New RAAF uniform

[ex-knuck]

I haven't been back to Oz for sometime, saw a few guys in the new RAAF uniform which is the same as it used to be in the good old days before we looked like bus conductors. All I can say is that it looks SH#T HOT. Well done to the person who instigated the change.

[Macchi]

The old uniform chestnut... Did you also happen to notice if the RAAFies were wearing the "operational readiness badge"? That is to say, the badge that states you're "ready for operations". (Funnily enough I always thought that's what the uniform meant).

I know that a uniform change is a cosmically small issue (financially) in comparison to wages and capital acquisitions, but every cynical bone in my body find's it amazing that ANY money was spent on this issue.

Yes, it's a far smarter and more distinctive uniform than the old - but will it cause the RAAF to perform its role any more efficiently or successfully? (They should've have gone the whole hog & bought Spitfires to match the uniforms.)

We have far more pressing issues - I for one would like to see chocolate bars back in the inflight rations!!! C'mon RAAFies, who's with me? Rally your CATOs & COs, we can make a difference:D :D :D

[MG]

Anyone got a web link so that those of us in Blighty can see what you're on about. Please don't get me started on the quality of our working dress. Let me throw this handgranade in for the Brits - metal (silver, pewter, whatever) wings for shirt sleeve dress? Yes or no? I vote definitley YES!

[oldpinger]

Try this link and have a look at April 2001 issue

http://www.raaf.gov.au/newsidx.htm

[Cougar]

The new uniform actually allows the public to stop perceiving us as coppers and gives us some actual credit of being part of the military for once. I think it is S*** HOT also. The ceros are the best bit, apart from the $500 odd that you have to fork out to get them :D

[DuckDogers]

Think we should do the same, change the unfiorm to a better, darker shade of blue, improve the quality, let's face it, it can't get any worse and finally allow us to wear our BLOODY MEDAL RIBBONS and WINGS if youve got them!!!!

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Macchi:

Trashies get choccy bars. "Because I'm worth it".


RAAF Uniform changes. pa... sweating the big issues as usual. Who wears blues anyway :D

PAF

[FishHead]

They haven't stopped my choccy rations!
Now that would be a retention issue :)

[BEagle]

Why don't we just agree upon 4 uniform standards:

1. Clockwork Soldier 95 for all non-aircrew branches as normal working dress. With tone-down national flag, name and unit badge.

2. New pattern flying suits in DPM (2 types - temperate and desert) with a mandatory pattern of wings/brevet with name, national flag, sqn badge (all in tone-down colours) for aircrew.

3. "No 1s" for parades/weddings/bollockings.

4. "No 5s" for Dining-In Nights with agreed pattern cummerbunds for all sqns/branches. Quite fancy a gold stripe down the side of the strides though!


....and once and for all get rid of the useless woolly pully in all its variants and 'No 2s'. Which just about describes the people who wear it...

[canberra]

ive looked on the raaf website. the only picture i could find was of a female wearing a blokes uniform at a gallipolli ceremony. i say a blokes uniform cos it had breast pockets and a belt. what is the badge worn on the right breast? it looks a lot like the badge the nazis wore on their uniform! i guess its the operational badge that some blokes have been on about. in reply to the previous comments about raf wearing cs95, oc ops at leuchars wanted to do this but was slapped down by co. apparently air force board have said that we are to wear blue, so why are flying suits and ground crew coveralls green?

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Even more importantantly.

Why do Nav's get a double wing? I hope Air Defence OFficers get the same wing navs do. That will **** 'em.

Why do we have to wear the RAAF ensign when flying around Australia and get a bollocking if we wear the Aussie flag. We are not allowed to wear a flying suit off base, and everyone on base should know that we are in the RAAF.

PAF :)

[Surditas]

Canberra,

The badge on the right is the "ORB": the "Operational Readiness Badge" signifying the wearer is deployable. That is:
1) They can recognise a service rifle
2) They can run their annual PFT faster than the CAF (not easy, actually. The Boss is pretty fit)
3) Ummmm, a whole bunch of other stuff.

I always thought wearing the uniform meant I was deployable. Apparently, that is not enough these days. It is part of the push to give everyone a badge. Some call it the Order of the Blunt Eagle.
When it was introduced various theories were bandied around in regard to its design ranging from similarity to that worn by a certain European air arm from the last century to comment that it looks like a wedge tailed eagle with impressively large testicles.

Pass-a-Frozo,

I remenber the uproar when the new nav wings were introduced. I was on pilots course at the time. The first we heard of it was when an irate QFI came into our classroom brandishing a piece of paper, a petition against the new wings, saying "Sign this or you're all scrubbed". We pointed out that signing a petition is tantamount to mutiny and we could all be shot at dawn, but signed anyway. Pretty cocky of us really: we hadn't qualified to wear a pilots badge and we were dictating to others.
I understand (could be wrong here...) that the nav badge is actually an "Officer Non-Pilot Aircrew" badge, so is worn by navs, AEO's and soon to worn by AirDefendO's when 2 SQN gets airborne.

For the record, I get chocky bars and bickies in my in-flights. For a good day out we get off base accomodation and a crew van for the use of.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Surditas,

I was on pilots course at the time as well and remember the "encouragement" well.

I think the Nav's will send up a roar when Airdefendo's etc. are walking around with the same badge. Mind you, it's not the new navs' fault. You'll have to look at old WGCDR's in Canberra for that.

"Anywhere, anytime, so long as it's off base"
PAF

[Gainesy]

I digress. What's a Knuck? And why?

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Knuckle head = Fighter Pilot (Knuck for short)..

[canberra]

thanks for answer on that badge. raf has talked for years about every trade having a badge but so far nothing. one thing i noticed when at butterworth was the differences in uniform in the raaf ie some in khaki and some in blue , why? in the raf if we're serving in the tropics everyone wears khaki. as a final point on the raaf website they spelt air marshal with two l's!!

[Pass-A-Frozo]

You can wear Khaki (Drabs) or Blues, as you wish. As for the two L's . Pick who's been using civilian contractors :)

A bit off the topic. But why do they bother with a Return of Service Obligation if I can just do 29 situps and get out :D

[Surditas]

Pass-a-frozo,

What course were you? I was 180.

Canberra,

"Air Marshall"? God, how embarrassment. Pass-a-frozo is right. Our recruiting is now done by a civvy contractor called "Manpower". Need I say more?

[Huron Topp]

From '68-'87 all Canadian branches had a green, garbage-bag-coloured uniform. Changed back to "elemental" uniforms, but the Air Force one has never seemed to me, to be quite the right colour. Closer to the old RAAF colour, than the RAF. Better than the green, anyway.

As for the "double wing", since about '52, all full-time aircrew have worn a double-wing. In other words, anyone whose trade was an aircrew trade. Others, like Air Weapons Controllers, TacHel Observers, Flight Surgeons, Flight Nurses and Loadmasters are seconded from the primary duties, so they have a different wing. Has 2 wings, but they are upswept and kind of hug the wreath at the centre.

A couple of years ago, Loadies' wings became the normal double-wing. I've been out of blue for awhile, but my understanding is that they can now be full-time aircrew, but are still part of the Logistics trade.

I'm an ex-Nav, so I never quite understood the whole half-wing debate. I don't think everyone should have a wing insignia, but full-time aircrew certainly should. Canada has a half-wing worn on the right breast for basically every trade now, and it seems to me they've gone overboard.

In the U.S., EVERBODY has something, but then again, I guess they figure they need another addition to the fruit salad they have.

[a_plane_like_this]

On the topic of wings...anyone know when and why the RAAF ended up with metal wings? Have the Poms ever had them and what is the current reason for not having them? I suspect it is something to do with having a sanitised uniform but that is purely a guess.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Not sure when the RAAF ended up with metal wings. I believe however the RAF don't wear wings on there blues shirt, but do on their jumper (or "Wooly Pully"). I'm sure some poms will correct me if I'm wrong!

My theory on how the wings thing will go:

Everyone EXCEPT pilots will have wings, and when you graduate pilots course, you pass your wings over to a new recruit :D

[canberra]

the yanks have a confusing system with aircrew badges , believe it or not they all were the same flying badge! dont know about anyone else but surely there should be some difference between a pilot and a navigator/wsos badge? i get even more annoyed with the yanks for not allowing their ncos to wear rank badges on flying suits. as regards to metal wings i have seen some aircrew wearing them on shirts, but i dont think dress regs allow it. the army wear flying badges on shirts, but not on jumpers, not sure about navy.

[ftrplt]

not quite correct Canberra. The USAF wings are the same shape but the difference is what is in the middle. The pilots wings have a shield, WSO's have a fist grapping what looks like lightning bolts. Other categories have different symbols again. (It is impossible to tell until you are about 2 feet away).

The RAAF Nav full wing was introduced mainly as a recruiting measure, there was too much feedback that the single wing was seen as a big negative. The only RAAF navigators at the time who rushed to get one were WGCDRS and above in Canberra (desk jobs!). We had a petition running around as well but were basically told it was supported by the chief so dont bother fighting it.

As far as blues and drabs, drabs have always been optional.

The reason I thought the RAF dont wear wings on their blues shirts was so they could comfortably wear a flying suit over their uniform:p Saved time on a shower when time to go to the bar!

[Huron Topp]

Canada's the same, with the same wing but the centre symbol being different: maple leaf for pilots, globe and lightning bolt for nav's, 3 bolts for AESOps, and the rest. Unlike the USAF, at least you can see the difference from 10 feet.:p

I can see the recruiting argument, nobody actually joins to be a Nav...including me:D ! But the old eyeballs didn't pass muster. Helluva lot better being a Nav, than commanding tanks.

Kinda makes you wonder though, when such a seemingly small matter can cause such an uproar. When our SARTechs were 'upgraded' to a full wing, there was an uproar as well...except from the pilots in SAR work.

By the way, the new RAAF nav wing, is that the one with the southern cross in the centre?

[canberra]

sorry to tell you that yank wings are the same for all aircrew! i spoke to a usaf loadie a couple of years ago and he confirmed that all yank wings are the same. he said that he preferred the dare i say"imperial" system!

[chippy63]

USAF wings

I was told by a USAF guy here that the central part of the badge gives the spec of the wearer- there is one with a vertical rocket, for example, worn by silo officers, navigators have a compass or something like that. For pilots, there is quite a distinctive set of wings with a star above it which designates "command pilot"status

[Macchi]

Canberra, you're way off mate - as stated by (several) people previously USAF wings ARE different based on qualifications & experience/seniority.
The only problem is you need a websters dictionary, electron microscope & gas chromatograph to decipher the differences (ie anything outside of 2 feet in range renders all the badges the same).

[Huron Topp]

http://www.nametags4u.com/cgi-bin/wwlist.cgi?pm=LISTCAT&cat=airforce

[ftrplt]

Gee Canberra, in the 2 1/2 years I spent flying in a USAF fast jet SQN my eyes must have been lying to me.

Im glad you are able to clear it up for me. Thanks.

Me thinks your USAF loadie mate hasnt got close enough to the front end guys to notice a difference.

[Huron Topp]

Perhaps the term Aircrewman would be more appropriate here? All Aircrewman in the USAF have the same wing: loadies, refuellers etc.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

On the recruiting arguement..

If Joe Bloggs civy doesn't want to join as a NAV because he doesn't want a half wing, is he really motivated for the job?? Surely we are not changing a 15 cm badge for just plain recruiting purposes. I suspect that was the arguement advanced, however it is based not on logic!! :confused:

[Fox3snapshot]

Left the RAAF in 95, the best 7 years off my life...after which worked in NZ and in the RNZAF Territoral Air Force (when there was an Air Attack Force!!).

Q. What is with Nav's wearing full Breve (wingy thing!!) or a similar word in French, it breaks all tradition and leaves the gates open for......FLGOFF Goopter the transport officer wearing a set of wings because his trucks refuel the odd C130 in Learmonth.......

Grip it up boys....and gals, we are not yanks and don't need to be walking around with so much medal and insignia palava on our uniforms that we need to call TNT worldwide removals every time we need to go on parade!!!!

Viper 10, 8 in the circuit, Report Initial......

:cool: