100 EK pilot resignations on 01 Apr, allegedly [Archive]

Southpole

28th Apr 2015, 14:50

And, sorry to bother...

All these guys know that outside their golden compounds there is nothing but sand? Excuse me the tricky joke, but in Europe there is nothing.. Airlines are racing to lower the conditions and states are raising the cost of living. Pension? Forget it in Europe.

Now, I am running away from a ****ty 100 a/c airline here because I can take it anymore.. Really, and I see people in the Middle East complaining all the time and eventually (because rumors must be confirmed) run out to Asia.

People in Asia, screaming like rabbits that they can't stay there there is no life and commuting cannot be done for long..

Are we all crazy or it is just always the same people complaining all the time and never happy anywhere?!?!?

Sooner or later I will join Qatar, (if they mind to have a look at this f@c$ing holding pool) will I join all the whining? Hope not!

BANANASBANANAS

28th Apr 2015, 15:34

EK is now a rather unique case Southpole in that it is short of pilots due to resignations and this shortage is made more intense as EK tries to continue its expansion. EK is working the pilots that remain harder than is fair, healthy or safe, is doing nothing to engage constructively with the remaining pilot body and is failing to acknowledge that there even is a problem or to publish a road map to recovery.

This leads to feelings of resentment and low morale amongst all crew. Throw in fatigue, lack of appreciation, the inability to get leave, or having forced leave that you have to take in Dubai as your children are at school here and you may get just a little flavour of the thoughts going through the average EK pilot's mind nowadays.

A good profit share and pay rise is essential - more so for the company than the pilots - as EK desperately needs to protect the brand name and has to find a bigger carrot to attract more, and better quality, applicants.

For me and many others though, it is more about quality of life. Salary and profit share is important but not at the expense of our long term health and ongoing family life. EK can either choose to do something radical about it or not. But if they do not they will have even more aircraft parked (undergoing unscheduled maintenance) due lack of crews.

They know it. We know it. They know we know it. Why aren't they talking to us?

Will that be you in a few years Southpole? Probably.

drop kick

28th Apr 2015, 16:18

^^^^^^^^^^
Best post in a long time
Keep living the dream....

Mr Angry from Purley

28th Apr 2015, 18:01

Just remind me of the definition of April Fools Day, is a universal thing? :\

jidder

28th Apr 2015, 20:30

Irrespective of when and if the number on the date is true, the points that Bananas have made are valid:D

Crunch time is apon us. The pilot group is so downtrodden that even the cool aide kids are having a hard time keeping their S"it together. The local workforce are even having to work as every trick in the book is being applied to hold it together.

I seriously believe that even the kids like "SouthPole" must be smart enough to know that rosters of 95+ hours on mixed schedule flying is not something worth jumping from the frying pan for:=

For all our sakes the 95hours flight time plus duty and minimal days off must change.........We only have one life/family/chance:mad:

J:E

Southpole

28th Apr 2015, 21:58

Bananas,

Thank you for the nice explanation on what is going on..

Jidder,

I'd love to be a kid but I am afraid that time passed long ago and it is not coming back. But from you I will take it as a compliment......

flaphandlemover

28th Apr 2015, 22:22

Southpole,

Funny that you mention Qatar Airways...

Why don't you come to Emirates? Isn't EK your first choice? Guess not... Why?

Please come.. We need pilots like you.. You have no Idea what you are talking about how life and working in the Pit is....

Come and see because, we are actually living the dream.... NOT.

You are right, we had a great gig but with this special kind of stupid managers, it all got distroyed... For no reason other than their greed and shortsightness...

Pan Am was a glorious and world leading company.... So WAS Emirates...

But after the last Email of STC I feel apreciated and SO LOOKED AFTER... Now we are all buddies again and we need to work together....

I loved his finish:
Until next time, do take care. You owe it to yourself, your loved ones and your team.

Please Go the extra mile because your warning letter and condenscendig briefing is waiting for you by your chief pilot.
Who should have had the same CRM course like we all did and should have learned how to speak to his TEAM.
With respect. But that word is not known to our managment Team.

So keep beating the Minions.... They have no choice anyways... Thats why 100 resigned and the tsunamy slowely makes landfall.. More to come

Southpole

29th Apr 2015, 06:10

Flaphandlemover,

You take it like I was saying that you are all stupid guys complaining for nothing.. While I said that everyone is complaining everywhere but actually looks like there is no perfect place. I am as well running away from Europe at light speed..

Maybe the living in Dubai is getting worse, ok, outside is even worse.
Keep fighting for your rights! But once you leave, you will find nothing outside.

And of course, do not take it personal.

I had my reasons to get Qatar as first choice, second would be etihad and emirates third but I am not 330 type rated and so be get in as cpt I do not meet minimum requirements.

Regards

PositiveRate876

29th Apr 2015, 09:17

It's the place they take you to see when you retire, and on the wall is the Big Picture you never had your whole career
J
Was on 7th floor last week, 'Big Picture' missing!
Perhaps it's been moved to the 9th floor?

777Goose

29th Apr 2015, 12:46

I'm 100% certain it was at least 01;)

777Goose

29th Apr 2015, 14:07

DtP
Avarice - very nice!:ok:
93? I heard something very close but just above.
I can only be certain of one though.

pilotguy1222

29th Apr 2015, 17:50

Of course there is NO perfect place. You just have to choose what works for you and/or your family the best.

"The grass is greener over there!!" well of course it is because it "rains more".:ugh:

GoreTex

29th Apr 2015, 20:08

95 hrs, 5 days OFF, one day AD, 4 days OFF, thanks Adel

Voodoo 3

30th Apr 2015, 00:41

96 hours and 7 days off

Are you kidding!!!!! :eek::eek::eek: :yuk:

Over the other side at FZ and this is by no means happening for all pilots but with some decent bidding (and a bit of luck) three of my last four months have been,

71 hours 16 off
75 hours 15 off
82 hours 14 off.

Oh yeah and thats without any leave too.

Come over……. :ok:

SOPS

30th Apr 2015, 00:47

So let me get this straight GoreTex. Their only answer to this ever increasing crisis, and a crisis it is, is to make the lazy pilots fly on 95 hours, and then ensure that the lazy pilot can't have a good string of days off by putting an AD in the middle of them? That's it? That's the plan? So in other words, get the few pilots that remain, and beat them with a huge stick until they drop.

The plot has well and truely been lost. I feel for you all.

thrustidle74

30th Apr 2015, 02:50

I was trying to swap a very popular flight to move it by one day. I've gone through hundreds of rosters. Nowadays typical roster is 7 on 1 off 3-5 on 2 off (or very close to that) hence impossible to swap. If you find someone to swap with this time you get the swap reject saying exceeding 100 in 28 or not enough days off in 28.
Well expect that number to double/triple once the schools close.

GoreTex

30th Apr 2015, 05:27

SOPS,
had to come back here and then the AD was converted in a day OFF, just to piss me off

SOPS

30th Apr 2015, 05:48

You are kidding me....the place has fallen apart.

MosEisley

30th Apr 2015, 07:27

They have completely forgotten the basic function of an airline and which human resource is most vital to that end. It really is astonishing

flaphandlemover

30th Apr 2015, 09:48

Hey, but there is people like Southpole that calls us all Idiots...

He is coming to Qatar onto the 330 soon. He found paradiese...

please welcome him with 95h and all nightflights...

Southpole

30th Apr 2015, 12:21

Flaphandlemover,

Do you have a problem in understanding what I write? I would never disrespect anyone for his personal choices. Read my post again please.

If you got this message I am sorry, It was not what I meant.

flaphandlemover

1st May 2015, 05:29

@ Southpole

Quote:
You take it like I was saying that you are all stupid guys complaining for nothing...

Well English is not my first language and I am tempted to understand it the way I said.....

Apology accepted and lets move on...

I do wish you all the best in Qatar and enjoy it as long as it lasts...

vbrules

1st May 2015, 08:09

My last log on middle 2011 shortly prior to resignation that I wish had done at least 2 years earlier. Now I see many of the same 'posters' going on about very similar things that were happening in and prior to 2011. But they remain.
In fact one of the stressful factors in the years leading up to resignation was the whining and bitching on pprune.
I moved initially to an embarrassment of an airline and quickly moved to where I should have gone well prior to 2011.
The aircraft colour scheme is not everyone's cup of tea but is fine if you like light blue.
As a comparison to the general gist of this thread my average roster is a tad over 60 hours per month. Typical roster is two long flights, a medium length and a shortish flight. Normal roster for a month 4 flights. I am entitled to 14 consecutive days off every month and I nominate the dates and always get them. I can if I wish have more than that, and in that case I would have a salary adjustment at year end but it is my choice. I go where I want on the network for days off and can change every month if I wish. I generally get 3-4 days reserve at base of operations but is no requirement to be contactable so one can do what one wants on day of reserve. For 3-4 pilot operations bunk is where f class toilets are on Ek 777 and captain always has f class seat. Take off and landing is in f class seat not cockpit and you choose f seat or bunk; both available to you.
Accommodation at operations base very comfortable and allowances paid every day away from ones nominated home base, i.e. If you are not on days off you get allowances. Individual per diems less than Ek but monthly total higher (usd1000). Hotel accommodation on layovers generally slightly lower standard than ek and often airport location; what to do? Layovers often multiple days not the 24 hour standard for ek. Network good.
Salary less than 12 year Ek captain but more I think than 1st year captain unless one has three kids at private school I suggest, however factor in 60 hours vs 95 hours and compare money per working hour and the equation looks quite different.
There are no passenger flights departing from home base outside of approx 8am-9pm. No going to work for 3am departures. General fatigue level is a fraction of ek and basically negligible.
There are many ek pilots here. I'm surprised there aren't more.
It is not perfect however but a lot more so in my opinion than ek.
I haven't regretted for a single instant resigning from ek and I just saw an ek 380 landing outside my hotel window and feel nothing.
If ek started home basings in my city/country I can't say I wouldn't consider it however the rostering would have to be sorted and I would never consider working with HaH as a boss again.

sluggums

1st May 2015, 09:55

Good post, nice to hear other points of view.

My tunnel has started, just counting the days. Preparing to manage my disappointment on May 7th.

han.solo

1st May 2015, 10:39

vbrules please check your PM

777747

1st May 2015, 11:36

Qatar already has legal right not to count bunk time, only "stick time" towards your daily, monthly and annual flight limits. So you can do a ULR credited at 30hrs and only get 15hrs credited towards your duty times. Be careful you could end up on duty for two ULR a month and only be credited 30hrs, not 60!
(Hope that makes sense..)
I think that is the next beating to be implemented by EK.

777747

1st May 2015, 11:41

you lose a nights sleep on every EK pairing.. 6-8 times a month. not sustainable.

zk-dxb

2nd May 2015, 00:18

Meanwhile, back on the thread, does anyone know the truth of this rumour about 100, 96 or 93 pilots resigning on April Fools Day?

Threethirty

2nd May 2015, 00:45

Vbrules, are you a skipper at Korean?

flaphandlemover

2nd May 2015, 04:18

Spoke to an HR lady who has the numbers. As much as we wish for the 100+ She could not confirm that.. She said around 30-35.

Wht was admitted is, that the attrition rate went up from 2.7 to 3.7. Which is actually a shocking huge jump...

They know they have a problem. Will anything change?
But there was a meeting between the local boys and HHSA amd HHSMo...

Seems the truth has gone all the way up and further...

Silky

2nd May 2015, 04:43

Spoke to an HR lady who has the numbers. As much as we wish for the 100+ She could not confirm that.. She said around 30 35

Saw the figures on cruise...actual number was in the month of April, 69. Also been told they canx the DEC course planned for June/July as not enough to fill the course!

As for HR people telling the truth....if you believe them, then I have shares in a bridge for sale!

SuckItUp

2nd May 2015, 05:36

Auditor told me its 126 resignations in the early days of April. That was the number that was told at a bouncy castle meeting. It was also mentioned that things are going to get worse as we will have to pay for the shortfall in Pilots.

The beatings shall continue until morale improves................

vbrules

2nd May 2015, 06:17

I hate to burst your bubble fellas but look back at prune history 4,5,6,7,8 years ago on Emirates threads. Common subjects are too much work; unsustainable; medical fatigue; parking aircraft and not enough crew.
On top of that auditors, HR ladies and others telling pilots how many people actually resigned.
BS. All of it.
The thread and the ideas are best part of 10 years old and none of them are true and nothing will happen EXCEPT... Today is the best it will ever be in Emirates. That was the case 10 years ago and it's the case now.
You have two options:
1. Suck it up and get on with it, or
2. Resign.

nolimitholdem

2nd May 2015, 07:54

Hmmm.

10 years ago, was EK recycling staff numbers to try and disguise the number of resignations? That's the latest trick - new joiners (CC, don't know about flight deck) are being issued staff numbers that used to belong to former staff that have subsequently resigned. The HR system has a "shadow" number that is their "real" number used in determining seniority for staff travel boarding, etc. But staff numbers that do not correspond to the actual number of hiring taking place are being detected - and no, they are not of re-joiners. Interesting the lengths EK are going to, to try and prevent the truth about number of resignations from emerging.

10 years ago, were CC ab initio hires resigning during training?

10 years ago, were pilots resigning to return to the likes of Ryanair?

10 years ago, was there even any debate as to whether EK was a preferred employer over Qatar and the unmentionable company?

10 years ago, was EK having difficulty attracting pilots to even attend roadshows? (A recent one in NZ drew....no one.)

And on and on. EK's reputation as an employer has fallen far, and breathtakingly fast.

Sorry, but while employee complaining may be pretty constant, the current situation cannot be compared to 10 years ago any more than the airline itself can be compared to EK in 2005.

lospilotos

2nd May 2015, 08:15

10 years ago, was EK recycling staff numbers to try and disguise the number of resignations? That's the latest trick.

Yes, latest batch of pilots are 40xxxx...

Payscale

2nd May 2015, 08:38

You are right!! how strange! numbers 44xxxx and 40xxxx mixed!:bored:

BigGeordie

2nd May 2015, 09:06

The fact is that EK needs a lot more pilots (and cabin crew, engineers and, if my recent attempts at renewing my medical are anything to go by, Doctors.) than it did 10 years ago.

A decade back if an airline went broke, which they did with monotonous regularity, EK could mop up 50 or 100 pilots and keep their recruitment going for several months. Now airlines aren't disappearing the way they used to and 50 pilots is a drop in the ocean compared to what EK needs to recruit. Even for those without a job Emirates is no longer a first choice employer.

natops

2nd May 2015, 10:21

yeah how does that work with the latest batch having 404... numbers?

strange things happen....again...

SOPS

2nd May 2015, 11:08

And I bet you 10 years ago, EK would have had no trouble voted as one of the top 10 employers in Dubai, probably would have easily done number one.....not anymore.

harry the cod

2nd May 2015, 16:45

Are the 40xxxx numbers for DEC's? Haven't bothered looking and can't be bothered. Just a thought.

As for operations, one week slow down, next week speed up, 6 years of follow the unofficial timeline, now remove the unofficial timeline, adjust the seniority numbers...... :ugh: You couldn't make this nonsense up if you tried and hardly the stuff to inspire confidence amongst those at the front line. Communication is sadly lacking and the analogy of being adrift on a rudderless ship springs to mind.........or have we already struck the iceberg and nobody has told the Captain?

Harry

alwayzinit

2nd May 2015, 18:26

FlyingKratos
Probably but you would be without loss of licence insurance and death in service coverage.
Just so you know.

misd-agin

2nd May 2015, 18:41

In the U.S. - seniority list is updated monthly. You can see who's removed. Their names are still on list with removal code next to the name. Every year a 'new' list is published and the prior year's retirees/fired/quit disappear.

Company also posts a monthly retirement list. Probably out Monday/Tuesday since it typical takes a couple of days. Monthly update to your effecitve seniority list - IE, you're #2000, 20 guys retire in April, effective seniority is updated in early May to reflect you're now #1980.

Am NOT Sure

3rd May 2015, 06:03

Perhaps off topic :

STC had a valid point when he claimed EK utility of the A380 is a success story.

It's not the equipment .. Performance / etc

It's the ability of the giant to haul more pax per crew

pilotguy1222

3rd May 2015, 13:06

I have also seen staff on the SN list who left months ago. I don't get it anyway, why do they care if were know the percentage?

EK also had to shell out 1.5mil euro do to classes in Toulouse being cancelled...they can't fill them.

TSHEKUDU

3rd May 2015, 13:27

JUMPSEATS coming to mind, applying the same rules that apply to roster when it comes roster swaps, not putting a duty in between your 5 days off, and it will cost the company nothing, but it will keep a lot of pilots happy..... Just my 5cents

The Turtle

3rd May 2015, 14:31

heard that more than one doc also resigned on Apr 1.....

Kapitanleutnant

3rd May 2015, 17:17

Unfortunately, it wasn't the Gnome.

That Turkish Roadshow a few weeks ago… someone said the pilot recruiter running the show had been at Emirates a few years back. I heard someone say that HE was still on the seniority list and he's been at Turkish for 2.5 years!!

nolimitholdem

3rd May 2015, 17:56

heard that more than one doc also resigned on Apr 1.....

I do know of one personally who did indeed resign. Shame really, very good doctor and classy individual.

They do really seem intent on driving the machine into the ground.

White Knight

3rd May 2015, 20:26

That Turkish Roadshow a few weeks ago… someone said the pilot recruiter running the show had been at Emirates a few years back. I heard someone say that HE was still on the seniority list and he's been at Turkish for 2.5 years!

Well drop us the name and we'll tell you if said individual was indeed here! But whatever the BS going on I would highly doubt that same person is still on the EK seniority list...

sluggums

4th May 2015, 03:00

No, he's still on the EK list, and yes, he was on the TY committee. Initials AB.

Mr Angry from Purley

4th May 2015, 07:01

Will Malaysian (getting rid of A380/777/A330) Pilots now be heading to EK.
Might ease the Crewing crisis.

MrMachfivepointfive

4th May 2015, 08:30

Malaysia Airlines puts its entire Airbus A380 fleet up for sale - Australian Business Traveller (http://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airlines-puts-its-entire-airbus-a380-fleet-up-for-sale)

glofish

4th May 2015, 09:33

Why would a Malaysian pilot come to the pit, to live in a rabbits cage and not being able to go home unless on leave? :ugh:

He can get a commuting contract in Asia instead and sleep at home half of the month. :ok:

The Zohan

4th May 2015, 11:47

AB has been in Turkish for 2.5 yrs but left EK about 10 yrs ago. Great guy, very popular and people would have noticed if he was still on the list.

tz

LHR Rain

4th May 2015, 14:00

On Facebook news this morning EK went to SAS and asked to receive a number of SAS pilots that are about to be re-trenched. That way SAS doesn't have to lay off any pilots and EK solves its very short term attraction problems. It didn't say how many pilots would be involved in the transaction but I can't see more than 50 SAS pilots wanting to come to EK even if they don't have a job. The unemployment package in Scandinavia is fantastic and we all know what Emirates is about.

Sheikh Your Bootie

4th May 2015, 16:25

TZ

As of this morning, when I checked the Seniority list AB the nice Irish gent, was still on the seniority list. he nearly joined as a DEC a couple of years back, but saw the light in time.

SyB :zzz::zzz:

expat400

4th May 2015, 18:00

"The unemployment package in Scandinavia is fantastic"

Sure... a captain at the top salary level in Sweden will get SEK 476 (209 dirhams) per day after tax in unemployment benefits.

But, that is irrelevant since these discussions between SAS and EK is not due to lay offs in SAS. It's about changing the demography. They are trying to get the older guys to leave in order to hire new and cheaper pilots on a "B-scale".

I doubt there will be many takers since the hard work, awful rostering, arrogant management and non guaranteed leave in EK is well known among the pilots in SAS. Most pilots in SAS are already today using all legal means they can find to work part time...

The Zohan

5th May 2015, 08:49

Carbo

22nd Apr 2016, 16:44

Seniority list is now well above 4000 with 55 new joiners in March alone.
It seems EK is getting the numbers they need.
C.

Nuuk

22nd Apr 2016, 21:36

Carbo,
What's the big deal of reaching 4000 crew? Should of been there long time ago.
Remove managers,trainers and inactives crew from the list, with 250 airplanes, bet you barely have 7 crews per plane.

Fearless Leader

23rd Apr 2016, 00:55

NOTHING.... like digging up a year old thread, boys.

Nothing to look at here......"Move along"

JAARule

23rd Apr 2016, 12:14

On the contrary, FL, these days it's always good to bring up the shortcomings of this shameless bunch of BSers, even if it's old news. But as EGT said in a recent RTGS BS session, please stop telling everyone the beatings will continue until morale improves!

SOPS

23rd Apr 2016, 14:44

EGT needs to stop hiding in the office and show his worth on the line...that might be interesting

Talparc

24th Apr 2016, 13:35

EGT is busy writing warning letters

Carbo

24th Apr 2016, 15:41

Talparc

24th Apr 2016, 16:02

Carbo:

nice aspect, do you think they can run this airline by loosing experienced crew and replacing them with low timers?

fatbus

24th Apr 2016, 16:46

Of course they can. They could care less of long serving experienced pilots. How long you been here?

They already have.

Nikita81

24th Apr 2016, 17:06

do you think they can run this airline by loosing experienced crew and replacing them with low timers

Of course they can. They already have. But it's exactly the reason why they've hit the bottom.

Deep and fast

24th Apr 2016, 22:07

Don't convince yourself every new joiner is a greenhorn!
I know an experienced guy from a smaller type with long range experience joining on the 777. Why, because his current gig is crap so he might as well take a new rating and experience then see where he is in 3-5 years. The market will have changed again by then.

Me, I would but the money is crap and the hours too high. I guess I'm lazy then )

Nikita81

25th Apr 2016, 00:01

It's different with pilots. They come already trained and experienced. Cabin crew and ground staff are trained from the beginning. They learn, they see what is going on, they go in couple of months. You don't run customer service and transport business like that. You need motivated and experienced crew who see their position in the company like a career, not like a short-term job.

I am receiving a lot of e-mails complaining on service on board or lost luggage. I never publish them, but things went bad long time ago. EK let itself turn from premium service to ****. And it's not crew's fault. It's only natural for employees to give as much as they receive. Lousy conditions? Ok, minimum effort. Minimum effort in aviation business? Ok, shift to another airline.

jack schidt

25th Apr 2016, 02:07

7 days paper page 6 today 25 Apr 2016: EMIRATES CHALLENGE TO KEEP HOLD OF TOP TALENT.

The article goes on to say that 20 to 30 pilots are recruited "a week"! On that level or rate, my poor math makes that 80 a month X 12 or 960 a year, not right I would say. The 120 cabin crew a week recruited might be a more realistic number.

Recently I was in the sim building and the sim recruiter was chatting to a couple of wannabes who were about to fly the sim test. They were chatting and discussing why the other 2 candidates didn't show up to continue the selection process as they already packed their bags and took a flight out the night before.

J

Schnowzer

25th Apr 2016, 10:04

The important number is not 4000 but 55. The monthly average of new recruits is at 44 for the first 3 months of 2016...compared to 18 a year ago.
Let's face it, there is no shortage of new joiners and I doubt the attrition rate alone will bring up T&C's.

Not sure about that. At the present rate there would be just over 500 this year. The attrition rate last year was horrific and looking at the seniority list It shows it. We had around 3800 on the list a year or so ago and now someone that joined then is 250-300 places higher so last year's gain was minimal. 2 steps forward, 1 step back. A net gain of 200 adds up to 12 aircraft or so, not enough.

The key to everything is not just attracting newbies but retention of experienced crew. There are lots of measures that could be used, I look forward to seeing if any will be implemented.

fatbus

25th Apr 2016, 11:31

I thought the net increase in AC was 11, you can do the math .

170to5

25th Apr 2016, 11:45

js

I thought the fact he said this was a bit more interesting:

“We focus on pilots. We have 4,000 pilots in the company and they work very hard and ensuring that they feel recognised is very important and we could probably do more there because the talent pool for pilots is so competitive.”

Slip of the tongue or a carefully crafted passing phrase?

(We'll find out that it was a slip of the tongue on the 10th...)

lospilotos

25th Apr 2016, 16:01

Guess it also depends on what type of flying an aircraft does. A 48 hour ULR pairing requires what, at least 20 pilots to run?

pd123

26th Apr 2016, 11:32

Hi Carbo, may I ask where did you get this numbers from?

"The important number is not 4000 but 55. The monthly average of new recruits is at 44 for the first 3 months of 2016...compared to 18 a year ago.
Let's face it, there is no shortage of new joiners and I doubt the attrition rate alone will bring up T&C's."

fliion

27th Apr 2016, 16:21

170,

May 10th has got very little relevance to his comments re pilots.

What's more important is this "very recent positive developments" email.

The longer they wait the stronger the backlash if it's not what's needed.

Nikita81

27th Apr 2016, 19:30

Because when you’re hiring 22-year-old Serbians who have never been to Dubai before, for us it’s our job to enable communication channels that remain intact

Sure. We can all escape from Dubai when you threaten us by calling Serbian Embassy and telling them that you will imprison us and we can all make our own blogs as the intact communication channels.

QCM

7th May 2016, 06:46

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/9db81e2b-fe49-4982-9ca7-5ec4a58acc4b-original.jpeg

CAT3A

7th May 2016, 08:16

Nice one QCM

sluggums

7th May 2016, 08:28

I notice the manager seems somewhat gravitationally challenged...

QCM

7th May 2016, 08:37

Yeah dxW to his advantage...lost of situation awareness should we say!

Brian Fantana

7th May 2016, 19:21

Is that recruitment number correct?
"We hire 150 people each week, 120 are cabin crew and between 20-30 are pilots"

EACH WEEK !!

Seriously??

fatbus

7th May 2016, 22:56

Pilot target 50 per month

The Dominican

8th May 2016, 00:07

What's the actual new hire numbers?

harry the cod

8th May 2016, 11:54

Slightly above that, around 60 last month. Lot's of bright and enthusiastic turboprop guys and girls joining thinking Christmas has come early, some of them only 24-25 years of age. Bit different to 10 years ago. Still some ex lo cost and quite a few ex Malaysian although did hear that several of those are struggling. Cabin crew numbers around 120 per week, 7 new courses start each week with around 15-17 newbies on each course. Standard of English amongst them varies greatly!

Harry

kungfu panda

8th May 2016, 16:25

glofish

9th May 2016, 04:06

You've gotta love it when a new hire struggles

Misplaced cynicism.

Let me reply with a suggestive question:
Would you like to end your 12h night duty into crappy weather with a new hire that needed two additional sim sessions with more than 60 landings, to get a minimum of 3 consecutive within limits? Which happens to be the new limitation instructors get (imposed) to release the much needed reinforcement on the line?

I guess even your answer must be .... errhhhh, no thanks. It's kicking the can down to the outskirt roads of simple line captains who struggle with the 98h+ hours anyway.

We have a right to be sceptical and to raise this issue without being wise-a$$ed , as we have to pick-up the slack.

ekwhistleblower

9th May 2016, 05:21

The average each month this year is 48. It's a great opportunity for some with little experience.

The issue is that management have seen what they propose work in a stable environment with a closely supervised, single culture airline where communication skills are not an issue.

You can make a slight adjustment to adapt training in one or two areas but a wholesale change will lead to disaster.

So far to attract numbers we have got HR to select pilots and decided the sim cannot be failed, just need more training I am told. Would a crash in an actual aircraft disbar a pilot?

Add to that, experienced Captains leaving and pilots with poor foundation training being recruited. Then a change to recurrent training, inexperienced trainers, a watering down of the command LOE. I think we will need extra sticking plaster for the Swiss Cheese.

In the past we selected pilots on the following criteria:

1. Demonstrable quality of basic training
2. Sufficient hours to gain a reasonable level of jet experience
3. Familiarity with one of our aircraft types
4. A safe national aviation industry.
5. Maturity

New requirements:
1. Ability to BS HR
2. A pulse
3. Having seen a jet

The risks we face on the line will go through the roof. Pilots with shady basic training, poor language skills, way behind the jet are about to be released to fly to Hong in a typhoon along with a Captain who's LOE stretched as far as a computer reset.. What could possibly go wrong?

Well we have evidence, GPWS warnings ignored, high energy approaches, just look at the data from when we lowered DEC requirements around 2005.

Good luck to all:ugh:

harry the cod

9th May 2016, 07:02

Kungfu Panda

Your reply, hinting somewhat sarcastically at my comment, would be more understandable were it not for the fact that some of these guys have come from the B777. It's not about the new SOP's, it's about not being able to land the bloody thing. Considering some have several years on type, it does beg the question what were they doing before arriving at EK.

Learning is one thing. Struggling is another. Inability to land a plane? I would have thought that was a given......for a professional pilot.

Harry

Fellowship of the drink

9th May 2016, 07:41

I have flown with many Malaysian pilots in EK (not the new ones yet) and they are generally very capable and professional.

Unfortunately, Malaysia is also prone to the wasta culture, where nepotism and cronysm is rampant. This probably explains why a B777 rated pilot cannot land or operate an aircraft competently.

what_goes_up

9th May 2016, 10:50

Would you like to end your 12h night duty into crappy weather with a new hire that needed two additional sim sessions with more than 60 landings, to get a minimum of 3 consecutive within limits? Which happens to be the new limitation instructors get (imposed) to release the much needed reinforcement on the line?
Glo
Where do you get that BS from?:=:=:=

glofish

9th May 2016, 11:13

Where do you get that BS from?

As if I'd disclose any source, silly!
Get your a$$ out of the couch and do your own research. You will see, it's even worse.

what_goes_up

9th May 2016, 11:18

As if I'd disclose any source, silly!
Get your a$$ out of the couch and do your own research. You will see, it's even worse.
:8I'd say you better check your source... If this was the case, I would know about it...

Emma Royds

9th May 2016, 23:19

I see the only solution as overseas bases - problem solved.

Or perhaps part time? :E

Tourist

10th May 2016, 08:22

Guys, it's just an airline.

All over the world there are big airlines flying to the same places using cadets who have never flown anything bigger than a Cessna before clambering into a Boeing or Airbus.

It is nothing special to fly with junior guys.

If you are not up to being the captain next to a junior FO then it is you that is the weak link, not them.

As anybody who has ever flown turboprops before knows they are considerably harder work in most stages of flight.

Get over yourselves.

The real reason you are upset is that you are hoping that if they cannot recruit enough people then Ts & Cs might finally improve.
I quite understand this hope, but don't blame the junior guys.

Dropp the Pilot

10th May 2016, 08:34

If you are not up to being the captain next to a junior FO then it is you that is the weak link, not them.

A380 TREs take note.

atlas12

14th May 2016, 00:33

I have to agree, if the FO is garbage then take the sector for yourself and let them run the radios. Simple. That's what I did when I didn't trust the FO, and one of them is on their way to EK right now.

120feet

14th May 2016, 22:03

There are two pilots up there for a reason. They are to complement each other and increase the level of safety. If one is distracted because he is babysitting, then obviously there are safety implications. If EK is now hiring this caliber pilot then their training needs to reflect this and be adjusted accordingly. Rarely, and I mean very rarely is giving the radio work to the FO the answer. To each their own. IMHO

BigGeordie

15th May 2016, 06:37

Some of our new F/Os, despite having 'level 4' printed on their licences, are safer being kept away from the radios.

BANANASBANANAS

15th May 2016, 08:25

Ability and experience are 2 very different things.

Guys with great ability can be let down by a lack of experience and, unfortunately, some guys with great experience can still be let down by a lack of ability.

The knack, from a recruiting pov, is keeping the overall balance (and the insurers and PR junta) happy.

I suspect that commercial expediency is being put in front of all other concerns here. But don't just blame EK. Most low cost airlines are doing the same thing and EK is just finding its level in the global market place.