Tiger to fly Tasman !!!

[BNEA320]

reported in Australian on Fri that TT @AKL talking about slots.


But what routes would TT fly ex AKL ?


Certain Qld ports once or twice a week ?


Maybe to bump up AKL/MCY ?


AKL/NTL ?


AKL/AVV ?


or take over some of the AKL/OOL services ?

[PoppaJo]

Its a breach of Virgin's agreement with ANZ if they drop services on any trans tasman services, so there will be no "taking over" routes. Tiger is not inclusive of that deal either.

So what you will see is probably extra capacity from the existing three bases, possible red eye flights from MEL/SYD/BNE.

I'd imagine Bali is not far away either, Fiji is a strong market too.

[BNEA320]

you wouldn't do red eyes out of SYD. A 2200 departure would arrive at 0300 ish.


No airline would want to get any closer to curfew than 2200.


Maybe VA/NZ could ask for variation of the dodgy alliance, ie. not reduce capacity, just introduce a lower cost airline.


That would prob satisfy both govts.

[BNEA320]

JQ did do some extra SYD/NAN flights recently that were arriving in NAN at some silly hour like 0300.


Guess it might give them better utilisation of aircraft if depart OZ on a Sat night.

[kiwiandrew]

Maybe as ad hoc services to squeeze some revenue out of positioning flights....haven't TT agreed to get some of their maintenance done in CHC by NZ ?

[BNEA320]

adhoc ?


No you wouldn't be talking to AKL about a few adhocs.


Yes NZ are doing their maintenance @ CHC I read somewhere too.


Do NZ & TT have same engines on their A320's ?


You never know, they might also be looking at some of the abandoned routes on a low frequency basis like twice a week into


HLZ
ROT
PMR
DUD/SYD + DUD/MEL but AVV makes more sense


& maybe even IVC

[underfire]

It appears that everyone is adding AKL to the flights. Emirates now the flies the A380 from Dubai to Brisbane to AKL, and A380 from Dubai to MEL to AKL....
I asked Emirates chief, and he said that AUS airports are charging so much to overnight, that they just hop to AKL, and in reality, the flights are pretty full, especially coming back to DXB.

Perhaps NZ is a cheap place to park?

[ozziekiwi]

You forgot the daily EK A380 DXB/SYD/AKL/SYD/DXB as well:ok:

[ASY68]

Most likely you will see a new PER base shortly, with DPS on the cards.

MEL is TT's hub and as such much expansion may emanate from there.

[kiwiandrew]

@Underfire... the flights from BNE/SYD/MEL to AKL and back are daylight so the aircraft wouldn't be overnighting in Australia even if they didn't pop across to AKL

[wheels_down]

I'd expect them to take loss making Perth to Phuket and Bali services off Virgin sometime soon.

With a lower cost base than Jetstar I'd imagine their keen to jump into the Bali and possibly Jakarta markets against AirAsia from Perth.

[BNEA320]

MEL/AKL has lots of VA/NZ flights - currently 25/week using B738, A320, B772 & B773 aircraft.


Are you suggesting that TT would take over some of these ?


We don't think so, but maybe AVV/AKL or CBR/AKL ?


Think VA/NZ would only want TT to take over very poor performing routes, or poor performing times of the day or back of clock where they might get better aircraft utilisation without any extra aircraft required.

[Sqwark2000]

I heard that it was cheaper for Emirates to operate the Tasman than to stay parked up in Oz for 7-8hrs, so a quick flit to AKL and back to save some $ & earn some $

[BNEA320]

the dollars come from Kiwis going to Europe etc. not to OZ.

[Metro man]

Perth - Phuket is pushing it a bit for the older A320s, it doesn't quite have the legs of the B737 NG. You'd need to run the numbers carefully first. The newer Sharklet aircraft perform better but it's still a long time in a narrow body aircraft with no IFE.

Perth - Bali could be a better market as Virgin are up against Air Asia with their lower cost base.

[BNEA320]

getting off topic.


The Tasman is obviously where TT are looking, but where exactly ?

[ASY68]

AVV is totally out of the question, once burnt, twice shy comes to mind.

NAN/AKL/DPS are looking to be initial routes.

[BNEA320]

JQ just got deal from hell from Vic govt RE AVV


"NAN/AKL/DPS are looking to be initial routes." ???


TR could do that.


TT are surely looking at either taking over poor/thin NZ/VA routes or supplementing good ones offering a more basis product, or new routes altogether.


The Kiwis would surely love more routes across the tasman to help their tourism industry.


People from TSV might not want to fly CNS/AKL or BNE/AKL but they might go if there was a TSV/AKL. Would only have to be twice a week initially.

[rowdy trousers]

Looks like terminal expansion at NTL is just about complete, with provision for international ops. (as well as commencement of runway extention). Pressumably JQ or VQ/ TT are looking at possibilities for international ops from NTL.

[Skystar320]

Would absolutely love it and support them to the 10th degree is they went domestic in New Zealand!

[BNEA320]

yep Freedom Air stopped NTL/AKL around 2002. Norfolk Island flights stopped about 5 years ago we think.


Don't think NZ would allow TT to go domestic in NZ. What would they do ? Compete with the bottom of the market with JQ ?

[c100driver]

NZ is open skies so anyone with Aussie AOC can turn up and operated under Trans-Tasman agreements.

[propaganda]

Not quite correct. An Aussie AOC holder must comply with all the ANZA requirements before operating in NZ. JQ had a few challenges to overcome.

[ozziekiwi]

Not quite correct - NZ operate AKL/NLK/AKL double banger on Sundays. Check the schedules.

Cheers :ok:

[BNEA320]

no talking about NTL/Norfolk Is

[c100driver]

Perhaps I was not as clear as I could have been.

An Aussie AOC holder does not have to ask anyone in the NZ government if they want to fly domestically in NZ. They have a right to operate in New Zealand.

Yes there are some regulatory operations oversight issues that need to be addressed but they do not need to ask to operate in NZ.

[BNEA320]

& vice versa. A NZL airline can operate domestically in Australia under NZCAA rules not CASA's !!!


think Vincent kind of had the right idea, but didn't control costs vs revenue.


They did operate a NZL registered 146 on NZCAA rules, although think it was parked at BNE much of the time & only did BNE/RMA/MEL once or twice a week.


It would be so much easier to work under NZCAA rules than CASA's. Not sure why more NZL airlines don't do it.

[waren9]

Not sure why more NZL airlines don't do it.

like who?

78910

[BNEA320]

can see Kiwi Regional doing it once they get up & running in NZL.

[Water Wings]

can see Kiwi Regional doing it once they get up & running in NZL.Upon reading this, several hundred pilots and aviation industry workers in New Zealand and Australia fell off their chairs laughing in disbelief that someone not only thinks Kiwi Regional Airlines are a viable business opportunity, but that they would venture and expand into an another saturated market filled with established operators with recognized brands and deep pockets.

[cnsnz]

Haha Kiwiregional yeah nah!
the term when hell freezes over comes to mind.

[porch monkey]

Don't worry about him, he just loves coming up with stupid ways for other people to spend their money.

[BNEA320]

QUOTE Upon reading this, several hundred pilots and aviation industry workers in New Zealand and Australia fell off their chairs laughing in disbelief that someone not only thinks Kiwi Regional Airlines are a viable business opportunity, but that they would venture and expand into an another saturated market filled with established operators with recognized brands and deep pockets.


END QUOTE


which is probably a good omen for KRA.


Obviously many pilots have no idea where their pay comes from.


& govt airline(NZ) who are high cost, can't even run certain routes.


As long as KRA keep costs under control, they'll do well (which is where Vincent stuffed up)


Vincent should have never got an Australian AOC & should have stayed small & nimble instead of having huge staff which they then had to find work to justify & ending up doing FIFO at below cost.

[waren9]

i dont even know where to begin with any of that :rolleyes:

[BNEA320]

Think about it.


If someone didn't have a go, most pilots wouldn't have a job.

[A320 Flyer]

I'd expect them to take loss making Perth to Phuket and Bali services off Virgin sometime soon.

With a lower cost base than Jetstar I'd imagine their keen to jump into the Bali and possibly Jakarta markets against AirAsia from Perth.

Last time I heard our CEO talk about the above topic we have an 11% lower cost base than TT

[BNEA320]

maybe TT wants to establish themselves on the tasman before the likes of Air Asia X & Cebu Pacific start flying it. Don't think Scoot will be permitted to, because tie up with SQ/VA/NZ.

[puff]

For those suggesting TT will take over DPS from east coast and the PER-HKT - there is a reason why JQ wasn't doing MEL/SYD/BNE-DPS direct with A320s, the 320 just doesn't have the legs of the 738 with 2 ton less fuel. It is very tight at times on the 738, some of those sectors are up to 6 and a half hours.

[BNEA320]

this thread is about TT flying the Tasman. Please stay on topic.


TSV/AKL anyone ?


MCY/AKL maybe in addition to some NZ flights ? If they work might become all NZ eventually.

[waren9]

airnz have done akl-mcy seasonally before

3 times weekly again by airnz from end of june by the looks

[BNEA320]

we said in addition to NZ MCY/AKL flights.


TT is a great test bed.


VA/NZ could test eg. CBR/AKL.


CBR is perfect market for TT as pent up demand due to TT & JQ being "banned" domestically from CBR by their masters.

[waren9]

maybe TT wants to establish themselves on the tasman before the likes of Air Asia X & Cebu Pacific start flying it. Don't think Scoot will be permitted to, because tie up with SQ/VA/NZ.

you know theres a virgin/air nz/tiger tie up, right?

[BNEA320]

yes which is why TT might take over some thin routes of NZ/VA like BNE/DUD/BNE if authorities let them.


or maybe TT will make AKL a base & operate some low yielding services to the islands inc some of the AKL/RAR, AKL/APW ETC.

[waren9]

are you in airline yield management? curious for a reference as to which routes are low?

thanks in advance

[BNEA320]

yes something like that. Yeh an entrepreneurial pilot. Scary.


It does make sense to expand your lowest cost operation & TT is certainly lower cost than VA.


JQ does international so why not TT ?


VA can expand where there's better yield. TT can take over some routes just like they have done domestically into OOL.

[waren9]

again, any references beyond your say so?

yes something like that

then why dont you make the suggestion to your boss and get the ball rolling? clearly the right thing to do

[BNEA320]

are you seriously suggesting that flights AKL to Pacific Islands are high yield ?


Some of those routes have to be underwritten by govts, using aid money.

[waren9]

a professional in a field something like yield mgmnt on a rumour network posing questions on (among others) tigers network to pilots who have no idea where there income comes from?

why do you bother?

[ozziekiwi]

Speaking of flying the Tasman - I see PAL are going to start a service in December MNL/CNS/AKL return 4 times a week in each direction.

Philippine Airlines launches Manila-Cairns-Auckland flights - Australian Business Traveller (http://www.ausbt.com.au/philippine-airlines-launches-manila-cairns-auckland-flights)

More competition and hopefully more cheap fares :=

[BNEA320]

+ Silk Air SIN/DRW/CNS


Presume they can sell domestic sector DRW/CNS as well in isolation

[Derfred]

Why would you presume that when they clearly can't until the Government changes policy currently under review?

Which has been discussed recently in a thread you participated in?'

Are you totally deranged? What a tool.

[BNEA320]

this maybe 1st airline allowed to sell domestic OZ sectors in northern OZ.

[cnsnz]

this maybe 1st airline allowed to sell domestic OZ sectors in northern OZ.
Wow I'm sure everyone will be excited at that prospect.

[wishiwasupthere]

BNEA320,

Serious question. Do you sit in front of your computer logged onto PPrune with your d:oh::oh:k in one hand and your other hand on a globe coming up with fanciful route combinations while you fantasize about being some sort of airline manager?

I think you need a hobby, unless being said pretend airline manager is your hobby?

[porch monkey]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, If these are such good ideas, where is YOUR money?

[BNEA320]

Porch have a bad day. Lighten up.


Just trying to ascertain where TT will be flying to out of AKL.

[27/09]

Just trying to ascertain where TT will be flying to out of AKL.
How about where they just flew in from :E

[Tidbinbilla]

With all these "XXX to fly to YYY" anyone would think this were the Professional Travel Agent/Passenger Rumour Network :ugh:

The only connection these kind of threads have with us as professional pilots is aeroplanes. It has little, if any connection with PILOTING.

*click*