Windows10

[Groucho]

Anyone running Windows10 with any opinions?

[mixture]

Oh dear. We've had this question before !

Its simple.

Windows10 is not yet released. It is still in beta.

Thus you should not be using it for real-life day-to-day applications.

Thus it is not possible (or advisable) to form an opinion on new software when it is in a beta state, because everything and anything is subject to change.

Wait until its released before you start thinking about using it or trying to get opinions on it.

[lomapaseo]

Thus it is not possible (or advisable) to form an opinion on new software when it is in a beta state, because everything and anything is subject to change.


I thought the idea behind beta state was for opinions to be formed leading to a better product.

Do we have any brave beta testers aboard this forum?

[Saab Dastard]

Be fair, mixture.

You can have opinions on beta software, but they may not be relevant to the released product.

Without end-user feedback from the beta program, which includes opinion as well as problems and bugs (sorry, undocumented features with unwanted effects), the end product as released would not be as good (or would be even worse, depending on your PoV).

I haven't seen Win 10 beta, so I have no opinion.

SD

[mixture]

I thought the idea behind beta state was for opinions to be formed leading to a better product.

As far as I'm concerned, beta is a software engineering phase. Wikipedia sums it up nicely :

Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues and may still cause crashes or data loss. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing.

Therefore, because it has bugs, performance and other functionality or usability issues, you cannot seriously form an opinion of a piece of software when its in beta state.

[mixture]

Be fair, mixture.

You can have opinions on beta software, but they may not be relevant to the released product.

Alright fair enough.

People are entitled to have irrelevant opinions in relation to Windows 10. :E

[Gsxr600]

I think it would be interesting to hear what opinions people had formed about Win 10 during the beta phase, e.g. how does the updated user interface compare with Win7/8?

[jimtherev]

... and it could be argued that people who are, ahem, slightly less advanced/sophisticated than others in the game have their input at this stage, too.
The 'expert' would never do [this or that] because it would be a silly thing to do, even with a fully developed OS; the more naïve, otoh, might not know not to do it. And the problem would not be disclosed until the so-called fully-tested product was out in the wide world. Mega thread-drift coming up...


back in the 60s, Vauxhall produced a family saloon called a Cresta. Not long after its release, someone came back to the dealer with the front screen across the back seat.
Shock horror: "What HAVE you done?" "Nothing much, I just jacked it up in the drive and the windscreen popped out. What do you mean, it can't do that. It did. Er, possibly I shouldn't have had the front door open at the time."
The salesman insisted that it still couldn't happened that way, until the punter insisted in his turn that they try it on a car in the showroom, so they opened the front door, jacked the car up, and guess what? The windscreen popped out.


Us idiots can be useful at times.

[Capn Bloggs]

Thus you should not be using it for real-life day-to-day applications.

Thus it is not possible (or advisable) to form an opinion on new software when it is in a beta state, because everything and anything is subject to change.

Wait until its released before you start thinking about using it or trying to get opinions on it.
1. Nobody said they were;
2. Rubbish;
3. Why should I?

Pull ya head in, Mixture.

[terrain safe]

Quick question about Windows 10.

I am running 8.1 ATM which I can update for free. If at a later stage I want to add a new HDD to my machine can I just reload 10 or will I have to goto 7 then 8 then 8.1 then 10 as that was my upgrade route? Just thinking of saving at least a day of my life.

[Booglebox]

I have it "in production" on one PC in the office. It's still a bit of a mess, quite a way to go before release (can't even join domains yet) but fairly stable though.

Terrain Safe, you can just go 8.1 to 10.

[mixture]

Pull ya head in, Mixture.

I'd suggest you pull your head in Capn Bloggs.

I've been involved in more beta tests than you'll ever be, including having been flown out to California for various things at various large names.

If you had seen just some of the stuff I'd seen, you too would agree with what I'm saying and understand why I say only fools seek to form an opinion on the basis of beta software.

[Gsxr600]

Mixture, I think you should consider this is a public Beta version rather than a controlled test phase. Anyone is allowed to try the software out and use it how they want to either get a sneak preview of what Win 10 will be like, or even to post feedback to Microsoft, with the caveat that its pre-release so supplied without support or warranty.

The majority of public beta testers will be the former though, just wanting a look at something new. So its only natural to want to discuss first impressions on an internet forum. Thank you for the warning though that its not production standard yet.

[mixture]

Microsoft may call it a "Technical Preview", but its still a fancy name for beta, in their own words :

Windows 10 Technical Preview may be substantially modified before it's commercially released.

I wish all those who sail the Windows 10 beta ship the very best of luck, rather you than me !

[Gsxr600]

So has anyone been "brave" enough to try it yet and is brave enough to post their opinions here? I have heard it's an improvement and somewhat of a compromise between Win7 and Win8 - most notably returning to a more traditional style of start menu. I've avoided Win8 as it just doesnt seem worth the annoyance so am hoping to jump directly to Win10 when 7 gets too past it. I stayed XP for a long time and went directly to 7 as Vista never seemed to cut the mustard.

[seacue]

Windows 7 is what Vista should have been.

Will Windows 10 be what Windows 8 should have been?

[mixture]

Windows 7 is what Vista should have been.

Amen to that ! :ok:

Will Windows 10 be what Windows 8 should have been?

One can but hope.

But actually, I don't find Windows 8 that bad. Infact my biggest gripe about it is that stupid Start Screen.

[PowerDragTrim]

Gsxr600, to me, Win 10 just seems a 'melange' of Win7 and Win8. Doubtless there are hidden assets! But well worth a download and explore, with a spare HDD.

Mixture, as far as removing the irritating Start screen, simply right click in an empty part of the toolbar > Properties > Navigation > Start Screen - select 'Show my desktop background on Start'.

[TWT]

Infact my biggest gripe about it is that stupid Start ScreenAgreed.Solved by using Classic Shell.Works for me

[chrissw]

I am using Windows 10 "Technical Preview" on my personal laptop, although not on my work laptop, which still has Win7. I really can't stand Win8 and that's why I'm not using it, even though I was offered it.

My opinion is that Win10 is most definitely not ready for release yet. Different people with different hardware will experience different problems, but in my case, it's a matter of apparently random chance how the screen will look when I boot it up. Some of the time, all the fonts look just fine, but at other times, smaller fonts and some of the small icons look blurred and malformed.

There are occasional application crashes, particularly with Photo Viewer.

It seems unable to join a Homegroup made up of Win7 computers.

However my biggest gripe with Win10 is this: what exactly is the point? If you're using it, as I do, in the kind of "classic desktop" mode, it looks very much like an uglier version of Win7. Everything has the Win8 "flat" appearance, with unattractive desktop icons and application windows.

On the other hand, there are a couple of things I do like, such as the integration with OneDrive, which means I can access important files at home, or anywhere with Internet, and on my mobile phone.

No doubt I have some more work to do in order to discover the other good stuff within Win10 as well.

[G.Green]

Rule One in airline flying: don't go immediately to a new type. Wait about two years till when the bugs should be all ironed out and then decide whether or not to go on the type. Same goes for new computer operating systems; let the fanatics take the risks and then base your decision on feedback. I avoided the dreaded W8 using this procedure and bypassed the associated headaches.

[Gsxr600]

Couldn't agree more G. Green. I intend to stay with Win7 for the foreseeable future as its great. Even without the annoying Metro/Start thing in Win8 I still think Win7 is better performing. Hopefully Win10 will be another great OS, but at the moment Win7 is all I need. (Well I'm typing this on Puppy Linux on an ancient Netbook apparently designed to run Win7 but far too slow to do so!).

[Booglebox]

Mixture along with several other posters here are slightly missing the point with "beta" / service pack comments. The "release" is a bit of an amorphous thing / grey area...
Back in the day we had "gold master" / RTM. That was ostensibly production-ready code, but of course you could wait until SP1.

In this brave new world, much has changed. We have "RTM", but this is still not actually production-ready. The RTM is more like RTD - release to developers. The actual "release" is called GA - general availability. There can and will be many, many patches of the RTM OS between then and GA.
Also, Windows is now being developed by what used to be the Windows Phone team (led by Terry Myerson), who have a history of releasing incomplete software and then updating it.

And then, if you're waiting for SP1, you're out of luck. Win 10 will be updated (http://blogs.windows.com/business/2015/01/30/windows-10-for-enterprise-more-secure-and-up-to-date/) like Ubuntu, with three branches:
- Consumer branch (latest stuff, every 4-6 weeks)
- "Current branch for business" - same as Consumer branch but delayed a bit
- LTS, which is similar to the conventional model of Windows releases, in that there is a new release in an "appropriate time frame" - probably somewhere between every one to three years, that is supported for 5 years, but doesn't receive new features.
You can skip one of these releases, and still be supported.

So, if you really hate change, and want a stable product, probably the best thing to do is to wait until the second LTS release.
Personally, I'm going to jump on the "current branch for business" about 6mo after release.

[p.j.m]

Windows 7 is what Vista should have been.

Will Windows 10 be what Windows 8 should have been?

no, Microsoft are still heading down the "one size fits all" goat track with windows 10.

Everything is designed to run on a 4" touch screen, so it totally useless on a normal desktop with a mouse.

People have been screaming for years about the design, and the designers have been forced to keep making compromises to make it more desktop friendly, but that about sums up Windows 10, its a compromise that doesn't work well on a full featured desktop.

The latest nonsense Microsoft are trying to shove down desktop users throats is a new "spartan" browser, and its name is exactly what it is. The designers have tried to hide every useful control, to make more room for content on small screens, and yet again, destroy the desktop experience.

Windows 7 is still far superior on a normal computer.

[Guest 112233]

I too have used Windows 7 which like, but I suspect that Win 8 (Horrible and confusing interface) and 8.1 (better) which I'm using as I type, has incremental improvements in its security provisions; "Sand-boxing" of applications for example and better more developed native fire walling of PC systems.

Windows 7 was really a great leap forward in processor and memory management.

Hopefully Windows 10 will maintain the incremental improvements. As for the interface in Win 8.1 you can vary the sizes of the application boxes, kill the useless charms presentation and effectively use a PC without a touch screen. (Ancient ASUS 23" ML239 1920 x 1080 in use)

All the moaning and wailing about the interface in 8 versions really reflects on the "Consumer Computer press" in having something to moan about.

A PC screen, as it's evolved and the say 4" screen; on a smart phone are functionally [Similar] but differently physically scaled devices; with a significant overlap of functionality and use. The characteristics of the mouse used is critical.

The acceptance of the interface really boils down to familiarity, even the old DOS prompt with a batch file 1 for Word, 2 for Lotus etc, achieved a degree of useability in its time.

Even new users that I've taught; especially Middle aged and older people have accepted the interface as it comes. [Edit the drawback being you need to know what you are looking for - Menu systems have a huge advantage here. Unity in Ubuntu being a glaring example of the absence of this problem - How not to design an interface ]

The Win 8...... interface was an attempt to bridge a form of common interface across a spectrum of usage and for a lot of people, it failed.

System image and restore is a also major failing in win 8, even Vista did a much better job. This was a poor design change to encourage online backups.

I await Win 10 with interest.

CAT III