AA pilot to pax: "You can't see the stripes"?

[planckepoch]

Do all American Airlines pilot have this type of attitude? I was at DFW Terminal D18 last Friday for a trip to Seattle. AA canceled my flight at the very last moment, ruined a one-day trip that I had meticulously planned months ahead of time, AA refused to rebook me even on sister carriers or non-direct routes, and then AA refused to offer any refund or credit back and then had the audacity to proceed to continue to charge me extra money for the nonexistent premium aisles seats that never materialized on the plane that was never sent and never showed up, for a flight that was canceled but not rescheduled.

No one from AA called me to rebook flights. I received a terse last minute email stating that the flight AA2449 was canceled, and that if I had questions to call their 800 number. The number ended up being an automated answering machine that said agents were too busy, and instead of putting in on hold or in a queue it would force-ably hang up and disconnect on me each time I called. So I had no choice but to wait in line at their customer service in hopes of speaking with someone in person.

The funny thing is later we found out that they actually never even sent the plane. Since the flight from DFW to SEA is about four or five hours, AA must have known way ahead of time that there was no way AA2449 from DFW to SEA would be able to make it. Since it was AA who never even dispatched the plane in the first place, yet they still sent me fraudulent "on time" notices all the way up to almost the last minute prior to boarding, directly depriving me of the reasonable opportunity to seek other travel options and arrangements, perhaps even last minute books with other airlines.

Dallas being one of AA's major hubs, I was surprised to find out that they only had one customer service center at Terminal D and it was only at Gate 24. At the time it was manned by one only AA rep and then later on increased to a measly grand total of two AA customer service agents. The line was literally hundreds of people long and I stood for two hours before speaking with anyone from AA.

Finally when it was my turn, I encountered a rude customer service agent (Connie) who stated that she didn't want to deal with me and called for a manager. When the "manager" finally arrived he wouldn't tell me his first name (badge only said Mr. M) and stated that I had purchased a standard fare which was a non-refundable ticket. He admitted that there was no flights they could put me on that night. I told him if they couldn't get me out there would be no point in my still going and that I wanted a refund. He then proceeded to shove me a piece of paper with another 800 number for me to call once I got home.

I was effectively turned away without being helped, without being rebooked, and without given any credit or refund. As irony would have it, on my way out of the airport, at around Gate D18, I saw what appeared to be an AA representative at one of the gates /counters that didn't have a long line. Having been tired and exhausted, I still wanted to ask one last time and perhaps give it one more attempt. When approaching the counter, I realized the AA personnel was repeatedly pointing to what appears to be his watch, but he was wearing one of those over-sized jackets and it would have covered any watch that he would have worn. It seemed like he was pointing to the time, but I was tired and confused and so approached closer to ask him if he could help me out. It was then that he remarked that he was a pilot, and before I could even apologize for misidentification he retorted: "you don't see the stripes?" while angrily pointing at his long sleeve. I bet he treats the flight attendants the same way. The guy forgets that it is because of the passengers that he even has a job or a profession in the first place. Why do AA pilots have this sense of conceited self-entitlement and haughty "I'm too good for you" attitude?

When I finally got home and called the 800 number that the AA "manager" M had given to me on a piece of paper, I found that it was an invalid number! Go figure. I then called Orbitz (I originally booked the AA flight on Orbitz online) and spoke with an Orbitz rep who tried to contact AA on my behalf to give me a refund, only to find out from the Orbitz rep. that AA was going to put Orbitz on an hour hold so he told me sorry but he wasn't able to be on hold for AA for one hour. I also went online to AA website to file a complaint and to request customer service via an online form but never heard back.

To add insult to injury, I woke up the next morning to find out that not only did not give me any credit or refund, they proceeded to charge my bank card for an additional extra charge of $50 (beyond the base ticket fare that I already paid for) for nonexistent "premium" aisles seats that never materialized on the plane that was never sent and never showed up, for a flight that was canceled but not rescheduled.

[alserire]

Wow. Not that I live in that part of the world but if I'm travelling domestic in the US ever again I won't go AA.

Aren't they One World Alliance? That's pretty shocking.

[7of9]

I booked my flight last year,with USAir for a trip to USA in 6 weeks time.
USAir have now become AA since!
I hope I don't get crap service now as the flight numbers have changed to AA from AWE which was USAir.
I am flying from Manchester UK to St Louis via Philadelphia. Done this trip 10times now with only one instance of problems which was last year when the PHL to STL leg got cancelled due to weather issues, USAir were great! They put us on the early morning flight next day & in a hotel for the night at their expense.

I do hope they resolve your issue.

If I get any problems with my vacation flights it will be the last time I use this carrier!

[planckepoch]

It totally came out of the blue... Based on months of flight records, there was a reasonable expectation of the flight being on time and no indication and no statistically reasonable basis to believe that my flight would ending up getting canceled. I had set up alerts, AA emailed me all the way up to one hour prior to boarding that everything was "on time" then suddenly emailed me stating that flight was canceled.

[planckepoch]

AA never called me. The only thing I ever got from them was an email stating flight is canceled and that IF I had any questions that I could call the 800 number.

I did call the 800 number numerous times at the airport that night, the automated message system dropped my call and hanged up and disconnected on me each and every time.

That is why I had to stand in line for TWO hours at D24. Only to be shoved a piece of paper with another 800 number after the AA rep refused to help me and escalated to a "manager". The "manager" might as well have been the paperboy because all he did was shove me a piece of paper. And I'm thinking to myself, I waited in line two hours for this?

No one offered to rebook me. No one contacted me back. AA repeatedly refused any refunds. My calls to that 800 number didn't go through. I submitted a compliant online via the online form and have never heard back.

https://soundcloud.com/user832863127/aa-cancels-flight-refuses-refund-for-one-day-return-flight-hangs-up-on-support-calls



http://oi57.tinypic.com/2zsxy8m.jpg

[highflyer40]

Just playing devils advocate because I was not there so... But maybe if it was a later departure there were NO other routings that could get you there that night, so they couldn't put you on another flight. The customer service agents can't give refunds, and there is sure no way you would ever have a refund credited back to you by the next morning . You will get your full refund , and I think this may have been a case of heads colliding... You have already stated there were hundreds of people in front of you and after an hour you got to speak to someone, so imagine what frame of mind they are in after being yelled at by hundreds of people, now you are also tired and irritable and well it isn't hard to see how things can deteriorate

[PAXboy]

Wow planckepoch. That's some bad luck! Unfortunately, one of the things we see (via this forum) is that many carriers and airports keep up the 'on time' until it is long past 'time'. There are complex reasons why they do this.

One of them can be that the aircraft to operate your flight might not have been the inbound from SEA. It could have been another inbound route, or a machine coming out from an overnight maintenance check. So jus tlooking at the paired flight number is not always reliable.

I agree that you are likely to get your money back and wait a few days before shouting further.

All of that said, I think the pilot did AA a big disservice. He could have said, "I'm sorry but, I'm flight crew. I can see a member of our ground staff over at desk #."

[Metro man]

They treat their domestic passengers like this and complain when people choose to fly Emirates instead when they go abroad.

As the Americans say "Go figure"

[TowerDog]

Sounds like a horror story.
Everything went wrong and then some.
You were lied to, AA were rude and you got screwed...:sad:

I work for AA.
We try to take care of problems, nobody is out to screw pax and lie cheat and steal.
DFW is a big base and many times there is spare planes to be substituted if an incoming goes tech. Sometimes it is seamless. Other times weather and ATC kicks in to throw sand in the machinery and a domino effect could happen.
Things are scheduled pretty tight to keep cost down. After all, pax demands rock bottom ticket prices and by God, they also want First Class service even if things go wrong at the lowest price possible.

As for the Captain pointing to his stripes: Don't blame the airline or company policies for that.
I have been behind the counter hundreds of times to use the computer and pull up flight plans, or just check my schedule, then pax come cruising up to the counter to get a boarding card, ask for gates or bitch about something. We are very used to it and the standard response is: Please talk to the agent, he (she) should be here shortly.
Or I just point to the Agent at the next gate 30 feet away and say: Talk to him, he knows everything..
If you have been around airports a few times you should be able to recognize a uniformed pilot, stripes and all.
If not, look for an ID badge with big letters saying CREW, if still in doubt, look for hat and / or stripes. If all of the above indicates you are looking at a pilot, he or she just may be one.
If you still think this is a gate agent, wait until he / she is looking up from the computer screen and says: Can I help you as he / she is reaching out for your boarding pass or your ID / passport.
(If that does not happen, it just may be a crew member behind the counter getting an update on his / her schedule, or checking the latest weather, whatever)
Best of luck next time.

[MarkerInbound]

The Dallas/Fort Worth area was hammered with thunderstorms last Friday. I was on their 8:30 departure from Houston to DFW. The aircraft came down from DFW and was 30 minutes late. Just as they were ready to board the FAA imposed a ground stop for DFW arrivals. The ground stop was extended hour by hour until early afternoon. When that happens all the airline can do is react. They can plan to have some aircraft arrive to send outbound but when the ground stop is extended that plan goes out the window. And after a few hours crews start running out of duty time. The 8:30 departure finally departed at 3pm. Driving home from the airport I ran into another line of storms with 50-60 mph winds that produced tornadoes south of Dallas. Some days were not meant for flying.


That being said, I don't think your experience would have been much different if you had been on Delta if Atlanta was shutdown or United if Chicago was closed.

[Hotel Tango]

Poor attitude by gate agents is not uncommon in the USA and is certainly not exclusive to AA. I won't bore you with the details but I was recently very disappointed (putting it mildly) by the somewhat rude attitude of a couple of Delta staff at FLL. One, a gate agent, even had the audacity of accusing me of lying! And this was on a First Class ticket! These agents are paid peanuts and I guess the provision of common courtesy has a price which is no longer paid.

[jacjetlag]

Blame the $89 fare as the root cause.

Only so much service can be provided when thousands of pax are paying bottom dollar.

Should it all have been handled better? Of course. After 35 years in this business, I can honestly say this will occur at even the "best airline" on any given day.

To answer your leading question, most AA pilots (I am one) I know would bend over backwards to help you.

[obgraham]

I think your experience has become the norm for our US main line carriers.

I also no longer book through web agencies like Orbitz, Expedia, Travelocity, etc. If something goes haywire, the airlines will not make accommodation for seats booked that way.

Finally, it's a mistake to look for a "customer service desk". They no longer exist. When there is a change or cancellation, immediately call the 800 number, which you have previously located and entered into your phone, and get in the phone queue. You're much more likely to succeed this way, and if you look about, that's what most of the frequent travelers are doing.

[Wino]

I would further add that as a pilot we have NO ability to actually help you. Just direct you to people that can help you.

You see us pounding away on a computer terminal and it looks like we are using the same system but we are not. Gate agents work in a partition of the grand central AA computer system called "RES". We work in something called "DECS" and though they are accessed from the same terminal, they are completely different computer systems, as each group is solving its own problems.

So we can tell you what a gate a flight is leaving from, but beyond that not so much. Furthermore, if we are at a computer terminal pounding away, we are concentrating on safety of flight issues related to our OWN flight. We are not playing tetris, surfing PPRUNE, looking at facebook, or browsing news. Distractions caused by passengers asking us things that we cannot help you with are actually a risk to flight safety. There are a LOT of calculations and considerations that go into generating or verifying a flight plan is both safe and legal, and concentration breaks are, quite frankly, detrimental to safety.

If flights are canceling, usually something is going on that is completely transparent to you as a passenger. Even if you get an explanation, its is invariably only part of the story. But it also means that our (as pilots pulling flight plans) work and stress levels are probably MUCH higher. (Airways have closed, weather at the destination, MEL issues with our own aircraft, running out of duty time, etc) All the while, people are walking up to you breaking your concentration, while you are making decisions that can truly be life and death while also under a severe time constraint. (My flight is leaving in X minutes, plus I have to find food for myself as well as handle all of my own paperwork). IF pilots are at a computer in the terminal where you can see us, we are most certainly already extremely time compressed, or we would have gone to Operations and done it in a less harried environment.

So I am sorry if you were not dealt with quickly, and I do apologize for a lack of staffing to meet your needs. Furthermore, I realize by definition every travel experience cannot be perfect, though we all wish it was. But some consideration and thought before jumping all over some already harried pilot whose job it is to get you there safely is ALSO in order.

[7of9]

The 1-800 number is ok if you are a U.S. Citizen with a U.S. Phone, not good for us international visitors who would need a mortgage to phone it & wait in the que for an agent to become free to deal with you.
Last year our flight got cancelled at PHL, a customer service agent sorted us out with next day flights & hotel, but I asked if I could ring the guys meeting us to stop them going to STL to meet us as it's an hour & a half travel from their home to airport, I was told I couldn't use the phone, so had to use my UK phone! Cost more than I would have liked!
Prepared this year, I got a us PAYG phone just in case.

:ugh:

[Wino]

7 of 9

When traveling abroad set up a skype account, or something thereabouts (I am not actually advertising skype, I just use that as a verb to refer to internet calling)

Then from your Iphone or Ipad or similar wifi internet device (find a starbucks or a macdonalds, they are everywhere in the world) you can internet call for a few pennies.

However, getting a cellphone locally is certainly a more robust and better plan, as long as you aren't country hopping. I haven't found a good solution for that yet...

[7of9]

Wifi wasn't working in the terminal I was in at the time, I did however get in touch via FaceTime off the iPad at the hotel which saved me a bit.
It was that initial phone call to stop them leaving I had to do.
As I said I am prepared this time, 13 trips over there in 13 years, that was the first time I had had a big hold up! Been lucky I guess.

Weather can play havoc, I know as I am a PPL, I like flying while over there & have to keep a look out for your ever changing weather while I fly.:ok:

[RevMan2]

Wino's response was sort-of OK up until

But some consideration and thought before jumping all over some already harried pilot whose job it is to get you there safely is ALSO in order.

You're a passenger whose flight has been cancelled, you've been given ZERO assistance after waiting for 2 hours and you see someone in uniform - not immediately identifiable as flight deck - behind a desk and go to ask a question.

As a passenger, I don't see that as "jumping all over someone"

As a company employee, it's YOUR JOB to provide as much information as you can to a passenger, even if it's only "I'm sorry, I can't actually help you, but here's someone who can"

Whether you're a check-in agent, ops agent, pilot or senior management.

I talk from some experience in the latter role....

[EMB-145LR]

Wino, I'm also a pilot in the US. Granted I'm a lowly regional puke, but it is this sort of attitude that I see on a daily basis from many of my colleagues that is resultant in our industry constantly being ranked one of the lowest in terms of customer satisfaction in the US. I am astounded by the ongoing arrogance of some of our pilots in this country, and I hate to say it, but more often that not it is those who are flying the heavier metal that are the worst offenders. Taking ten seconds to direct someone elsewhere isn't going to disrupt our day too much. Granted, I know that once I answer one person's query I often end up with a number of others asking questions, but at the end of the day it is those people that fly with us who pay our wages.

I consider myself extremely fortunate to soon be leaving my current job to start with British Airways. A huge part of my interview process was based on customer service and what we, as pilots, can do to make our passenger's journeys easier and more pleasant. BA has in fact gone above and beyond on this point, introducing it's customer service 'hallmarks' to ensure that flight deck crew are more visible to passengers and offer assistance, no matter how small, when required. This is something passengers directly told BA that they would like to see. It is something I think we should desperately be looking to introduce on this side of the Atlantic too.

Without doubt the lack of proper staffing, poor gate agent attitudes and tough working conditions make our jobs tough at times in the US, but a bit of common courtesy and pointing someone in the right direction is a small act that has a big impact on our customer's perception.

'planckepoch', I'm sorry for your negative experience. I would tell you to try flying with United or Delta instead, but alas I don't think your experience would be much different. The US industry is coasting on record profits and appalling customer service. Unfortunately I don't see it changing any time soon.

[Wino]

REV man

If I am not banging away at a computer I will GLADLY help anyone. If I am doing complex calculating in my head and working an old fortran computer system at the same time, I might very well get short with you. Sorry, it really is a safety of flight issue.


CRM is all about breaking the mistake chain at its earliest point. The earliest point is flight planning (well some would say bidding...), and something that is sort of taken for granted these days. If a pilot is at a computer and someone interrupts him, it is a flight risk. maybe a small one, maybe a large one. If that pilot is flying Dallas-Austin for the 4th time today a pretty small one. If he's about to roll off 3 or 4000 miles including an ETOPS leg a much greater one.

Sadly there aren't enough computers or remote "Mini OPS" where these things can be done out of the view of the public. There should be, but that costs money. Furthermore Flight planning software should ALSO be in plain english, but sadly the 40 year old computers that run most airlines in the USA (and FAA) are not. So its all fortran or worse.

If the pax had waited quietly when the pilot working the computer was done I'm sure he would have addressed his need in a courteous manner. I don't know any pilot who would not. I do know a few who get short when interrupted in front of the computer, and if they are of the type that prefers not to multi task, far better to be short with the pax, then make a mistake in the flight planning. Dead passengers never come back, everyone else (sadly or fortunately depending on your POV) comes back for the next fare sale...

Frankly if management would spend some more dosh to make sure ALL flight planning was done in an OPS or on your own personal computer rather than in the terminal in front of the pax (A totally unacceptable method) we wouldn't be having this conversation and safety would improve. In this day an age a few pennies a ticket would pay to push equip all IPADs with cellular and push the flight planning software over the air to the IPAD.

And furthermore, I too have been on both sides management, Union and pilot... Customer service is important, but it is SECONDARY to safety.

[PAXboy]

Wino has given the ansswer to one problem. Mgmt see all those terminals notbeing used all the time and think, "Oooo, we don't have to have a separate room for flight crew, they can use those terminals." Bad idea.

I can understand that, in emergency, you should be able to log on via ANY terminal but you need a private room for that process.

[farci]

When traveling abroad set up a skype account, or something thereabouts (I am not actually advertising skype, I just use that as a verb to refer to internet calling)

Then from your Iphone or Ipad or similar wifi internet device (find a starbucks or a macdonalds, they are everywhere in the world) you can internet call for a few pennies.

However, getting a cellphone locally is certainly a more robust and better plan, as long as you aren't country hopping. I haven't found a good solution for that yet...

Cheers
Wino Agree that you can use your own cell and internet but try the Boingo Mobile plan (http://www2.boingo.com/wifi-plans/mobile/boingo-mobile/) for $7.95/month which gives you access at more places than coffee shops in many countries. It's monthly so cancellable

[misd-agin]

"Can I help you?" It goes a loooooonnn n g way.

And without a hat a pilot behind a counter is just a guy in a dark suit. Sort of like what an agent looks like behind a counter.

[Halfnut]

Passengers are willing to fork over four dollars for a bottle of water at a sports venue to see their favorite team play and they are willing to pay five dollars for a cup of coffee but when it comes to an airline ticket they won't pay an extra five buck for the ticket.

That extra five dollars used to pay for increased airport staffing, extra parts to fix planes, crew members sitting reserve, mechanics to fix planes, etc, etc, etc.

The continued spiral towards service quality equal to Aeroflot can be laid directly at the passengers feet in their constant quest to achieve the lowest ticket price possible.

[RevMan2]

@Wino

It's all about customer service attitude - would YOU accept it if you were in Macys/Avis and a clerk ignored you while doing something behind a counter?

"Be with you in a minute" solves the problem.

And the Dead passengers never come back argument is specious beyond words

[Rwy in Sight]

Halfnut

When I get sub 100 €/$ for a three and a half hour flight I am willing to pay those additional 5 currency units (€/$ ) to provide better working conditions for the crew and slightly better services for me. The problem is that I don't have the option.


@Wino,

I believe that interruptions are parts of everyones job. You work in an office completing a report and a call comes and you have to take it. A doctor examines a patient and the nurse walks in with an emergency request. I would be very concerned for a pilot that he can't cope with some interruptions during his flight planning. Although I agree that once he spends a moment with a pax a line will be formed.

[Ancient Mariner]

For the above reasons, and years of personal experience I'll never voluntarily set foot on a US plane again.
In contrast, 6 family members and I have booked a flight OSL-MNL with BA/CX/KA/QA for a June/July vacation. Cheap as dirt at GBP 410/head.
Two persons are gluten intolerant, one a child and I wanted to request meals accordingly. No problem on QX website, problem with QA.
Email to QA customer service in the evening, very polite reply next morning, all fixed. :ok:
From a pax view, nothing but good experience with the Gulf Carriers, the less said about the US ones the better.

[obgraham]

Mariner, I know that by and large you are not a fan of things American. But in this case you are correct in your loathing.

The US airline industry is now where the automobile industry was several decades ago. Providing an abominable product/service, complacent in their lack of service -- "customer be damned".

The auto companies were brought up short when the Japanese and then Korean companies learned quality control, produced a superior and more reliable vehicle and even spent some effort on customer satisfaction. Eventually they got the message, but by then a large percentage of the customer base was lost to the foreign companies.

The same thing must happen in the airline business in order for US "legacy carriers" to either wake up, or go out of business.

[Ancient Mariner]

Obgraham, by and large I'm a fan of most things American. Cars from the '50ies and '60'ies in particular. I've visited more times than I can remember since '69 to date, by car from Vancouver to San Diego on vacation in '90, but even then I did not enjoy our flights Newark-Seattle, San Diego-Miami, Orlando-Newark. Delta, if memory serves.
And yes, even spent a week in Disney World on that occasion. ;)

[PAXboy]

Unfortunate but interesting.

American Airlines planes grounded by iPad app error - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32513066)

[skyhighfallguy]

so this happened to you a few days ago and you have not yet been able to talk to anyone at American Airlines?

Have you called your credit card company for redress?


Do you think you would have a better experience by booking through the airline's site instead of orbitz?

Pilots do not book people on planes. And while it is sort of tacky to point to stripes , it sort of reminds me of a waitress pointing to a statement on a menu like: NO SUBSTITUTIONS.

You planned a flight. It didn't work out quite right. OK. Are you saying you will not possibly get your money back, ever, even in the next billing cycle?


Did you purchase trip insurance?


Did you ask Orbitz for the phone number they used as they seemed to at least get the promise of human contact in an hour?


One time I was flying (as one of those guys with 4 stripes on his sleeve) from New York to Ft Lauderdale . We were delayed due to wx (that's weather) and ATC coping with weather.

A passenger came up to me and said: Are we going to be late? I am catching a cruise and if we are even two hours late I will miss it. What will YOU do if I miss it?

I said: If you really had to be in Fort Lauderdale, I would have left yesterday and spent the night in a hotel in Fort Lauderdale. NOTHING in aviation is guaranteed.

He then went on to say that the cruise would not make sense if he had to leave the day before. Economics would not make sense if he had to buy a hotel room.

I felt sorry for him. I feel sorry for you. But you seem to be blowing your stack to people who don't know you.

Maybe next time you will fly another airline. But you might just find a worse experience.

Weather, mechanical issues, dozens of things. You could have taken off on time for your trip and an engine failure might have left you in some airport you have never heard of. You would have been taken care of but your trip might have not been a success.


Now, I hope you have the chance to talk to an agent at American that will go through your options. And remember, you booked with orbits and they wouldn't stay on the line to help you.

BUT when I travel, I leave plenty of time to have options on other flights.

I hope you post when you finally talk to someone who helps you. At some point you can even grieve the credit card charge if the service was not rendered.

There is a great movie, the original (jack lemmon) version , of "The Out of Towners". I suggest you watch it, and learn from it.

We don't control the weather. At any moment another 9-11 attack could happen and all civilian flights in the country could be grounded for days.

DO you want great service? Pay for first class. Pay for a class of ticket that can be used anytime.


The passengers in America wanted cheap flights. you got em. But don't expect the service of 20 or 30 or 40 years ago.

Pilots, flight attendants, hordes of workers have taken pay cuts, lost their pensions, and other terrible things and you expect to be treated like you are a king?

HAVE you called back today for help? Have you gotten on the phone to your credit card company and ask what they can do?

You seem "tech savy" go to Twitter, post a short version of what happened on the American Airlines twitter site and they will get back to you.

And a word to the wise. Next time you have a problem, go up to an agent, say "HI, my flight was cancelled, what can we do ?". Nothing more, nothing less. they will ask you for your ticket or flight number and work.

Let us all know.

[skyhighfallguy]

dear original poster:

you said "THEY NEVER EVEN SENT THE PLANE". And you speak of the time of the flight between DFW and SEA.

Do you know where the plane was coming from? Do you know if there was a last minute substitution?

There are simply so many things that make an airline work and I'll wager you only think you know how an airline works.

AGAIN, report back when things have calmed down and you call again

[obgraham]

That was a very nice rant, Fallguy, and I hope you feel better for it.

But all the excuses in the world, even the ones you list, don't justify the attitude with which service is provided to US airline customers these days. Other industries have learned how to manage customer service -- airlines are late to the dance.

That said, I have to admit that I have seldom encountered surly, arrogant, or noncaring attitudes from flight crews, who in my opinion work very hard to do the professional job they are trained for in a work environment that must be very difficult for them.

But gate agents and cabin crew these days: not so much.

[Rwy in Sight]

I love to hear the explanation about how special aviation industry is and why its customers must suffer in silence because airlines don't have serious back up plans and crews are overworked.

Just a question if you had ordered let's say a computer, car or any other good that seriously fail the specifications promised. Would you cut the manufacturer and or the reseller the same slack you are asking paying public to cut to the airline industry?

Having said that, I do understand thinks go wrong but as an aviation magazine said in early 90's it is the way an airline handles disruptions that put it apart. Otherwise much of a muchness.

[highflyer40]

Not like for like. You are not buying goods, but transport on public transport . So it would be more like comparing it to take the bus/coach or the tube/subway

[Ancient Observer]

Polite, decent, service

Is it too much to ask for polite, decent service out of airlines?

OK, many are not as well paid as they used to be. But millions of people around the world on poor salaries manage to give service with a smile.

The blame, though, lies clearly with the management of the Companies.

Try the "Pronoun" test on airlines. (I do it every time I fly).

If the person you are talking to says "we/us" about their employer, they are connected to their employer. If they say "they/them", then they are disconnected.

Even with awful salaries, and awful terms and benefits, many employers manage to get their staff on-board.

The USA based airlines have terrible problems with this.

That bad culture problem starts at the top.

[Rwy in Sight]

highflyer40,

Thanks. I feel the arguments still stands if one wants to compare waiting for the A5 bus that never comes and the PR person in the bus company says so it is so hard to run a bus company so please leave us alone.

Would the pilot still say it is ok?

[skyhighfallguy]

rwy in sight

the airline industry has more back up plans than any civilian industry I can think of, except perhaps the electrical generation by nuclear power folks.

Overworked crews? Believe it or not crew duty times have been reduced by federal regulation. And most major airlines are hiring new pilots for a variety of reasons.

The question about the pilot and his response made me think. Perhaps he was pointing to his stripes so that he wouldn't have to yell across 30 feet HEY DUMMY I AM A PILOT AN DON"T KNOW HOW TO REBOOK YOU>

I would like to think even the most casual of travelers can tell the difference between a pilot and a ticket agent.


In all seriousness, would you ask a ticket agent who was on the plane, to land the plane if the pilots got sick? You could ask, but would you really think that they were trained to land the plane. Well, pilots are not trained to rebook. And pilots often use non verbal language like POINTING. Sometimes we do it in the cockpit for various things.


The main problem is the original poster expected everything to go perfectly. Most often planes do run on time and things go well. And you will almost always be treated the way you treat an airline worker.


IF the original poster had been given another flight 24 hours later it would not have worked for him.


To the poster who spoke of my reaction to getting served a bad product in some other industry, unless my life depended on it, I would be mildly inconvenienced . And I would get redress from the company in due time.

But come on. IF he had to get to Seattle, he could have driven to LUV field and tried to get there somehow via another airline. Things didn't work out and even ORBITs wouldn't go the extra mile for him.

Hey, even former president clinton just had an engine problem and things didn't go right.

Still waiting to hear from OP about a call today to get a refund.

[easyflyer83]

I'm slightly patronised when people think that cabin crew (and even pilots ) are poorly paid. Even with reduced salaries, pilots are still pretty well paid and as a CC (albeit with a senior position) in the UK, I earn 30K (GBP) a year. Far from being low paid. Average UK pay being 26k.

The AA pilot clearly had attitude, he was probably horrified at being mistaken for a gate agent, such is the job snobbery in the US.

[Stanwell]

Re the attitude of the AA pilot, I reckon easyflyer83 hit the nail on the head.


Question: "Don't you know who I am?"
Response: "Erm... No, I'm sorry, I don't..... but, I do know WHAT you are!" :E

[bubbers44]

Pilots and Flight Attendants get blamed for a lot of things out of their control because we are the most visible link to the company when passengers board the aircraft. We share the frustration because most of us want to do a good job and get you to your destination on time.

I have had my plane taken many times to cover another flight and waited also seeing our intended aircraft taxiing out and we have a two hour delay for the rescheduled aircraft. As the pilot I complained to the Chief Pilot that this happened often enough for our lower priority destination which I normally flew that I felt like we were flying a standby aircraft we could use if no one else needed it.

He appologized but said dispatch has to reschedule aircraft to keep things flowing as smoothly as possible.

Always leave time when flying for these kind of delays.

[deptrai]

if AA is too slow to deal with you and credit you what they owe you, and it is their fault, call your credit card company hotline to ask for a refund, be ready to back it up with evidence, and in my experience credit card companies are lightning quick to give a refund, it costs them nothing, they'll do a clawback from the merchant and AA will comply, with a small penalty for AA, credit card companies have them by the balls with their solid T&C's, and you might even do AA a favor by not exhausting their capacities to deal with pax

your situation sounds horrible...all that being said, I've personally seen some horror stories...like stranded passengers waiting for their connecting flight in a foreign country after a flag carrier went bankrupt, including many first class passengers (real first class, not what US airlines refer to as first) with a 10'000 USD fully flexible old fashioned IATA ticket that supposedly could easily get rebooked even with other carriers, asking "partner" airlines in the same "alliance" if they would honor it...uhm no sorry. So for those who are blaming cheap fares, in the worst case, having thrown money at an airline won't help. Compassionate former employees who had just lost their job, and others too, at least tried their best to bring blankets and water bottles for the most needy who slept over at the airport, in the general confusion of task saturation.

and sometimes, you can get treated like royalty. One time my incoming intercontinental flight was late, and I had mentally already given up arriving on time at my final destination, but cabin crew asked me to get ready to be the first at the door, where I was greeted by a friendly female driver who led me down to the apron, drove me in a nice BMW to a VIP passport control (the real deal, not gold/platinum/premium/funny frequent flyer line thing, the passport control with no line at all), and after that directly to my connecting flight, that had been waiting. I was a bit puzzled, and in my confusion about all this goodness I asked the cabin crew who welcomed me, "with this 10 minute transfer, for sure my luggage will be delayed". "Wait a moment, I'll ask the pilots, they know". "rest assured, it's on board". whoa, they had sent another car. I figure I was lucky they had the capacity to do all that, it seemed like they bent over backwards. It's not something you can expect, but it can happen, just like an unfortunate situation can happen. And as bubbers said, employees want to do a good job.

[Mark in CA]

According to Flightstats, your flight was cancelled at 17:21 DFW time, 1:19 before the scheduled departure time of 18:40 DFW time.

From what I can see, Alaska and American each have one flight to SEA after that time at 19:55 and 21:45, respectively. There are some connecting flights, but all that I saw (two) had travel times greater than 13 hours. Not many alternative for that route at that hour.

[Halfnut]

planckepoch,

Let me guess, you booked AA through Orbitz because AA was the cheapest flight?

[west lakes]

Dunno about US rules but if the ticket is booked through a 3rd party (Orbitz in this case) surly any refund is due from them and not the airline.

Certainly is over here

[skyhighfallguy]

I ask again that the original poster inform us if he has received a refund. If he does not indicate anything soon, I will guess he got his money back and has left the building.

[RevMan2]

@halfnut
Let me guess, you booked AA through Orbitz because AA was the cheapest flight?
And there is something wrong with that?
In a commodity market with no or few differentiating factors ( = US domestic market), people go with price.
Or do you pay 30c a gallon more for gas just because you like the logo...?

[FLCH]

I was in Oslo last week getting breakfast at the hotel with my crew, had my uniform on and was asked by one of the patrons if there were any more eggs were coming as the current batch had run out, I replied that sorry I didn't work there but I'm sure the eggs would be there soon, the expression on his face was priceless when he realized he was asking an airline pilot.

Not all of us are arrogant self centered individuals like some of you infer, we may be tired getting into the hotel or on the back side of the clock or both, we can simply be irritated at people asking questions that with a little thought can be resolved.

I thought the op was just a rant at the airline and the bit about the pilot was a tasty tidbit at the end.

Rant away its your right, but as you as a population you have demanded the lowest fares possible,you get what you pay for but that won't stop any professional pilot from making sure that we will do our jobs to get you where you want to go in the safest possible manner at the same time trying to make sure the company that employs us remains an ongoing concern.

[Eboy]

The pilot is an :mad: and could use some social skills training. Other than that, what you describe does not strike me as unusual for U.S. travel on the major airlines, in my same unfortunate experience.

[Reverserbucket]

"the expression on his face was priceless when he realized he was asking an airline pilot."


I think that's quite a revealing observation FLCH - perhaps the expression on his face was because he realised he'd mistaken you for hotel staff and clearly you wouldn't be expected to know the status of the eggs, rather than he was addressing a member of the winged master-race ;). I see North American flight and cabin crew in hotels all over the world (as well as airports) and to be honest, few ever strike me as being particularly approachable or likely to want to answer a query...and that's usually before I've noticed they are airline personnel.


But..as someone who is frequently asked where the toilets are...which bus goes to the Holiday Inn...where can I claim back my VAT...where's the gate for "British Air" etc...I find you have to take it in your stride, regardless of how pushed for time you may be or focussed in the interest of 'your customers' safety and security'; members of the public, by and large find airports somewhat stressful environments and will ask questions of anyone they manage to identify in a uniform, and as a uniform wearing ambassador for your company, I would expect that. I will absolutely always attempt to answer a question to the best of my ability even if that is only so far as to direct someone to a more competent person who might know the answer (particularly in supermarkets and public lavatories), rather in the same way FLCH did at the breakfast buffet. Aircrew, and pilot's in particular are considered to be customer facing, intelligent and responsible individuals who should surely recognise the adoration laid onto them by their fare-paying public who, have strayed into their environment - even if it is only shown by the asking of an occasional question (albeit erroneously) ;).


I have also experienced a similar high standard of customer service as experienced by deptrai at both IAD and ORD with UAL in recent years following tight connections off of long-haul sectors. Couldn't have done more for me and left me both a little surprised but also delighted - they went out of their way when they didn't have to and that made a big difference to me.

[FGE319]

But..as someone who is frequently asked where the toilets are...which bus goes to the Holiday Inn...where can I claim back my VAT...where's the gate for "British Air" etc...I find you have to take it in your stride, regardless of how pushed for time you may be or focussed in the interest of 'your customers' safety and security'; members of the public, by and large find airports somewhat stressful environments and will ask questions of anyone they manage to identify in a uniform, and as a uniform wearing ambassador for your company, I would expect that.

I had an FR pax ask how to use the check-in machine at STN the other morning (I work for another airline), had 2 minutes spare so showed them.

A little politeness goes a long way sometimes, and if I have time I'll always try to make 2 minutes to answer a question properly if I know the answer.

I have also experienced a similar high standard of customer service as experienced by deptrai at both IAD and ORD with UAL in recent years following tight connections off of long-haul sectors. Couldn't have done more for me and left me both a little surprised but also delighted - they went out of their way when they didn't have to and that made a big difference to me.

Would it make you use UAL again?

This is why the above applies for me, for the airline I work for. It pays the bills after all.