Unserviceable seat

[Terry K Rumble]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Might I ask a brief question of you please.......

I recently flew back from Bangkok to Heathrow (with my favourite airline) however, when I took my seat I found that the cover from the headrest was hanging off and unsecurable, exposing all of the metal. The seat itself had collapsed, and I was sitting on the metal base plate and finally, and my TV didn't work!

I pointed out to the cabin staff the problem and after lots of apologies, the CSD came and looked at the situation and filled out a defect log herself, stating that it was wholly unacceptable, very sorry, no other seats blah but basically telling me that she would be writing a strong letter to Customer services about the problem on my behalf. And she did!

A couple of days ago I got a nice e mail apology and 5000 pts on my Avios card. When I spoke to my neighbour (also a hostess) she said, well that's OK but it's only worth about £30 Terry. (which kind od miffed me slightly!)

So, given that the cost of choosing (clearly the wrong) seat was £82 on top of the ticket price, I suggested to the airline that a sligtly better offer might be more appropriate....no joy.

When I further suggested that this wasn't the best way of looking after and executive club member, still no joy.

So, my question is this:

How bad does the seat have to be, coupled with no useable headrest along with no tele before an airline feels it worthy of some sort of sensible compensation ?

[easyflyer83]

Not entirely sure why she wrote a 'strong' letter to customer services. How would they know a seat was unserviceable? Generally it is up to the crew. or maybe the previous cabin crew in this case, to defect log any cabin defects

[Capot]

the CSD came and looked at the situation and filled out a defect log herselfshe would be writing a strong letter to Customer servicesSeems to me she did both.

But you, Sir, the OP, are amazingly tolerant! You had what seems to have been an unsafe seat, and certainly a very uncomfortable ride. It's worth a hell of a lot more than an emollient email and £30.

Personally, I would have refused to even sit in the seat, on safety grounds as well as comfort and contractual grounds, and let them sort out whether to offer an upgrade (the obvious choice if available) or offload, compensation, 4* hotac, a seat on their next available service (with upgrade if necessary) within 24 hours or a transfer to another carrier, the whole 9 yards.

So the answer to your question is that your seat seems to have been way over the threshold for proper compensation!

Airlines should NOT be allowed to get away with this kind of crap; the cabin staff should have offered all the above, not tried to fob you off. Above all, the aircraft should not have been given a CRS (ie released for service) with a seat in that condition, unless it was tagged as u/s and unfit for service. If they behave this way with visible defects, imagine what might go on with the others.

If you have the time and inclination, and do not get a positive and rapid response from the airline, consider writing with the facts to their regulatory authority. And there's no harm in naming them in this forum so long as the facts are clear and true. I know there's a clue in your post, but it's a bit obscure.

By the way I had exactly the same problem on BA BOM/LHR a fears years ago; I did refuse the seat, so the cabin crew promptly upgraded an ID90 staff traveller (fellow cabin crew) and gave me her economy seat! That's just BA's little way; I had no cause for complaint.

[Terry K Rumble]

The CSD filled in the defect details on an I Pad device and she said that the she would write a 'strong' letter/comments to customer services.
Your point about the previous crew reporting the defect is understandable but are they responsible for checking each seat post flight? If that is the case, then the previous crew clearly didn't do their job and maybe thats why the CSD felt so strongly about it.
Either way, it was a pretty unpleasant 13 hours to get home.

[skyhighfallguy]

on a US airline I was denied the last seat in first class because the seat was broken.

fine.

I got the last coach seat .


if your seat was truly broken, you would not have been allowed to sit in it.

and for many years there was no television on planes , so get over it.

[ExXB]

Typical,
I too was a Executive Gold member that gave up on them because of their crap customer service. Too thick to understand that their failure to right their wrongs cost them tens of thousands of £s in lost revenues.

Well I've retired now and no longer travel for business much. But I still never use that airline.

Pity for the crews as I almost always has great service on board. But their ground staff were nothing to write home about and their customer service team didn't have a clue.

Seems nothing has changed.

So my advice, escalate your claim to the CEO's office. Obviously he won't read it but someone in his offices will. Set out your complaint clearly and without (too much) emotion. Point out that if you had been offloaded it would have cost them €600, plus the cost of hotac and meals until your next flight. Most importantly tell them what you want to make you happy. Don't be subtle, they don't understand subtle. If you want £500 say you want £500, if you want a free upgrade on your next longhaul, say so.

I wouldn't bother going to the CAA as they don't seem able to deal with customer concerns. Look at you small claims court options instead.

[ExXB]

Should something similar happen again I suggest that you ask that the Captain to have a look and say if the seat is safe. From your description it wasn't.

If the seat is not safe then you are in a denied boarding situation. The airline is obliged to ask for a volunteer to give up their seat in exchange for compensation. Only if they cannot find a volunteer can they offload you, but you are entitled to €600 (long haul) compensation, hotac, meals, etc, and rerouting on the next available flight. And probably an apology, but good luck on that.

[highflyer40]

You say you spent £82 pre purchasing your seat, there is no seat charge of that amount on BA so the story starts to sound like sour grapes.. The seat may have been in a bad state but was still serviceable so.. Other than some avios thrown at you that is all you were entitled too, although I wouldn't except 5000 avios ( I got 15000 just for a broken TV ) so I would want at least 20000.

[Terry K Rumble]

HF40, try not to split hairs. the price for choosing the seat is approx £82 then - does that make you happy now? By the way, I never mentioned BA!

SHF - same goes for you, try not to make yourself look such a fool

It's NOT sour grapes and I am well aware that we didn't have TVs for many years either, but that has nothing to do with it?

As an ex military flyer, I am simply asking a perfectly reasonable question of the civilain airline industry and get stupid remarks like those. Certainly in the military world I wouldn't have accepted the seat, and if the radar wasn't working, I wouldn't have accepted the aircraft either (an E-3D 'aint a lot of good without it!)


Anyway, to those who gave me sensible advice, sincere thanks. I'll go away now and compile a letter

[highflyer40]

Well considering you stated Bangkok to Heathrow and that you paid for seating it has to be BA as Thai, Eva, and BA are the only direct carriers and the other two have free seat allocation so no need to "pay for a seat" so therefore it must have been BA for your story to make sense, BUT BA's most expensive seat is £75 but that is only for the upper deck on the 747 and in club world business class, which by the amount of avios you were given I know you were travelling in economy , as BA's starting point for any business class complaints is 10000 miles

[S.o.S.]

From a sensible, polite and clearly written question - how do we get such rude, snarky replies? Unacceptable.

[highflyer40]

Because it is just attention seeking, compensation seeking nonsense.

Do you really think they would put a passenger in a seat with only a metal headrest and sitting on a metal pan?

He says he paid a certain amount to allocate a seat but the amount in no way reflects anywhere near reality (economy 35 not 82 to select a seat) then asks why we assume Ba after all that when he even mentions about the way they would treat "an executive club" member.. BA's frequent flyer club.

[Terry K Rumble]

HF40
I know I'm going to regret this, but why such hostility?
Attention seeking? Are you just plain stupid or what? At my age I certainly don't need to seek any attention, far from it I can assure you.
It was a perfectly reasonable question. OK so I may have got the price wrong, but you have my word as to the accuracy of what I'm saying. The seat was a disgrace as pointed out by the CSD in her report. What would be the point of lying about it?
You really need to chill out, you'll give yourself a coronary the way you are going on, calm down!
I won't be posting again about this, I've written a letter and its winging its way now.
This isn't the response I expected from the civilian aviation world frankly

[ExXB]

Terry, I'd be interested in a follow up if/when you get a response.

[lomapaseo]

Had the same thing on my flight two weeks ago. decided That I didn't want to be off-loaded (no seat available) so only reported it after we landed. It never occurred to me to try and extort some money.

[ExXB]

Iomapaeso,

It is not necessarily you that would be offloaded. If Regulation 261 applies then the airline is required to seek a volunteer to give up their seat and only if they can't find one can you be involuntarily offloaded. If they find a volunteer you get nothing, other than the transport you paid for.

No one should be asked to travel in an unsafe seat.

[highflyer40]

Reg 261 does not apply to an uncomfortable seat! Everyone in economy would be after compensation then as every airlines economy seat is a chiropractors dream.

As long as the seat belt works and the seat is in the upright position then it is a safe seat.

The airlines obligation is to get you from A to B and nothing else. No food, drinks or entertainment are REQUIRED (ok depending on the length of the flight water might be a health and safety requirement)

[Capot]

As long as the seat belt works and the seat is in the upright position then it is a safe seat. Utter :mad:. From all your posts, but especially that, it's obvious you know nothing about maintenance and safety of public transport aircraft.

[ExXB]

Highflyer,
You are right Regulation 261 does not apply to an uncomfortable seat.

But we are not talking about uncomfortable, we are talking about unsafe. From the OP's description (allowing for poetic license) the seat still sounded unsafe. I admit I am not an expert which is why I suggested that the PIC be the one who determine if the seat was safe for transport.

If it was unsafe the airline should not have allowed the passenger to travel in it. If the airline has to deny boarding to a passenger because one of their seats are unsafe then Regulation 261 applies.

[highflyer40]

But the passenger flew, ergo the seat WAS safe, just uncomfortable. British Airways is not going to let a passenger sit in an unsafe seat for 11 hours, think about it.

[edi_local]

For comparison, I was gifted 10,000 Avios 3 years ago when on a BA flight (not saying your flight was BA, but they are the only one who uses Avios on the direct BKK-LHR route) from IST-LHR the curtain separating Business from Economy (was a Euro config 767) blocked my view of the TV and the headphone socket was faulty too. I mentioned in my complaint email that I was unable to see the safety demo video (which I wasn't) and I suppose they thought I may take it further (I wouldn't have) so within a few weeks I had the avios in my account, which was quite a lot compared to what I also got from the flight itself.

A friend of mine was on one of their early A380 LAX-LHR flights which suffered from an IFE system failure and the duration of the flight had no IFE at all. She was apparently given 20,000 avios without even needing to complain. I am not sure which cabin she was in, but I do know she flies that route every 6 weeks or so, so she may be at least bronze level. Then again perhaps the compensation was upped as it was quite embarrassing for their brand new plane to suffer such a thing.

I don't think there seems to be an hard and fast rule, or if there is then no one has applied it in your case as 5,000 avios for such a thing doesn't seem all that much, but then again, you did fly and did sit in the seat for that time so they are maybe less willing to gift anything more as they got you to LHR as intended and you agreed to sit there.

Having said that, if the seat was known to be broken before boarding started then they would have had to sort you out somehow or get an engineer, but clearly this has happened on the inbound flight, possibly the pap before you did something and didn't bother to mention it. There is only so much you can expect the crew to do. If the inbound crew were not aware of it and the seat wasn't damaged enough for the cleaning team in BKK to notice or the new crew to notice on a pre-flight walk around then It is hard to imagine just how broken it was, compared to just being uncomfortable due to wear and tear. The TV Screen not working is bizarre though and would suggest the seat infront also has a problem!

[Capot]

But the passenger flew, ergo the seat WAS safe, Run that past me again......no, sorry, it's stlll the silliest assertion I've read on PPRuNe for quite some time! I think it's called a non sequitur.

[Terry K Rumble]

I know I said I wouldn't post again, and I may regret this, but HF30, are you really an ex 737 captain? In fact are you even an ex Pilot?

I have read some rubbish on PPrune over the years, and your latest comment is right up there with the best I must say.

'the pax flew, ergo the seat WAS safe'

Wow, what an astonishing claim to make!

[RevMan2]

This is what happens on proper airlines

If the incoming crew flags an item, the station mechanic inspects, determines whether repairable/serviceable/unserviceable. Crew takes appropriate action.

If operating crew identifies an issue on boarding, the station mechanic inspects, determines whether repairable/serviceable/unserviceable. Crew takes appropriate action.

If a passenger identifies an issue, the station mechanic inspects, determines whether repairable/serviceable/unserviceable. Crew takes appropriate action.

"Appropriate action" in the case of an unserviceable i.e unsafe seat would be to reseat the passenger.

In the case of a full aircraft, someone gets off.....

[lomapaseo]

RevMan

A lot of Ifs in that.

As a passenger in my case, I decided the seat was safe enough and only reported it on egress.

[KBPsen]

I decided the seat was safe enough

It seems that Terry K Rumble decided the same thing.

[Terry K Rumble]

'Final' e mail from BA tonight saying that despite their further investigation and accepting my comments and those of the CSD, the offer of 9000 Avios points is 'fair' and is the final offer they will make.

They are sorry and hope that I will continue to fly with them.

Will I? Probably, but I will at least check out the competition from now on instead of automatically booking BA to fly everywhere.

Thanks for all your comments and banter - even from those who have been somewhat hostile