Nepal [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Tankertrashnav

28th Apr 2015, 09:04

ancientaviator62

28th Apr 2015, 10:10

During Op Corporate the USAF flew into ASI what we called 'Concertina City'.
It was a complete accommodation set up with a generator. I have often wondered why something similar could not be provided for these relief operations. Totally agree about the criminal waste of our overseas aid budget.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m19/ancientaviator62/CONCERTINACITYASI_zpsc97e8955.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/ancientaviator62/media/CONCERTINACITYASI_zpsc97e8955.jpg.html)

Pic is of 'Concertina City' accommodation at ASI.

Wander00

28th Apr 2015, 10:10

At a Rotary dinner on Saturday and two French branches raised enough that night to pay for 2 shelterboxes. Very real, practical aid that lines no pockets on the way.

smujsmith

28th Apr 2015, 17:35

Go 99 Sqdn,

The tradition of the Royal Air Force transport fleet is safe in your hands. It's good to see that at least the British people seem to have a wish to give as much support to the people of Nepal in this "worst of tragedies". Contrary to the government, who seem to think a derisory £5 mill. will suffice. I'd rather see some of that EU sub being given to them, by the £billion. Sorry for the political rant chaps, I think my feathers are unruffled now, rant mode off. Best of luck to all involved in Nepal, we can but hope that estimated losses are proven incorrect.

Smudge

Danny42C

28th Apr 2015, 23:22

ricardian

28th Apr 2015, 23:31

TankerTrashNav - Have just read up on ShelterBox - I'd not heard of them before. Have set up a modest monthly Direct Debit as it seems to be good way of getting help directly to those who need it and not into the pockets of consultants, managers, etc (Also GiftAided my DD)

ion_berkley

28th Apr 2015, 23:42

May be wrong, and I hope I am, but no (AFAIK) mention on BBC News yet of India lending a hand.

They are contiguous, and have plenty of helicopters, and I read (in the Sat "Tel") have Gurkha regiments in the Indian Army.

D.

Danny, the Indian military seem to be by far the biggest helpers so far in Nepal, lots of helicopters, field hospitals, rescue personal etc. Definitely pulling there weight on this one.

Always a Sapper

29th Apr 2015, 00:14

Smudge

Agree totally there. IMHO, we as a country need to stand up and be seen to be helping Nepal big time, The people of Nepal (Gurkhas) have in the past helped us during times of 'difficulty' and theres a moral debt to be considered.

Good luck to the Queens Gurkha Engineers and 99 Sqn.

Trackmaster

29th Apr 2015, 02:24

Two RAAF C-17s due to leave RAAF Amberley shortly bound for Nepal.
A Gurkha company has been training with the Australian army at Shoalwater Bay in Queensland.
I would not be surprised if they are heading home on the aircraft.

Robert Cooper

29th Apr 2015, 02:31

Danny,

Nepal on Tuesday said India has led the relief and rescue operations being carried out in the quake-hit nation and was the first to rush aid to the people. Nepal’s Ambassador to India Deepak Kumar Upadhyay said there has been “unbelievable support and assistance” from India and the assurance of help from the Indian government has been like a “blank cheque.” The Ambassador said though countries like the United States, China and Israel have been quick with relief material and help, the Nepalese people have received “overwhelming love and support” from India immediately after the quake hit on Saturday.

Can't always trust the BBC.

Bob C

SaddamsLoveChild

29th Apr 2015, 02:57

Well done the RAF :ok:

I only support two charities on a regular basis and one is the excellent local charity Shelterbox ( ShelterBox | Home (http://www.shelterbox.org/) ). They've already got people on the ground in Nepal assessing the scale of need and will very shortly be sending quantities of their fantastic boxes, each of which contains a simple shelter, cooking equipment etc.

Thats the sort of overseas aid I approve of - not the sort that lines the pockets of corrupt officials and pays "consultants" £800 a day.

So why yet again is HM got being charged an extortionate amount for landing fees and services.......did we learn nothing from the Pakistan fiasco......having worked for the UN alongside NGO'S such as Oxfam I saw first hand the financial waste they spend on air fairs (business class) and will be directing my money to UK charities. Extortionate landing fees for aid aircraft have to stop.

ancientaviator62

29th Apr 2015, 06:35

'Extortianate fees' for aid aircraft are nothing new. I have told this tale on the Hercules thread but will precis it here. When I was involved with 48 Sqn out of Changi in 1970 we did relief ops to East Pakistan,now Bangladesh.
When we landed there the customs wanted to charge us duty on the aid supplies, the fuel in our tanks and the oil in the engines. They also tried to insist that before we airdropped aid we had to land and offload the stores for inspection and assessment of duty.

Tankertrashnav

29th Apr 2015, 09:03

Nothing new in this landing fees business. During WW1 the UK government had to pay a fee to the French Railway companies for use of their tracks to take troop trains from the Channel ports to the battle areas, in spite of the fact most of the rolling stock and locomotives had been sent across from Britain !

ricardian pleased to hear that. The way I do it is to sell stuff on ebay and donate the money directly to Shelterbox. Ebay waives 100% of its fees if you donate all the proceeds of the sale to a nominated charity.

NutLoose

29th Apr 2015, 17:18

I must admit I'd never heard of Shelterbox either, but Ihaving visited their site I am mega impressed with both the idea and the concept, all started by a local rotary club. I also like the idea that along with essentials such as shelter, light and water purification, it also includes basic tools to allow those effected to help themselves.
I too will send a modest donation to such a worthy cause.

higthepig

29th Apr 2015, 18:03

Again, thank you for the ShelterBox steer, I was blissfully unaware of their work, a donation has been sent and a direct debit set up as a result.

victor tango

29th Apr 2015, 18:48

I salute you RAF Chinook chaps.

Please God look after you in your mission.

I had a thought years ago.....where I got a state of the art air balloon and under slung it with a unit that was a self contained, efficient operating theater.

I envisaged it to rapidly respond to huge motorway pile up's, negating the need for emergency vehicles having to travel miles to the incident through traffic congested routes.

There are obvious connections to the Nepal situation.

I thought of emailing Richard Branson as I felt he would, like him or not, be the one person to possibly get this "off the ground" rather than some faceless person from the "Ministry".

Mechta

29th Apr 2015, 21:13

Victor Tango, The Sikorsky CH-64 Skycrane had a specially designed drop-off mission pod, which could be configured as a mobile hospital along the lines of what you describe. It was self contained, air-conditioned and fitted with an X-ray unit, blood bank and lab unit.

Description & video here:

RAltpRp06Uk

Danny42C

29th Apr 2015, 23:26

My #8: "May be wrong, and I hope I am, but no (AFAIK) mention on BBC of India lending a hand".

Glad to hear that I am wrong; but BBC1 News still (up to 2200A tonight) doesn't consider it worth a mention (par for the course, I suppose). But my thanks to ion berkley and Robert Cooper ("Can't always trust the BBC"), who put me straight on this !

As regards the airfield making a quick buck out of the rescue landing fees, it is reminiscent of Churchill's retort to the Egyptian Government, who "tried it on" in the N. African campaign: "I do not intend to pay for admission to the battlefield !"

"It seems that these tremors are not unusual, but full blown earthquakes rare, at this end of the Himalayas". (My Post #2684 in "Gaining a Pilot's Brevet in WWII" Thread). I must open my big mouth ! :rolleyes:

Danny.

victor tango

30th Apr 2015, 17:29

Thank you Mechta........It's those FBI/CIA chaps sneaking into my bedroom and pinching my dreams:=

sitigeltfel

1st May 2015, 07:18

The BBC have just shown footage of Nepalese soldiers being put to work salvaging ancient bricks from collapsed historic buildings.

Priorities?

Could be the last?

11th May 2015, 19:21

Anyone heard how the Chinooks are doing across in Nepal?

TheWizard

11th May 2015, 20:35

Erm, not so well. They haven't been allowed in!!

Nepal's government said Sunday it has denied entry to three British military helicopters sent to help the earthquake relief effort because of fears they could damage buildings when landing.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/quake-hit-nepal-denies-entry-british-helicopters-131009693.html#aRDB6oi

T28B

12th May 2015, 21:35

Reports that a USMC UH-1Y working with the relief effort is missing (http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/12/politics/us-helicopter-missing-nepal/index.html).
Hopefully they will turn up.

NutLoose

13th May 2015, 01:55

They are reporting a US Marine helicopter missing

US military helicopter missing in Nepal with eight on board - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/nepal/11600962/US-military-helicopter-missing-in-Nepal-with-eight-on-board.html)

Tankertrashnav

13th May 2015, 09:26

Seems a shame that having got so far the Chinooks havent been allowed into the country. Obviously I know next to nothing about helicopter operations, but surely there must be useful work for these aircraft in Nepal at the moment? OK they are not as able to work in confined areas as the Squirrels but there must be a need for longer range transport of kit/personnel around the country which the Chinooks are ideal for - taking heavy plant to outlying areas as an underslung load for example?

I smell politics here - China sticking its oar in?

Wander00

13th May 2015, 09:54

But if China exerting influence would that not counter the US effort?

chinook240

13th May 2015, 10:52

USMC V22 seem to be doing a good job, not everywhere is a confined LS.

http://youtu.be/pQ_zhjFINWY

Hawk98

13th May 2015, 11:49

I don't know that much about us and China, but we have a decent economic relationship as it stands, therefore I doubt that is the reason, a Chinese state company is even partially funding/investing in the Hinkley Point nuclear power station!

Pontius Navigator

13th May 2015, 13:42

Shelter box costs only £495 and is now a worldwide organisation with many boxes forward deployed. However for Nepal they ars not appealing for Shelter Boxes but for Shelter Kits.

A Kit comprises a tarp, hammer, nails, saw, wire, wire cutters and is probably more useful if there is little suitable space for tents.

A Shelter Kit costs just £35. My club has just funded 10 which is addition to our annual provision of a Shelter Box.

Other useful kit it Aqua Box, not sure the cost now.

Another is Life Straws which can turn foul water into drinking water.

Tankertrashnav

13th May 2015, 16:43

As you might expect they are very visible collecting in Helston at the moment (they are based here). Local Tesco has given them a good site inside the store to display a box and its contents, with plenty of pictures, leaflets etc.

Two collecting boxes seem to be doing a good trade :ok:

LXGB

15th May 2015, 19:47

Sky News: UK To Pull Out Chinooks Sent To Help Nepal

(http://news.sky.com/story/1484925/uk-to-pull-out-chinooks-sent-to-help-nepal)

Tankertrashnav

15th May 2015, 20:03

Just think of the work those three Chinooks could have done - and still manage not to blow any buildings down or blow any roofs off.

What a shambles :ugh::ugh::ugh:

snaggletooth

15th May 2015, 23:26

RAF Chinooks to return from Nepal having not been used - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32759136)
:ugh:

Tallbloke

16th May 2015, 07:45

Is there any mileage in the rumour that we sent HC3 without Oxygen, which therefore could not be used at altitude?

PapaDolmio

16th May 2015, 08:18

Who paid for this shambles?

HMG or UN?

brakedwell

16th May 2015, 09:00

Ultimately the British Taxpayer,

PapaDolmio

16th May 2015, 10:49

Too true, more to the point- who decided to send them and didn't anyone question whether they'd be allowed to fly?

Martin the Martian

16th May 2015, 11:08

Generally in humanitarian disasters the local authorities are screaming out for helicopters, and I imagine the assumption is that anything that is sent is of use, particularly heavy lift helicopters. I don't think anyone expected the Nepalese to turn down the help, given the state things are in out there. I do think that worrying about roofs being blown off is like being concerned that you've just spilt a pint of milk when the house is already flooded.

Hawk98

16th May 2015, 12:29

Seems a bit odd that it's fine for US Ospreys to fly there, which must have as much, if not more downwash than a Chinook, and they must be about the same size, yet the Chinook is actually narrower?

Danny42C

16th May 2015, 18:23

Saw a flash of newsreel TV a day or so ago, in which a relief worker was complaining about the difficulties of getting supplies forward by road, because of surface damage and rock falls.

She was in a wide valley, unpopulated as far as I could see. Struck me (as one absolutely ignorant of helicopter operations), that a Chinook could prove very handy indeed for the job (without needing to blow any roofs off).

D.

smujsmith

16th May 2015, 19:06

I'm just an old Airframe fitter, and undoubtably no expert in Helicopter operations, but, with the amount of damage done by the now two earthquakes how much more can a few roof tiles blown off make to the devastation that Nepal seems to have suffered. I read an analysis today in a national daily, that insinuated that our Chinook offer was held back because of both Indian and Chinese concerns of western military operations in "their own" back yard. It's a damn shame IMHO, these aircraft and crews could have brought some serious experience and expertise to bear in this unfolding disaster.

Smudge

bvcu

16th May 2015, 19:45

Pakistan managed to use their chinooks after the earthquake there a few years ago ! lots of politics i think ……...

typerated

16th May 2015, 21:54

I have spent a few months in Nepal.

I can't think of any village I visited that a Chinook could not find a suitable landing spot close by.

Nepal denies entry to three British Chinook helicopters - Channel NewsAsia (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/nepal-denies-entry-to/1837970.html)

I wonder if the Nepali Government was listening to this Bokan bloke.
He should know better. I feel very sorry for the villagers in dire straits waiting for aid after this.

Tankertrashnav

16th May 2015, 22:33

Steven Bruce Bokan, chief flying instructor for Nepalese helicopter company Manang Air, said the British Chinooks and US Ospreys were "basically useless" in the Himalayas.
"They may work in deserts and other places which have huge areas for landing and take-off, but they are too big to land in the Himalayas," Bokan told AFP.

Sorry typerated but the QFI of Manang Air disagrees with you and if he says they can't land anywhere in the Himalayas, then he must be right and obviously we are all wrong!

Danny, you and I have both admitted we are both ignorant of helicopter operations, so we should wind our necks in. The fact that we both appear to have a certain amount of common sense, along with others on here, has got nothing to do with it!

Whenurhappy

17th May 2015, 06:20

I pity the poor DA and ADA who have probably been working this issue for a week with the HOM - waiting for meetings with ministers, constant phone calls, delays at the Foreign Ministry, Note verbales to the Prime Ministry, reams of unecessary paperwork faxed (yes, probably faxed) to the Customs Ministry...massive pressure from PJHQ and DfID to 'get a move on'...and the losers are the people of Nepal.

mmitch

17th May 2015, 10:45

Diplomatic relations with China started in 1955, with the UK in 1816.
This was the year after the Gurkhas joined the army. They certainly put politics above saving lives.
mmitch.

Heathrow Harry

17th May 2015, 11:38

Somebody has obviously put the Nepalese authrotites noses wayyyyy out of joint - did we actually ask them if they wanted the RAF????

no doubt it wil all seep out here eventually

Cows getting bigger

17th May 2015, 12:00

When I were a lad we used to shove Pumas in the Antonov/C17 for this type of job.

ralphmalph

17th May 2015, 19:28

I did hear that the return of the CH-47's was due to a dire shortage of hotel accommodation for the 300 strong "detachment" (which included a PTI) and suitable aircrew rations.

Puma boys job all the way….shame they are in Kabul!

Or, you could have tried those pumpers Teeny Weeny Airways, Gash gits..

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/army-helicopters-arrive-in-the-philippines

chinook240

18th May 2015, 10:22

"Puma boys job all the way…."

Poor Ralph, if only you knew the truth.

Cows getting bigger

18th May 2015, 10:34

Chinook240, you forget that this sort of job has absolutely nothing to do with capability. It's all about political flag waving and a slot on the 10 O'clock news. :ugh:

NutLoose

18th May 2015, 11:29

This Bokan chap also seems to have missed to point you do not actually have to land, you can shove it off the ramp, If you can deliver aid from the air from a Herc, you can do the same from a Chinook.
The sad thing is the people that are in the most need are those that do not get a say.
To not try it first before saying this won't work is just barking mad.

mmitch

19th May 2015, 10:04

Steve Bokan is 'Vertical Freedom' over on Rotorheads. He seems to think that Chinooks would be more useful than Ospreys too.
http://www.pprune.org/8981651-post26.html
mmitch.

Lonewolf_50

19th May 2015, 13:07

Steve Bokan is 'Vertical Freedom' over on Rotorheads. He seems to think that Chinooks would be more useful than Ospreys too.
http://www.pprune.org/8981651-post26.html
mmitch.
The Ospreys were able to "self deploy" via AAR ... a handy feature.

Tiger Tales

19th May 2015, 18:51

"Puma boys job all the way…."

Poor Ralph, if only you knew the truth.

Do tell......

Hoots

20th May 2015, 12:10

As expected Steve was grossly misquoted, read the rotorheads forum. He was referring to the osprey and not the chinook, seems like someone will go to any extreme to stop chinooks providing the aid that is desperately required

mmitch

20th May 2015, 14:35

The RAF website mentions that a C130J that also went out is delivering aid in remote areas.
RAF Caught in Second Nepal Earthquake (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/raf-caught-in-second-nepal-earthquake-20052015)
mmitch.