IFR renewal ILS at Cairns

[Flopt]

Loaned the M20j to FTDK for a couple of weeks to do his IFR renewal and a few other things ...Just got a bill from Cairns Airport for $385.00 !!!!!!....did his renewal with Bob from Innisfail...would have spent 15mins in Cairns airspace ...and they reckon $385.00 is a fair price!!!!!!!! didn't even touch the bitumen!!!!


No wonder GA is on it's knees.....


The most disgraceful 'gouging' I have come across in 33yrs of flying!!!


I pity the poor fools who have the avgas Lease...would have cost him $400.00 just to land and taxi in for a top up !!!!


Flopt

[gerry111]

Looking at their charges for ADHOC and NON-RPT Operations (Domestic and International aprons) you could pay a fortune just to park there.


Parking is free for up to six hours. Beyond that, it is $610 per calendar day or part of... :eek:

[Jabawocky]

FARRRRRRRRKKKKKKK!!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek:

There is one destination off my list. I wonder if anyone in the Cairns tourism or business "industry associations" have ever thought about this and done anything about it.

If this is user pays do the airlines get charged that much per POB?

[topdrop]

Used to be hard to find a park on the GA lines. Cairns airport increased the parking charges so much, that most of the aircraft now park at Mareeba and only come into Cairns to drop off or pick up pax.
I understand the charges for a lease renewal for the Aero Club increased so much that they will not be renewing at the end of the year and most of their training will be at Mareeba. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[feetonthedash]

I hear that lease holders on the airport are being gouged by increases so much that they are going to go straight to the Queensland State Government to stop this abuse.
:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:
The airport lease it from the government apparently

[27/09]

Who owns the ILS? Cairns airport or ASA?

If it's ASA, I guess it is then you'll have paid via any airways fees..

What Cairns Airport services were actually used?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

One might reasonably expect a kiss when being screwed - but not at YBCS!

$385 for an pilot intercept of the 15 ILS with a missed approach from the minima (all in VMC conditions) at 11:00 (ie out of the peak traffic period) for an IR renewal - what the !@#$!

I think the last renewal (early 2014) was maybe $60 fee for the ILS/missed appr. - can't say I have any complaints about that .............but, its not as though the frigging thing was turned on just for me.

Can anyone tell me where this extortion is promulgated to the unsuspecting punters? I can't find it anywhere.

I think this one is going to have to be tested in court - I'll dust off my wig! :E

Dr :8

PS: I have been told that if you change your registered operator details to look like a business/company, this extortion goes away - it specifically targets private ops!

[zac21]

http://www.cairnsairport.com.au/japan/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/04/Airport-Charges-01-February-2014.pdf
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[dhavillandpilot]

I didn't believe it until I saw the web site.

As someone who operates Air Tours into Cairns guess what our company will now do.

Drop off in Cairns and go to Mareeba to park the aircraft. Even it ends up costing me the same in dollars for the extra flying on principle I won't be a party to this extortion.

Perhaps I may even change my tour itineraries to go into Townsville instead.

I fear this is just the start of what will become a trend.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

OK, missed this in the Cairns Airport GA charges:

The following discounts and surcharges will apply to all General Aviation landings:

0800-100 0800 - 1000nd 1400-1600: 15% discount

0300-0500 and 2100-2300 5% surcharge

2301-0259: 10% surcharge

1001-1359: $350.00 minimum charge for all recreational aircraft (i)
(i) Recreational aircraft are deemed to be aircraft not utilised for commercial purposes.I guess that settles it - the aircarft is only used to facilitate commercial activities!

I doubt that a court will agree that a missed approach off the ILS constitutes a landing!

Tell'm to get knotted Floppy! :ok:

Dr :8

[The name is Porter]

It'd be awesome if you told them to "go fark themselves" stuffed if I'd pay it!

[Trent 972]

Flopt or FTDK. Those time periods for charges. Are they 'Local Time' or 'UTC'?
Seems to me it doesn't say. :confused:
Obviously all aviation time should be stated in UTC, unless specifically notated as local.
An ILS without a landing at 0100Z! Is an entirely different charge.

[27/09]

Is there a possibility that they've assumed you've landed because you did the ILS and not considered the fact you carried out a missed approach? If they knew what actually happened they would have sent the account?

While their charges for GA are daylight robbery (Dick Turpin would be proud of them) perhaps they should be given the benefit of the doubt meantime.

I don't see how for the life of me any airport could justify a charge in these circumstances. As I see it Cairns Airport didn't provide any service. Also it's not like this aircraft, by flying the ILS, deprived them of the opportunity to derive income from another aircraft.

I wouldn't be paying, that's for sure, but before I made too much of a fuss I'd contact them suggesting perhaps there was some sort of mistake.

[Jabawocky]

PS: I have been told that if you change your registered operator details to look like a business/company, this extortion goes away - it specifically targets private ops!


Yeah and if you have a private aeroplane registered to a company, you get slugged in many other places that do not charge PVT ops.

You can't win :sad:

[aroa]

Ms Anna Blight(on the landscape) sold the Cairns airport on the excuse of funding a new Cairns Base Hospital away from the coast. See it yet?

Apart from the incredibly dumb maths to flog off an asset that laid a good golden egg every year for the Govt coffers...the new owners just stuffed the goose to lay a bloody great golden egg.
They want as much pvt/ GA off the airfield for malls, motels and etc..its all about the unholy dollar, morals dont come into it.
But that's monopoly big business for you.

I'd say the Flopty bill was,... that a landing was made , so ...
dont pay...advise them accordingly, express your anger in no uncertain terms that their greed is having a detrimental effect on Cairns tourism, etc
Like the bodgy false stuff that comes on Avdata "bills":mad:

The N. Q. Aero Club resident for 67 years has to vacate because of corporate greed.

Governments and GA ? Que? Hulooooo! :mad: :mad:

[uncle8]

I think that you can negotiate this charge right down.
It looks erroneous in that you didn't land and also, yours was a business flight - you had to borrow your friend's private aircraft because the business aircraft was u/s or not available.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Interesting business model - send an invoice when you think someone may have used your service! :confused:

Dr :8

[Duck Pilot]

That's robbery, pity the ILS renewal wasn't done in an approved sim.

[jas24zzk]

It's on Page 3

Tech Stop / Transit Aircraft

 A landing charge of $5.89 per tonne MTOW will apply.
 A minimum charge of $394 will apply.
 Other charges will apply depending on aircraft size, hours of operation and services provided.

In your operation, I would envisage that you were considered Transit, and yes I agree it to be erroneous
Therefore, Cairns Airport is charging you for airspace, something I would think they have no authority to do. Albeit ASA may have contracted them to manage airspace charges (just throwing it up there) but for some reason called a brain, i highly doubt it.

[Duck Pilot]

If you didn't touch the ground, no fees apart for the Airservices IFR charges which is legitimate.

I would be questioning them first before paying the alleged charge, and if they demand it consider legal advise - if it's worth it. The headache alone would entice me to pay it.....

It's really sad that we have to endure this rubbish.

[jas24zzk]

The headache alone would entice me to pay it.....

And that is why they do it!

You can almost guarantee the moment this charge is challenged, they will waive it 'in good faith'

It needs to be challenged properly in a court of law, so that other people who have decided the headache was too much may be re-imbursed.

In my prior post on this, I was trying to infer that the person writing the invoices considered airborne only transit incurred the charge as well as groundbased transit.

This person is either trying to make bonus, or has an ill-concieved view that airborne or ground based, a transit charge applies.

[Capt Fathom]

There are different charges for GA vs aircraft that will use the Domestic / International Aprons.

For GA, the fees are on page 4.

[topdrop]

I have heard of a few locals who have changed their registration details to make it look like it is operated as a commercial flight to avoid those fees between 10 and 2.

[j-mo]

It's on Page 3

Quote:
Tech Stop / Transit Aircraft

 A landing charge of $5.89 per tonne MTOW will apply.
 A minimum charge of $394 will apply.
 Other charges will apply depending on aircraft size, hours of operation and services provided.
In your operation, I would envisage that you were considered Transit, and yes I agree it to be erroneous
Therefore, Cairns Airport is charging you for airspace, something I would think they have no authority to do. Albeit ASA may have contracted them to manage airspace charges (just throwing it up there) but for some reason called a brain, i highly doubt it.

Having a look at http://www.cairnsairport.com.au/japan/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/04/Airport-Charges-01-February-2014.pdf The $394 charge etc is for aircraft using the International / Domestic aprons only - not GA as is listed in the section below that, and I would assume that by 'transit' they do not mean aircraft transiting the airspace, which I assume would be an ASA only charge, but that by transit they mean an aircraft stopping for an hour or so requiring apron services (Larger jet etc needing marshaling, toilet truck, stairs) stopping for a fuel/customs stop or similar.

[CASAweary]

I have been flying in this region for 15 years. I have never seen such a poorly mismanaged aeronautical airport operation as what Cairns has become in the past 2 years. What CAsA hasnt been able to do to finish of GA for good the clowns at Cairns airport (i mean Cairns aiRORT) are doing. I've been forced to relocate to Mareeba and not by choice (and nothing against Mareba either) and I have lost money and business becuase of it. The ACCC needs to act. Cairns airport are simply making the aeronautical charges so high that they are pushing us out. Which is handy for them as they plan to turn the old GA location into a shopping precinct and making more mega dollars. So while airport management and CEO (poor one at that) come to work in their Mercedes Benz's we all get screwed and sent to the Tablelands. What's worse is that the Cairns airport CEO is so tight that his PA told us that 2 years ago at Christmas he put in an expense receipt for $2 which was what it cost for him to park at the party location. And once she told us that he wouldnt take his precious Merc to an offsite meeting because the round trip was about 100 km's and he didn't want to add wear and tear to his tyres which cost $4000 for the lot. Also he and his so-called managers regularly indulge in $400 lunches and piss all that money away while we can't fly locally for a living. What a pathetic tightar#e, and that my fellow aviators is what we are dealing with here. No sadly our beautiful northern region has been financially raped by this CEO Scottsman and friends, all for the lining of his pocket and JP Morgans pocket. And dont forget, he also took our GA RWY away from us, and coincidentally that old RWY area is scheduled in the masterplan to become a new GA area which will charged at some of the highest rates in the Australia.
Scum. Why won't old mate Entcsh campaign against this act of bastardry? Why won't other local operators stand up to these clowns and tell the community how they are being disadvantaged by this gouging as it damges the overall economy, not just individual operators? Maybe we can all chip in $2 and buy this tool a ticket back to Scotland or whatever rock he crawled out from under?
I'm over it. Signing off

[TwoFiftyBelowTen]

Parking $610 a day?
What does the Belfast owe them now then?

[LeadSled]

What does the Belfast owe them now then?

They own the Belfast by know. It will be sad, but it will be chopped up for scrap, and such a rare aircraft, too, the last of only ten or so ever built.

Tootle pip!!

[gerry111]

Unfortunately LeadSled, they'd not be the first aerodrome owner or operator to have absolutely no regard for aviation history in Australia. Apparently it's all about big bucks these days. :sad:

[bushpig]

Unfortunately this started back in the 80's but was no where near as bad then. I know a cattle station manager who did almost all his business in the Cairns area until fees started going up. He moved much of his extensive business requirements to Mareeba way back then.
There used to be several "pie vans" that were kept viable by the very active GA side of Cairns airport. Not to mention things like Snap On Tool businesses, kiosks etc before you even look at general business the airport attracts to Cairns from people on the Cape.
Well, there is a good regular bus service to Cairns from Mareeba that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. There are reasonably priced hire car businesses in Mareeba before you even look at the larger Australia wide hire car businesses which are in Mareeba as well. It is a pleasnant and not very long drive if you really do need to go to Cairns.
In general doing trade in Mareeba, from my personal experience, is lower cost than Cairns. My personal experience includes building my own houses a few years ago and obtaining all materials and required "Tradies" in Mareeba rather than Cairns for that reason. In fact other than to do a renewal that requires a 3D approach there is not much reason to go there these days.
I have no vested interest in Mareeba and in fact live in the Brisbane area for work at the moment and have for a while but I do know the area well over several decades. I figure "Cairns" in many way has very much shot itself in the foot.
The lovely tropical ambience, architecture, NQ people that was once the attraction that developers etc exploited for the dollar has largely been destroyed by that development often in a very exploitive manner. Not by all, but that original appeal is generally no longer there! Many of the laid back NQ characters moved to the"Tablelands" themselves for these same reasons.
Cairns Airport itself was a vibrant and socially active fun place to work. I hive of active businesses of many types not just direct Charter and aircraft.
Alas it is no longer, it has been very much throttled.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Well, there is a good regular bus service to Cairns from Mareeba that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. There are reasonably priced hire car businesses in Mareeba before you even look at the larger Australia wide hire car businesses which are in Mareeba as well. It is a pleasnant and not very long drive if you really do need to go to Cairns.

Yes, its the new Aussie GA business model!

You hangar your aeroplane 100km from where you live cause your local aerodrome does not want anything to do with GA - say in my case Ayr or Ingham rather than Townsville - then when you want to go to Cairns for business or pleasure you fly to Mareeba, hire a car and drive 100 km to Cairns. Reverse the process when you want to go home!

Almost makes you glad to be in the twilight of your flying career!

Dr :8

[KRviator]

Parking $610 a day? I calculated an hour of circuits at Warnervale at over $600 earlier this year in the RV9. $610 for parking? Cheap by comparison!