like. Elephant and Castle, like myself, is an experienced easyJet pilot and it is good to get the different range of perspectives of life at easyJet. I would be accused of being too positive - I simply choose to enjoy my working life, because if I do not then no one will for me. I also am very aware of life outside easyJet and despite the the Elephant man's protestations about the horrors of life in the orange empire, I do not see him suggesting better alternatives. I have openly stated that a national carrier is generally-speaking a better place to be if you can cope with the long wait for command, but in the absence of that opportunity I stand by my view that easyJet would be hard to beat. Nonetheless, I will defer to the naysayers and invite Elephant and Castle to provide us all with the names of better airlines who are not national carriers.

Regarding the base closures, we are all very sympathetic to those who have found themselves in a difficult position. The truth is that there have been winners and losers - those who have just bought houses or are locals with family are in a terrible position but others have had money thrown at them to go elsewhere have been less affected. Nonetheless, overall it is a great tragedy for most people involved. What it tells anyone with an ounce of common sense is that no airline has the right to exist at any base - money-in must exceed money-out. If easyJet cannot make money somewhere, they will be hard-nosed and close the base. That is the same for every company on the planet and anyone who is a professional airline pilot knows that is the harsh reality of life. I work at Gatwick, which is currently the golden goose, but the day that ceases to be the case, then I know my future there is in doubt. Anyone joining easyJet, or indeed any other airline should be under no illusion that the base they go to has to make money or it will close. Is that really a surprise to anyone?

HeartyMeatballs

8th Jul 2015, 19:21

I can assure you that eJ have not 'thrown money' at anyone. They'll give the minimum they can get away with. Anyone who does join must be prepared to be rather nomadic as base closures become more frequent. Don't expect any ounce of fairness or compassion neither should the worst happen.

Take MAD. It shut and Spain closed as a crew base. People moved on. Now BCN is open (on significantly worse terms than previous Spain contracts). Alleged those displaced by MAD closure will be given priority however people must show they have a connection and ties in the BCN area. Funny I don't see such a requirement for DEPs at BCN. So as usual those who have worked there will be treated second class compared to new joiners.

NG708

21st Jul 2015, 13:48

Does anyone have any experience of what sort of hours and working patterns you could expect at AMS?

Also, what is the current time to command estimate for an experienced FO? I'm presuming at least 2 years?

Any info on what they are looking for at the application and interview stage would be appreciated.

An idea of take home pay for a typical month would also be appreciated.

monkeyferret777

24th Jul 2015, 12:55

Does anyone know if a non-tr dec got into gatwick- would they be frozen to base? Eg trying to get to luton- how long would it take?

SpGo

24th Jul 2015, 16:35

Transfer lists for captains are loooong. Expect at least 5 years for UK (bar LGW) and probably 20 years for Toulouse or Nice.

monkeyferret777

24th Jul 2015, 19:37

Ok thanks a lot. Yes I did think that. Shame.

Googlebug

24th Jul 2015, 21:48

From What I understand your base frozen for 5 years. After that you can join the lists. Some are long line Newcastle and Stanstead. But the likes of larger bases like Luton Millan Paris will take maybe just a couple of years.

Narrow Runway

25th Jul 2015, 08:40

Are type rated captains frozen at LGW for 5 years?
Or, can you get on a list ASAP?From What I understand your base frozen for 5 years. After that you can join the lists. Some are long line Newcastle and Stanstead. But the likes of larger bases like Luton Millan Paris will take maybe just a couple of years.

737 Jockey

25th Jul 2015, 12:32

What is the call out time from home standby? And are there airport standbys?

Plastic787

25th Jul 2015, 14:27

How much of an exodus to BA is to be expected? They can't replace all those people with CTC cadets, surely?

EpsilonVaz

26th Jul 2015, 00:11

Home standby call out is 90 minutes and larger bases have airport standbys. Home standby rostered length is usually 8 hours and airport standby 7 hours.

Gnat1809

26th Jul 2015, 11:11

With regard to an exodus to BA, (I'm an EZY FO) last year I was never asked by any captain if I had applied to BA, this year, I would say 9 out of 10 days I'm asked if I've applied, and they usually tell me that pretty much every FO they have flown with recently has an application in.

Superpilot

26th Jul 2015, 11:26

..and 4/5 candidates at the selection on any given day are from easyjet.

EMB-145LR

26th Jul 2015, 11:35

The three days of my selection must have been the exception to the rule than, as I didn't meet a single easyJet guy the whole way through the process. There were plenty of Flybe, Jet2 and Ryanair guys. Of my friends at easyJet, I don't know of one that has decided to jump ship to BA. Then again, they're all fairly senior and living in low pressure regional bases.

Superpilot

27th Jul 2015, 09:29

I've been in 3 times over the last 12 months and with the exception of one guy from Wizz and two from Aer Lingus, the remainder (circa 25) were EZY. No surprises really. I guess you attended a day that was for non rated only then.

Lawro

27th Jul 2015, 09:55

The more Fo's that leave Easyjet the happier the management will be ! They can replace them overnight with more self funded cadets willing to pay to sit in the right hand seat on ever inferior contracts . CTC & Oxford have a never ending stream of these & are constantly increasing their output .

DEC's are a good thing for the airline & going to be an increased requirement over the next few years . Good luck to all.

haveago

22nd Aug 2015, 05:07

Agree with the above. Very little info on basic pay, pension, leave, extras, etc.. Does anyone have any info? Would be appreciated! Thanks

Thad Jarvis

22nd Aug 2015, 12:57

Capts are 5453 fixed pattern in the UK. 97 basic + sector pay. Lol is 1.3 basic. Pension 7%. Loyalty bonus depends on length of service up to 15%. Perf bonus annual - currently max 5% normally around 2.5. Staff travel (pretty useless). No medical cover. Leave 25 days
Basics ok, the rest isn't great as you can see. They reckon they need 110 Capts next year. The real figure more like 150. There are around 600 FOs chasing those positions and the management are confident they will be filled internally. DEC is for a pool in case they get stuck unless you want LIS/OPO of which case you can start tomorrow - but ask yourself why nobody else wants them.

Narrow Runway

22nd Aug 2015, 14:33

DEC is happening and it is happening now. Not sure why you suspect it is a fishing exercise, Thad?

The Crew

23rd Aug 2015, 06:25

A mate of mine from Qatar applied recently for DEC. Got assessment day notification same week.
So they just fishing lol ?

Pin Head

23rd Aug 2015, 08:19

What do they want requirement wise for a application?

Boeing experience, lots of it, a conversation stopper?

FlyboyUK

23rd Aug 2015, 11:02

Requirements are on the website, lots of us Boeing guys at a recent assessment day

SpGo

24th Aug 2015, 09:31

Pin Head, Boeing experience is ok, but you will have to pay for your Airbus rating.

dudubrdx

28th Aug 2015, 17:19

Hello,

I've been told the terms for the LIS and OPO bases have been slightly improved. To what extent is that true?
Been invited for interviews for the opo base and want to have all facts.

Cheers

C212-100

29th Aug 2015, 12:23

Hello,

I've been told the terms for the LIS and OPO bases have been slightly improved. To what extent is that true?
Been invited for interviews for the opo base and want to have all facts.

Cheers

LIS and OPO Bases are (and will continue to be for the time being) the same since 2013. That Agreement is valid till Jan 2017.

Cheers.

sebatsea

1st Sep 2015, 16:45

hello everybody, a quick question on the SIM ride for the NTR FOs...Does anybody know anything on how/on what kind of SIM will it be? What are they looking at? I am looking for info online, but unfortunately, nothing pops up that might help...
Any input will be much appreciated.
Thx

The Crew

2nd Sep 2015, 04:10

Dear DEC & FOs , Make hay while the sun shines. With the economic cold wind starting to blow, we know which infustry will splutter first .
Easy n Ryan have frozen recruitment for now . Fully booked. Prob start again when BA confirm positions for courses in Feb/ March.

Narrow Runway

2nd Sep 2015, 09:26

Still accepting applications online, or so it appears.

The Crew

2nd Sep 2015, 15:11

Yep . But who's interviewing ?
Who's taking the jobs on offer ?
Whos staying put ?

ezy320

3rd Sep 2015, 02:19

Guys and girls, please read the contracts very carefully before you want to join and don´t believe any blind promises!

For the new bases (not LGW & BALPA) such as VCE, BCN, OPO, NAP or LIS:

- Expect very long transfer time to go to decent bases!
- NO fixed roster: forget commuting!
- Random only FRV 132 days OFF with no compensation (for Italian contracts this would imply normally a 10% uplift in salary!)
- NO loyality bonus & no pensions in BCN, virtually nothing in OPO & LIS!
- Basic ca. 100t CPT, SO 35t FO 47t basic (plus sector pay). These figure are BEFORE the tax man!
- new EASA regulation, no CAP371, FRMS guidance hardly followed

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Unless you are desperate and you can afford it, go ahead. Unfortunately, easyJet has changed a lot!

WonderBus

3rd Sep 2015, 10:00

The winter training for new entrant FOs has just begun/beginning with circa 300 joining. I would imagine more movement early next year.

With a rumoured 300 FOs leaving for BA and circa 120+ promotions to the left, I think there's going to be a need that Oxford and CTC alone can't fill. The 300 to be trained this winter hasn't accounted for that much attrition. The fleet is expanding from 220 to 300 over the next five years as well. As well as another record year for profits. Based on this I can't see an end to DEC and DEFO recruitment for a little while, especially if BA keep poaching the experienced FOs and leaving a large experience gap.

Just my thoughts though.

MonarchOrBust

3rd Sep 2015, 14:21

Offer the bases we want and we we'd be interested. I fly from a UK airport where half the EZ pilots sound foreign, I bet they want to go home too!

Most of us just can't risk leaving present jobs only to be based gawdknowswhere,

Right Touch

3rd Sep 2015, 14:34

Unfortunately the UK regional bases already have long internal waiting lists with plenty of guys waiting patiently for their turn to go home to their base of choice.

All of course except Gatwick which is where 90% of internal promotions to the LHS and all DEC end up going , hence the many different accents you hear on the radio.:ok:

box

3rd Sep 2015, 20:43

All complete sh!t apart from VCE. Bon voyage.

Warrior2

3rd Sep 2015, 21:37

Does anyone actually know what the cost of the type rating is?

Wodka

4th Sep 2015, 08:06

Why does a company in such rude health need to ask experienced pilots to pay for a TR? This really pi$$es me off!

A proper 2/3 year non contributing bond for experienced guys would yield many high quality applicants imo.

I won't apply because I can't afford it, pure and simple.

monkeyferret777

4th Sep 2015, 09:01

Woah £38k for the type rating?!?! are you sure?? ......nice timing with Easy upping their estimated profit for this year!!!

Coffin Corner

4th Sep 2015, 09:27

And herein is part of the reason why they are recording record profits. Also the reason why they charge that much for type ratings? Because starry eyed wannabes are prepared to pay it, pure and simple, they are queuing up to pay Easyjet the money. :ugh:

Mr Good Cat

4th Sep 2015, 09:37

Wow, that much for the rating. Seriously?

How are they getting non-rated DECs? Trawling the newspapers for lottery winners? :}

737 Jockey

4th Sep 2015, 09:38

The type rating cost for DEC/DEFO is £20-25k upfront. Still a piss take when they're predicting £700m profit. A bond or monthly salary deduction would be much fairer, especially as they also only pay you 90% salary for the first six months... Approx. another £5k for a Skipper! Shame :(

Warrior2

4th Sep 2015, 11:07

Id be expecting a share in the company for that kind of money! 38K is way too much for a type rating.

TRY2FLY

4th Sep 2015, 12:47

In the current climate they may need to re adjust their thinking with regard to charging for a type rating.

Company Message

4th Sep 2015, 13:09

I doubt it, there is an unlimited queue of suckers clammering to give us their money. :ugh:

Twiglet1

4th Sep 2015, 20:49

38k wtf are they on that's a p1$$ take and shameful. I recently chatted to a new Ryanair FO at EMA the day before his induction and he was intending sleeping in his car for a week. FR are selling that they are trying to improve service etc - how about starting to look after their Staff for once rather than the continuos desire for more profit and better than Easyjet at any cost ðŸ˜žðŸ˜ž

G-IZMO

5th Sep 2015, 10:09

When was the last NTR FO recruitment drive? 2013, or was there another since?

737 Jockey

7th Sep 2015, 09:46

Have any NTR DEC applicants been offered a position yet?

Cheers.

ezy320

7th Sep 2015, 18:05

:=:=

People i know have declined the crap contract when they have been send out and after careful reading. Compared to the likes of Wizz there is only little difference. Even Vueling in BCN pays long-term much more as a Skipper!

E.g, Vueling offers per block hour 63EUR up to 106EUR (>75h per month) plus diary of 100 EUR per day!! Even when you consider a less basic salary it will significantly offset the higher basic pay in easyJet!!

Assuming you fly 850h in Vueling (in EZY you´ll work your ass OFF as well), and fly 100h over the 75h threshold and 120 day per year (will be more) that´s already a uplift of 70t! Even in year one it would outperform the basic easyJet salary plus sector pay. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

EZY offers NO loyality bonus, NO pensions, holidays of just 25 days per year, crap uniforms, no sick pay, FRV 123 and no contractual agreement to go for better paid bases. What a shame ... :{:{:{:{:{

Only LGW T&C are the same like the old contracts, thanks to BALPA. TheHence a lot of Monarch guy are queuing up for it. But forget the other bases!!The questions is for how long???

Lawro

7th Sep 2015, 19:12

Easyjet has a very good training set up & a fineSOP structure which protects the weaker candidates.

They will be over the moon with more & more Captains & Fo's leaving as they have a huge list of cheap replacements chomping at the bit to land a job whatever the conditions which they will do just as well.

The industry is collapsing for pilots . The days of it being perceived as a profession are long gone & anyone thinking they're leaving easy to the promised land are going to get a shock.

The terms & conditions at ALL airlines are being eroded . They are all chasing each other to compete with lower & lower conditions.

Regulators FTL's are now becoming more & more stretched & a career is now not feasible full time.

All you guys who payed to get to the front of the queue are going to be faced with greater & greater costs to stay there ! You can rent your big cars & get ever increasing mortgages to make you feel you're good old aviators but you're just McPilots kidding yourselves !

12 months left for me , can't wait !!!!!!!

WX Man

11th Sep 2015, 05:48

Lawro, you lucky bugger. Wish I had 12 months left. Instead I have about 30 years left (at the moment. This is before the government in 10 years' start b*ggering around with the retirement age again).

Picking up your point, there was an article in the FT yesterday. Some guy was writing that when he bought his house, he was a university lecturer on a salary equivalent to £40,000 today. Now, the area he lives in London is characterised by houses (and flats) with 7 figure price tags, beyond the reach of even the relatively well paid.

Us pilots fall into the "relatively well paid" category. Yes, our contracts these days are nothing like the contracts of old. More's the pity. However, take an F/O at Eastern, who's probably on about £30K. That still puts him/her in the top 20-25% percentile. CityFlyer, about £43K. Top 15 percentile. Jet2, £50K.

What's gone wrong in the meantime is the transfer of wealth from the factory floor to the boardroom. Executive pay is now 183 times more than the lowest paid people, up from about 160 times 3 years ago.

In all that time, the property price inflation in the UK has exacerbated the problem, drawing disposable income away from the workers.

What I'm saying is that this industry is no different to any other industry. And, in summary... we're all f**ked.

PS take your pension early before the stock market crashes, mate! :*

jmmoric

12th Sep 2015, 17:33

WX man, it's cheaper to pay the executive 183 times the pay of the ordinary worker than raising all the workers pay accordingly.

Interrestingly enough, the executive himself is slashing the payment to workers, thereby saving the company a lot of money, and in the meantime gets a salaryraise which is nothing compared to the saved expenses.

We've fostered a generation of selfish young people who think they're the centre of the universe who think they can handle themselves and doesn't need to be part of a group while negotiating salaries... Problem is, that kind of people get screwed over without even recognizing it, while they still believe in the "everyone for himself" slogan being so much published by liberalists these days.

The only type of people that gain on this, are the stockholders, which annoyingly enough are even the worker themselves, (even those that now complain about the "young blood" have stocks, and an conflicting interrest in the matter) and ofcourse the executives.

LLuCCiFeR

12th Sep 2015, 19:24

In the end our current Ponzi scheme house of cards economy will collapse anyways, simply because people have no spending power anymore and will slow down/stop consuming. :E

All those incompetent CEO's are complaining that "business is slow" but at the same time they expect their own employees to keep on spending whilst salaries, pensions, health care and employment security is being eroded. Duh! :D

The only smart thing ANY pilot can do it: GET OUT OF DEBT!!

As for all the newbies who were stupid enough to pay >£100k for flight training since 2008 I do feel sorry, but there is not much they can do.

They will most probably NEVER be able to pay off that massive amount of debt, and the only 'advice' I can give them is: when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

Stop getting yourself deeper and deeper in debt, stop paying for type ratings, stop paying for training, stop paying for 500-1000 hour 'programs, and stop making the problem worse by flying for peanuts for low-cost airlines in order to get flight hours, because those flight hours will NOT get you anywhere and you'll only lose precious years of your life.

Be a man (m/f) and admit that you've made a wrong decision, admit that you've been lied to by flight schools, airlines and banks who gave you those loans, and (re-)negotiate with your bank about debt restructuring (remember, when the big bank almost went bankrupt in 2008 they didn't hesitate or were shy to ask for a bailout! :rolleyes:) and restart your life with a clean slate while you're still young! :ok:

WonderBus

13th Sep 2015, 17:59

I am young, a product of a training school and have a loan. So, in summary, the subject of Lluccifer's ire.

In the interest of balance and perspective, here is my situation:
Yes I do have a loan, no it doesn't need renegotiating. I am on a good easyJet UK contract. This is isn't unusual or hard to come by, but the normal in the UK. Unfortunately I'll concede that easyJet has a long list of faults and some of the European contracts leave a lot to be desired.

With regards to gaining experience and going no where, myself and circa 300 easyJet FOs have/are joined/joining BA because we have the requisite experience.

Ultimately joining easyJet or becoming a 'cadet' is an individual choice, but I spent my whole time training reading posts on pprune slating my chosen route and telling me that I'd end up jobless with a huge loan. It hasn't happened and I don't consider myself an anomaly. Whilst I'm not saying jump headlong into it all consider that the people who are happy in their jobs don't generally bother with pprune and people who have issues bravely do so from behind a veil of anonymity. Consider all the options, what you really want and what is right for you and ask the right people for advice.

The Crew

14th Sep 2015, 04:43

Apparently no more interviews for LGW DEC @ Easy this year ?

Lawro

14th Sep 2015, 23:51

WOnderbus you miss the point . It's not about being jobless , the point is that ever increasing numbers of people who want to pay to get to the front of the queue are changing the job completely.

The industry has now become based upon stumping up cash . The employers from easy to Ryan & BA are filling their boots with people eager to clamber over the guy ahead of him ready to accept lower pay & conditions , it's happening at every airline.

Why are BA taking on so many low hour guys right now ? Could it be similar to the large intake of cabin crew over the last 8 years , busting the unions & obliterating the decent contracts ? You chat to many of the BA crew I used to work with about pay & conditions & how they are now in comparison to 10 years ago.

CTC pumping out many many more this year & they're all eyeing up your job & are willing to do it for less than you !

Mikehotel152

15th Sep 2015, 14:05

the point is that ever increasing numbers of people who want to pay to get to the front of the queue are changing the job completely.

Ever increasing numbers are required! The industry has trebled in size since 1990. Who are supposed to be crewing these aeroplanes? Even if the airlines were not (unreasonably) biased against experienced turboprop operators, there is a massive need for new blood.

Now, since the dawn of the industry little boys and girls have looked to the skies upon hearing the roar or aero-engines. Whilst back in 1960 or 1980 only a privileged few got the chance to follow in Daddy's footsteps, the opportunity is within the reach of many more youngsters.

Yes, it is very unfair that airlines are subsidising ticket prices with cuts to their training budgets, but to those keen to become commerical pilots in Europe there are almost no other options but to pay for a rating. But you cannot lay the blame at the feet of the new joiners. Given the choice, none of them would pay for a job.

PPRuNeUser0183

23rd Sep 2015, 06:52

I have to admit that the idea of paying for a type-rating doesn't thrill me, but everybody has to make a decision relative to their own situation, and I have to make a decision that works for me in the long term. (looking forward, not back at the good old days).

Is easyJet a place you can stay for 10 years, many allude to rosters that will kill you, without quantifying - how many flight hours per year are typical please (LGW CAPT)? Approx how many days working and how many standby on FRV123?

And if cares to share... anybody who has been offered direct entry command at LGW... what's being offered? PPJN talks about new-joiners getting random rosters, but "once permanent"??? - Is it a fixed contract being offered to captains???

Thanks for any info. :ok:

EcamSurprise

24th Sep 2015, 23:05

DEC LGW is the onto the usual, perm, union agreed LGW contract just like any other skipper based there.

No flexi, no random roster, no base freeze as far as I know. You should be on 5453 from day 1. Other bases are a different story.

Hours depend on base. LGW is hard work. I'm in a regional and fly about 750 a year and feel quite OK most of the time.
Some long days for sure but also some lovely 2 sector trips where I am.

PPRuNeUser0183

25th Sep 2015, 20:59

Thanks Ecam

highfive

26th Sep 2015, 03:19

Anyone done an assessment day for rated crew?

Is there a tech exam based on A320 series?

Do they do the old BA CRM test with a pile of Mechano , build a spaceship ?

Can post or PM me tks

EcamSurprise

26th Sep 2015, 16:35

You're welcome.

If anything else, then by PM is best.

ezy320

28th Sep 2015, 13:39

Be aware of a heavy LGW roster, especially in the summer combined with long parking time and crew absence. Fatigue is a big issue at the moment, and roster is definitely NOT long term sustainable with a 5-3-5-4 pattern at the table. BALPA is still in negotiations with regards to the new EASA FTL, but the company does not see any need for improvements.

Warrior2

2nd Oct 2015, 08:08

Anyone find out what the Lisbon contract is like? Or would anyone working in EZ like to send me a PM? Much appreciated

highfive

5th Oct 2015, 07:07

Anyone know anything about the hold pool with EZY? Is it like BAs that you can spend a year in before they tell you to re apply?
How many times can a sucessful candidate in the hold pool turn down an offer of employment before they kick you out ?
Any info appreciated
H5

737 Jockey

6th Oct 2015, 15:30

H5,

Just out of interest, why would you decline a job offer if you were already in the hold pool? It's not like BA where you have the long haul/short haul option. The applications were for a specific base, so presumably you would've applied for that, and been offered the same?

Has anyone received an offer yet or maybe even started, that applied for DEC rated or non rated?

:ok:

VJW

6th Oct 2015, 23:29

737 Jockey.. I'd guess timing. Being in a hold pool works both ways. The majority of us have a life outside of work, and real world things come up. Things like weddings, birth of a child, holidays, bereavements are some obvious reasons as to why someone might delay being plucked out the pool. The list goes on, but it's unlikely those applying as a DEC are looking at the phone the whole time they're swimming only to answer it and decline a job for no reason.

stiglet

8th Oct 2015, 09:19

This business of declining a job offer to stay in the hold pool I find very strange. At best you could drop out of the pool and at worst you wont be offered again. It's a chance few could risk taking if the job was really of interest to them in the first place. Another reason not to decline is that with hundreds of new recruits coming through the system continuously that puts you well down the seniority list delaying your prospects of promotion and transfers even further.

highfive, are you already employed by a LOCO or are you just repeating what you've heard? I appreciate it is all subjective and some bases are more popular for a variety of reasons: some personal and some operational but in all the years I've worked for easyJet I have never felt that I have been treated, 'like commodities, are impersonal and with contempt'. You work hard but the rewards are there. By the sound of your post it is definately not the place for you.

Have some of you thought that this doom and gloom could be to deter you and make other's chances more likely? Or by reducing the interest or number of applications they feel the offer may improve? You pay the price and take your chance. If you get the offer and choose to take it I don't think you'll be disappointed. Very few airlines are as stable as easyJet if security of employment is what you're looking for.

Plastic787

8th Oct 2015, 09:33

Stiglet very few airlines are as stable as easyJet I agree. But the job itself is relentless (and arguably tedious) beyond belief at Gatwick, just ask the new guys who've joined easy from other airlines as DEC, many of whom feel they've made the wrong decision.

Don't get me wrong I've enjoyed it here, there's a great bunch of people who make it more bearable but you simply cannot expect to be able to do this for the rest of a 30 year + career now. I'm less than one year in and I've already sussed this out, it is simply far too fatiguing. Balpa are currently in this fight with the company and it is one that simply MUST be won for the very future of this career.

All this is a comment on the industry nowadays rather than necessarily specific to easyJet I concede. But easyJet (with others) are at the forefront of it.

stiglet

8th Oct 2015, 10:59

I'm sorry 'many' new DEC feel they've made the wrong decision; that is indeed unfortunate and regreatable. And I'm surprised that 1 yr in you are finding the job tedious, however that is the nature of the job; you make of it what you will. Hard work yes but tedious? Take a reality check of most other jobs and count your blessings :) Gatwick is undoubatably the workhorse of the company but if you aspire to live in the UK, south of the Thames it is, I believe, the best show in town. For those who desire transfers they will need to sit tight until the opportunity arises.

As for the sustainability of the roster and options that is something indeed all pilots in all airlines will be fighting for; the challenge is to improve our situation but not to the detriment of our company and because we are at the forefront of the industry it is arguably more challenging for us. I believe more options will become available making a 30 yr + career more viable. This industry is fickel when it comes to tickets sales and shareholder investment; the public are much more savvy these days and things can turn very quickly to put an airline out of favour. We are more stable than most but on the other hand we have further to fall.

BA, the company many aspire to for a variety of reasons have much of the same issues as us in SH and the benefits are not all necessarily one way; again 'it's horses for courses'. Not all who have jumped ship that way feel that their move was the right one in retrospect either.

Your first sentence of the second paragraph make it sound as if you are on the move; if so I wish you well for the future. The grass is not always greener and we mostly suffer the same issues regards rosters and the new EASA limitations as other airlines.

Many posts here appear to be without inside knowledge and I feel give a one sided impression of easyJet; some in my view appear to be showing some form of agenda. I just wanted to provide a balance to that by giving a view from someone who has flown for a number of companies, seen many ups and downs in the industry and been in easyJet for a considerable time.

Plastic787

8th Oct 2015, 11:19

I just meant tedious at LGW with regard to the persistent delays and perpetual shoddy handling, which leave you spending most days playing catch-up and apologising to passengers. What other bases are like in the UK I have no experience to comment on.

I have nothing against the company at all but there are major issues with Gatwick, which are only going to get worse as they try to plough more and more aircraft in there. It's a mess.

You're right, I'm out soon but only really because I have other long term goals. No complaints against the many I have worked with who have mostly been a pleasure to work with, as I said.

Mr Angry from Purley

8th Oct 2015, 17:32

You can always take your own life into your hands and go part time. It's work life balance Pilots always demand, sometimes forgetting that the balance bit is the bank balance not always for the Company to fix.
:\

ezy320

8th Oct 2015, 19:05

Stiglet, do you actual talk to your fellow colleagues sitting next to you? Indeed, many of our great Fo´s are leaving. Bless them. Even the ones who are ready to undertake command. Does it make commercially sense where we need them now the most with our huge expansion plans? They will be soon replaced by cheaper workforce: highly motivated but with huge loan to repay & willing to fly and accept everything. Is this how a seriously airline is run? The experience level will continue to drop further. Our DEC are getting slowly the idea of just being a numbers, ready to be squeezed out and thrown away. What about our Captains on long-term sickness due to fatigue? With long term damaging health effects. But what can you do, if you simply have no choice? The company will never recognize that investing more into people and providing viable roster can actually save substantial money.

:confused::confused:

stiglet

9th Oct 2015, 08:19

A strange question ezy320, which was most likely rhetorical, but yes I do actually talk to my colleagues.

Many of 'our great FO's' are staying as well; the one's who are leaving would always have looked elsewhere, and like Plastic787 probably have other long term goals. With the likes of BA recruiting now and offering LH now or in the future it makes sense for them to jump ship sooner rather than later. The LH dream of some is something easyJet cannot offer.

I don't know where you have heard about 'our huge expension plans' or what they consist of. The easyJet journey has been one of continued expansion which is now becoming more of a consolidation exercise. Our increasing pilot recruitment is down: in part to this consolidation and more options to go PT, as well as the lure of the likes of BA. For every FO or skipper we loose it is an opportunity for another FO or DEC to get a job or a step up the promotion ladder for those who stay so could arguably be viewed as a win-win.

Experience is something I do value highly but flying and operating an aircraft is not rocket science and these new recruits gain that experience very quickly in easyJet. The training inside and outside the airlines these days has changed and is excellent preparation for the job. What is wanted besides motivation and attitude is the desire for the job and this is demostrated one way or another by those leaving or joining.

So to those leaving, good luck and to those joining welcome. As Mr Angry implies your life is down to you to fix which is not necessarily leaving one company for the next. You do not join a company and get everything you want immediately; somtimes you have to wait for opportunities to arise such as LH, command or base.

You rock

9th Oct 2015, 08:48

Good Morning

Could someone tell me some info on Ezy

I am 45 yrs old, looking at doing a Easa conversion, considerable wide body experience international ops. Have never flown a airbus.

Have a euro passport and wife is from Napoli.

If I were too get a easa conversion and a 320 type rating, what chance of joining ezy as a SFO 320 napoli base

Also what is the net take home pay for a SFO

cheers
You rock is online now Report Post

Northern Monkey

9th Oct 2015, 09:35

For what it's worth I did 3 years as an FO at EasyJet Gatwick. I've now done about 4 years at BA and am (very fortunately) about 70% off the bottom of the Airbus P2 status list. It is moving quickly at the moment I grant you.

My job at EasyJet and my job now bear no resemblance. People in BA moan as they do in every airline but honestly, my life now is immeasurably better than it was. My biggest problem with EasyJet was the constant roster changes - your life on your days on belonged to the company. I honestly don't know how people with childcare and other commitments make it work if both parents are working. I think in 4 years of flying for BA my roster has changed twice, both times trips taken off me for training.

People stay at EasyJet for a quick command, and that's fair enough. But I think there is a slow shift underway from people chasing money, to people chasing lifestyle. For me, that is why I left. I found 5453 hugely fatiguing and the thought of doing it for 30 years was unbearable. No one really knows yet what flying that kind of roster to 850 hours a year is going to do to your health over the long term... we're the first ones to be faced with doing it for an entire career!

EasyJet is a solid secure job and in the left hand seat the pay is great. But there's more to life than money.

9 minutes to landing

10th Oct 2015, 08:34

Hi Northern Monkey,

Of interest, how many hours a year are you doing with BA on their shorthaul network?

Northern Monkey

10th Oct 2015, 14:44

9 minutes,

In the interests of keeping this on thread about EasyJet, PM sent.

G-IZMO

11th Oct 2015, 07:51

Are EZY likely to run another experienced NTR recruitment process like they did in 2013? Anyone know?

stiglet

11th Oct 2015, 08:03

JosuaNkomo

11th Oct 2015, 08:44

To provide perspective. If you are based outside the shambles that is LGW easyjet is a good prospect. Good roster stability. Pay is OK. 5453 is workable.

Why easyjet thought they could enforce a "low cost model" at a "single" runway institutionally disfunctional airport like LGW is beyond reason. If you don't hold a local ID the dispatcher has to let you airside to do the walk around...WTF.

OnTheNumbers

2nd Nov 2015, 13:29

Anyone going for the sim assessment at eazy?

alkor

10th Nov 2015, 18:55

Hi all,

Any info regarding Easy NTR DEC assessment stages highly appreciated!!

personal interview
sim
tech
video interview

You can PM as well.

Thanks in advance.

a

737 Jockey

25th Nov 2015, 18:51

Interesting development for the Portuguese bases. Non type rated Captains being offered a funded conversion onto the Airbus. How do the new NTR candidates feel about forking out £20k for theirs? :{

FGE319

25th Nov 2015, 22:09

You talk about CRM, culture, respect and decency and yet you refer to the DEC's joining easyJet as desperados. How does that reflect on you? They will be your colleagues; how about you treating them with respect and decency. I don't see your attitude as typical easyJet culture. Give respect and you will get it in return. Perhaps you feel the company are not giving you personally respect; have you thought it maybe because of your attitude

I've flown with low hour guys and 5 year SFOs this week, and have treated both with the same respect, although anyone that's flown with me will know that I'm pretty laid back when its the RHS sector, as long as nothing stupid/dangerous is done (which is extremely rare)

I left EZY then returned back into the LHS 2 years later (after 7 years LHS with the company before that). Does that mean I was a desperado too?

Before that gets answered, I did what I was sure (and still am sure) was the right decision for me and my family at the time.

Treat with respect and get respect back is the way I see it.

FGE319

25th Nov 2015, 22:13

Perhaps they would be better served by concentrating on eliminating the discriminatory 'ability to pay' as a barrier to employment with easyjet; How's your socio-economic diversity at EJ, eh HR?

Easy hasn't, however, gone down the p2f model as far as I can remember, unlike some airlines.

The 'ability to pay' issue is a case in most airlines, and blaming Easy for the issue probably isn't going to be the way forward.

There is also a virtual guarantee of a permenant contract at the end of the 2 year flexi contract, again unlike some airlines. Oh, and the chance of a quick (industry-wide) command, too.

USA1pilot

25th Nov 2015, 22:21

Cae Oxford in cooperation with easyJet are charging there students 54.000 euro's for the a320 type rating when hired! I call that p2f!

FGE319

25th Nov 2015, 22:50

If true, that is disgusting!

Although OAA are well known for being expensive anyway; I originally trained in what's now Serbia, the course costs last year were about €50k (less than £40k) for CPL, IR and MCC/JOC. How OAA can charge more than double for that is beyond me, but there we are.....

A lot of the trainees from there are now flying for Wizz, Air Malta, Turkish etc, so by no means a Mickey Mouse outfit.

USA1pilot

26th Nov 2015, 07:27

easy

26th Nov 2015, 08:27

Paying for your type rating isn't quite the same as paying to fly the aircraft during line operations. Even when airlines still provided type ratings (In my case secured by a bank guaranteed bond) wannabees still bought their own ratings to try to enhance their recruitment prospects. So I'm sorry, but OAA asking you to pay for your type rating is not P2F. :*

USA1pilot

26th Nov 2015, 09:03

I agree that paying for a type rating is not p2f. But if the price is that high that I could do the type rating at another trto almost 2 or 3 times. Then I call it p2f!

hobnobanyone

26th Nov 2015, 09:14

Easyjet, a FTSE100 company, do this?

Sorry but that, if true, is just disgusting.

Fundamentally, a FTSE100 company should not be charging people for their own training. It
S a sad fact that there will always be people who accept this.

What's wrong with a 3 year bond and a promissory note?

Disgusting behaviour easy jet, hang your heads in shame. £686 million profit and you still make pilots pay for their own training.

The Mixmaster

26th Nov 2015, 09:23

Toothless union, a majority of apathetic colleagues and a severe recession in 2008 is to blame for all this pay for rating nonsense. The only thing that will change it is market forces.

Deano777

26th Nov 2015, 09:47

Actually Easyjet don't make or force anyone to pay for their training or type ratings. It's all completely optional. The blame lies squarely at the foot of the cadets and individuals who sign up for it. Ask yourself this: if nobody paid up, would these ****ty contracts and deals exist? The simple answer is no. But alas, people will still continue to throw money at them.

hobnobanyone

26th Nov 2015, 09:53

Deano, it's a chicken and egg situation though. If the cadets and experienced pilots stopped signing up to this, then the company will have no option but to stop recruiting like this. But they don't and they move enmasse towards it. There is no incentive for the company to stop this and to break the chain would be very difficult now.

A combination of these schemes and greedy training schools has lead to everybody wanting to get a job at the expense of everyone else. And seemingly the best way to do this is to pay to get ahead.

What I hate, and can't stand, is the morally repugnant notion that a company with so much profit and such strong year on year performance, who could afford to fund the training easily, are exploiting this stream of pilots in order to achieve labour costs as cheap as possible.

Deano777

26th Nov 2015, 10:15

hobnob, completely agree with your top paragraph, it is chicken and egg in a way, but we are unfortunately at the mercy of the European Union as well because the aviation industry in Europe is still pretty much on it's knees so everyone is flooding to the UK for jobs (I'm not xenophobic by the way), this means there is a never ending supply of people willing to throw money at the industry, and if it was confined to the UK only then there might be a little hope that something will give, but we all know it'll never happen.
Easyjet are laughing their socks off, and yes their profits are partly the by-product of us throwing money at them, unfortunately they'll never change unless they have to, so the only way to force a change lies firmly at our feet.

Don't get me started about CTC.

stiglet

26th Nov 2015, 10:45

In most professions these days individuals are investing in their own future; take university costs. It's not ony pilots who pay for their training so do doctors etc. Many people told the cadets not to pay for their training but they did and now 5 years on in their late twenties many of those pilots have their command and are being paid 100k+. Same with the type rating - if you want the job think ahead and work out if you think the outlay is worth the future remuneration. If you do get on the ladder as soon as you can. This is the way things are now. How many people earn 100k in their late twenties or have in the past; I think this is a good investment? Even BA, who used to prefer raw recruits are now giving preference to those with ratings. Times change and you have to move with the times; in the future it may change again but at the moment this is what we have. To blame easyJet or even aviation is futile.

USA1pilot

26th Nov 2015, 11:07

To be clear where not blamming easyjet for asking money for a TR, but we are blamming them for asking so much money that the price of the TR is more then doubled!

NLP

26th Nov 2015, 18:33

I'm a guy who paid the ridiculous sum of money and I do blame easyJet and their partners (CTC/OAA).

Less then 2 weeks before signing the contract I received the exciting news that I had to pay £38.400,- instead of £32.000,-. Goodluck with persuading the bank to pay an extra £6.400,- within 2 weeks. They do not care at all about the financial situation of their new FO's.

Offcourse there is the option to tell them no, with the risk to sit at home for years like many other graduated ab initio pilots.. No thanks.

If a company treats its people well they are loyal. Guess how loyal me and my coursemates are..

Mr Angry from Purley

27th Nov 2015, 16:45

NLP
Do you get accommodation included in the 38k when on the conversion?
I was asked in the summer by a F/O joining FR where was the best place to park his Car as he was going to sleep rough during induction.
Do you get a breakdown of what 38k pays for, i suspect a lot goes straight into someones bank account :\

antonov09

27th Nov 2015, 22:24

Easyjet charging 38k i.e. nearly 55k euros for a type rating from cadets is disgusting.

And also asking non rated experienced guys to pay too. It's an absolute shambles.

Why can't they bond experienced guys? Jet2 AFAIK do and also FLYBE. Ryanair are even bonding non rated experienced guys as well on to permanent contracts.

Supply and demand I suppose.

highfive

28th Nov 2015, 03:12

I'm thinking of investing in a few caravans and parking them around the back of CTC . Would be an excellent induction to the future lifestyle of today's P2F pilots:ugh:

NLP

28th Nov 2015, 05:13

@Mr Angry from Purley (http://www.pprune.org/members/35811-mr-angry-from-purley)

Nope. You just get an invoice and if you do not pay it before the date you are supposed to, they hire someone else.

smith

30th Nov 2015, 16:57

GBP38,400 for a type rating is disgusting. It is far too low. I would willingly sell my house and all its contents to get a type rating on the easy bus.

Count of Monte Bisto

30th Nov 2015, 22:35

Folks, I have worked at easyJet for many years and am now a fairly senior pilot in the system. Before you all start ranting at me, I am not a manager and have no part in the recruitment process. In order to understand what is going on here, you have to have an appreciation of the environment easyJet operates in. We are in a vicious battle with Vueling, Ryanair, Norwegian, Monarch and increasingly with the legacy carriers who are all upping their game. Ryanair in particular are buying aircraft at a staggering rate and are increasingly placing them in direct competition against us. All these companies have very low cost bases and virtually none have the encumbrance of Trade Unions to deal with. In stark contrast we, mercifully, are very unionised, but are constantly looking for ways to save money to keep us in number one or two positions at most of our airports. Crew costs are a huge factor for us and if easyJet had its way, we would be just like Ryanair. It is possibly no coincidence that a good number of the pilots we have just recruited have come from there but are now very glad to be at easyJet. Much to the annoyance of our big corporate shareholders, we are not having a special dividend this year, and our share price has dropped markedly since our results came out, largely due to fears about our ability to compete against Ryanair. Therefore, there is enormous pressure to battle over every penny and nowhere is that more evident than initial training costs. Put simply, we need to keep the costs down to compete. What is being offered is not p2f, and it is incredibly foolish to say it is. The type rating cost is frankly not reflective of the true cost, but in reality much more associated with keeping the cost of your salary down. So, love it or hate it, that is the way it is. Right now there are few better or safer places to work other than a national carrier. Presumably if you could get a job at one of those you would not be here on PPRuNe having this discussion, so it sounds like this is as good as it going to get. Therefore my encouragement to you is to decide now if you really want to be part of this.

Given there are literally thousands of low-housed pilots without jobs, if you are a cadet and have a place with easyJet lined up, you are unbelievably fortunate and need to just thank God for the opportunity you have been given. If you are an experienced pilot, and already hate easyJet because of the type rating costs, then you are simply going to work for the wrong company. Do both us and yourselves a huge favour and go somewhere else where you will be more appreciated. If, however, you can see your way to just accepting the harsh economics of our world, then come and join us with a great attitude and a willingness to learn. It is a great place to be overall, with new aircraft, interesting routes, good training, and excellent safety culture and some great colleagues to work with. It is not perfect, but if you choose to have a positive attitude you can have a great time.

Plastic787

30th Nov 2015, 22:41

In a vicious battle with Monarch? I have to confess that one made me chuckle.

I'd hazard a guess the real reason the share price has dropped dramatically since the results came out is the little matter of Jihadis mowing down 130 people in a major western city (Europe and the World's most visited city no less) coupled with same Jihadis blowing a Russian A321 out of the sky departing one of the company's profitable destinations.

That kind of stuff has the ability to put a dampener on all airline stocks, as it has. Easyjet is not in isolation in having its share price drop, just look at IAG.

Airline competes with another airline shocker!! I suppose the fact that easyJet posted a £650 Million+ profit competing against Ryanair (and yet increased its profits from last year in the face of the increased competition, converse to your argument) means it can plead poverty.

BA this year comfortably outperformed easyJet's profit despite carrying less passengers and burning more fuel. This is an airline that fully funds not only new type ratings but fully funds conversions onto new fleets. Food for thought.

Just so you know I'm not anti easyJet. Training: Top notch, Colleagues: ditto, Variety: Can't be beaten on short haul, Job security: Unparalleled. But the recruitment processes I would not put in the same category and other people have used the words throughout this thread. I will decline to do so although you can maybe guess my opinion.

Sick

30th Nov 2015, 23:05

If you're not a manager, you're sure as hell angling to become one.

ezy320

1st Dec 2015, 00:25

Senior pilots get 15% pay uplift loyality bonus after their 10th year, up to 15% in training positions, pensions, free shares + BAYE/SAYE, fixed pattern.
Some of the new pilots would just dream of :zzz::zzz::zzz:
:D:D

Seems that they just don´t care about the new T&C for new entrants or just
are happy to "live in the expense of the others. If you don´t like it, there is the door. Or be show gratitude and thank God (?) for this fortunate positions.
Sorry, you must be kidding or are being a bit over-sarcastic here.

:ok::ok::ok:

Very nice attitude indeed mate :D:D:D

Thad Jarvis

1st Dec 2015, 07:18

Every 'cadet' that walks through the door has access to the same career progression and contracts that their legacy colleagues had. It just takes a little longer to achieve. That was a key part of the original strategy employed by the union. No matter what way you dress it up £42k isn't a bad start to flying with 200hrs experience. It increases every year despite the rumours because it was designed that way. No change in rank results in less salary even if you end up part-time in the process for a while. The number of days off in the roster is also the very same as the fixed pattern.
Many will go to BA .. Of course .. That's a no brainer if you plan to fly for the next 30+ years. Good luck to them. Easyjet it what it is. Like it or leave is the mantra.

Superpilot

1st Dec 2015, 07:57

It just takes a little longer to achieve.

Too right, and in the face of so many other opportunities who wants to be slaving around waiting that long? Delaying the opportunity for your cadets to become real pilots with real terms and conditions is simply another way to get them to accept being paid a lower salary over a longer period of time. The EZY machine knows full well that if anyone leaves (I would say 33-50% do) then the sausage factory known as CTC will be there to help out. My airline (a UK charter) has hired close to 20 ex EZY Flexicrew over the last 12 months and will no doubt hire many more next year. All on a full time contract, with a salary grossing them in the region of £70k in year one. And we've seen more troubled times than EZY. Corporate greed and exploitation of the dreams and ambitions of youngsters, that's what EasyJet is all about.

Binder

1st Dec 2015, 08:27

Plastic,

During the recent full year results presentation a city analyst asked the CEO directly if easy would have enough pilots for next year. She replied that the airline would and the head of flight ops ( in the audience ) agreed as well.

Interesting Summer if they have got it wrong......

seen_the_box

1st Dec 2015, 09:50

My airline (a UK charter) has hired close to 20 ex EZY Flexicrew over the last 12 months and will no doubt hire many more next year. All on a full time contract, with a salary grossing them in the region of £70k in year one. And we've seen more troubled times than EZY. Corporate greed and exploitation of the dreams and ambitions of youngsters, that's what EasyJet is all about

Anywhere near the bottom of the seniority list (bottom 80 or so) in that particular UK charter is a very uncomfortable place to be. In the last 'troubled times', the number of forced base moves, demotions, fleet changes etc. was staggering. People who'd been captains for the best part of a decade didn't have the seniority to avoid demotion in base.

Worth remembering too that significant numbers of the cadets hired back in 2008/9 were given six month contracts, laid off for the winter, then brought back the next summer on a new short term contract, then laid off for the winter again, then finally hired on a permanent contract on pay point one, having accrued no continuous service benefits. Then they were almost immediately told that they may well be at risk of redundancy at the end of the summer (which they were).

No airline holds a monopoly on 'corporate greed and exploitation'.

EpsilonVaz

1st Dec 2015, 10:24

[Senior pilots get 15% pay uplift loyality bonus after their 10th year, up to 15% in training positions, pensions, free shares + BAYE/SAYE, fixed pattern.
Some of the new pilots would just dream of :zzz::zzz::zzz:
:D:D

Seems that they just don´t care about the new T&C for new entrants or just
are happy to "live in the expense of the others. If you don´t like it, there is the door. Or be show gratitude and thank God (?) for this fortunate positions.
Sorry, you must be kidding or are being a bit over-sarcastic here.

:ok::ok::ok:

Very nice attitude indeed mate :D:D:D

ezy320, I think you may have missed a few years of fighting for NE contracts. It was a major issue that the current workforce made sacrifices to reach a clear compromise to have a proper career path for new joiners. All those things you list at the top aren't dreams, they're achievable for any new joiner in their future career with easyJet if they work hard.

I see you're LGW based, feel free to drop me a PM, I'll happily meet up for a coffee and we can have a chat.

JaxofMarlow

1st Dec 2015, 15:13

Good post Plastic787. Exactly why this thread should be Easyjet Cadet recruitment. Experienced pilots are not inclined to take a second officer position when within touching distance of a LHS. But then, these are not the guys/girls Ej want.

Superpilot

1st Dec 2015, 15:19

seen_the_box

Agree with the job security element of said charter airline. Not arguing that. Simply making the point that a company that offers less job security and makes much less profit is hiring and paying pilots properly from day one.

Thad Jarvis

1st Dec 2015, 18:35

The SO contract is just a pay grade. They wear the same inform as everyone else and are refferred to as FO's. It only lasts 12 months anyway. When you're on it, you're an employee and more importantly can jump into the command process (which you can't do as a contractor) that is where (in theory) you can progress above the less experienced guys. EasyJet don't value turboprop guys. They never have. Sad but true. If I went to BA tomorrow theyd call me an FO on a 320 despite having 15 years bus P1 time. Not SFO, but FO. It's their train set.
I suggest if you can't take the concept of having a pay grade called SO then easyJet isn't the place for you anyway because there are plenty of more pressing issues to be worrying about on the inside. That's not a dig but if that really bothers you then the rest will ruin your happiness. Besides you could go to Flybe and earn 2/3 of the money trucking around on the q4 career killer as an FO ...but where will that get you ultimately?
Hiring FO' (or SO's) isn't causing any loss of sleep in the hangar. It's captains they are more concerned about although pretend that's in hand. When you all stop applying they'll start taking notice...and so the laws of demand and supply roll on.

ezy320

1st Dec 2015, 20:29

EZY has great people to work with, I totally agree on this point. The point I am making is that we can easily afford not having contractors, but offer permanent positions from the start to everyone who fits in our company with the same T&C. The recruitment should attract the very best candidates from variety of backgrounds rather than just relying one pool of people. With this policy eJ had made a quite good workforce in the past or not?

shitzig

1st Dec 2015, 23:37

I can see in Easyjet's jobs page, some captains vacancies. (Funded type rating)
Does this means Easy is funding it or are the candidates funding it?
Thank you.

Cuillin Hills

3rd Dec 2015, 08:02

If easyJet are short of captains, they should start by not wasting people's time in the recruitment process.

I found the process to be frustrating, in that the communication was utterly abysmal, with the recruitment team losing paperwork at important moments and not keeping written promises about timelines.

Not a good advert for future treatment, my interest stalled early on. In fact, a poor show all round. Investors and management take note: they're getting things very badly wrong indeed.

In my recent experience, Narrow Runway, you could make the same comment for most airlines recruiting at the moment. I have found airline HR departments, in both the UK and abroad, to be pretty dreadful.

It seems to be the way the airline world is going - crying out for applicants and qualified, experienced staff but treating them with disdain and being incredibly inefficient.

I totally agree with you.

The Crew

3rd Dec 2015, 23:04

I found the easy way to be anything but. Short notice period for assessment days, completely in ignorance that rosters are published monthly, and more than likely, il'll be at work the days they have assessment. If contact you seem to receive a semi personal " hope this email finds youwell" to then completly revert be a cut n paste response, not being specific to my request.

Like the guys above , ill withdraw my application as emails speak louder than words :p

EpsilonVaz

3rd Dec 2015, 23:19

You're right, we should spend £50k on employing some extra HR personnel so we can pander to the sensitivities of potential pilots.

Count of Monte Bisto

3rd Dec 2015, 23:44

You will not find me defending easyJet's pilot recruitment team as they have made some shocking errors. However, I have to say that if you do not like the deal on offer then go somewhere else. There is no one with a gun at your head making you join easyJet and if you think you can get a better job somewhere else then good luck to you. Just do not come here and whine that no one told you what deal you were on because it is crystal clear to you when you sign the contract. Sorry to seem so harsh, but you need to hear it like it is, rather than how you wish it was.

Narrow Runway

4th Dec 2015, 06:33

Epsilon Vaz,

They don't need to imply anyone to pander to potential pilots. What they do need to do is to stop saying things that they cannot deliver on. For instance: We will contact you within 7 days with a result of your sim. My result took nearly a month and it was a very successful sim.

Like another poster said, we live in the real world.

No hard feelings to anyone, the cost could be nothing, just don't over promise and under deliver.

easyJet are undoubtedly a good employer, but they tried their level best to hide that at times during the recent captain recruitment drive.

Safe flying.

Coffin Corner

4th Dec 2015, 08:06

Count Of Monte Bisto are you not reading what these people are saying? They didn't say they don't like the deal on offer, they said the recruitment process is shocking. And to be honest if Easyjet want pilots (which they clearly do) then they should treat people a little bit better than the contempt they're showing at present and stick to what they say they'll do. After all these aren't cadets they're dealing with, they're experienced pilots who don't actually need the job, they just want the job, spot the difference.

Count of Monte Bisto

4th Dec 2015, 11:47

As I have said, the pilot recruitment process at easyJet leaves a great deal to be desired. Plastic787 has correctly alluded to the 40 or so guys in 2013 who were shamefully treated by being offered jobs and then had the job offers rescinded. There should have been serious disciplinary action as it was a great embarrassment to us as a company and great hurt to those involved, but that sadly did not happen. So yes, it may indeed be true that some of you have received e-mails that are incorrect, unhelpful or inaccurate - I am not directly involved in that, so do not know what is true and what is not. All I can say however, is that despite some of the rubbish written on here by people who know virtually nothing about easyJet other than that their aircraft are orange, it is a good place to be. Once you escape the recruitment process, you start to meet real people - i.e. the pilots and cabin crew you will actually work with. They are a great bunch and make it all worthwhile. And there is a route from being the lowest cadet earning a pittance to the most senior Training Captain earning a good salary. The exact salary I earn right now is still available to anyone who joins today. There is no doubt that, like all airlines, there are significant downward pressures on terms and conditions, but right now that is where we are. EasyJet is not a perfect company but it is pretty good. It is up to you if you want to be here - but most people who come here enjoy it.

Count of Monte Bisto

5th Dec 2015, 13:20

And your solution to it is? Do you think there is a thing that pilots can do other than be unionised? And please do not say that pilots should refuse to join and 'that would show them'. The next pilots on the list would just say 'thank you very much' and taken an even worse deal. Unions are what protect easyJet (unlike Ryanair) and that is why we need to remain that way. The mere fact that we have so many pilots turning up at our door looking to join us means that in the supply and demand stakes we are already on a loser. Way more people want to work for us than we have jobs to give out. The sad truth is that if the price of a type rating doubled today there would still be countless young people turning up with their parents' money to join us. That is what drives down terms and conditions - simple economics.

Just out of interest, we have just had our annual pay offer for the UK contract - 2% (way above inflation) plus we have also been given £3k worth of shares and a 4.6% one-off payment for our performance bonus (FOs got more for some strange reason). Bearing in mind, all captains in the UK earn more than £100k a year, that seems good news to me. It is hardly a disaster, but listening to some of you on here it clearly would be. As I have said, if you could get a better job then I am sure you would not be wasting your time on here, but given that easyJet is clearly on your radars then it is not all bad - I am certainly managing to cope with the 'disappointments' of my pay this year. It is undoubtedly true that our senior managers and directors will be substantially better off and some will make millions. I am a simple soul, however, and am happy just to take the 'trickle-down' effect. Sure we are making our shareholders (which most pilots are) a pile of money, but we are also doing pretty well ourselves. Go to the public sector in the UK and ask them what sort of pay rise they got. I suspect if you went to any of the majors you would find they did not get that either. So talk of employees subsidising bottom lines is really not accurate. There is a route for every single pilot at easyJet to become a senior Training Captain - and whilst accepting the initial deal is not great, it is pretty good at the top end. There are worse fates to befall you than that.

JosuaNkomo

6th Dec 2015, 15:14

"Anyone joining will likely have to do 12 months+ flexi, 12 months+ NEC and have to wait two years minimum from joining an EZY contract before they're ellegible for any bonus or performance share award. The likelihood is that a lot of us are getting nothing, despite having worked for several years."

We want the world and we want it now. The fact is you get rewarded for time served. Get over it or move on.

six-sixty

6th Dec 2015, 18:27

We want the world and we want it now

Sad to see the Stockholm Syndrome taken root so much here that a permanent contract for experienced professionals with "some" element of job security and not paying over the odds for training is now seen by some as wanting "the world".

Greedy us pilots aren't we :ugh:

HeartyMeatballs

6th Dec 2015, 20:52

Josua - nothing like that mate. Just putting a realistic slant on things before anyone things for one moment that we're all going to benefit from what COMB mentions. The fact is that many of us aren't, and none who join will receive for many years to come.

We want it all and we want it now? This is after one or more years on zero hour contracts, one year fixed salary working 5-2 with no meaningful leave. A bonus or some shares would be lovely.

JosuaNkomo

6th Dec 2015, 21:57

HMB.

I don't mean to be rude but as the count says there are a stream of low hour wannabes who are willing to accept a job at the expense of initial contractual terms. What is changing is the length of time people are staying on these initial contracts.

Those of us who have been with the company for years are (on uk contract) remunerated well. We deserve to be having operated through the growing pains of the company. Carmen,Cor,EMA,MAD to mention a few.

The industry has changed over the last 10 years or so and that change has been driven by the willingness of the new joiner to accept terms and conditions that previous joiners luckily did not have to contemplate.

There also seems to be a never ending source of people who are willing to join. Wish you well

Thad Jarvis

6th Dec 2015, 22:45

If there are flexis doing more than a year they should be contacting the Company Council because that was the agreement. If the SO's are doing 5/2 they should be doing the same because their contract has the same number of days off as the fixed pattern roster 🙄

Count of Monte Bisto

7th Dec 2015, 14:35

Hearty Meatballs - regarding working into days off, many people have never done it. I am in my 12th year at easyJet and have done it twice - both of which were in the same month last summer. Under the new agreement, no pilot will work into his day off unless the problem arises on the last sector down route and he wants to get home. Ultimately the Company have done their calculations and think they can cope with the fall-out of this choice. To me it seems shortsighted but we will soon find out next summer if they have made the right call. In the meantime, it really is a non-issue for the vast majority of people in terms of any real effect on their pay - it just means they will not work into their day off as a favour to the Company. Despite any protestations to the contrary there is a clear route from the lowest FO to the the most senior Training Captain at easyJet, and as I have said many times to all those out there who are looking at joining us - check your contract and if you do not like it I hope you manage a better job somewhere else.

GEKO

7th Dec 2015, 19:14

Read again NLP and ezy320 post, they underline very well the issue for FOs on UK NEC contract, very poor, for cadets or DEFOs.
Instead of finding understanding and support from their fellow Captains, they found blame and humiliation.

The entire problem come from one and only thing: SELFISH.
I have a good contract, who cares about the other.

I never heard skippers from other airlines promoting that much their pay and benefits. By now, the entire world must know that an ezy cpt is on 100k salary..
Maybe to hide those poor FOs contracts or maybe to seek reassurance that it is the best deal in town?? After all, hundred of first officers, even those close to command :confused: are leaving for British Airways. Might be a reason...

Closing our eyes or suffocating the voice of our first officers such as NLP or ezy320 will only deteriorate the situation.
Senior captains are the mentors that should be protecting the profession, not the cadet...

Just out of interest, we have just had our annual pay offer for the UK contract - 2% (way above inflation) plus we have also been given £3k worth of shares and a 4.6% one-off payment for our performance bonus (FOs got more for some strange reason).

self explanatory.

Count of Monte Bisto

7th Dec 2015, 23:29

Geko - what absolute and utter cobblers. The whole problem is that there are not 'hundred of first officers, even those close to command' leaving for British Airways. If there were, then we would have a much better deal. We have many first officers who are actively choosing to stay at easyJet despite it being a boom time recruitment spree at BA - that actually makes our pay claims harder. Also, you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes or what discussions senior captains have with our management. To suggest that our FOs find 'blame and humiliation' from captains is just fantasy. I am a massive union supporter (BALPA in the case of the UK-based pilots). As any UK employees will be aware, the freedom to move in the UK is significantly less than that on the continent. Nonetheless, I am totally supportive of any moves to sort out contracts. There are a number of aspects to new entrant contracts that I do not like, but unless the union wants to fight the case there is not a whole lot that can be done. I do, however, stand by my statement that there is no barrier to any new pilot in terms of where they can end up.

Once again, it is critical for pilots who want to join easyJet to do so with an understanding over what they are getting into. Overall BA is a better deal, but presumably if they were offering you a job you would not be wasting your time here.

JosuaNkomo

8th Dec 2015, 08:01

Gecko my Saurian friend. What you need to appreciate is that all new joiners in all companies are disadvantaged. In BA the whole concept of date of joining seniority and bidline for trips could be viewed as discriminatory. If you are in easy and hate it be the master of your own destiny and leave.

Plastic787

8th Dec 2015, 08:22

COMB you may well find that there ARE potentially in the hundreds about to leave, the start dates have only just started to be issued by BA. Make no mistake there's a storm coming, virtually every F/O you speak to on the line either has an application in or is at some stage of the BA process..

(They are offering me a job and I'm still wasting my time here, I don't know what says about how I spend my life! ;) )

PS Believe it or not there are also captains (plural) contacting me asking for feedback on the BA recruitment process...

highfive

8th Dec 2015, 10:57

The ad i saw for easy DEC was circa £114000 with a basic of £98k. UK base obviously.

The last interviews were completed on the 19 th Nov. Nothing else for this year , unless you know better ?

I believe they deserve every pound and penny they earn.

Lawro

8th Dec 2015, 15:28

Geko , Captains are on better contracts than SFO's who are on better contracts than FO's etc , that's the way it is & that's the way you'll expect it when you're a Captain.

You'll find Captains at Easy very supportive of a structure regarding FO progression although most will be ignorant to how it works. The main reason for this is the Cadets themselves clambering to take ever decreasing terms & conditions even before they get to easyjet & what you are experiencing is the degradation in everybody's future because you & many others wanted to pay to get to the front of the queue .

It won't be long until Captains pay & conditions are offered to the masses at reduced levels & they'll get snapped up by guys ever more desperate to get ahead & if you don't take it the next guy will.

Each new base that opens is done so on reduced conditions yet they fill the places , not usually with current Captains but with CTC clones , the blame does not fall at the feet of those Captains who are ever more conspicuous on their old contracts , maybe you need to look at yourselves to see where things are going wrong !

Count of Monte Bisto

8th Dec 2015, 22:23

Plastic787 - my hearty congratulations that you have been offered a job at BA, and may I genuinely encourage you to accept such a great opportunity. There may or may not be hundreds of pilots about to leave easyJet - I frankly hope you are right, as it puts pressure on terms and conditions which can only be good news for those who do not leave. As others have pointed out, however, it does not matter how many people leave - they will primarily be replaced by young lads with their parents' money who will gladly accept no salary whatsoever for a couple of years if that is what the deal was. Sure, they will bleat and whine about it, but they will still take the deal - and that is where the problem lies. In the all-important supply and demand statistics, there are way more people willing to work for easyJet than they have jobs to give out - that means low salaries for inexperienced First Officers, which they will just lap up. It is a very harsh and depressing assessment, but pretty accurate nonetheless.

ezy320

9th Dec 2015, 02:20

In the past easyJet had been always a DEC airline & BALPA playing a self-interest game maintaining the status-quo on expense of our fellow colleagues.
CTC is a perverted way of pilot´s employment and should had never started from the beginning. BA is happy to take our highly motivated and trained FO/CPTs just to be replaced by cheaper cadets from the sausage factory. It does not take a crystal ball to imagine what is going to happen: Look at new trainer contracts, new bases T&C ....

Let me quote Niemoller:

"
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

I think it´s just a matter of time, until reality is spread around the flight schools. It is likely that at the end we will suffer a shortage of qualified people (see US market). Luckily the airline offering the most decent T&C will not face the same problem. In the long-term it does pay off to treat people with some decency.

JosuaNkomo

9th Dec 2015, 05:46

When EasyJet and ryanair reach critical mass and there is no expansion planned there will be no more requirement for cheap replacements. By that time the new joiners will be time barred on poor contracts for many many years. There will be very desperate unemployed or self improvers willing to fill the limited places available.

The wannabes are responsible.

NLP

9th Dec 2015, 10:42

Actually if there are any people to blame apart from the guys who create these contracts, its the old pilots. They were already in the union and had the chance to fight it. But since most of the older pilots are captain or SFO they don't care about FO's.

Good example is easyJet Lisbon base. After the industrial actions the contracts improved significantly for captains and SFO's. Guess what has changed for SO's and FO's? Nothing. Because there weren't any at the time.

In_The_Deen

9th Dec 2015, 10:57

CMB: The reason FO's got double is because when creating the NEC, eJ cut out all loyalty pay for FO's, thus making the entire bonus performance related.

The FO's got 9.2% (pro-rated) whereas an eJ captain with 2-4 years got 9.6% including loyalty pay, 5-9 years got 14.6% and 10 years or over got 19.6%!

The FO's didn't get more...quite the opposite in fact. I hope this helps. :)

easy

9th Dec 2015, 18:11

Not quite sure why you include the loyalty payment with the profit share bonus?

Count of Monte Bisto

9th Dec 2015, 18:43

In_The_Deen - that is not really an accurate statement of affairs, although I wish it was. This is smoke and mirrors at its finest! The figures you refer to add on 'loyalty bonus' for captains, which as you know is nothing to do with a 'bonus' but is a replacement for incremental pay that other airlines pay and has been in existence since the very beginning of easyJet.

For those not familiar with what is being discussed here, easyJet do not pay incremental pay and you get more money on promotion, except if you are a new joiner as an FO - in which case your salary goes up as you reach the first few 'gates' (Second Officer - First Officer - Senior First Officer). As the NEC (New Entrant Contract) was negotiated some years ago, part of the deal was that First Officers no longer received a 'loyalty bonus' but instead advanced up in salary terms by reaching certain gates. Captains, however, maintained their incremental pay which was incorrectly known as a 'loyalty bonus'. This loyalty bonus gives 5% on basic to Captains after 2 years, 10% after 5 years and 15% after 10 years - paid each year on the anniversary of joining the Company. The 'performance bonus' being incorrectly associated with the incorrectly-named 'loyalty bonus' is a more recent gift to the employees over and above the other deals, whereby if the company is successful each year you get a percentage of basic onto your salary (or in your pension fund if you prefer). For First Officers it was pro-rata 9.2% and the Captains got 4.6%.

The salary package is quite complex. To summarise for those interested in such matters, a UK-based captain working for easyJet will be paid as follows (after the payment of this year's 2% pay rise):

1. £98,855 Basic.
2. £31.26 per 'sector' flown (I work on 430 a year) - roughly £13,440.
3. 5%, 10% or 15% on basic paid each year after 2, 5 and 10 years' service respectively - known as a 'loyalty bonus'.
4. Up to a 5% on basic bonus depending on company performance - this year it was 4.6%.
5. 7% of basic paid by easyJet into your pension pot.
6. In addition you can put up to £150 per month into one share scheme which is 'buy one get one free' and a further £350 into another share scheme per month which comes out after 3 years and has historically generated thousands in tax free profits.
7. Furthermore, for each of the last few years pilots have received two weeks' salary in shares limited to £3,000 (which for Captains is always the limiting value).
8. Finally, given that most pilots are shareholders, there have been a number of dividends and special dividends, although there is not one this year. For each of the last two years I got around £2,000 net.
9. If you are a Trainer you get 12.5% for a Line Trainer, 15% for TRI, 17.5% for TRE (all pensionable and added to basic for your 'loyalty bonus'). There are around 170 or more Training Captains at easyJet so the opportunities are there if you want to go for it.

The key thing about all of the above is that it is available to every single First Officer at easyJet on promotion to Captain. Many CTC cadets are captains after 5 years, so they may start on £1000 a month, but they certainly do not stay that way for long. No doubt we all consider ourselves worth more, but outside of a national carrier I am struggling to think where you will get that deal. You may not think it is great, but it is hardly a financial catastrophe. It is vital you come here knowing what it is you are signing up to - that is it to the best of my knowledge. I hope that helps.

ezy320

9th Dec 2015, 19:39

As you rightly say, these reflect only figures on the UK contract, otherwise we would not have attracted all the guys from ex-Monarch. Different story for our new bases in LIS, OPO, BCN, & AMS. Also VCE and NAP different rostering policy as DEC.
:ok::ok::ok::ok:

The Crew

10th Dec 2015, 05:56

Monte Bisto , by far the best post on EZ uk TnCs . Period.

Why would anyone not go to EZ ? Even if you go BA and manage a conmand in 5 yrs still willbe £30-40k short of EZ. .

Enough said .

Merc_the

10th Dec 2015, 07:22

But after 5 years at EZY you'll be close to burning out and seriously contemplating part time. Full time is unsustainable (if you want a life away from flying) so expect to take at least 25% off the Count's figures.

Plastic787

10th Dec 2015, 07:56

Why would anyone not go to EZ ? Even if you go BA and manage a conmand in 5 yrs still willbe £30-40k short of EZ. .

Because there's more to life than money and those that do spend their entire life chasing it at the expense of lifestyle may just find they have quite a few regrets at the end of their life.

easyJet is a great company no doubt but if you're based at LGW it's very, very difficult to make the case that it's sustainable over a career (as the poster above has alluded to).

ezy320

10th Dec 2015, 11:00

Because you´ll not enjoy the wealth you have accumulated during these years due to damaging health effects. Oh yes, if you don´t like it here just leave we have plenty of others. Supply and Demand. Or maybe you are not suitable for this job? Please go and quit.

Or just become a trainer: Sim is less tiring and rewarding than being frequently exposed on the line :D:D:D

EpsilonVaz

10th Dec 2015, 11:13

Yes it isn't all about money, but bear in mind that easyJet LGW does not mean bad lifestyle.

Home most nights.
Car park (potentially) 5-10 minutes from the crew room (good luck doing that in LHR).
More money earlier on in your career (may equal better lifestyle for you and your young family, rather than when you're 65).
If the lifestyle you want is longhaul, then ezy isn't for you, obviously. However I'm not sure shorthaul BA is (at the moment) any better than ezy LGW.

I'm not saying it's all roses, it is hard work, and there are issues to be resolved (ie. sustainable career - which BALPA is working on), but for me personally, I wouldn't make the jump to BA.

blackred1443

10th Dec 2015, 11:23

I thought fatigue was an industry issue as opposed to ezy having exclusive rights? From those I speak to further round the M25 its not just me at EZY that is suffering.

I'm 10 years in, well under 40, LGW based, and not part time so I don't know where the 5 year figure with burn out was pulled from. I've under 700 hours done this year. Can't remember the last time I broke 750. This summer did take it out of me though towards the end. Definitely could not do this to 65. My union though are very much on the case and the next few months could be very interesting for us all.

Have we a fatigue issue ? Right now, yes.

An attempt to provide a little balance. I'm far from a Orange clone but here goes. We have a few issues though, ridiculous roster instability, a lack of control over the work we do and no quality filter in roster production.

The lack of control is part of the dispute and we will have a bid system. The fatigue levels within the roster are being dealt with in a similar fashion. The crazy roster changes may well be rectified by fixing the two mentioned above.

Starting salary within ezy as a second officer is just over £40k. Moan all you want but as a 20 something cadet if you can't live on that I think you've borrowed too much and probably need to review. Grow up, basically.

If you want to retire with lots of type ratings on you licence then I'd suggest ezy isn't for you. If you want a quick route to £120k and be able to see your kids grow up then we are an option. I've made embarrassing amounts of money from the share schemes. I've a house I could never afford without my time in ezy. I can afford to go part time very soon.

Will BA be what it is now in 10 years time, I doubt it. Was it better 10 years ago, I'm told yes. Were T & Cs better in ezy ten ago ? No. I think we are still on an upward curve, all things considered. The curve is flattening though.

I have been tempted by BA previously but for various reason that ship has sailed. I'm not excited by type rating, I don't want to do days and days away with strangers, I like my command. Is BA better with regards to T&Cs ? Of course it is. I'd be a numpty to say no. The gap is closing though I believe. It has to. What I do now in ezy, you will do tomorrow in BA.

We have our faults in ezy, most definitely we do. Moves are afoot though to fix them. Rectify what I mentioned was wrong earlier and I can cope without the type ratings. To be perfectly honest, if I want to go business class to NY then i'll buy the ticket.

PS In terms of options, we have a training department that is bigger than most airlines. We have bases in most Western European. Some of the contracts aren't great, granted. Most of those contracts will get improved through union involvement. Those joining BA from EZY, I wish you all the best. Great move if it works for you. The more that leave can only be a good thing for those left behind.

Lawro

10th Dec 2015, 11:25

Low hour , high pay airline jobs do not exist anymore . If any pop up , they won't be around long.

Easy is far from perfect but does provide some security & many enjoy it , the conditions aren't generally bad.

BA , a very good airline to work for although don't be under the illusion you're going to be sitting around drinking cocktails !! It's the same job & many at BA will tell you so.

All airlines are now looking to get more & more productivity from their staff & like it or not , many of them including BA look at Easyjet as a template.

It is the future . Management have no respect for pilots anymore , it's all about cost !

blackred1443

10th Dec 2015, 11:49

COMB I believe forgot to add our Flexi Benefits scheme. The company gives us cash in an account to spend as you wish. You must spend it though you can't withdraw it as hard cash. I use mine for LOL insurance.

Staff travel is crap so I usually go with another carrier. Crew food is dire but a work in progress for BALPA. We are a very successful company so expectations are strong amongst Union members. Get the bid system in, sort out the rosters and I'm as happy as a pig in .......

Sciolistes

10th Dec 2015, 12:22

It will be interesting how the bid system will work. We went to a strict non-rotational seniority based bidding system at my narrow body short-medium haul company and the lifestyle for the majority of the crew has become virtually unbearable with maximum 8 off in 28 days, alternating night and day flights and single days off. Fatigue reports through the roof and getting worse because so many are now leaving. It had been a disaster for all but the senior 10%. The irony is now that we are so short of crew as a result, even they are struggling to make their bids work.

Prior to the bidding system, the roster was great. Usually 12-14 days off and 850hrs/year.

Anyway, I have question about Porto and Lisbon DEC. Is it possible to get back to the UK regularly. Is jump seat travel possible?

blackred1443

10th Dec 2015, 12:25

The bid system will work within the current fixed pattern so there should be no change to days off as I understand it. I would imagine it will be earlies/lates, long / short sectors, night stops / no night stops etc etc.

ezy320

10th Dec 2015, 12:27

You might apply for commuter travel, but you´ll nee to prove UK domicile. Commuting will be very difficult tough, because you don´t have a fix roster pattern (which is great for commuters). LGW base would suit you much better I would expect.

blackred1443

10th Dec 2015, 12:31

Anyone join EZY full time with the intention of commuting needs their head read.

SpGo

10th Dec 2015, 12:44

Sciolistes, in Lis/Opo you will have 11 days off a month. Most of the time they come in pairs, occasionally you will have three in a row and exceptionally a single day off. In short: forget commuting.

Plastic787

10th Dec 2015, 13:10

Starting salary within ezy as a second officer is just over £40k. Moan all you want but as a 20 something cadet if you can't live on that I think you've borrowed too much and probably need to review. Grow up, basically.

And there lies the problem. You, like easyJet, have just assumed that an SO is going to be a twenty something cadet with no experience. There is currently no scope for appropriately positioning someone with more experience further up the scale as you and the company just assume everyone comes straight from CTC into the RHS. There are exceptions and they should be treated as such.

With my experience I would suggest that it is not too much to ask to go straight into an FO position at the very least. I know it's only a year in the greater scheme of things but that's still a long time and, coupled with the the fact that LH is part of the endgame, that's why I voted with my feet.

Sciolistes

10th Dec 2015, 13:39

Thanks blackred, ezy and SpGo.

LGW would be perfect but will need NTR DEC to become a reality there first!

UberPilot

10th Dec 2015, 13:49

And there lies the problem. You, like easyJet, have just assumed that an SO is going to be a twenty something cadet with no experience. There is currently no scope for appropriately positioning someone with more experience further up the scale as you and the company just assume everyone comes straight from CTC into the RHS. There are exceptions and they should be treated as such.

With my experience I would suggest that it is not too much to ask to go straight into an FO position at the very least. I know it's only a year in the greater scheme of things but that's still a long time and, coupled with the the fact that LH is part of the endgame, that's why I voted with my feet.

In most sectors experience is rewarded with a salary commensurate. So, if you move from Bank A to B or are promoted within the same company you are rewarded with a higher salary as you do a job that someone else can't, or hasn't got the requisite experience to. Sadly, in this situation a CTC cadet with 50 sectors training can fulfill the job of competent co-pilot just as well as you, thus you are not rewarded for your experience, however much you value it.

Any decision to join eJ must take this into account. You will, however, be able to enter the command process quite soon and then the 120k will be yours!

blackred1443

10th Dec 2015, 14:36

I'm not assuming anything Plastic 787. 80% of those I fly with are 20 something cadets. £42k is a reasonable salary. There is scope for DE FO, I've flown with them. The secret is to not blink first. Many moons ago when I was going through the selection I was offered a lower salary grade and said "no thanks". Six weeks later I'm offered an improved deal, "yes please". We even have DEC. The NEC was only ever for new entrants. Those with experience will be governed by the market. Decide what you're worth and don't accept less.

If a TRE leaves EZY to join BA he is joining on PP1. Where are the exceptions you crave ? If a partner leaves a law firm to join a competitor he wouldn't usually find himself starting as the 'tea boy'. I'm against seniority, can you guess!? It's BA's train set so either sign it or clear off.

Enjoy BA, great number in some ways.

trancada

10th Dec 2015, 15:54

They are looking for captains in Lisbon.

kick the tires

10th Dec 2015, 15:58

They are looking for captains in Lisbon.

They are always looking for Captains in LIS because the contract is crap!

Count of Monte Bisto

10th Dec 2015, 21:29

I agree with those saying money is not everything - but it is a significant factor for most people and you certainly need to know what the deal is. Regarding the European base salaries, they are so tax-dependant that I would be loathe to state them here. There is no doubt the Portuguese salaries are the worst by a long way, although I am told the Barcelona deal is not too exciting either. Nonetheless, once you have done your penance at those bases you can move around to the better deals if that is what you want.

I particularly recommend blackred1443's post as being balanced and accurate. We have crazy roster disruption in the summer that BA guys simply don't get - it is a disgrace but we are on it with the Union. I have, however, pretty-well accepted that for the rest of my career July and August will be write-offs and don't expect much to change there. Ultimately we employ less pilots than BA so disruption kills us in a way it does not with them. Overall, if you are young and get into BA it would be a brave man who turns it down, but if like me you want to be home every night then we have a great deal to recommend us. The 5/3/5/4 pattern is also a huge plus that BA cannot offer. If you are fortunate enough to have the choice then you are blessed indeed.

Cliff Secord

10th Dec 2015, 22:59

I'm a long haul pilot based in the far east. Being away isn't great. But I've done short haul too. And I'll tell you what, I can't remember it enough to say if it was worse. If you find a decent long haul outfit in the UK (either of the 2 :}) it is hard pushed to say whether 5 days of up at 0300 or back home at 0300 is worse than eastern seaboard and back, or Boston with the jet lag from the 24 hour slip then into 3 days off.

You know, to this day I still can't decide or get my head around it. And Ive been doing it a fair old wack. You sit down on the bed in a hotel in NY with 1.5 nights away from home and think "this isn't home" and feel lonely for a little bit. Yet, 1.5 nights on a short haul roster, or charter airline roster flying deep nights. Would I be more happy? Rested? Would I appreciate home after those 5 days work? I don't know.

I wish it were possible to try an Easy roster for a day. I'd probably be shell shocked being a fat long haul slob :} But then I would've have to do 4-5 days solid schlepping at O' whatever hundred before my days off, whereas 2 flights, home, albeit jet lagged, then days off? I don't know. I honestly don't know.

ezy320

10th Dec 2015, 23:22

We also do kind of long-flights such as Sharm el Sheik, Canary Island, Tel Aviv... And back! You´ll accumulate the same as going to NYC :zzz::zzz::zzz: But remember 2 TO and LDGs :O To be fair, no time crossings (yet) :D:D

Jet A1

12th Dec 2015, 20:56

UK regional base as a CP I've managed to just break 600 hours for the year...just. Full time contract. Key is to avoid LGW ! Love the fixed pattern and have only night stopped 3 nights all year, all for SIM.

Nil further

12th Dec 2015, 21:05

Couldn't agree more .UK regional base your laughing ,esp if you have young family .

Haven't night-stopped for years except sim , same money as the LGW boys and girls , buy yourself a castle for the same cash as a creepy Crawley flat .

If you need the sun every week or to become a TRE then prob not for you,but for mere mortals hard to beat.

As C Of Mb mentions the deal financially is pretty good and I've never had a fatigue ,sickness or command decision questioned, ever .... not because I'm some super hero (I'm not) .
Yes there are things that we could and should do better but overall the big Orange is not that bad a place to be .

Dupre

13th Dec 2015, 19:31

Captain Spam Can

13th Dec 2015, 22:37

Great thread, thanks everyone, especially Count Bisto for your informative input!

I have a few questions if anyone would like to respond. Talking about a LGW base (obviously not immediately, but when they hire there again)

1. When you talk about the roster changes, does that include changing your days off? Or are they set in stone?

2. Do FO get the same 5/3/5/4 as the captains, or a different scheme?

3. Can annual leave be taken as single days here and there, or is there a minimum chunk? Can you take 5 days leave and get a 12 day block including rostered days off?

4. Is there any chance to take a week of leave in August or thereabouts, or is that simply not possible?

5. What are the max hrs in a month and a year?

6. Can anyone send me an indicative month or two roster?

Thanks in advance!

1. Days off set in stone, in 7 years I have never had a phone call from easyjet after checkout I.e days off or after duty. They can only call you on duty.

2. No only SFO

3. Yes single days or blocks but you can't leave a single working day. That's on a fixed roster. Random rosters that new joiners are on you have guaranteed days off each month you can request but don't know how it works. Also on random for leave if you book one day off you get a day either side wrap around for free so 1 leave day equals three off, these wrap around days increase on the number of days taken off.

4. Depends, it's hard but the system is meant to work in that if you get leave in these months like Xmas they incure higher penalty points so the following year your down the list when you bid for leave and prob unlikely get it again until the following year after when in theory not getting good weeks that year your now up the list on low points and so on. So every other year you should get 'what you want' if you always need to bid for school holidays etc. Doesn't always work though.

5. 100 flying

6. No because the last 2 months I've had 20-30 hrs which isn't normal really. I tend to average around 700 hours a year.

The good....Best short/medium haul gig in town if your at a regional base and get onto a standard 'old Skool' contract after a few years, good pay same as my charter mates and a few hundred less than my BA chums when I was an FO, now a skipper so higher now, security, flying variety and good colleagues to fly with, thank you letters with a bottle champagne every Xmas and when you 'go the extra mile' like when a day has been challenging always nice to get back into the crew room to have a bottle of wine and a card from the base captain waiting there , free shares, Xmas bonus . Never been questioned when off sick (quite a few times) or fatigued (happened twice in 7 years).

The bad...no long haul if you don't want to be home every night, LGW hard work, new joiners contract for the first 2-3 years I don't agree with during record profits time. i find 4 sector days allot more fatigueing than extra long 2 sector days. Pension 7% from company isn't good enough it should be at least 12% in my eyes, Some people prefer 4 sectors. I couldn't be doing it full time past 55. Uniform quality EZY can be penny proud, pound foolish.

No matter what people say it's not BA := but it's not far off for many. BA offer a great overall package with the option to change fleets and control over rosters.

Time to command about 4-5 years (will change as we stop expanding and people are far off from retirement)

Pay Capt 100k basic plus loyalty bonus (10% each year paid on month of joining up until 10years then 15% which is great it's about 25K in one month before the tax man helps himself) plus sector pay . So 120k-130k

Pay SFO 60k basic plus loyalty and sector. 70-75k (up to 5 years loyalty pay is 5%)

Not sure about the new joiners pay for the first few years heard it's about 42k second officer no sector pay for a year then 52k First officer and sector pay and it's a few thousand hours for SFO....not 100% though.

The good, the bad and the ugly