License still valid, I can only do LPC if I pay 2 simulator sessions (full recurrent

[G550driver]

Dear Pprune,

Just found out we face new challenges. I was planned for a OPC/LPC 3 weeks ago ( my yearly ritual). We did & passed the whole OPC/LPC examination. Now I found out that CAE refuses to recognize the LPC,. You need to pay for a “full recurrent”6 days program. This sells itself for 46700 pounds or 64477 euro + tax. ( 77% of an initial Type rating). I am told take it or go somewhere else. There are only 2 schools for Gulfstream G550 and both play the same game. Looks like Monopoly situation.
It’s sad because I passed the check in the simulator. I think it’s only finding a way to raise the cost and make us so more dependable of our employer.
Unfortunately CAE & Flightsafety don’t allow dry-renting the simulator anymore
So I am open for any advice.

Happy approaches,
:*:\
G550 driver

[Flying Mechanic]

Your boss Won't foot the bill?

[G550driver]

No way, He didn't count on that.
Also I am freelancing on a private plane :uhoh:

[G550driver]

Hi fastjet,

I am with a new company and I was told OPC/LPC by the DO. Just when entering the sim we found out OPC, it was past 2200loc so no contact person to talk too. So we did the whole OPC/LPC exam program and should do the paperwork afterwards.

[Kelly Hopper]

I get it.... Whereas before you could get away with an LPC now they insist on a full recurrent?
Whilst I can see their point with required training what I can't get is the completely crazy costs! They played the same trick with me. Forget freelance, half your wages or more will go on trg! It's have a fulltime job on the Gulf or forget the whole deal? Lose that job and very quickly you can find yourself kissing a very expensive type goodbye and then what? The whole situation is untenable and yet these training snakes are getting rich at the expense of destroying pilot's careers! It is a disgraceful situation. :yuk:

[G550driver]

Hey Kelly Hopper,

You really got it!!

:D

[silverknapper]

Did you get your licence signed?

[Archibald2]

If your licence has been signed you are good to go.

If not you can transfer your Part FCL licence to another EASA country which accepts the LPC check on real airplane - some countries do.

The other way is to ask for clatification from your CAA about the meaning of "simulator availability" as they see it.

The training comunity is an cartel extorting money from pilots by not allowing the dry lease of simulators.

[G550driver]

No the examiner didn’t sign off my license. He is afraid of his job.
I am talking to the CAA of the Netherlands and they wrote me that I don’t need a full recurrent at all!!! The Swiss authority is aware of the issue and now you can do your LPC check on the plane.
Yes, now the big discussing is the word “ availability “!!
The vision of the schools is if there is somewhere in the world a simulator that will be your only option!!
On the other hand we carefully reviewed the email correspondence with CAE. We clearly asked for an OPC/LPC and they confirmed it.:*:*:yuk:

[Archibald2]

EASA holds the keys to solve the problem but they just do not bother.

The proof for this is the situation with "base training" - after more than 15 years of using the same text in JAR FCL1 and later in Part FCL they suddenly came with new interpretation of the same text.
Now, without any change in rules and after 15 years, now the same words have different meaning making free-lancers situation even more difficult by refusing to accept this base training outside an ATO.

They obviously can and they should also make a new interpretation of the "simulator availability".

This new interpretation should say that simulator is considered to be not available if the simulator operator is refusing to dry lease single session simulator for an LPC to be performed by any TRE and this session is fairly priced.

They are well aware of the monopolistic cartel anti-market practices of the simulator operators and they have an obligation to resist to it.

That would be in line with their "no less but no more" policy and with policy of fair access to market to everybody.

The problem is that they are not practicing they own policies!

It is much easier to destroy a couple of dozen pilot careers.

[Klimax]

It is perfectly acceptable to have this discussion in the OPEN. We are entitled to know what sort of treatment to expect from various service providers - like CAE! IF providers like CAE starts to fool around and play little games with us - why should we not let that be know to others.. I've noted it. Thanks for the info.

[FerrypilotDK]

The first thing the examiner should have done when you went to the briefing room after the ride, is sign your license.

Why didn't that happen?

A long shot would be to approach the CAA that certified him and ask them to enquire about the check ride, if you indeed passed the ride. If he confirms it vis a vis them, he might be "afraid of losing his job" in that direction, more than related to CAE.

Sounds like someone was misinformed, or was trying to pull a fast one, by renting the sim for a company OPC and then have the examiner sign off on a LPC without paying CAE for the full recurrent.......and got caught.

[Above The Clouds]

If a company requests an LPC/OPC only at CAE without a recurrent course they will do it, I have had it booked for me 2 times, its up to the company to negotiate the deal and if they have a large pilot work force using the training provider it is in their interest to accept it.

[deefer dog]

CAE have managed to screw up or delay every bit of paperwork for us too! I've lost count of the different excuses. :yuk:

[Kerosene]

@ Joe le Taxi

..., I now go to some lengths to avoid using CAE (quite easy on the Gulfstream).

How is that easy? FSI, or LPC on the aircraft?

[Dufo]

In 2007 I was quoted with LPC price which was more than initial done year earlier, Embraer 120, FSI Paris.
You wonder..

[Propellerpilot]

From my experience from the last 4 years of dealing and working with CAE, I have never had a problem concerning LPC/OPC and paperwork was always express-couriered on time and if there was any claim from authorities side concerning the paperwork, it was also sorted out very quickly.

If you play by their rules and standards, there should be no problems - if you however start trying to push for "short-cut" services "outside the box"- you will run into heavy waters and the will to cooperate will start falling short of personal expectation - I have seen this with people trying their luck - with frustrating results.

An LPC on type is interesting but should not be the norm, because the idea of a full recurrent on the SIM and classroom discussion - if done effectively - makes far more sense for annual training.

I do agree however: those costs are extremely painful! (Even more so with the current €/$ exchange rates... OMG! They should stop quoting $ prices in European facilities...)