Bankstown Airport for sale.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
I am surprised that there is not already a thread on this (haven't missed one, have I?) , but Bankstown and Camden are up for sale.
I wonder will the Minister enforce the terms of the Commonwealth Lease --- or go along with so called "light handed regulation", which is, in reality, close to open slather for developers.
Tootle pip!!

[PLovett]

There was an article in yesterday's AFR about the sale. Price expected is above $195m for an annual return of about $19m and the possibility of further developing the land identified as not required for the airport itself subject to the lease from the Feds for another 82 years.

I don't know what commercial returns are required on commercial property these days although I thought most companies looked for about 15% so they might be looking for a buyer for a while, or not as the case may be.

Perhaps the users may like to consider a consortium to purchase them. After all, even on a 10% return it is probably better than what they are achieving through aviation.

[On Track]

I think the federal government should do the only honourable thing -- and renationalise them in the interests of aviation.

And pigs will fly.

[thorn bird]

Raptor, I would guess a lot sooner than ten years.

The next couple of months will decide the fate of GA in Australia.

Unless there is an acceptance by our political masters that what has occurred the past few years has been a complete, corrupt, total waste of Taxpayers money.
Unless they write it off and start again, there is very little hope.
GA will go the same way it has gone in Europe.

The only consolation is NZ is not that far away for the junkies who cant do without their aviation fix. A shift to NZ is already happening and will accelerate as the cost and consequences of our regulatory regime continue to bite.

Our GA airports and their future was always going to end in tears.
They were never viewed by anyone except those involved in aviation as public utilities.
They were always those huge blocks of vacant land begging for development, there was never any hope an impoverished GA industry could counter the development sharks money.

I've had people say the airport act prevents it, yet they closed Hoxton Park, declared it freehold sold it to Woolworths and Mc Bank got all the money they spent on the three airports back and no doubt paid no taxes and charges.

Why does anyone imagine they couldn't do the same with Bankstown.
A billion dollars buys a lot of votes.

[roundsounds]

When Badgerys Creek opens the associated airspace will effectively close YSBK. I'm betting YSBK operators will be given the choice of moving to YSCN or Badgerys Creek. Bankstown will look very much like YHOX does now.

[LeadSled]

When Badgerys Creek opens the associated airspace will effectively close YSBK. I'm betting YSBK operators will be given the choice of moving to YSCN or Badgerys Creek. Bankstown will look very much like YHOX does now.

It doesn't have to be the case, there are many major airports around with a number of GA aerodromes much closer to a major runway complex than YSBK versus Sydney West.

Just as two examples, have a look at Los Angeles or London EGLL.

Tootle pip!!

[Stanwell]

LeadSled,
Yes, we know it doesn't HAVE to be the case - but...
The salivating developers' detailed plans for YSBK were drawn up years ago.

When Sydney West inevitably gets the go-ahead, the right words in the right ears (not to mention the 'handshakes') will seal the deal
in the interests of 'Public Safety'.
GA will effectively be dead by then and Third Level operators will be shoved out to Badgery's.

Besides, where else are we going to put Sydney's burgeoning Middle Eastern population?
They've gotta stay within coo-ee of the Lakemba Mosque, y'see.

Am I being cynical or just pragmatic?

[LeadSled]

Stanwell,
Very probably and very sadly, realistic.
Tootle pip!!

[IFEZ]

Those same salivating developers have been eyeing off Essendon & Moorabbin for years as well. Imagine how much the land at Essendon is worth now, if carved up for housing. Same for Moorabbin. Wonder if its just a matter of time before they head the same way.

[Squawk7700]

Hopefully I've got these calculations right for Moorabbin and Essendon.

Moorabbin is 725 acres - 20% for roads and parks = 580 acres x 10 blocks per acre is 5,800 blocks @ $1,150 per sqm (450sqm avg) @ $517,500 per block = $3b. (not sure if that includes DFO, the business park and Costco)

Essendon is 750 acres - 20% for roads and parks = 600 acres x 10 blocks per acre is 6,000 blocks @ $1,400 per sqm (450sqm avg) @ $630,000 per block = $3.8b (not sure if that includes Police facility and DFO)

That's the RETAIL cost of the land and not including the money involved in the housing component. Take away the developments costs and margins and you're still left with a bucket load of cash that you will NEVER make out of a few sausage factories doing circuits. This is why they built the business park, DFO and Costco (about to be built at Moorabbin); they all help to pay the rates which are no doubt applied at a rate that somewhat reflects the value of the land.

It's only a matter of time !

[Squawk7700]

Tullamarine and Essendon are 9.6 NM apart !

I'll bet in the Essendon hey-day there were a lot of moments; nowadays it seems like a few bizjets coming and going.

[pithblot]

Clearedtoreenter: ridiculous idea. It's way to logical and practical for those who call the shots. And it might just save GA's arse, which would never do :(

Essendon, I'm told, in its heyday was very busy. Long after its heyday, late70s - 90's, I remember it still doing a roaring trade. It was a great airport.

pithblot

[Wunwing]

Holesworthy is not such a bad idea.
With the Army moving from Oakey to Nowra in the near future I doubt if they need 2 airfields that close.

Wunwing

[roundsounds]

The airspace could be designed to work based on overseas models, but we're talking Australian Airspace. Do as I did, draw some airspace steps using the same dimensions as YSSY on Badgerys and you'll see what I'm basing my comments on. For years various organisations have been lobbying to reduce the dimensions of YSSY without success, so I can't see why they'd reduce them now. In any case, moving YSBK YSCN operators to Badgerys would provide the developers some income pending airlines establishing their roots there.

[Squawk7700]

The Army don't need it, they fly helicopters these days !

[Ultralights]

Holsworthy will always be out, firstly, the army wont give up their prime training ground easily, especially considering the current global climate with religious fanatics. and secondly, the landscape isnt exactly flat, currently at 800 mtrs, it takes up pretty much all the flat useable area already. it runs across the ridge rather than along it.

[wishiwasupthere]

Considering the Holsworthy airfield (maybe better described as a heliport with a VERY short runway) and surrounds plays host to arguably the second most important military unit in Aus (2nd Commando Regt i.e TAG - East) and its associated aviation assets, there's 2 chances of it ever being developed as a civilian airfield. F%#k all and none.

[Ultralights]

I see the occasional Blackhawk hanging around there, maybe once or twice a week but that's about all.

there are quite a few more birds there now, and flying far more often than you think...
and also, dont forget its surrounded by live fire ranges on 3 sides.

[Nulli Secundus]

Can anyone recall the sale price of Hoxton Park?

Its my understanding legislation requires certain airfields remain airfields. Any clarification on this? I believe BK at least must remain as such.

[Nulli Secundus]

Couple of supplimentaries:

Anybody have a view as to whether the Wagner family could be a possible buyer? Possible tie up with their TWB operation?

Bigger question: say hypothetically a consortium of aviation people raised the capital and became the owners, what would YSBK need to look like & how would/ could it generate the majority of its revenue as a profitable airport & aviation asset? Does it need to become another London City airport to effectively stave off the pressure of continuing as simply a property development venture?

[ramble on]

The airports (and any other public infrastructure) should not be in the hands of a "For Profit" entity.

Australia - anything goes for short term profit and greed - big businesses are the puppeteers running the show.

Anything that is not profitable enough is figuratively sprayed with roundup, ploughed up and turned over like a Monsanto cornfield.

The only trouble is that we are turning what we love about this country into exactly the dustbowl that Monsanto cornfields threaten to eventually be. The things that we dont like about other places - rampant unchecked high rise, overcrowded city living, overtaxed infrastructure and stressed unhappy residents.

BTW, Singapore actually has five airfields across its width - Tengah, Sembawang, Seletar, Payah Lebar and Changi. and in size and capacity Changi is probably the equivalent of Sydney and Melbourne put together.

London has Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted, Northolt, Farnborough, Biggin Hill, London City and Southend plus a bunch of GA fields.

The national disgrace - that international flights into Sydney, Melbourne and Perth have no real viable credible international diversion airfields within 100nm.

[triton140]

We need more of this (http://www.flyingmag.com/news/thanks-nj-judge-ga-airports-win-collective-victory)!

The judge had this to say:

"Not only is general aviation important to the national infrastructure, but it serves a critical role as the cradle of aviation. The security and economic vitality of the United States depends on this laboratory of flight where future civilian and military pilots are born.

"Airports such as Solberg blossomed in an era when local young men turned their dreams of barnstorming into air dominance in World War II and led this country into its golden age. These dreams still live in our youth, and general aviation endures as the proving ground for future pilots from all walks of life.

"Finally, there is a certain freedom that defines general aviation. Men and women throughout history gazed longingly at the soaring effortless freedom of birds, pondering release from the symbolic bondage of gravity.

"Only here can a man or woman walk onto some old farmer's field and turn dreams into reality. As Charles Lindbergh once said: 'What freedom lies in flying, what Godlike power it gives to men ... I lose all consciousness in this strong unmortal space crowded with beauty, pierced with danger.'"

[hiwaytohell]

If there was an opportunity for pilots to buy in how many of us would be prepared to pony up?

I would be happy to use some of my super fund to see BK not only saved but possibly even reinvigorated with aviation friendly (but still business savvy) leadership.

[LeadSled]

Its my understanding legislation requires certain airfields remain airfields. Any clarification on this? I believe BK at least must remain as such. Correct, but it has made little difference.

For the leased airports like YSBK etc., S.9.2 0f the Commonwealth lease is quite clear, but the Dept. of Infrastructure has not enforced it.

As for ALOP airports, the same department and it predecessors have allowed local councils to abrogate the terms of the lease contract with impunity.

Can'tberra and the pollies have a lot to answer for, sadly they apparently only answer to those who make the largest donations to party funds.

Tootle pip!!