East Coast QLD

[pilotboy007]

Hey all. Looking at going up north again. Can anyone tell me who the operators are these days and their minimum requirements?
I know the following (please fill in the blanks):
CNS
Hinterland
Westwing
East air
Daintree
Skydivers

TSV
Westwing
Bluewater (know nothing about them)

PPP/Airlie beach

MKY

ROK

GLT

Bundaberg

Hervey Bay
Air Fraser Island

And info appreciated

[Advs]

What have you got?

[pilotboy007]

CIR all approaches with frozen ATPL. 1050 total with 400+ multi command

[hestonfysh]

Maybe a bit of give for a bit of take might be in order here pilotboy.

[pilotboy007]

I don't follow...

[Fantome]

give and take means finding a balance between your needs, expectations and those of your employer. . It also means giving a lot of thought to how you want to come across. First impressions are the crux of the exercise when wanting the ear of the boss man or chief pilot.

if I were job hunting I would be doing my own homework to find
every possible source of information concerning the operators, by
the internet, by ringing them and then rocking up without barging in
flashing the big watch and other endowments. Begin by being the quiet observer. Do this by watching the way they conduct their business, by seeing how the planes look, and how the staff go about their daily business.

The rest depends on good luck and being in the right place at the right time.

[pilotboy007]

Thanks for the tip. No one has ever said that one before

[MadMadMike]

Frozen ATPL:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[puff]

Do yourself a favour and say you have a CPL with ATPL subjects...

[pilotboy007]

Righto. But just out of interest what's wrong with saying frozen ATPL? I know it's not an official term but everyone knows what it means.....

[Fuel-Off]

Because, my young Padawan, saying terms like that to prospective employers demonstrates your ignorance and naïvtivity about what is or isn't an industry qualification.

Frozen ATPL is a wank term adopted by flight schools in Australia as a marketing tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Fantome]

every day I marvel at the quality of SOME of the advice newbies and others
can get just for the asking. It can take some time before you can sense who has the good oil and who is full of hot air. One way to assess a poster's bona fides is to read back through previous posts by him or her.
There's no doubt at all that some PPRuNers are expert in their field.

Compared with ' the good old days' it can be a brilliant resource, but one that should never be taken for granted. Keep your eyes wide open all the time. And always be grateful for services rendered. As my apple-cheeked old grannie used to warble - "Courtesy is catching .. and so is gonorrhea."

[Fantome]

Tho' the OP is concerned primarily to find work, there are other things an aspiring pilot should be doing in his spare time to broaden his appreciation of the skies we are so fortunate to take to. And the wonderful people who over many years have made it possible. The late Ossie Osgood, a revered charter operator from Darwin, had a mountain of good sense to impart to those pilots fortunate enough to be taken on to work for him.

He was big on getting his pilots to read beyond the manuals.

Here, going back, a few relevant posts on the subject -

Vale E.C. "Ossie" Osgood OAM

To all old Arnhem Pilots and other top enders,

Ossie passed away on Saturday morning in the Darwin Hospital after a long and typically stubborn fight against multiple illnesses,
including the amputation of both legs.
Ossie was a genuine pioneer after WW2 flying Tiger Moths crop dusting in Western Australia before moving up to the TopEnd. He flew a wide variety of aircraft including Catalinas, Dragon Rapides and Percival Proctors. He also was instrumental in bringing new American equipment into Australia such as the first Baron.
When he lost his licence on medical grounds in 1994 he had accrued in excess of 33000 hours in his logbook.
At times Ossie was quite volatile and was often quite eccentric but at the same time kindhearted. I well remember the time a friend's pay had been stolen by one of our indigenous passengers{they were nearly all indigenous}. Ossie went straight to the cash register and repaid him as soon as he found out.
He also had an immense dislike of bureaucracy, especially CASA,
which persisted until he died, although he often quite liked the FOIs he dealt with.
There are Arnhem pilots flying for Airlines all over the world now who progressed their careers with Ossie and I know this made him proud.
Ossie's family will be holding a ceremony at Darwin Funeral Services at 10am on Thursday, after which he will be interred at Thorak Regional Cemetery next to his beloved wife Shirley.

Thanks Ossie,

The Baron
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIRSPACE ALPHA -
I commend to you the book “Beyond the Blue Horizon” by Alexander Frater. (Only available these days as an e-book I’m afraid). In 1983 Frater decided to replicate using modern airlines the old Imperial Airways route from London to Brisbane that was the 1930’s service. His journey variously took him through Egypt, Iraq, the Middle East and Pakistan- where he met an Air New Zealand F27 crew on detachment to the Oman air force.

The final chapters cover his route from Darwin to Brisbane. He flies in a Tillair Cessna 421 (“The Conquest is crook today mate”) and has lunch with Ossie Osgood of Arnhem Air Charter.

Apropos the way we were here is a section from his evening flight from Townsville to Brisbane on the Ansett B727:

Dinner was roast lamb, carrots, broccoli and potatoes, served with a quarter bottle of classie Aussie claret. The moonless Pacific turned from pearl grey to black, the sky to the west over Australia from an exuberant swirl of orange and plum to a faint luminous smudge, like the glow from live embers.
I sat immediately behind First Class and the voices, fuelled by free liquor, grew more boisterous, the laughter less restrained until it sounded as if an impromptu party was being thrown in the forward cabin.

I saw reflected in the dark window a first class meal being demolished by a sinewy brown arm with its sleeve rolled up and gold Rolex Oyster on the wrist. It worked its way through a giant chunk of pate encased in pastry and a pound or two of beef. Periodically the small hand of the stewardess stole into the window to refill his wine glass. He and his neighbour were conversing noisily about the State Mangroves Board and the butt of their jokes was an official referred to as the Commissioner of Mangroves. Could this be true? If so these two held the commissioner in very low esteem.
END OF QUOTE

I wasn’t in Australia at the time- in fact I was sitting on by arse in Nigeria trying not to get killed- but this to me evokes a time many talk about- the heyday of Australian airline service and of course some of the customers who used them.


BEYOND THE BLUE HORIZON

An outstanding read indeed. The bits about his early experiences in the Qantas Short Class C Empire boats between Brisbane and Fiji are brilliant. Then late in the book when flying his retrace through Queensland he sits next to a female passenger who had a silver miniature on a bracelet of the very same flying boat that he knew in his childhood. 'Coriolanus' , one of the C Class.

Also memorable was the advice he had from Ossie Osgood as to how Ossie would insist on his pilots reading a few recommended texts , all to do with the early days and the lore that past pilots wrote about tellingly.

e.g. Ernest Gann, Ann Welch ('Accidents Happen') , Mac Job, Lindbergh, Chichester. . . the list is a long one.

[Tinstaafl]

Pilotboy, did you ever describe your previous licences as:

Frozen Class A driver's licence, when all you had done was pass the road rules exam?
Frozen PPL, when what you had a was an SPL + PPL theory pass?
Frozen CPL, when what you had a was a PPL + CPL theory pass?
Frozen CIR, when what you had was a PPL or CPL + CIR theory pass?
Frozen Gr 3, when what you had was a CPL + a PMI pass?

See the pattern?

Accuracy is generally regarded as a 'good thing' in this industry. Many prospective employers take a dim view of 'marketing hype' ie claiming something you're not, or not quite. Who knows what else you might also exaggerate about yourself, your skills, and your experience?

As for 'Frozen ATPL', you'd be a lot closer to the truth if you called it a Frozen CPL - because that's all it will ever be until, and unless, you meet & pass the rest of the licence's requirements.

[ACMS]

Blimey you lot are picky. I've heard the term Frozen ATPL used by Qantas as well. It's a common term used.

Any employer that knows his stuff would be well aware of what it means.

Offer some constructive advice to the new fella.

[m.r.a.z.23]

Frozen ATPL was probably a more legitimate term when it was purely an hour building exercise to get the licence (your licence was "frozen" pending you getting the required hours).

Now that there's the Flight Test requirement it shifts it into just another level of licence so the term is less accurate.

[pilotboy007]

So now that we've cleared the air over frozen ATPLs back to my original question. What operators are still around along the coast up to cairns and are there any I should stay away from?

[Mach E Avelli]

Your chances of landing a job in GA are inversely proportional to the desirability of location, and popularity of employer.
If you restrict yourself to Queensland coastal towns you will find more competition than if you head further west into less attractive places.
Some of the lesser known employers can actually be better to work with, once you show them that you are willing to put up with whatever grubby camp or deadend town they send you to.
But of course if you have 'been there done that' already, maybe you now feel it's your turn for a nice coastal gig? Good luck then, but while you are waiting, someone else is racking up those all-important hours somewhere else.

Some pilots really miss out because they limit where they are prepared to work.

[pilotboy007]

I'm restarting this thread as my last attempt was hijacked by comments mostly steering away from the topic at hand. So my situation is I've done my time up North in the so called "undesirable locations" got a few hours under my belt and want to take the next step and go up north again, this time up the east coast of qld. (Therefore I do not need to be lectured about how I'm limiting myself by going the up qld coast)
Can anyone tell me who the operators are these days and their minimum requirements?
I know the following (please fill in the blanks):
CNS
Hinterland
Westwing
East air
Daintree
Skydivers

TSV
Westwing
Bluewater (know nothing about them)

PPP/Airlie beach
GSL Aviation

MKY

ROK

GLT
Air Charter CQ

Bundaberg

Hervey Bay
Air Fraser Island

And info appreciated, regarding operators and anyone of them I should stay away from. Cheers

[Capt Fathom]

Have you tried searching the Yellow Pages?
Also the CASA Aircraft Register has a very good search engine. Type in the name of a town, and it shows you who/what operates there!
Simple!

[Mach E Avelli]

Pilot boy, no one was lecturing you about how you need to do the hard yards, anymore than anyone was lecturing you about the non-existence of frozen licences. On Pprune it is usual for threads to get 'hijacked' and generally drift off subject. In these recurring 'help me find a job' threads there is usually some good advice to be had from people who, for all you know, may actually have some background in the recruiting process.
But seeing as you only want info and not career advice, here is what I know about West Wing.
They generally want 2000 hours and 500 multi. But you already know that because you can visit a website just as easily as I can, hey? They sometimes make exceptions - again on their website. So far I have told you nothing you did not know.
What I do know from talking to people working there:
They pay at least the Award, better if they value you.
They appear to be financially secure (but as with all aviation, who really knows?).
They do all required training, with no short cuts.
Their aircraft are reliable, but well worn with some very high time airframes in the fleet.
They don't expect you to fly without proper fuel reserves, do not overload or bust duty limits, but they do operate right to the max on all counts.
They do carry defects, and sometimes several, just like most GA operators.
They meet contract requirements with their customers.
But herein lies the rub.
If you want a start, you will start in Mt ISA and wait your turn for a coastal base. This can take quite a long time. They don't want to piss off those already on the waiting list for a move.

[pilotboy007]

mach-e-avelli
I never said I wouldn't take advice. I've always taken on board good advice including the advice given to me in the last thread. However when I see several other people comment on the same thing without being constructive it gets really frustrating, especially when out of all the comments not a single one answered my question. If you noticed there were a couple of comments that did nothing other than to criticise the fact that I said "Frozen ATPL" and had no explanation to go along with it. Only one person took the time to give me good advice with reasoning, so yes I took that on board and have taken the word "frozen" off my cv. Then you come along and go off on another tangent about something I already know and have been through. So by this stage I've had several comments made on my thread and even though there were a couple points of good advice, none of them answered the question I posted. So I think it's really unfair for you to acuse me of not wanting advice. :=

[Mach E Avelli]

Most 'help me find a job' threads here won't accurately answer specific questions because the only people who know what jobs are on offer are the employers themselves.
With the exception of a few like Skydive Andy they are not in the business of offering feedback or advice on Pprune.
As far as asking which employers to avoid, anyone stupid enough to go into detail about that could soon be engaging with lawyers. We are not protected here by our anonymous call signs.
Pilots looking for the same job as you are not going to come on here and help you either.
Of course they may throw out a few red herrings. Think about that.

[Jamair]

Of your list, with your hours and a decent attitude you could expect at least an interview if you contact or visit Westwing in TL (particularly if you are willing to do MA or the straits) and Hinterland in cairns. Nice to see someone following the old school route rather than the airline sausage factory cadet thing. Good luck.

[Fliegenmong]

Agree with Fantome, beyond the Blue Horizon is a great read!!