Comanche 400?

[Sunfish]

An acquaintance told me on Friday night that his extended family owns Two "Eight cylinder" Piper singles (who and how I don't know), one of which is apparently in flyable condition on some property somewhere.

I presume this might be a Comanche 400. Anyone know anything about them?

How easy would it be for a new PPL to handle one? Comments?

[peterc005]

Piper PA-24 Comanche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-24_Comanche#Comanche_400)

Yep, powered by an I0-720.

Sounds like a rare and impractical aircraft to own. Must take a heap of rudder on takeoff to keep this thing balanced.

[Fantome]

The late Ernie Mills of Cressy in Tasmania's midlands had VH-EDM
Often he would fly to his essential oil (tea-tree) farm near Yeppoon
staging through Bourke northbound or southbound.
WTFIGO and I were based there with Maslings, 1967.
Once Ernie had the distinction of landing very late in the day at his
Cressy strip . . . right on top of a horse . Horse came off second best.
EDM needed some attention before Ernie flew her again.

EDM is still based there, owned and operated by a nephew of Ernie.

Ernie learned to fly in England in the mid 30s on an autogyro
at Hanworth (I think). One Gatenby imported one to Tasmania.

[Squawk7700]

I'd be more worried about the fuel usage that they may not be able to handle especially at full noise in the climb :{

There's two camps.... those that think that PPL's should start on a C150 and work their way up, and those that can't see a problem with students doing ab-initio in a Cirrus SR22. Unless you have definitive evidence to suggest that the latter is detrimental and more likely to end in disaster, then don't be worried about it.

Just a tip - I believe that your "acquaintance" has already been discussing this journey with other aviators already.

I assume you are talking about PYU and TOZ.

[Stationair8]

Like any airplane Sunfish, find a capable instructor who will spend some time with you on the aircraft systems, a few sessions in the training area, a cross country navex or two and down the track refresher training, and go forth and enjoy!

A few ppruners on this site have Pa-24/400 time.

EDM owners did his IFR rating in YMMB, the same time I did my IFR rating.

[Frank Arouet]

Hint: Look around Hay NSW, especially local NRMA agent who owned one and may still do. As for the IO 720, ask around Griffith NSW or anywhere for local AG operators who operate them. Not having flown one, I can't give any credible advice, but like everything else once the limitations are known and the handling done by the book these should be not many problems. Tales of the rear cylinders burning out usually come from those who have been mishandled. There are plenty of the engines around in quiet a few aircraft. I would say it's not an engine to experiment with. Rather costly I would imagine.

[tecman]

I haven't flown a 400 but spent many happy hours in a 260C, more or less straight after my PPL. It was quite a lot of aircraft for someone trained on a C150 but I had very thorough instructor and came to the PA24 without having heard the many old wives' tales about its operation. I found that it was a great aircraft, able to be flown by the book. Thirty years later I still rate it as one of the best aircraft I've flown.

In terms of conversion experience, the speed was quite an eye-opener but needing to stay ahead of the aircraft is common to all more advanced types.

I'm not sure the 400 represents any sort of sweet spot in aviation (lot of l/hr) but if you have a particular motivation or curiousity, it'd certainly be fun trying it out.

[PinkusDickus]

There's eight on the AU register.

CASA Register (http://casa-query.funnelback.com/search/search.cgi?collection=casa_aircraft_register&profile=_default&meta_v_sand=&meta_A=-allresults&meta_o_sand=PA-24-400&meta_m_sand=&meta_X_sand=&meta_r_sand=&meta_q_sand=&meta_xyear_sand=&meta_Y_sand=&num_ranks=10&Search=Search)

[Old Akro]

The only pair I know of owned by the one family is a Northern Victorian wine family. If this is the case the PPL who is intending to fly one is approaching it in a very sound, measured manner and being coached by two outstandingly capable instructors.

And at the end of the day its just an aeroplane, designed by mortals intended to be flown by mortals.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I presume this might be a Comanche 400. Anyone know anything about them?

Yup - they go like a cut cat!

How easy would it be for a new PPL to handle one? Comments?

Impossible! Right up there with the Space Shuttle. :E

Just kidding! If you can handle a C210, Bo, Comanch with confidence, you should be OK in the PA24/400.

Would you believe that the Townsville refueller actually owned one? :ooh:

Dr :8

PS: If you know one that needs to be flown - I am available. Been on my bucket list for years!

[zac21]

Wally Graham, a sapphire miner from Inverell had one in the early 70's.

With 4 men on both wingtips, large wheel chocks and brakes locked she jumped the chocks during a full power run-up at Archerfield.

P2-WDL would remember that Comanche as well, beautifully built machines.

[uncle8]

"Once Ernie had the distinction of landing very late in the day at his
Cressy strip . . . right on top of a horse . Horse came off second best."

He was flying his C180 when this happened IIRC - forward vis not so good?

[Stationair8]

Join the line FTDK!

Did see a gentleman put on a very nice display in a Pa-24/400 at a social gathering of like minded aviation people.

[gassed budgie]

Classic GA, straight out of the sixties.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w378/Yanknbank/image.jpg1_zps4f0n3w0i.jpg

It just looks sort of right, doesn't it. And to those who think that an SR22 looks better, don't be silly.

Had a go at VH-PY(something) in Bendigo around 1979/80. Like **** out of a shanghai, took me half a circut to catch up with it.

[triadic]

Have quite a few hours on the -400. It went very well, but the hardest part was doing a hot start. If you did not get it going in the first one or two tries, you were in for a wait as the next try or two would suck the battery dry! (ground power was always a good option and some cables in the boot would be a good idea)

Flinders Island Airways had one back in the 60's and 70's (VH-FOE) and it did the paper run from MB to Mildura with the Herald every week day. MIA was the only place it shut down for fuel. The other stops the engine was left running.

I did some IFR training in one with the owner back in the 70's and I recall it was quite a handful for someone with limited experience. Not a lot of room for maps etc., so you had to plan your trip and the placement of the charts etc very well.

Handling wise it was good, but the effect of the large engine was always there during the flare. Cant remember the fuel burn, but recall somewhere between 15 and 18 gph in those days (??).

[Australopithecus]

I have about 15 hours on a -400 back in...1973! I was nineteen, and the flying school I worked for had one on lease-back. I was the only fool to hire it because it cost a whopping $4 more an hour to hire than the C-182. ($22.50 from memory)

15 years later I owned a Twin Commanche, but wished that it was a -400. The -400s were more money back then.

The aircraft is hotter, has more mass (doesn't glide so well) and is a bit more tempermental with cylinder cooling, but it isn't too difficult. It was designed and built for the low time doctor market back in the 60's. Looking at the illustration makes me realise how much of a throw back it is. Me too I guess.

[aldee]

And a soundtrack to match its good looks:D

[Jabawocky]

150L+ on take off :} :ok:

No replacement for displacement they say! :D

[PA39]

Have a few hours on the poor mans mustang. I must admit that I am biased toward ANY Comanche however the IO720 engines are thirsty and unreliable. Have been advised engine parts pretty scarce and expensive now. Fuel against speed they are pretty uneconomical. They can be a brute but ya gotta love the 400's!! They used to have a chapter dedicated to the 400's years ago in the ICS (Int'l Comanche Society).

Roy Sneesby is the Comanche king at Murwillumbah and he can set you straight on them if you wish to call him. I can DM his contact details if you cant find them or look up Tweed Aircraft Services and talk to Mal Bryant.

Good Luck

[27/09]

Have a few hours on the poor mans mustang.

Same wing section as a Mustang to I believe.

Fuel against speed they are pretty uneconomical. I've also been told that at the same speed as a 250/260 they burn the same amount of fuel, but when you want to go faster you can.

I read somewhere the 400 was Piper answer to turbo charging. Put in a big donk that still allows enough power up high for good performance. Good TAS without the expense/complication of a turbo.

[Dora-9]

I've also been told that at the same speed as a 250/260 they burn the same amount of fuel, but when you want to go faster you can.
No, not much faster at all, maybe 5-10 knots. Climbed like a rocket though, and some major pitch changes with power changes (but not much more rudder needed) as I recall. I'd support triadic's comments about hot starts - they could be a real bugger. I saw a PPL set fire to one at Guildford once attempting this.

And I had an engine failure in one - I "blew a pot" during the run-up (good time/place I guess...).

All in all, the 260C was a much sweeter aeroplane.

[Jabawocky]

Dora :ok:

You are correct. all that extra speed comes at a considerable HP requirement. And yes the IO-540 version is the sweet spot. :ok:

;)

[27/09]

All in all, the 260C was a much sweeter aeroplane.

I'd go a far as saying possibly one of the best light singles ever built.

[greybeard]

Hey Dora, unless there were two at Guildford, I was the Instructor in that start fire.
Student would NOT take advice, saw the puff of flame, let go the starter, put his foot on my N#&$ on the way out, passed me at the speed of light.

Fire went out, consumed the air cleaner, fire crew couldn't find us as there was no longer a fire.

I did a couple of charters in that one, AMI, around April '67

:ok:

[prospector]

but recall somewhere between 15 and 18 gph in those days (??).

Kept a record of fuel flows on a ferry from Lord Howe to Palmerston North, the IO720's installed in QueenAir VH AEQ were returning 14.2 port and 14.5 gph stbd at FL170. The aircraft was then used on the Chathams Island run. The IO720's performed very well on this task.

[BEACH KING]

Bloody hell. What is going on here!
PPRune giving a warm glow, rather than a sense of impending doom of vicious anger!
Things are looking up!
I went for a circuit in a 400 at Coolangatta as a pax in a year I cannot remember at a Bonanza society function. The aircraft was immaculate and was a credit to it's owner (whose name also escapes my aged mind). Have quite a few hours in the the 260C, but still remember the impressive take-off performance of the 400 that day.

[Jabawocky]

It is the one time 10lb of sh!t in a 5lb bag actually works. :ok:

Beachie….Aged…..c'mon your 50th was only yesterday…..:}

[CHAIRMAN]

Like **** out of a shanghai
And I thought it was like **** off a shovel:D
Nothing beats cubes Jaba!

[LeadSled]

Folks,
For my two bob's worth, the Comanche 400 achieved a small increase in TAS for a very large increase in fuel flow, compare to a -260C, otherwise much the same as any Comanche 250/260.

I remember our -260C (first one in Australia- delivered across the pacific by a QF Captain who had not flown anything with less than four engines since his Lincoln conversion in the RAAF) with great affection, pity it got written of in Standard GA Accident Scenario No. 3

The 400, a good example of "hull speed" where the increase in the rate of knots is marginal, despite the extra HP.
Tootle pip!!

PS: If you are going to fly any of them, tight control of IAS on approach is essential to achieving something approximating the book landing field length (including factoring) ---- no carrying 10 kts for Mum and the kids.

[tecman]

Indeed. Approach at the low end of the book speeds, full flap with a proper flare. Tiny burst of power in the flare if you've slightly mis-judged it. It was frustrating to watch the +10 (or more!) kt, half flap, brigade drive them on in a 3 point touchdown. The aircraft will drop suddenly and shake the bones if you get it wrong and I can only assume that's why there were so many old wives' tales.

[Dora-9]

Greybeard! No, not you I don't think. I didn't think you ever flew for CFS?

AMI appears in my logbook a few times from December 1965 to February 1966.

As a background, CFS not only had a flying school and charter operation, but they also bought and sold aircraft. They had a constantly changing fleet of "trade-ins", which is how we acquired AMI. Our manager, the irascible A-Mac, never one to hide his feelings, had a real "set" against the Comanche 400. So when the hapless PPL set fire to it (adjacent to the MMA Bellman hangars at Perth Airport) he was first on the scene, got everyone out, made no effort to extinguish the fire but removed the fuel caps and stood well clear! The ensuing argument between him and the firemen was something to behold!

The PPL (initials KP, does this ring a bell?), a nice guy, was undeterred, as I subsequently endorsed him on the B55...

At the risk of (again) going OT, the "trade-ins" were available for staff use (for free, we didn't even have to pay for the fuel!!) - at the time we also had a B33 Debonair (about as under-powered as the 400 was over-powered) which was much preferred by one and all over the 400.

[Stationair8]

Did the 400 have the option of tip tanks?

[greybeard]

Dora, yes for a few months I was with CFS Jandakot, did my rating and then got the call from MMA may '67

Your fire was a different one, much more fun and less pain to my parts.

Cheers

:ok:

[Dora-9]

Sorry Greybeard, my memory ain't what it used to be!

I think AMI was the Comanche 400 that got itself written off in a forced landing at Adelaide Airport c.1979(?).

Another quirk of CFS' ever changing fleet of trade-ins was that a C.182 disappeared and nobody realized this for two months! The Perth Airport staff thought it was at Jandakot while the Jandakot staff thought it was at Perth. It was eventually located abandoned at Orange NSW, so someone got a free transcontinental flight...

[PA39]

Oklahoma to Missouri at 170kts 9000' in 1983. Wont get that out of a 260 B or C. I agree the 260C is a real mans aeroplane. I think Jim Conrad still holds the speed record for a 400 at 180+.

[Jabawocky]

Is that 180kts IAS or TAS?

[27/09]

I think Jim Conrad still holds the speed record for a 400 at 180+. Woulld that be Max Conrad?

[PA39]

TAS/CAS Jab. The IO720's seriously unreliable. BIG wallet is a pre requisite.

[PA39]

Ha ha Comanchie... Tetchy, overrated and a maintenance black hole. There's stuff around with a lot less than 400HP that will do better with wheels sticking out ....

Sure but we're talkin' 1964!!

[PA39]

FWIW Jimmy Hazelton bought Ernie Mills EDM out and most of the other (very few) 400's that came to Oz. Cant remember the number but there were not that many made.

[Stationair8]

What makes the IO-720 unreliable in the PA-24/400?

The same engine seems to do okay in the Excalibur Queenair.

[Virtually There]

Ha ha Comanchie... Tetchy, overrated and a maintenance black hole. There's stuff around with a lot less than 400HP that will do better with wheels sticking out ....

Sure but we're talkin' 1964!
Ah, but are they as quick, certified, can carry six adults with fuel (OK, four adults and two kids with the optional rear seat cushions . . .), operate out of bush strips, have as much shoulder room and are as solid/nice to fly while looking the part?

Not many aircraft combine all that for well under $100k these days. I haven't flown a 400, but the 260 is hard to beat as a budget alrounder. Even the 180s have a reputation for being nice to fly (with loads more room than a Mooney!).

[AussieO2]

My book says that Piper made 146 production 400 models., from c/n 26-3 to 26-148.

[27/09]

Ha ha Comanche... Tetchy, overrated and a maintenance black hole. There's stuff around with a lot less than 400HP that will do better with wheels sticking out ....

Any aircraft can be a maintenance "black hole".

What "Stuff" are you talking about? I'd be keen to see a list that has the speed, payload, range and versatility of the a Comanche that can land on many shorter grass strips.

The IO720's seriously unreliable. BIG wallet is a pre requisite.Whilst I no experience with the 400 Comanche I know of no major reliability issue with the IO720 providing like any engine they're maintained properly.

I suspect many are run at 65% power or less, probably close to 55% truth be known, the engine isn't working that hard. The engine should go to TBO without too many issues.

Sure at overhaul there's a bigger bill, but I would suspect no worse then two IO360's or some of the TSIO 540 variants.

[Super Cecil]

27/09
720's run on Ag work and properly maintained have a very good reputation. No trouble going to TBO and considerably beyond. They run 100% for at least half of their time.

[PA39]

The trouble with the 720's were similar to the little IO320's. Most were hangar queens and didn't get enough work hence the "rolled" camshafts etc. Cylinder cracking is another one. The old saying use it or lose it.
The Excalibur conversion on the Queenies usually flew long and often.

They were in the Pawnee (?) as well

[27/09]

SuperCecil

That was my understanding too with the ones used on Ag work.

My reference to 65% and 55% was for the ones in the 400 Comanche. I doubt most owners use too much power.

Yep used in the Pawnee Brave 375 and 400

[Super Cecil]

As well as 400 Air truk and fletcher

[BEACH KING]

I remember the first light aircraft that I had ever seen up close, was a Fletcher with a 720 spraying a crop on my mates farm. The ag pilot had the cowls off the thing at one point and explained the unique design of air cooled, slow revving, large cubic inch, high power aero engines.
The next light aircraft that I encountered (and my first ever flight) was a C210 taking us on a scenic flight. I recalled being nervous about the (likely) very cashed strapped owner and his tiny aircraft that only had a gutless 285hp 6 cylinder engine and not a 400hp V8 like the Fletcher!

[Lumps]

The aforementioned VH-EDM has crossed Bass Strait many times per year for 51 years with that woefully unreliable 720 out the front. And continues to do so. Someone should submit the -400 for ASEPTA

[Squawk7700]

This photo was taken in the EAA Museum at Oshkosh (apologies for the focus - it was very dark).

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/720.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/400-1.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/400-2.jpg

[Spotlight]

Do you still get 'Cherokee Back' in the PA-24.

[PA39]

Comanche's either single or twin are one of the most comfortable touring aircraft ever built.

[PA39]

The aforementioned VH-EDM has crossed Bass Strait many times per year for 51 years with that woefully unreliable 720 out the front. And continues to do so. Someone should submit the -400 for ASEPTA

And old Ernie should he still be with us would be the first to confirm how many times he held his heart in his mouth :) Gee I remember his flat batteries!! Trying to hand swing it and nearly pulling my arms out of their sockets. :) :)

[LeadSled]

Speaking of the -260C, on one occasion I went Bankstown Innesfail direct, the only reason it wasn't to Cairns direct is early morning fog in Bankstown, we ran out of last light.

Fuel consumption wise, 6-point EGT and LOP made such a difference to range.

That was back in the wonderful days when I only had an instrument rating, not a night VMC rating, so I couldn't re-file NVMC, and I couldn't file IFR, because most of the avionics were too new to have made it onto DCA approval lists, mere TSO wasn't nearly good enough. It was good enough to fly the Pacific IFR, but not in all-hallowed rarefied Australian air.

Not a lot has changed.

Tootle pip!!

[Lumps]

LeadSled, what did a 6 point EGT look like pre digital? Assuming talk of DCA etc means it was a while ago,, where there were six little gauges? 6 needles?

[cavortingcheetah]

ZS-DZZ
Dave Charlton, the racing driver who died a couple of years ago, had one based at Grand Central, Johannesburg (FAGC) when I was an instructor there many years ago. It was an enormously powerful machine, even at 5,300 ft airfield elevation + on a summer's day at 30c.
I seem to remember that he had a lot of trouble with the aircraft and it didn't have tip tanks which cramped the cruise range.

http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=178011&sid=3f0563f7938d0e7da7a44cc1abc3c321

[Garry Phelps]

Used to go flying with Ernie in the 70’s at a property called ‘Lambrook’ near Gunnedah for annual flyin events. Fell in love with the 400 and all these years later have aquired one from the states. It will be the 10th one on the Australian register with the rego VH-CDC. She’s in the paint shop at Bankstown at the moment being brought back to pristine condition.Long live the 400! gp.The aforementioned VH-EDM has crossed Bass Strait many times per year for 51 years with that woefully unreliable 720 out the front. And continues to do so. Someone should submit the -400 for ASEPTA

And old Ernie should he still be with us would be the first to confirm how many times he held his heart in his mouth :) Gee I remember his flat batteries!! Trying to hand swing it and nearly pulling my arms out of their sockets. :) :)
u

[Peter Fanelli]

I think AMI was the Comanche 400 that got itself written off in a forced landing at Adelaide Airport c.1979(?).



If you're referring to the one that didn't quite make it over the fence and landed among the approach lights for RWY 23 that was VH-BOO.

[machtuk]

:)Haven't seen a 400 in a coons age!
id hate to imagine how much a 720 would cost to overhaul?
Used to operate a pair of them on a single airframe, the FF gauge needles went hard over on T/off, glad I wasn't paying for the gas! :)

[On eyre]

If you're referring to the one that didn't quite make it over the fence and landed among the approach lights for RWY 23 that was VH-BOO.

And AMI is sitting in a hangar at Port Lincoln. Hasn’t flown for many a long year. 😳

[Dora-9]

If you're referring to the one that didn't quite make it over the fence and landed among the approach lights for RWY 23 that was VH-BOO.


Thanks Peter. Apparently had a rough-running engine, but positioned himself so high that he deemed that he couldn't get in off a straight-in approach and then the engine failed during the subsequent circuit. The details came to me via the owner's daughter, an Ansett FA.

[Offchocks]

Back in the early 70s I went for a flight as a passenger in a black Comanche 400 out of Parafield. Having only flown the likes of 172s and PA28s I was gob smacked at the performance, what a lovely aeroplane and wonder if it still survives today.

[mates rates]

I seem to remember that the 400 was difficult to start when the engine was hot.Which also created a battery problem,or was the battery the problem?But the 260c was a beautiful aeroplane.I flew CVY which I think was owned by the Premier of NSW Tom Lewis at the time.

[Global Aviator]

Never flew it but loved the look.

Now could you re engine with - https://eps.aero/the-eps-engine/ ?

Probably not much point or would it be easy and become and experimental???

[Peter Fanelli]

LeadSled, what did a 6 point EGT look like pre digital? Assuming talk of DCA etc means it was a while ago,, where there were six little gauges? 6 needles?
It looked like a single cylinder EGT with a switch. You looked at one cyliner at a time.
Like this
https://buy-ei.com/portfolio/e-6/

[megan]

Always loved the Comanche breed looks. The only ride I ever had was 18th June 1960 in the first imported into the country. In use at the time to deliver newspapers around SA. Pic courtesy of Geoff Goodall's site.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x540/pa24_tlw_ad_5_62kkk_e445c682268d91aff218e17e7d719bb1de4727c9 .jpg

[Clinton McKenzie]

A bunch of friends and I flew a 260-C around Australia in 1988. AZK. Looks like she’s still on the register. Lovely aircraft.

[halas]

Recall a doctor in Hamilton, Western Victoria had a 400 back in the late 80's.

Got pissed with a mate one stormy night and they went for a spin. Literally and vertically. Deep hole.

halas

[Big Pistons Forever]

I seem to remember that the 400 was difficult to start when the engine was hot.Which also created a battery problem,or was the battery the problem?But the 260c was a beautiful aeroplane.I flew CVY which I think was owned by the Premier of NSW Tom Lewis at the time.


The hot start problem was due to the fact the airplane had the same 12v electrical system and battery as the 250. There was not a lot of capacity so if you blew the hot start and hat to crank a flooded engine it would poop out before it started. The solution was a STC'd 2nd battery and a 24 volt starter. When the starter was engaged the batteries would go to series and you had lots of starting torque.

I have a few hours in one. The heavy engine made it a bit of truck especially in the landing flare but as a cruiser it was outstanding. You could get to a mid teens altitude quickly and with the prop pulled back it was turbine smooth.

The story I heard was that Piper wanted to give the Comanche the ability to cruise high in order to have an advantage over the Bonanza, but turbocharging for the direct drive flat 6 engines wasn't fully developed so they decided to just go with a huge normally aspirated engine which even at 50 % available horsepower at altitude still had plenty of power left to let the airplane step out. The introduction of the Continental turbocharged TSIO 520 in 1965 pretty much killed this airplane.

Still there is no replacement for displacement. I still remember one takeoff with 2 up and 1/3 tanks on a cold day. You just about swallowed your bubble gum when you put the hammer down on that puppy in those conditions :cool:

[lonkmu]

ZS-DZZ
Dave Charlton, the racing driver who died a couple of years ago, had one based at Grand Central, Johannesburg (FAGC) when I was an instructor there many years ago. It was an enormously powerful machine, even at 5,300 ft airfield elevation + on a summer's day at 30c.
I seem to remember that he had a lot of trouble with the aircraft and it didn't have tip tanks which cramped the cruise range.

http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=178011&sid=3f0563f7938d0e7da7a44cc1abc3c321

Dave was a very good friend of my uncles (Barry Harrison) who had a beachfront property at Shelly Beach. Dave and Barry would often fly down from Grand Central in the 400 on a Saturday afternoon and head out to sea then turn and head straight for the house at wave height and flat out. A very loud climb out over the house then head to Margate. That was the signal for Barry's wife to get in the car and fetch them from the airport.. Great memories as a 10 year old!

[Amiri01]

A friend of mine has a Commanche 400, fully restored and sitting in primer waiting to be painted and reassembled. It’s been like that for a while now. The engine has been fully overhauled and is also waiting to be reassembled at the engine shop so that the new time starts from the date of reassembly. The owner loves the aircraft and has the vision to complete the restoration, but he may be interested to pass it on to someone that has the drive to complete the restoration. It’s just paint, reassemble the airframe, have the engine reassembled and fitted and all systems hooked up. PM me if you are seriously interested and I’ll put you in touch with the owner.