AUSFLY 2015 September 4-6, YNRM

[AUSFLY 2012]

Its on again folks! Start planning your weekend away!


http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/Ausfly2015_zps8syrpgas.png

[Jabawocky]

I will be going! My spies tell me good things planned.

Hey Mods….this needs a sticky for a while, what do you think? :ok:

[AUSFLY 2012]

Details will start appearing on the website in the coming weeks.


First priority is accommodation. Camping under the wing is permitted in a small area (fees payable to NTP), camping at Narromine Tourist Park is available by either BYO or booking through Tent Town Tent Town @ Ausfly - together under one sky | Tent Town (http://www.tent-town.com.au/ausfly/)


See you there!

[no_one]

The website is still fairly short of detail.

AUSFLY - Together under the one sky (http://ausfly.com.au/)

Hopefully there will be some updates soon.

[Jabawocky]

The website is still fairly short of detail.

Yep……thats about what was said by the previous post,

Details will start appearing on the website in the coming weeks.


First priority is accommodation. Camping under the wing is permitted in a small area (fees payable to NTP), camping at Narromine Tourist Park is available by either BYO or booking through Tent Town Tent Town @ Ausfly - together under one sky | Tent Town



Often the finer details are not published until just prior to the event. Ausfly should not be any different I guess.

[AUSFLY 2012]

NEWS OF THE DAY




RAAF ROULETTES CONFIRMED
http://www.airforce.gov.au/imgs/IMG_1435.JPG


PAUL BENNET AIRSHOWS CONFIRMED
http://www.wolfpitts.com/images/wingkit%20flying/cross1.jpg

[RV6]

Tickets for the Saturday evening function are now available via the on-line shop at saaa.com The dinner and entertainment are open to SAAA members and non-members - all welcome! There will be a three course buffet meal, and a VIP guest speaker as well as awards for aircraft judged in various categories.

Don't miss out - get your tickets now, it will be a great night!

SAAA Hon National Secretary

[Sunfish]

I'm driving. Accommodation Dubbo.

[Squawk7700]

I'm heading up there from Melbourne by air, should be a nice leisurely few hours direct. Here's hoping for some nice weather that lets us get out of Melbourne on schedule. Am looking forward to it as our weather lately hasn't been good for "enjoyable" flying of late. It's ok if you need to be somewhere, but it's not fun flying. I know a large bunch of aviators heading there from all over the country, so I suspect it will be busy.

[AUSFLY 2012]

Book your dinner tickets via this link


https://saaa.memnet.com.au/MemberSelfService/EventBooking.aspx?selectedEventId=2


Fantastic three course meal and a great dinner party every time, catered by leading local company "Flavours by Mel". Heat & Eat | Frozen Food | Special Occasion Catering | (http://www.flavoursbymel.com.au)


Bookings close 23/8/2015 so book now, as the numbers are strictly limited and we are sold out each year.

[AUSFLY 2012]

Many updates to the website including links to booking Tent Town and Saturdays dinner party function.


www.ausfly.com.au (http://www.ausfly.com.au)


GA Party time in YNRM

[Sunfish]

Now tenting and dinner is booked!

[Jabawocky]

See ya there Sunny and Squawky :ok:

I have just booked our dinner tickets, and I am told that bookings close on the 21st.

Get ya booking in folks!

[Ultralights]

Accommodation and transport all sorted in one.

https://pamuva1.smugmug.com/Holidays/Snow/i-kf2q3TF/0/M/IMG_5103-S.jpg

[Duck Pilot]

Can't wait, planning to bring kids up as well - should be a blast!!!!

Last airshow I went to was at Valley Field when Bob Hoover come down here 😀😀😀😀

[CHAIRMAN]

The 104 Squadron is planning on taking the Dove for an outing:ok:

[CHAIRMAN]

Did I just shut down the thread ?:sad:

[Jabawocky]

Hey Chairperson,

Maybe they are just all waiting for the old girl to appear.

It would make a great centre piece, you better book some hard stand for her though.

:ok:

[Jabawocky]

I am going early but Mrs Jaba has booked Brisbane to Dubbo for not a lot of coin.

No excuses if you can't get there.

Take The Jet (http://www.jetgo.com)

[AUSFLY 2012]

The program and exhibitor guide is now on the website Ausfly 2015 - Program (http://saaa.com/Home/Ausfly2015/program.aspx)


Saturday nights dinner party can be booked at Ausfly 2015 - Bookings (http://saaa.com/home/ausfly2015/bookings.aspx)


Shaping up to be a great weekend

[DWB50]

Your program is stating the Air Display is on Friday & Saturday, however, the Flying In Tab on your web page states only on Saturday.
I know some guys from SA who were intending to fly in on Friday considering cancelling their plans to attend if the display is on Friday as well as they will have to hold out somewhere till around 4pm to get in

[AUSFLY 2012]

Well spotted


New version with a correction will be uploaded shortly.


There is a TRA both Friday and Saturday, so an early departure in order to get there before say 12.45pm would be a good suggestion.


Or, arrive Thursday, its all for fun!

[Squawk7700]

Noticed that the program says 1300am etc FYI. Smally typo.

I'm worried about the TRA also, so I'm hoping that the weather lets me out of Melbourne on time. Worst case I can catch it all again on Saturday :D It's like Oshkosh, an airshow every day !

[Jabawocky]

Squawky, I saw that too a few weeks back. I was going to comment but thought I should zip it :oh:

Paul Bennet is a air show pilot and performer….not an english teacher. :}

Cant get from MEL to NRM by 12.45 local? What do you fly :eek:

:E:E

[Squawk7700]

Cant get from MEL to NRM by 12.45 local? What do you fly


We get socked in down here.... you Queenslanders don't even know what that means. I was in Brisbane yesterday and it was perfect.

[Duck Pilot]

Don't let this deter anyone from flying into the event!

No doubt some CASA people will be at the event in some shape or form! If you aren't doing anything wrong - don't worry.

If you do come across a CASA person at the event by any chance, smash them with your questions!!!!!

[Jabawocky]

I know personally the majority of the CASA guys that will be there, they are all pilots and GA plane nuts, and beside a newbie I have never met, they are all OK folk when it comes to this stuff. Couple of them are always happy chap pies

No big deal, and even if you had an old chart they will just remind you of why charts change and you should keep up to date.

Of course if you blast through the TRA and do a beat up while the Roulettes are on, they might not be as happy as you would like.

Get in and go, this is the only serious national event on the calendar for GA anymore. Support it or lose it.

[Jetjr]

Long term forecast for Narromine Airport, New South Wales (Australia) ? yr.no (http://www.yr.no/place/Australia/New_South_Wales/Narromine_Airport/long.html)

Weather looking good!

[Squawk7700]

Long term forecast for Narromine Airport, New South Wales (Australia) ? yr.no (http://www.yr.no/place/Australia/New_South_Wales/Narromine_Airport/long.html)

Weather looking good!

I bags your floor JetJr, with 2 degrees forecast for your overnight low I hope you have central heating !!

[Sunfish]

I am preparing a list of questions which if answered at Ausfly, hopefully will allow me to understand the C of A process, work out which Com radios to buy, sort out the transponder choice, work out if I can get this flying over populous areas, identification markings, POH requirements, maintenance manual choice of words and a whole lot more.

[thunderbird five]

How about put up a few more of your favorites Sunnie - those that will be answering your questions will more than likely see them here, and they can make sure they have the scoop for you, then you'll be one happy camper (pun intended)

[Squawk7700]

By George that's a lot of questions to ask Sunfish. Why not find those answers through the normal channels of SAAA like technical councillors, chapter meetings and the builders C of A pack, and then let those at the event enjoy their weekend away at the airshow?

[thunderbird five]

I did wonder about that myself I must admit, but, I can and will still get Sunnies questions to the right people, in advance. Can't ask for better service than that.
See the AUSFLY workshop program for 0830 Sat Sunnie, and others. Bright eyed and bushy tailed, pencils ready.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
I notice, from a "CASA spokesperson" in the last couple of days, that CASA have refused to confirm OR DENY that they will be conducting ramp checks at Narromine (despite Skidmore's presence ) with particular emphasis on CAR 232 compliance, and CASA's fun new interpretation of same, under which very few private aircraft would comply.
It will be interesting to see what happens, given what CASA did to RAOz several Natflys ago.
Tootle pip!!

[thunderbird five]

Hold the phone a moment, please don't try frighten off people from flying in there.


Before even looking at what CAR 232 is, look at where it comes from.
CAR 1988, Vol 3, Part 14 - Air Service Operations.


Private aircraft do not conduct commercial air service operations.
Case closed.


Flyers should expect CASA ramp checks at such an event, but if you have all your ducks in a row, should be no problem! The basics are
Licence or pilot certificate valid.
Medical cert if required.
Registration, maintenance release (if required).
Current charts and ERSA available - paper or electronic.

[djpil]

In the same part 14 is:
209 Private operations
(1) The operator and the pilot in command of an aircraft engaged in private operations shall comply with the provisions of these Regulations and such additional conditions as CASA from time to time directs in the interest of safety ...

[Lead Balloon]

Gee thunderbird five, in that case CARs 233 and 234 don't apply to private operations either.

The word "commercial" is not in the heading of Part 14.

There are Divisions within Parts. One of the Divisions within Part 14 is headed "Requirements to ensure the safety of commercial operations".

Another Division within Part 4 is headed "Conduct of operations".

CAR 232 is within the latter (as are CARs 233 and 234).

And CASA disagrees with you.

If you think that CAR 232 applies only to commercial operations, you're in for a rude shock. But give it a go and let us know how you go. They'll always ask for evidence of carriage of current charts, info etc, as you say. That obligation is in CAR 233, which is, as I say, also in Part 14.

[Jabawocky]

Guys…..this is not a thread about CAR's. What is dumb and what is not.

I spoke with two of the four CASA folk who will be there, at another event today. They are both good guys. Nothing to fear at all. Strong GA backgrounds and big on education not belting you with a rule book.

Do the right thing, no big deal. :ok:

CASA are big part of making this event possible. They want it to succeed. And yes Mr Skidmore is quite keen to get out there among the people.

I am all for sticking it to them when deserved, but this is not when. Have a good weekend, enjoy the sights, have a great time seeing your friends from around the country….make new ones.

Make it a positive in a world of GA negativity. :ok:

[gerry111]

I agree with you, Jaba.

But for any dodgy aviators out there, please make sure that your visas are current..:oh:

[LeadSled]

Jaba,
I certainly hope you are correct, but the level of mistrust of CASA is hardly surprising. After all, the original tip came from within CASA.
Thunderbird 5,
Stick to cartoon games, where facts are optional and ignorance is bliss.
Tootle pip!!

[Jabawocky]

They have a double edged sword then don't they. It is them who has the most to lose.

Trust me when I say that. Bad behaviour will not be tolerated by CASA or anyone else for that matter. The public fallout with the DAS, the minister and many others would or will be so horrific if they step over the lines of decency that I can't begin to fathom the results. And yes if you are proven right, I expect no I told you so's I expect rolling up the sleeves and getting the job done.

GA in Australia is so fragile that over-zealous stupidity by the regulator could as you suggest kill off such events. This is my last one, so what happens next is not up to me, but I have the humble position of having considerable quantity and quality of media friends. Let alone the prune network, so to have things unravel that far in front of an audience of not just thousands but the DAS and the minister could be career limiting for those involved.

Like I said, I know now 2 quite well, and just yesterday met a third of the 4 person team. They are all good pro GA folk, and with another secret weapon against any regulatory stupidity in my back pocket :E I really do doubt there will be trouble.

The next thing to consider is this, historically we have had good numbers with damned near 100% compliance and it had been noted the good job attendees had done. Perhaps an audience of a different calibre? Less cowboys.

Besides we do not want cowboys at such a big event. We don't need them or the supposed numbers they represent. This is about quality not quantity, and if they are a complete lunatic cowboy, I bet they were not coming anyway.

Fly in, do the right thing, everyone is happy :ok:

[Squawk7700]

Bad behaviour will not be tolerated by CASA or anyone else for that matter.


Too right Jabba, the days of using the exhaust of an aircraft to blow up your inflatable mattress won't be tolerated! Those were the days, but not these days.

(True story)

[Sunfish]

Jabawocky:

[QUOTE]Fly in, do the right thing, everyone is happy/QUOTE]

Therein lies the problem Jaba, "the right thing" seems to change with the interpretation of each CASA regional office and the direction the wind is blowing.

That is why there are so many threads on Pprune regarding the regulations. "The right thing" is an elusive concept as far as CASA is concerned and simple folk such as me are dumbfounded with the ease that one can become an inadvertent felon.

To put it another way, why are we discussing the application of CAR 232 on another thread? Either it applies or it does not. The fact that there may be a "gentlemens agreement" that CAR 232 doesn't apply is about as useful as a "gentlemen's agreement" that a road speed limit doesn't apply. Its worthless.


There is no ******* way I'm registering or flying without bulletproof knowledge that everything do is 100% legal and CASA seems hell bent on proving that this is impossible - hence the "pilots are uncaught criminals" quote.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Sunfish, see my post on the CAR232 thread. Your checklist doesn't need CASA approval. Just point it out and all is well. Still gotta have..your licence..medical..plan..fuel log..pretty coloured maps..arfor..:E

[Squawk7700]

On a brighter note...

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc75/weather.jpg

[Ultralights]

cold nights, might see some frosts, good reasons to enjoy a decent drink and warm fire/blanket.

[no_one]

at least density altitude wont be an issue....

[Squawk7700]

So ultralights, did you find a J230 or are you sticking with the Hilux?

My plane doesn't like cold starts so I might not be rushing off on Sunday morn! I've packed an electric blanket, just need a kind hearted caravaner to plug into :-)

[Lead Balloon]

The long range forecast is disappointing.

My experience is that BOM's long range forecasts usually change from "severe CAVOK" to "Armageddon", or vice versa, in the course of 5 days ...

But I hope BOM's forecast is accurate on this occasion!

[Ultralights]

The Hilux is all packed and ready to go, Next year it will be my Savannah. better pack a few spare jump packs for the Jab drivers.

[Jabawocky]

Yeah the wx will be fine.

CAR xxxwill be fine as it does not apply here…..had it confirmed today despite the BS..

Come have some fun…..safe fun but fun all the same.:ok:

Hey UL….remember wear your T Shirt (free beer involved) ;) Or the Mrs will score it all.

[dubbleyew eight]

it must be really galling to put in all that effort,
organise use of the airfield and facilities,
organise all the catering,
organise all the events,
tone down all the hot heads so it all just runs smoothly

then have the clueless jobsworths from the endless regulation writing factory promise to turn up and ramp check everyone and ruin it all.

bwahahahahahahahah :mad:

[Jabawocky]

then have the clueless jobsworths from the endless regulation writing factory promise to turn up and ramp check everyone and ruin it all.

I can personally guarantee that is not happening. The regulator is a significant contributor….MAJOR SPONSOR and is doing a lot of promotional work for the event.

Comments such as these are actually more destructive than the regulator.

[haydnc]

I'm just trying to find on the www where it has information about camping with your aircraft. All the site says is that a fee will be charged, but not how much? Or how much space should be available to setup camp, or more importantly actions to be taken in the event I have to park the RV next to a dirty old Cessna, Bo or plastic parrot!

[Jetjr]

I think the fee is to the caravan park owner for toilets and showers
Airfield looks great, all green and loverly around the place, few aircraft arriving already
Saw the Wright Flyer get moved out today, had to make room for the dinner.
Great to see plenty of activity aroind the place
Bit windy but weekend looks good

[Sunfish]

Packing the Toyota today.

[Jabawocky]

$15 per adult, kids free

If you fly in, the PIC who is a member is free, pax pay.

Camping is the Narromine Touriost Park $10/night

Hope that helps

Pricing from Mangalore 1988:ok:

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Best wishes for the weekend, I hope it all goes well.
Enough noise has been made about CAR 232 that a few CASA types will have had to pull their heads in. They were, it would seem, smart enough to understand that a headbutting competition with their boss was unlikely to be career enhancing - a touchy subject in CASA right now.
We desperately need a national annual get together, and Narromine is, in my opinion, the best place for it. Distance wise, the best compromise for Victorians and Queenslanders, and far enough west to be out of NSW coastal weather.
Sadly, I can't make this one, maybe I will make it next year.
Tootle pip!!

[dubbleyew eight]

it would be nice if everyone who encountered a CAsA bod asked of them the innocent question "when is john quadrio getting his pilots licence back?"

I mean it is a polite innocent question ...and we'd all like to know.

Jaba do ask them about canadian owner maintenance and when it will become a part of australian aviation.
I checked my logbooks today and I have been a canadian owner maintainer now for exactly to the month 16 years.
you'd think they'd make it legal.
I'm one of the few guys in my club who hasn't pranged an aircraft and is never likely to.
fcuks up the statistics and predictions of doom I know.:mad:

enjoy the flyin mate.
(when I was part of the organisation casa never attended and there was never an incident)

[LeadSled]

W8,
As a matter of interest, the Canadian owner maintenance system is not new, it has been around since early 1990s.

In end 1996 it was put up for discussion, and was shouted down by "the industry", not limited to existing maintenance orgs., but also alphabet soup groups, NOT including AOPA, which, at the time, strongly supported the idea.

Needless to say, the ALAEA, both within and without CASA were vehemently opposed, as were CASA airworthiness as a group, along with vocal groups within the FOIs. All in the interests of safety, you know.

I well recall the comments of one then well known member of the ALAEA, at a meeting in Canberra: " I had to do a five year apprenticeship to change sparkplugs!!!. My reply was:" XXXX, in your case, I can understand that." He was not even a little bit amused.

With such broad (but entirely self serving, inward looking and change resistent) opposition, Leroy Keith, the then CASA CEO/DAS didn't pursue the matter, and AOPA could not carry it alone.

Not all the problems of Australian aviation are CASA's fault, there is plenty of blame to go around.

Tootle pip!!

[Ultralights]

what are my chances of getting approval to operate a few RPA's around the site for some great air to air photography?

[Squawk7700]

Probably NIL unless you did it through CASA greater than 28 days ago... there should be plenty of aircraft there on the weekend to be able to take a photo from ;-) I'll happily be a photo platform.

[Sunfish]

Driven 7 hours to Dubbo today. I figure a few days investment in Ausfly should make the decision to continue building a bit clearer - one way or the other.

The last few months have seen the appearance of two new costst - early propeller overhaul and now radio graphic inspection of welded tubular structures.

ThE next one I guess will be CASA vetting of Dynon Skyview software updates (and similar) before installation in Australian registered experimental aircraft is allowed. The legal basis for this is that new capabilities amount to major modification.

That can be followed by autopilot installation approvals. Then there can be rules for cameras, data logging, engine software upgrades, etc. etc.

The growth market for "australian" approved software or firmware upgrades to anything should be particularly fruitful for CASA - and triple the cost of software for Australians if we can get it at all. The Roatx 912 iS has already had what? Three firmware upgrades? Think of the fees if each "upgrade" had to be approved by CASA. WhAts the betting that even a firmware upgrade to a GoPro or Virb camera would fall under such a rule?

[Ultralights]

i didnt know CASA had to approve avionics installations? or anything really in an experimental category aircraft.

[Squawk7700]

So I take it Sunfish that based on your post that the amber fluid is flowing freely up there tonight or are you just tired from the long drive up?

[Duck Pilot]

Re the amber fluid, are we allowed to BYO to the event? Thinking about throwing half a dozen in the ice box.

If we can't is there going to be a bar available on site? 🙏🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

[Sunfish]

Don't casa have to approve avionics in experimental? Where does it say that in black and white? You are making an inference based on casa current interpretations of its rules and exemptions. You are trying to make a positive assertion from negative evidence.

Where does it say in the regs that "experimental aircraft can use any avionics they like"? It doesn't! You simply interpret casa passivity at the moment for permission.

I have already been told that entry into controlled airspace requires a casa approved radio. Your transponder setup must be approved as well.

All it takes is a new interpretation of "major modification" to include software or firmware upgrades and you are back getting re-approved sweetheart.

This is the trouble with all GA and recreational aviation; there are no firm foundations that guarante our existence. We live in a realm of exemptions and interpretations - all of which can be removed or changed at will.

Being a member of what I call the fact based community, I have trouble dealing with the endless stream of dodgy interpretations from casa and elsewhere. Hard information is difficult to find (and yes, I have had private communications saying "don't worry about this because xxxx says he is not going to enforce it or Yyyy is going to change the rules" but that is hardly satisfactory is it?

What passes for "fact" is usually a chain that goes something like this:

"Regulations abc says thronomisters must always be of an approved type, but exemption 1234 says an unapproved thronomister can be fitted to category xyz, and regulation 5678 says GA aircraft are category efg and exemption 7891 says experimental aircraft aren't category efg, so experimental must be category xyz because we aren't efg according to FOI Bloggs, so we can fit unapproved thronomisters". Nowhere does it say "experimental aircraft can fit an unapproved thronomister" in plain English. Maybe I'm just simple. I can read and make sense of 100+ page contracts for many millions of dollars but I lack the sense to understand aviaition regulations.

To put that another way, we exist because we have not (yet) been prohibited. There is no positive affirmation of our right to exist.

To put that in perspective, how many would be builders and pilots take one look at the regulations and decide to take up golf instead?

PS Squawk, Amber fluid and vino don't figure prominently in my diet, seven hours driving is more to the point, half in rain. I'm looking forward to Ausfly.

[Ultralights]

its an airport, with a licenced bar at the aeroclub, the caravan park is private property, so, drink away or bring your own to drink away.
just dont bring in 45kg of grass.

[Sunfish]

"And the time spent worrying about regulation is time that could be better spent on real safety issues.

[Jabawocky]

Serious weather earlier today has cleared and its looking good!

Will be busy in the morning as some exhibitors are still to fl in tomorrow morning, but its looking a treat already.

7 x Roulettes and all the display planes out the front look awesome.

Dubbo hour by hour detailed weather forecast (http://www.weatherzone.com.au/nsw/cw-slopes-and-plains/dubbo/detailed-forecast) :D :ok:

[Sunfish]

Good to see Ozrunways and horsham aviaition. No avgas this morning stopped a flying opportunity. Not much that hasn't been seen before. Most of the displays are RAA aircraft. Nothing to get enthusiastic about. Just miles of old farts like me wandering aimlessly around. there is a shortage of young enthusiasts which is not good for the future.

cASA has some guidance material out regarding fuel logs and a "personal minimum checklist" which looks like it will cease to be "guidance" and become regulation shortly.

Maybe this afternoon will be better.

Kudos to the staff and organisers for trying and working very hard. Basically there does not seem to be any sense of connectedness or ownership among people here. I do not sense any esprit de corps it's an alienating experience, but it's probably just me. Debating about skipping Saturday afternoon and going home early.

[LeadSled]

All it takes is a new interpretation of "major modification" to include software or firmware upgrades and you are back getting re-approved sweetheart.Folks,
This one already has a history. Some time back, now, CASA decided that the monthly updates to your WizzBank Avionix GPS ( the ARAC updates every 28 days) for IFR could only be installed by an avionics LAME at CAR30 (before Part 145) approved avionics shop. Depending on your equipment, these are the ones you can download to a PCMCIA, USB stick card or whatever, from Jeppesen or whoever for your equipment.

There was a big stink at the time, the idea that a large % of IFR aircraft would have to visit an avionics shop somewhere around Australia once a month was just too silly for words.

Fortunately, this was during the all too brief period at CASA of Byron and Vaughan, and a sensible outcome was arranged, but the "attitude" of several avionics outfits, who saw the opportunity for yet more regulatory induced guaranteed cash flow, was not pretty.


Your transponder setup must be approved as well.That applies even in the US, spurious/corrupted transponder returns could have all sorts of potential outcome if let loose inside CNS/ATM computers.

there are no firm foundations that guarante our existenceThat is not entirely true, although there are enough in CASA who think it is true, and many more who wish it was true.

Part 21 aircraft categories are there by right of law, not CASA indulgence, and it took a lot of effort to ensure the phrase "----- and CASA is satisfied" was not part of the then new certification standards.

You build and fly your Part 21.189, 21.191 etc. aircraft by right of law.

If that is to change, to put CASA back in the driving seat, that will (only) happen if the aviation community let it happen, and sadly, among us are a few who hanker for the "good old days" when there was no such thing as "Experimental", and the old Australian amateur built category was subject to damned near as many restrictions as building a certified design under a production certificate --- with all the related charges being a very significant cost of building.

--- but only in the interests of safety, as I am certain you understand, after all, you can't be allowed to make your own decisions as to what risks you find acceptable.

That all went in 1998. Blood, sweat and (almost) tears, but it went!!

The government policy at the time was clear, where you voluntarily assume a risk, CASA's ONLY interest is the safety of those on the ground under the flightpath of the aircraft, and other airspace users.

It disgusts me that any in the aviation community want to see even a partial return to pre-1998, but far too many Australians seen unable to function "without regulations".

RAOz is a bit of a different animal, in 30 or so years, CASA and its predecessors have failed to present draft regulations to eliminate all the CAR 95 etc. exemptions.

To everybody's cost, and just look at the not so little empire being built in the CASA Sports Aviation office.

Tootle pip!!

[Ultralights]

Good to see Ozrunways and horsham aviaition. No avgas this morning stopped a flying opportunity. Not much that hasn't been seen before. Most of the displays are RAA aircraft. Nothing to get enthusiastic about. Just miles of old farts like me wandering aimlessly around. there is a shortage of young enthusiasts which is not good for the future.

i have only been here since 7pm, and already a few friends in the aviation community already here have commented on the age of the crowd, and its implications for the industry, i must be part of the very few younger people here at a sprightly 40. another interesting observation is the negative attitudes of those in positions of influence with regards to the industry, and the negative nit picking attitude by quite a few people here, not what i expected to hear. , i know theis game is filled with strong personality types and egos, but seriously, can we just enjoy our sport without all the negativity and crap. some of this came from CASA people apparently.:sad::(

so, if you see a young spring chicken in a APS shirt, yes, i want a free beer, a red baron jacket and Alaska bush pilot hat, Say hi. ill try to be positive. :ok:

[Sunfish]

We will see today if the demographics of the crowd changes. Looks like I'll do a workshop this morning and maybe a flight then head home. I've never been so uncomfortable as in that tent last night for a long time.

Yesterday afternoon was good and I managed to find a few kindred spirits for a beer and dinner

[Jetjr]

It was Fridays guys, lots of young uns at work
Oz Runways showed over 100 aircraft flying at one stage, large portion headd inbound to YNRM

[Ultralights]

well, today was a good day, a decent turn out, lots of general public being entertained, and the most encouraging thing ever from fellow aviators, is the generally positive words about CASA.
i have been told via second hand ifo, that during the CASA talk on friday, with minister warren truss and skidmoore, is that CASA must no implement the points of a review recently, and that they must take a role of industry leader and fosterer as opposed to being the industry policemen. rumours i have heard are there have been NO ramp checks!
i can hear the cheering and claps from the SAAA hangar dinner, but the fire over here is warm, and the scotch is good.

[Sunfish]

Overall positive. The C of A workshop was good, I especially liked the noise certification bit where you get a "Certificate that exempts you from requiring a certificate" bit.

Flew the Savannah and now understand the references by new owners to sensitivity in pitch and more importantly, the absolute advice by SAAA not to do the first test flight yourself!

Oz runways staff absolutely stand out helpful as were all of the others.

General comment: It is good that Skidmore and the Minister were positive because I personally feel that GA, SAAA and RAA are right at "the point of no return". The turnout and number of exhibitors may have been good by Ausfly standards, but for a nation of 23 million people its pathetic. I spent seven hours driving home and thinking of how the bush should be criss crossed with light aircraft moving people at a fraction of the time and cost I was putting in.

TO put that another way: If Australia had rules like NZ, I feel there would have been a thousand aircraft and a hundred exhibitors.

[Frank Arouet]

Ultralghts;


Can you confirm that the Minister and DAS said "NOT" to implement the points of a review, which, hopefully I'm wrong in the assumption, but guessing is the "Forsyth Review"?


QUOTE: "CASA talk on friday, with minister warren truss and skidmoore, is that CASA must (sic) no implement the points of a review recently, and that they must take a role of industry leader and fosterer as opposed to being the industry policemen" QUOTE:

[Ultralights]

sorry, drunken typo from the caravan park fireplace, i meant that they NOW have to implement points from the review, direct from minister to skidmoore,
i cant recall if it was the forsyth review, but the person who was there told me, he has been critical of CASA for a long time, but he was impressed and showed for the first time i have ever seen him actually positive that CASA is now on the right path.

[Jabawocky]

I do not sense any esprit de corps it's an alienating experience, but it's probably just me.

You must have been looking in the wrong spots.

The team of folks, especially the Hamster and Terry……if I have 10% of the energy they have at their age…..:ok:

Seriously, you should have gotten there on monday morning. Then had dinner with them all during the week.

Esprit de Corps was in a high quality abundance where it mattered.

What the GA fraternity needs is bit more of it. And you re right, with our population more should have been there but it was a very good turn out.

I must pay special note to Mr Horne from Cirrus……he was almost violently going nuts about the fact he has been every year and loves it…..yet the other majors such as Beech, Cessna Diamond and so forth do not go.

He writes business.

A rising tide lifts all boats and the others are not pulling their weight.

Asking around, the odd thing that could be done better would be if more got involved, but overall, it was awesome. Dinner party was a hoot! :ok:

[Stanwell]

Jaba,
I was unable to attend due medical issues but I'd been following the posts on this thread.
Good to hear about Truss and Skidmore talking the talk, now let's see if they're going to...

I'm surprised that Hawker Pacific couldn't get their act together to make a showing - particularly in view of their recent "merger" with Aeromil.

I was sorry to hear that Sunny had an uncomfortable night in his tent. I assume he was talking about a 'Tent City' tent.
A side benefit of those tent cities is that there are invariably vacant tents which can be utilised for some 'independent entertaining'.

Any chance someone can post some pics?

[Ultralights]

pics, sure.
https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-8vgtHZ8/0/L/20150905-113950-IMG_7971-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-Nv93n8n/0/L/20150905-114323-IMG_7985-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-dKBsSCm/0/L/20150905-105555-IMG_7941-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-rvTBxBs/0/L/20150905-114017-IMG_7972-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-JFmfR2g/0/L/20150905-115557-IMG_8006-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-6hHHTRm/0/L/20150905-123006-IMG_8019-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-Whd7hbX/0/L/20150905-123138-IMG_8022-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-tLZtzTL/1/L/20150905-115819-IMG_8008-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-JQhLvHs/0/L/20150905-113538-IMG_7957-L.jpg

https://pamuva1.smugmug.com/Airplanes/General-Aviation/i-F89cF2D/0/L/IMG_5555-L.jpg

https://pamuva1.smugmug.com/Airplanes/General-Aviation/i-jmTDFzQ/0/XL/IMG_5560-XL.jpg

https://pamuva1.smugmug.com/Airplanes/General-Aviation/i-mLMFHg4/0/M/IMG_5550-L.jpg

home sweet home. with weather in Syd, we wouldnt have made it VFR.
https://pamuva1.smugmug.com/Airplanes/General-Aviation/i-B6PTmtR/0/M/IMG_5547-M.jpg

[Jabawocky]

keep em coming UL

Awesome pictures. :ok:

[Squawk7700]

Seems the clock was turned back on the weekend to 10 years ago.

AVGAS was $1.79 per litre at Narromine. YES, you heard it right, $1.79 per litre !

On my stop on the way home I paid $2.30 and arrived home to a price of $2.20.

Whoever arranged this discount, THANKS !

[haydnc]

The event was well supported by RV drivers. It seemed a bit of a waste since it was held on the same weekend as the Narromine show, Birdsville races, Temora flying day etc...

The caravan park owner was getting a bit upset with under wing campers using her facilities when the "website" said we had to pay but the site didn't say how much or where / when.

The $15 charge when we walked in the gate was for what? You could walk in off the street for nothing. Once again the ausfly website didnt really provide guidance on costs.

I remember the last Narromine airshow I attended (maybe 10 years back) you couldn't get near fence there were so many people.

Here are some campers at night:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/15lssvmokqqmb9x/IMG_1123.jpg?dl=0

[Jabawocky]

Whoever arranged this discount, THANKS !


Did you need to ask? ;)

But more credit should go to the team at Aero Refuellers :D

[Duck Pilot]

Special thanks to be organisers, it was an excellent weekend.

Only downside was the que for the steak sangars on Saturday, but that was something nothing as the beer was flowing at the bar 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

[Jabawocky]

The $15 charge when we walked in the gate was for what? You could walk in off the street for nothing.

Not accurate.

The walk in off the street was also $15, and what does all that pay for? If you were there you should know.

To put on an event like this costs a lot of money, and thousands of dollars of uncharged time by some pilots, organisers and so on.

To be frank, the old Mangalore days in 1988 (I saw a poster from back then in the office) were $10 adults and $5 for kids. Family of 4 = $30

Ausfly, 2015, $15/adults and kids free. Family of 4 = $30 for both days

That is 27 years later and still the same price. Or half by day.

Everyone who attends next year and pays a lot more than you did will be pleased you alerted me that the entry was far too cheap. Needs a CPI price rise from back in 88 I think :ugh::ugh:

Oshkosh charge members USD$25 per day Thats $36 in AUD a day, and if you are a member. Sure this is not Oshkosh but with the attitude of a few…..it will never grow to be more like it.

Fortunately the feedback I had was 99% big smiles and very happy.

I heard a story of one SAAA member who paid at the gate and went straight to the office, demanded his money back from the girls claiming why should he pay as he only came in to attend the AGM. := Then one of the board members wives stepped in and gave him a refund to stop the tanty and when asked for his name he sprouted, "well who are you?" He soon learned who she was, the Treasurer's wife :D

As he walked away they all chatted away to themselves…..now don't look up and enjoy the flying display that costs a fortune! := Funny thing was he was spotted later the Friday night at the Aeroclub enjoying dinner and beers with his mates, and funny enough the very next day all day with the wrist band he did not surrender. :=

What a low life. :yuk:

Aviation needs more of the folks who made this event happen, and none of all the whingers whiners and rock throwers. If you wonder why you get a sharp tongue from me ask me what it cost me to attend Ausfly, and ask me how many exhibits I saw, and how many friends I actually got to spend some time with. I dare anyone to ask (in private, and I am easy to contact) and then have a whinge.

To the 99% who had a great weekend, including all the 30-35 SAAA people (and locals) who rolled up there sleeves to make it happen, to the DAS Mr Skidmore who rather than take the easy way, drove to Temora and flew his own plane up, to the RAAF Roulettes, to Paul Bennet and his crew, to the Narromine Shire Council, to the folk fromAero Refuellers, Aviation Trader and CASA and all the exhibitors…………THANK YOU, because you guys deserve the accolades for a raging success. :ok: :D:D

[Jabawocky]

Special thanks to be organisers, it was an excellent weekend.

Only downside was the que for the steak sangars on Saturday, but that was something nothing as the beer was flowing at the bar 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

That was a problem but hey…..we want more folk like you there, who just roll with it and enjoy themselves. Thanks for coming.


No get your pictures posted up here. I have none :ooh: Was too damned busy.

UL…..c'mon man…more, we want more!

[Duck Pilot]

Pictures to come they are on the wife's phone, kids had a blast.

I was gob smacked with the professionalism of all the airshow participants - especially Paul Bennet and his team.

[Ultralights]

ok, if you insist :} (just have to convince sally to get her head out of the text books and edit a few)

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-vDC8GQW/0/L/20150905-105651-IMG_7943-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-FLTRQQz/0/L/20150905-113838-IMG_7968-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-2b9j7ff/0/L/20150905-113938-IMG_7970-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-Ww8ZVq5/0/L/20150905-114112-IMG_7975-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-wnQZtSM/0/L/20150905-114542-IMG_7993-L.jpg

I love unique paint jobs, its time we move away from the pinstripe, or cessna inspired designs. I hope Bob won something for this nice work on his RV7A

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-89T4Mn9/0/L/20150905-115242-IMG_8001-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-wzCbHFS/0/L/20150905-122001-IMG_8013-L.jpg

https://aph3sia.smugmug.com/AUSFLY-Narromine-2015/i-MNh93ks/0/L/20150905-123127-IMG_8021-L.jpg

[haydnc]

Not accurate.

The walk in off the street was also $15, and what does all that pay for?

If you were there you should know.

I was there but, you are obviously missing my point. I have no complaint on the charge ($15 is a cheap weekends entertainment) I just think the information was lacking which seemed to create some confusion. This is the reason for my earlier post.

What would have been appreciated is if the advertising actually stated that there is an entrance fee (yes i can see 1 line of text on the homepage), and that there is no additional fee to camp underwing. And if camping underwing you need to go and pay the lady at the camp ground to use the shower block . This may in the future save some angst between the camp ground and the organisers. Maybe the person at the gate could collect the payment for amenities at the same time?


Not accurate.

The walk in off the street was also $15

The reason also for me saying this, is i did enter on foot a number of times from the street, there was no one collecting fees, so I say again you can enter on foot for $0.

[Squawk7700]

Of course it goes without saying that SAAA members walked through the gate for $0...

What a fine J400 Jabiru prominent in that night picture above. Fitted with a Rotax 914 Turbo with CSU prop :ok:

[FoolCorsePich]

Can someone explain why one of the Nanchangs has a Taiwanese flag on it?

[Jabawocky]

HC
The reason also for me saying this, is i did enter on foot a number of times from the street, there was no one collecting fees, so I say again you can enter on foot for $0.

Please email me at david.brown 'at' saaa.com with full details of when and where this happened. The VRA from Narromine manned the front gate and I might add receive a very generous cut of the takings for providing parking, collection first aid and emergency service. If you got past them easily we need to know this.

I appreciate your feedback and maybe the website could have been better, but we are not all perfect at all things. From the website front page;
If you are Flying In and you are the Pilot in Command, your registration will be free, providing you are also a current member of either the SAAA, AOPA, RaAus or AWAL. For all passengers flying in and all other guests, there will be a $15 admission to attend the event.

And on the STAY tab this;
Camping Under the Wing of your aircraft will incur a cost per night per person to cover the costs of the amenities.

And I confess this probably should say payable to NTP.

Now back to positives……how was the Unicom service? What I saw/heard was awesome.

[The name is Porter]

What a fine J400 Jabiru prominent in that night picture above. Fitted with a Rotax 914 Turbo with CSU prop

With a Rotax in it, it would have made the airport rather than end up in a paddock somewhere :}

[Paul O'Rourke]

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/PaulO-001/Avenger%202015%20sml.jpg


http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/PaulO-001/Avenger%20Ausfly%202015%20A.jpg