Benbecula inbound advice

[therunningman]

We are planning to fly from the south coast to Benbecula to see the in-laws who live by the beach at Sollas. Unfortunately we can't get there for the official Sollas fly in so are planning to use Benbecula.

Due to fuel planning we are going to stop at Oban to tank up. We had also wanted to drop in to Islay.

Regarding flight plans - does a full flight plan have to be filed - i.e. on paper, with a one hour before departure requirement, or can the flight plan be made verbally with Scottish info in conjunction with the PPR inbound Benbecula with an eta?

I am aware that one hour can pass quickly whilst re-fueling etc etc but it is a time requirement that cuts down our flexibility.

Finally, if anyone has an aviation contact on North Uist who is knowledgable on the landing restriction at Sollas, or advice in general when operating in this part of the world, then I would be greatful.

Thanks.

[chevvron]

Advice: don't stray into the MOD rocket range.
My only visit was many years ago when the RAF had a mobile radar station there. I was in the RAE Farnborough BAC 111 and the radar unit only had UHF radios.

[Fostex]

or can the flight plan be made verbally with Scottish info in conjunction with the PPR inbound Benbecula with an eta

Scottish Info generally don't like you filing in the air but it depends on controller and how busy they are. I was once told off for trying to file in the air after an AFPEx mess-up. :uhoh:

Having said that Scottish Info are always very friendly :ok:

[Dave Dash]

No need to file a flight plan at all it gives you much more flexibility. Just give Scottish Info a call and they will monitor your flight. You might want to consider getting the Highlands and Islands out of hours permit as some of the airports have quite restricted opening hours.

[maxred]

I assume your flight is VFR, therefore all that is required is PPR for Islay, PPR for Oban, and PPR for Benbecula. They will not be strict about times, however the AIP effective from 4th May gives operating hours 12.00-16.00. This at Benbecula. That is quite restrictive from what you appear to want to do.

You would require an out or hours permit from HIAL, costs app 35.00, which will allow you to arrive/depart, when you wish, but let them know you are going. Call HIAL at Inverness and they will organise for you. (This for HIAL airports only. Oban is not one)

Scottish info is precisely that, information service, and IMO you will not require the filing of a flight plan, unless it goes IFR, in which case, you would follow the IFR arrival procedure, as per your filed IFR flight plan. IFR only for Islay and Benbecula, Oban does not have a published procedure. You would want to do the flight VFR though, for a good number of reasons.

[piperboy84]

Scottish info is precisely that, information service, and IMO you will not require the filing of a flight plan, unless it goes IFR, in which case, you would follow the IFR arrival procedure, as per your filed IFR flight plan. IFR only for Islay and Benbecula, Oban does not have a published procedure. You would want to do the flight VFR though, for a good number of reasons.

Purely out of interest as to the options of howthis flight could be flown if it did turn IMC, is there any benefit/requirement to file an IFR plan which would involve getting up in the airways, as most of this area is uncontrolled airspace is it legal to stay lower (and hopefully below the freezing level) and just pick up a basic service while flying IFR then fly the prodcedure upon arrival assuming an out of hours /non towered field with a published approach ?

Edit to add: or if the tower is manned at arrival time, pick up an approach clearance for landing when nearing the field ?

[NorthSouth]

NB Benbecula has a 3 hours PPR requirement and last time I was there they were quite sniffy at me phoning up only two hours prior to ETA.

Islay also PPR but without any time specified

[piperboy84]

Does a filed flight plan whether VFR or IFR negate the need for PPR ?

[maxred]

Does a filed flight plan whether VFR or IFR negate the need for PPR ?

In my experience, regardless of flight plan, they also require PPR, if stated in the AIP. Londonderry, is a classic example of this.:confused:

[chevvron]

Filing a flight plan does not replace requesting PPR.
If you file IFR for instance, and your div is PPR, they will not get the flight plan and could theoretically turn you away (unless you declare an emergency).
Yes I do know of a case where this has happened!

[edinv]

It might be worth having a look at HIALs web site at:-

Charges, Opening Hours and Pilots Information | About Us | HIAL Group (http://www.hial.co.uk/about-us/charges-opening-hours-and-pilots-information/)

Make sure your flight complies with the Private Light Aircraft Charge or expect to pay mega bucks!

The flat rate charge applies if the following conditions are fulfilled:
a) The flight must be private
b) Aircraft MTWA must be less then 3 metric tonnes (single or multi engine)
c) The flight must arrive VFR
d) The flight must arrive or depart during normal operating hours (to enable payment to be made and details checked, if necessary, before departure)
e) Payment must be made by cash, cheque or credit card during office hours (or to a handling agent outside of hours). Foreign currency is not accepted
f) The pilot must comply with PPR requirements
g) If requested when seeking permission for the flight the pilot must avoid peak traffic times

Out of Hours (OOH) can be suspended from time to time, routinely notified by NOTAM. At BEB/EGPL it looks like OOH is not avbl till mid -May due WIP.

[Maoraigh1]

Solas beach is available outside the Fly-in times. I'm sending you a PM with a local contact.

[maxred]

d) The flight must arrive or depart during normal operating hours (to enable payment to be made and details checked, if necessary, before departure)

I have never had an issue with this, and have found HIAL, in the island airfields, very flexible. Just got to talk to them......that's what an Out of Hours permit is for, including indemnity of course

[The Fat Controller]

I work at Prestwick Centre and spend quite a lot of time on the West Coast sector 127.275 Mhz.

If you are IFR please file flight plans on the ground.

As mentioned above, please get your PPR/Indemnity sorted in advance.

If you are VFR please give us a call, we have pretty good radio coverage and normally a few Loganair flights above you who can relay info if necessary.

Radar services are available subject to workload, just ask.

As there is a lot of cumulo-granitus about, should you suddenly need to climb due to weather and continue IFR, either in an airway or outside CAS, we are there to help !

[dublinpilot]

Where is the whole flight plan thing coming from? Where did you get the idea that you need to file a flight plan for this trip?

It would be very unusual for an internal VFR flight in the UK to need a flight plan.

[Talkdownman]

It would be very unusual for an internal VFR flight in the UK to need a flight plan
…or IFR in Class G airspace…!

Regarding flight plans - does a full flight plan have to be filed - i.e. on paper, with a one hour before departure requirement

If you want to fly IFR in Class G airspace, just do it.
If you want to tell somebody that you are doing it, then that's another matter, but it doesn't need a FPL.
When to file: May file/must file/advisable to file - all in CAP694 (https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%20694.pdf) Chapter 1.

[RTN11]

People seem to be confusing flight plans with PPR.

A flight plan does not replace PPR when required, and on the islands they certainly need proper PPR on the phone, they often have limits on their number of movements per hour due to controller training or break requirements, so just phone them.

If wanting to go IFR, perhaps stick a plan in, but it's all uncontrolled airspace anyway, so it's not doing a lot for you.

If VFR, just phone them to discuss PPR. Enjoy the flight :ok:

[The Fat Controller]

Not all Class G, you may, depending on level, have to cross the new :mad: Class E airways to the west of TRN and GOW that were established at the back end of last year when Advisory Routes were ditched.

You can do this VFR of course, but the controllers at PC very much like you to give us a call because we can then issue a discrete SSR code and our rules for avoiding you with Airways traffic become MUCH easier ;)

[maxred]

Not all Class G, you may, depending on level, have to cross the new Class E airways to the west of TRN and GOW that were established at the back end of last year when Advisory Routes were ditched.

You can do this VFR of course, but the controllers at PC very much like you to give us a call because we can then issue a discrete SSR code and our rules for avoiding you with Airways traffic become MUCH easier

That's great info FC. Will bear that in mind. I assume you are talking about clyde-fyner-bruce at FL55?

[The Fat Controller]

maxred, that's exactly what I meant.

Also, be aware that the Loganair Twin Otters and Saab 340s often go VFR on a nice day to various destinations and there are some Islanders doing Oban to Coll and other small airfields.

[maxred]

Not to forget the nice Yellow Seaplane:cool:

[therunningman]

Thank you for your varied replies.

The flight is VFR and is coming from the south coast of the UK at 90kts - thus wind will be large en-route factor.

I hate to quote manuals for GA as i fear that is the way this sport is going, but I see from the CAA flight planning guide :

CAA considers it appropriate to emphasise the advice to pilots to file a flight plan when flying to or from the following HIAL aerodromes:
Barra (EGPR) Benbecula (EGPL) Campbeltown (EGEC) Inverness (EGPE) Islay (EGPI)
Kirkwall (EGPA) Stornoway (EGPO) Sumburgh (EGPB) Tiree (EGPU)
Wick (EGPC)

I see it is "advice". The manual then goes on to explain how to file and the fact that an abbreviated FPL does not inform the destination aerodrome with an ETA. Thus my mention of doing that via PPR.

As i say, I don't want to sit on the ground at Oban awaiting my VFR flight plan to be accepted into the system (60 minutes) with weather incoming when practically I could just telephone the destination with an ETA then launch and do an abbreviated flight plan with Scottish Info.

Scottish Info, I know provide a basic service and I am normally aware of its limitations. However they do i believe have the ability to accept an airborne FPL.

So lets say, for arguments sake that the weather is good, I have taken all the usual precautions, that i won't be operating outside of the airport operating hours, that i am also a VFR private aircraft and that I won't be infringing any danger areas intentionally or not etc etc etc etc

My question is - in anyone's practical experience, will a PPR with an ETA to EGPL and an abbreviated FPL to Scottish satisfy everyone or will I have to remember how to file a paper version and sit on the ground until my expected ETA?

If Sollas is available outside the fly-in dates the great! Land and then drive up the slip way to the house!

[maxred]

My question is - in anyone's practical experience, will a PPR with an ETA to EGPL and an abbreviated FPL to Scottish satisfy everyone

Yes, and

will I have to remember how to file a paper version and sit on the ground until my expected ETA?

No

[Loggerheads]

I have never and never known anyone else to file a flight plan to any HIAL (or other) Highland & Island airfield, including Sollas.

Just PPR, get in, fly and enjoy is all that is necessary.:ok:

[silverknapper]

I haven't read the document you refer to. I suspect the rationale may just be for search and rescue purposes given those aerodromes perceived remoteness. However HIA do have a habit of making the simplest of tasks complicated.

Get PPR and you'll be fine legally. Call Scootish info and someone will know about you. Forget FPLs if they are causing you additional stress.

[PAXfips]

Sorry for slight off-topic: but is the sandstrip "airfield" of Barra open for PPL holders?
Went there once (as a pax of course) and it was :E

[LFT]

There was a German reg Ce172 there when flew in there in the Tw'otter last year, I think, but not 100% if you're looking to stay overnight it's best to get your a/c as far up the beach as possible due the tides.


Edited to add these -


http://i62.tinypic.com/aujdw2.jpg


http://i62.tinypic.com/35aubtu.jpg


http://i62.tinypic.com/5v166o.jpg

[piperboy84]

Bet that windsock doesn't spend much time in that position !!