Do YOU always fully check your controls before flight?

[Squawk7700]

From avweb.com

Quite sobering to think that a "rookie" mistake caused this and shocking that it was common practice !

Flight control checks of the Gulfstream IV that crashed during takeoff last year, killing all aboard, were rarely done, according to flight data from the jet’s most recent trips. The details were part of the accident docket the NTSB released Wednesday as it continues its investigation into the May 31, 2014 crash at Hanscom Field in Bedford, Massachusetts. Investigators’ initial findings showed that the Gulfstream accelerated to 165 knots but never left the ground, and the elevator position indicated a control lock was engaged. The jet ran off a runway, through a fence and crashed into a gully, where it burned. The two pilots, a flight attendant, and four passengers were killed, including billionaire businessman Lewis Katz.

The accident docket includes data from the jet indicating that out of the last 176 flights, two full stop-to-stop checks of all flight controls were performed prior to takeoff, while 16 partial control checks were identified. During the pre-takeoff operations prior to the crash, flight data also showed no movements of the controls to indicate they were checked. The transcript of the cockpit voice recorder showed that one of the pilots repeated “lock is on” several times in the moments before the crash, followed by, “I can’t stop it.” According to a Bloomberg report on the investigation, the NTSB’s probe includes the Gulfstream’s systems, which were designed to prevent throttle movement with locked controls.

[skyhighfallguy]

YES I do check the flight controls fully prior to takeoff, the instant before takeoff.

About 20 years ago we had someone with a mis loaded plane have difficulty rotating due to incorrect trim information.

But he did rotate and did fine. And it was at a very unforgiving airport, KMDW.

We actually have had training to verify elevator around 80 knots and that it is moving properly and effectively.

[Howard Hughes]

Every flight!

I interestingly watch other people do it and they get no where near 'the stops', I always make sure the test is FULL & free. :ok:

[ACMS]

Full free AND correct.

That means actually watching them too......not just wobbling them around a bit!!

I was taught this from day 1 years ago and ALWAYS do it on every Aircraft I fly..

[josephfeatherweight]

The result in the above accident was of course tragic, yet inconceivable to me. I too was lucky to have a "full and free" check drilled into me from day one. Can't envisage getting airborne without doing it. Also, this is not the first time a Gulfstream has met with disaster due to their control locks. Poor system?

[IFEZ]

Likewise ACMS! Before every flight, as part of pre-takeoff checks, controls FULL & FREE movement, and correct sense. Never had the privilege of flying a Gulfstream so I'm not sure how/why the crew would think it unnecessary but seems like a basic (& in this case fatal) error. Unbelievable.

[Squawk7700]

Sad to think that a billionaire was taken out at the result of such a stupid event. Just goes to show you can buy the best gear in the world and still come undone due to human error.

[Tarq57]

I remember reading an article years ago in Flying magazine. (I think it was penned by Richard Collins. Maybe Len Morgan.)
He was lining up for departure and moved the controls through their full range just, before giving it the gas. The FO said, why do that? We did it as part of the taxi check."

The reply involved the author having witnessed a DC 8 stall on departure and crash. Turns out a bit of gravel had been blown into an elevator hinge by a preceding departure, and jammed it. The crew couldn't lower the nose.

He was haunted by that memory. (Well, you would be.)
Creating the mental image is probably sufficient to jog one into performing that simple check.

[NZScion]

Pity he didn't buy the best crew....

[Pinky the pilot]

Every flight!

I interestingly watch other people do it and they get no where near 'the stops', I always make sure the test is FULL & free.

Likewise. No exceptions.

[fujii]

Always. Adding to "full and free," "in the correct sense." I.e. Looking out, ailerons, left up, right down, elevator up and down.

Trim is an interesting one. Although one can check the mark on the wheel, it doesn't indicate correct movement. A number of years ago after my aircraft's annual, I was trimming nose up after takeoff but the nose was going down. Back on the ground I discovered that the cables had been reversed during the service. I taxied back to the engineer and told him what had happened. He strenuously stated that was impossible until I showed him. Having a sliding canopy, I now stick my head out when checking the elevator trim.

[tecman]

Another vote for full, free and correct every flight. And always do it after the engine run-ups, just in case anything has been blown in to any hinges etc.

As Fuji says, trim is a bit more difficult. Despite nowadays having a sliding bubble canopy, I must admit I normally do the stabilator/trim check on the walk-around. A convenient check (having electric-only trim) involves two people but, failing that, I usually put the trim to neutral and check the stabilator movement against the markings on the fuselage, and then run the trim between extremes while standing outside the cockpit and looking at the tail assembly.

I haven't seen reversed trim but do recall being told off some years ago for writing up a defect when hiring a C152 from a flying school. The trim and indicator system had become partially disconnected and nearly full "nose-up" indication was required to keep the aircraft straight and level. Being a C152, the required yoke forces on take off were not great but there was a surprise element which may well have thrown a student. My cursory check of the elevator and trim had clearly been inadequate.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

This is what can happen if you don't do a control check before take off-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz9RTlRRZD8

[JammedStab]

11,000 hours including 2,500 GA and I don't think I have ever taken off without checking the controls. I remember a guy failing his private pilot checkride with one of the faults being not checking for correct control movement. Was looking straight ahead.

I also tend to check the elevator trim as well. On some aircraft you can't see it from the cockpit like the Cessna 170. So as part of the walkaround when I get to the right side door, I check by standing outside the aircraft and holding the control column aft to raise the elevator and then check the trim. Nose up is tab down, nose down is tab up. Check that takeoff position in near neutral. Takes a few seconds.

Stabilators really need to be check with the control near neutral as the anti-servo(trim) tab moves with control movement.

Chances are everything will be moving in the correct direction if the previous flight was OK for the last guy but be especially paranoid about proper direction movement after significant maintenance.

Then again, the Diamond DA-20 is just a spring being adjusted inside the tail to create force on the elevator so all you can do is look at the trim light in the cockpit. But once again, if it was rigged to operate in the proper direction on the previous flight and there has been no maintenance, it probably still is.

[stilton]

Don't think this crash was any more tragic just because there was a 'Billionaire' in the back Sq7.


Just tragic complacency at its worst, we changed our timing on control checks years ago when we did away with the taxi checklist.


Its done just before start after being cleared by the ground engineer over the headset, can't see the wings of course but you check the indications to verify full and correct movement.


Some will just 'wiggle' the controls but I always go (gently) to the stops on the Rudder, Elevator and Ailerons.


Every time, no excuses.

[Creampuff]

I blame CVD.

[The name is Porter]

Sad to think that a billionaire was taken out at the result of such a stupid event.

As opposed to anyone else who steps foot in an aircraft.

[Capt Fathom]

I also tend to check the elevator trim as well

And with the handle JammedStab, I understand your caution! :E

[Caboclo]

Yep, habitually, since first training flight. I wonder if the accident pilots got lazy, or if they were never taught that habit to begin with.

Odd to think that the San Antonio Sewer Pipe actually has a better design in that respect than a Gulfstream! If you push the throttles forwards beyond idle, the lock gets pushed off.

[Arm out the window]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jpq09_ak_ZM

This video of a Caribou re engined with turboprops springs to mind - very sad and ultimately avoidable. The piston machine had throttles on the roof and they couldn't be advanced without the gust lock being disengaged, which was a factor in this crash as I understand it.

[kingRB]

This video of a Caribou re engined with turboprops springs to mind

Yep, that one's burned into my mind every time before take off. Was always taught to check for sense and full / free movement from day one when I started in gliders. Still do it religously, I don't want to end up like that!

[SGTpilot2015]

There was a case years ago, when a light a/c was in for a CofA or some such thing. Anyway to cut a long story short, the controls were disconnected for some reason. On completing the aileron control connection, they put some person in the cockpit to move the control wheel. Unfortunately this individual was unsure of left from right. The engineer(s) yelled turn the wheel to the right or left, in which he did. As the engineers were getting the opposite reaction, they expected, they called and said no, move it the other way, which they did.

Folks these mistake of crossed aileron controls, was never picked up until the resulting crash on the test flight. The company chief pilot was at the controls and another experienced pilot was there to take the readings.

The authorities tried to blame the pilot. However in stated in the FM that the controls should be checked for full and free movement. Nowhere was it stated the controls be checked in the correct sense. I learnt from that.

There have been several fatal accidents where an aircraft has attempted t/o with the external control locks in place.

Controls must be checked, for full, free movement in the correct sense.

[4Greens]

Did a control check in Canadian winter just before lining up on the runway. The controls wouldn't move ! Taxied back and discovered the cause was freezing rain. Nuff said.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Full, free and in the correct sense - every flight without exception!

Only once, in 40+ years of flying, have I detected a problem - ailerons locked as a result of cable routing mistake during maintenance! :ooh:

It only takes once to kill you!

Dr :8

[solowflyer]

Yes every take off. Few months ago while working off a gravel strip I came in for my next load(ag) went through the whole pre take off ck while waiting for the hopper to load and guess what my elevator was jamed. On inspection found a stone had flicked up in the landing and wedged itself in the hinge.

[Oktas8]

He was lining up for departure and moved the controls through their full range just, before giving it the gas. The FO said, why do that? We did it as part of the taxi check."

The FO unintentionally made a good point though. The check should be done immediately before take-off like all of you are saying - therefore it's pointless doing it earlier. No need to do the same check twice!

[Tarq57]

At the time I believe the airline SOP was to do it at taxi commencement or thereabouts.

[Radix]

..........

[SGTpilot2015]

The time to check if the fuel caps are in place is during the "golden lap" just before the PIC, as the last person aboard. That is when latches, doors and fuel caps are checked secured.

I would have thought just before t/o would be leaving it a little too late, if remembered at all. However during a control check of the ailerons (full up) would be a time for a final check. Difficult in a high wing I would expect.

[Sunfish]

Controls full and free every time. I check for correct sense on my preflight walk around. If at all possible I also try to listen to the controls as I move them on preflight.

[PLovett]

Ok then. So everyone checks their flight controls but how many check both ailerons when turning the control wheel both ways? I heard of a Conquest undertaking a post-maintenance check flight where the pilot discovered the ailerons had been mis-rigged and no matter which way the wheel was turned both went up. The aircraft had been checked 3 times before that flight including the pilot control check but all had looked to see the corresponding aileron was moving up as the wheel was turned in that direction and not that the other was down.

[Arm out the window]

I've always said something along the lines of "stick right right aileron up left down, stick left left aileron up right down" while looking to check they're actually doing it - doesn't seem right not to check both of them for each direction of movement.

[Capt Claret]

Damn. I'll have to send the effo down the back to look out the windows now, when we do the control checks. Not sure what to do about the elevators though. :}

[Radix]

..........

[Blowie]

Agree, every time... in my Cherokee.

But achieving the same assurance in a helicopter can be quite a challenge - think about the result of 'full and free' just before lift-off!

[xma007]

In the lined up nuts and guts:D

[Compylot]

"Every time.."

"Controls full and free every time."

"Yep, habitually, since first training flight."

"Yep, that one's burned into my mind.."

and so on...

I must say I often skip this check as I haven't thought it that necessary to check if the controls are full and free. (I mean I do sometimes if there happens to be an extraordinary long wait at the holding point, or I'm trying to stretch a leg or something)

I will from now on.

I am heartened by the responses here and the level of professionalism displayed by pilots on this forum.

[ShyTorque]

I've always said something along the lines of "stick right right aileron up left down, stick left left aileron up right down" while looking to check they're actually doing it - doesn't seem right not to check both of them for each direction of movement. As far as "in the correct sense" is concerned, I used to teach my students to make sure that the control surfaces (ailerons and elevator) move upwards when the stick was moved towards them and vice versa.

But "Full and free" movement definitely not done in a helicopter. I was once nearly killed by an ancient RAF Group Captain (an ex WW2 Mosquito pilot), who tried it prior to his famil. flight in a Whirlwind 10. I had finished my sortie and were in the process of a rotors running crew change. I had vacated the right seat and was standing outside, on intercom, leaning against the aircraft, waiting to remove the wheel chock. The QHI in the left seat helped the Gp Capt to strap in then told him to confirm he could reach the controls. Without further ado, he carried out a full and free movement check, including pulling the collective! Because the rotors were at flying speed, the aircraft began to lift and roll to the right and then lurched in yaw to the left, pushing me across the concrete. I just ran for it! My intercom lead went tight and my head got snatched rearwards but I stayed on my feet and kept going. A suitable debrief was held.

[A Squared]

But achieving the same assurance in a helicopter can be quite a challenge - think about the result of 'full and free' just before lift-off!

I used to spend a lot of time riding around in helicopters and a control check just before lift off was pretty common. It's done with just a little bit of collective in, to anywhere near enough to hover. The cyclic is moved around it's travel. The results can be seen in the movement of the rotor disk, and felt in the movement of the aircraft.

[Aussie Bob]

Lots of good little Vegemite kids on this thread. No mistakes ever made, all checks always completed, restores my faith in aviation.

[Radix]

..........

[SGTpilot2015]

Radix

Yes I check the controls before each and every t/o.

I am always supisious of an aircraft just out of maintenance, any maintenance. Like it or not you are a test pilot when you conduct the first attempt to get airborne, after engineers have been at it. All due respect to our engineering colleagues of course.

I did raise the subject of my suspicions to an engineer once. He respond in hast "I am always suspicious of an aircraft when a pilot has been near it!! :}

[gerry111]

Ah yes, Aussie Bob. But that is why all of us are still alive. :D

[Arm out the window]

Lots of good little Vegemite kids on this thread. No mistakes ever made, all checks always completed, restores my faith in aviation

Yeah, those goody goodies who are diligent with checks, talk about a bunch of losers!

[Aussie Bob]

Allow me to elaborate slightly ....

There probably exists on this very thread, someone who has neglected this check and is unaware of it. All it takes is a distraction at a critical point. Just ask anyone who has landed "wheels up". The problem is that if this happens the belief that the check was completed remains.

Some may be better off saying: "There but for the grace of god go I" (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/there_but_for_the_grace_of_God_go_I)

[tecman]

I understand your point Bob and, of course, it's possible to stuff anything up. But surely before-takeoff checks are the ones we do with the least pressure and with a high probability of getting correct. Is the small chance of a stuff-up really grounds for panning the righteous, even given the irrationality of an anonymous internet forum?

Invoking grace in an aviation context is a slippery slope. In the limit, you'd chuck away the check lists and say a prayer or two. Call me a heathen atheist but I have a suspicion this might not work so well.

I observe pilots who do next to no checks. If they crash and I don't, do I ascribe my longevity to grace? No, I think I'll go with the simplest explanation and just say I identified a few gotchas and had them fixed, reducing the probability of misfortune. If I crash, I accept that the probability of a crash is not zero, even with the best checks in the world.

[Aussie Bob]

Invoking grace in an aviation context is a slippery slope. In the limit, you'd chuck away the check lists and say a prayer or two. Call me a heathen atheist but I have a suspicion this might not work so well.


I agree, I am not a particularly religious person, perhaps I would be better to simply say read "Fate is the Hunter" by Ernie Gahn.

I have long lost count of the number of BFR/AFR's I have conducted and my observations from some are the only reason the crash doesn't happen is because nothing ever goes wrong.

I do also recall an incident long ago when flying skydivers in a 182. I was totally destracted mid way through the pre take off checks by a lengthy ATC clearance. When I tried to rotate I then noticed that the nail the operator was using for the column lock was still firmly in place. Fortunately it was a long runway. Did I learn? Sure did, I am of the same opinion as others on this thread that this check should be done twice, once in the pre take off checks and once just as the aircraft is rolling.

The point is, had the nail been removed, to this day I would remain convinced that the control check had indeed been done. Needless to say the nail got discarded and the operator purchased the correct item. An alarm bell also rings when someone tells me they never forget a check.

[Compylot]

Tecman, I think that what Aussie Bob and a couple of others are trying to say is that the OP was posing a rhetorical question, not a poll on how many of the wonderfully diligent and professional internet forum members actually carry out a check, where, how, their fond memories of being taught by WW2 bomber veterans all sprinkled on top with some cute juxtapositions from real life airline pilots posted just to highlight the fact that they really are...... real life airline pilots!

It's all very cute (is there a group hug emoticon?)

[Oktas8]

The point is, had the nail been removed, to this day I would remain convinced that the control check had indeed been done.

Nice one Aussie Bob. A good reminder of the humility required to be a good pilot.

Oktas "I've never forgotten - or have I?" 8

[Radix]

..........

[Compylot]

I think I love you Radix.

[Squawk7700]

Certainly a first for any thread that I have ever started !!

[Compylot]

I love you too squawk7700.

[Capt Fathom]

Don't you just love school holidays !!

[Centaurus]

We actually have had training to verify elevator around 80 knots and that it is moving properly and effectively.

Is that the manufacturer's recommendation in the FCOM or a local chief pilot saying it is a good idea in his humble (?)opinion. May as well give each trim control a bit of a twirl at 80 knots - after all they could be working in reverse:rolleyes:

[Centaurus]

Ernie Gahn.


Actually I think his surname is Gann:ok:

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Earnest K, to be precise.

Heard a rather good recount of a rather senior instructor and airline pilot who walked back into the flight office with a hat full of the previous nights efforts (plus brekkie) at the mess after a RAAF cadet decided to do a full and free check of controls as part of his pre-landing checks...:yuk::yuk::yuk::D

[Arm out the window]

Well, you never know if they may have developed some form of binding towards the limits of travel between one circuit and the next!

[PLovett]

Earnest K, to be precise.

Actually, it was Ernest K Gann.

[Aussie Bob]

Actually, it was Ernest K Gann

And his books are classics and still very readable and relevant today :)

[LeadSled]

Folks,
It really pays to do proper control checks preflight, full and free and in the correct sense, including trims,and this goes double after maintenance, especially after maintenance. And did I say after maintenance.

This applies to any aircraft.

My first real airborne serious emergency was losing aileron control during a C.of A flight test, in retrospect, if I had been more thorough in my pre-flight, I would have noticed that the aileron cables were not adequately tensioned (Auster Autocar).

Twice I have had restricted controls in a C-172, one was a riveting dolly left in the wing, the other a zinc chromate pressure pack left in the tail cone. I found a large torch built into the wing of an aircraft I had just purchased, amongst the aileron bellcrank, despite the engraved name of a LAME, he denied the torch was his. I have been on YSBK twice, when aircraft have got airborne with aileron sense reversed, one resulted in a badly crumpled aircraft, the other, due to a remarkable pilot using his controls reversed, got back on the ground without damage.

Air Pacific damned near lost a B747-438 on takeoff at Los Angeles, after maintenance on the controls, a full control check was not performed, they found the problem when the aircraft, at near max weight, got airborne with a with a number of spoiler panels up. It was only ground effect over the water that kept this aircraft in the air long enough to get the gear up and dump fuel. It was probably more critical than the QF A-380, QF32, out of Singapore.

The size of the aircraft and of the maintenance system system is not absolute protection, and it is your neck. Not to mention passengers, maybe three of four, or three or four hundred.

I have personally had a case of restricted trim range on a large aircraft, picked up on the post-maintenance control check, limit switches were miss-set ---- which is why Boeing have index markers on the stab, so you can physically see that the stab. is running through the correct range.

The message is real simple, folks, and never miss it.

Tootle pip!!

[Car RAMROD]

Before every departure. Check system on all my aircraft have it listed.

Correct sense is done pre flight.

Also always a good idea when doing preflight, as far as possible depending on your machine, move the controls by hand and have a listen. Found one or two buggered hinges/bearings etc doing this sort of thing which resulted in the aircraft being grounded, much to the displeasure of the boss! "Just spray some crc in there to loosen it a bit you'll be right". Yeah no.

[dircm]

Checking controls full and free also lets you check that your yoke has full clearance when you have a passenger in the RH seat.

I remember having a portly gentleman in the RH seat once and found that the yoke would hit his legs when elevators were pulled halfway back and turned left and right. He was also surprised at how far back the yoke traveled.

So this could have been a problem if I needed full control authority for my ailerons with the yoke in normal inflight position !!

I also use full back elevator when braking.

He had to shift to another seat in the cabin before we departed...

Tom.

[Andy_P]

I will put my hand up here and say I have forgotten to do control checks once (that I remember) but remembered on the takeoff roll and rejected the take-off.

One of my instructors told me a story about a cadet who was taxiing for take off, did control check before actual take off only to find the co-pilot yoke had some bolt fail during the taxi and jam the elevator. As a result of that, I now do a full control check when I am on the threshold. Actually, I normally do a control check once seated in the aircraft, during the before take-off check list and before take-off.

[Centaurus]

You can go overboard on these additional checks. Being a once avid reader of overseas flight safety events via the internet and various magazines, I realised that reading all these gory stories was causing me to start jumping at shadows.

For example, during the before take off checks in the old 737 series, I found myself just about buggering my back while twisting in my seat to glimpse the outer section of the leading edge devices to ensure that they were indeed extended before commencing the take off roll.

This, despite the presence of safety features in the cockpit that told me the LED were all set in the correct position.

[Compylot]

Folks,

It really pays to do full and proper control check pre flight.

Folks,

It also pays to carefully check the weather to ensure that your fuel loaded is sufficient for all operations.

Folks,

It really pays to do a thorough pre flight inspection, this includes ensuring all covers and pins have been removed especially after any maintenance action.

Folks,

It really pays to ensure you check the maintenance release for any defects.

Folks,

:mad: it.

It's so easy to wax lyrical.

But really, isn't this just a huge circle jerk contributing nothing but an excuse to inflate personal standings? Or am I just cynical?

Maybe I am cynical.

Folks,

It really does pay to research the proper meaning and pronunciation of your cute little quote at the end of each post.

[ShyTorque]

This applies to any aircraft.

Aeroplane, yes. Otherwise, not necessarily so.

[Mach E Avelli]

Compylot, if you must be so condescending towards those here that willingly share their cockups, please at least recognise that 'folk' is already plural.
At the risk of your derision, my control jam story. Departing in an old DH Heron I had the control column jam in the position needed to rotate, which was quite a long way aft. After very carefully dragging it around using trim and without changing gear or flap position, we found that an over enthusiastic baggage handler had forced one bag too many into the forward locker, which was under the cockpit floor. It had forced some loose metal panelling up just enough to foul the elevator system.
I rather suspect that my "full and free" checks had become a bit lax and had only been done to about half travel. Lesson learned.

[megan]

Nothing new under the sun when it comes to means and ways of screwing up.

11/9/27 Short Crusader (seaplane built to compete for the Schneider Trophy) Flying Officer H.M. Schofield attempted to correct a wing lifting during the take off, but the control wires to the ailerons had been crossed during reassembly, so that the aileron movement was reversed. The aircraft continued the roll, and hit the water at a speed of 150 mph (240 km/h). The fuselage broke in half at the cockpit, and Schofield was thrown clear, sustaining serious bruises but no broken bones.

Roy Chadwick (designer of the Lancaster) died on 23 August 1947 in a crash during the takeoff of the prototype Avro Tudor 2 G-AGSU from Woodford airfield, in the vicinity of Shirfold Farm. The accident was due to an error in an overnight servicing in which the aileron cables were inadvertently crossed.

On 30 October 1935, Army Air Corps test-pilot Major Ployer Peter Hill (Chief of the Flying Branch of the Material Division at Wright Field) and Boeing employee Les Tower took the Model 299 (B-17 prototype) on a second evaluation flight. The crew forgot to disengage the "gust locks," a system of devices integral to the design that held the bomber's movable control surfaces in place while the aircraft was parked on the ground. After take-off, due to the failure to manually disengage all of the gust locks, the aircraft entered a steep climb, stalled, nosed over, and crashed, killing Hill and Tower (other observers survived with injuries)

20 Mar 2001 incident to a Lufthansa Airbus A320 on takeoff from Frankfurt. Captains sidestick wired in reverse in roll. Reached 21 degrees bank, and the wingtip is reported to have come within half a meter of the ground. FO pressed ‘priority’ and assumed control.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/Pilot_zps6qynpa9j.jpg (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/babraham227/media/Pilot_zps6qynpa9j.jpg.html)

Compylots household? If yer can take a joke!!!

[Mach E Avelli]

Even the best designed control lock systems are not foolproof.
Two classic cases. The Captain of the first was my next door neighbour, so I know more or less from his account how it happened. The F 27 has a really good gust lock located on the bulkhead behind the LHS. To disengage requires a button to be pressed and a handle to be rotated downwards into a detent and the reverse action to engage it, ie press the button, pull it up to a detent.
The airline concerned had their tech logs encased in a hard cover.
To get this clunky document out of the way, some pilots stowed it behind one of the seats. On this occasion it was behind the Captain's seat. In the cruise he ran the seat back to stretch a bit. The detent was either a bit worn or the lever was not fully down. Whatever the case, running the seat back caused the tech log binder to push the gust lock lever up and re engage the control locks in flight. This caused some confusion for a while, as the autopilot was engaged but not holding straight and level. To add to their woes the control lock system also armed the ground fine pitch circuit, which brought on some propeller warning lights. I think that was what gave them the clue to the problem. Fortunately for them, they had the smarts not to pull the power back to idle, thus they kept the props away from the fine pitch position.
The other case was an HS748 at Sumburgh in the Shetland Islands, which had a dodgy gust lock engage during take off, resulting in an over run into the sea with some fatalities, if I recall correctly (I saw the wreckage in the water). This gust lock was also theoretically a sound design as it disengaged if both throttles were advanced for takeoff. However, one pin in the control run dropped back into the elevator circuit, or somehow had been able to remain there even though the cockpit indication showed the gust lock free.
That was put down to bogus parts which had been installed by a previous operator and had not shown up in the maintenance records.
Which could open the discussion "when would you reject a takeoff AFTER reaching V1?"
Depends on aircraft design, but types which do not have control disconnect circuits may not be flyable with jammed or locked controls, yet rarely is this event considered.

[LeadSled]

Compyplot,
You are obviously ignorant of the origin of "Tootle pip!!.
Try Google.
And I do mean "Tootle pip!!", not toodle pip.
Tootle pip!!

[Arnold E]

Then, of course, there is the case of the ailerons on a Conquest going in the same direction, think about that one.:cool:

[andrewr]

You are obviously ignorant of the origin of "Tootle pip!!.
Try Google.


Top result:
Urban Dictionary: tootlepip
One who loves one's car and hair too much.
;)

[Smudger]

This is kintergarden stuff guys... lesson 1 at flying school is a FULL and FREE check of the flying controls before you get airborne.. I can't BELIEVE that there are people admitting that they don't or have not done it properly !!!

[Aussie Bob]

Well Smudger, I am glad to hear of at least one pilot who has never ever made a kindergarten mistake. Congratulations, we need more like you.

Here in my world we try to learn from our mistakes and those of others.

Keep going vegemite kiddies, this is fun.

[Tidbinbilla]

There will be a few Vegemite kiddies sent to the corner soon if they can't focus on topic rather than each other :)

[Squawk7700]

The thread ran it's course once LeadSled started on about his hairpiece and black holden with personalized number plates.

[megan]

Besides controls, who checks for correct operation of the trims. Very pertinent if its just come out of maintenance. There is a Ppruner who tells a good story of wrestling a Metro around the Bankstown circuit with elevator trim operating in the reverse sense.

AsPA3u7JSFQ

[aileron_69]

I have always done a full and free control check before takeoff, but one day in 2011 in a 210 at Esperance after doing the standard "stir the pot" control check, I almost came unstuck.
Everything was free and correct at the control check, but after taking off, I went to make a left hand turn and the ailerons wouldnt budge. Now this left me in an interesting predicament, do I force it, and risk snapping something, do I wiggle the ailerons back and forth, to try and dislodge something that could be lodged in the linkages? I elected to just leave the control column as it was, nicely centred, and rudder her around the circuit for a slightly wonky but successful crosswind landing.
After I landed, I performed another full and free "stir the pot" check, and it was perfectly fine, but with the elevator around the neutral position, I had no aileron movement. An engineer took a look and discovered the bearing in the control column had collapsed, and where the yoke tube sits at the neutral elevator position, it wouldnt allow aileron movement.
Moral of the story nowadays, I always wiggle the ailerons left and right a few times all the way up the travel of the elevator, just to make sure.

[flyinkiwi]

Not only do I stir the stick and alternately press the pedals but if possible (can't see the tail in some planes) I watch the surfaces as well to see if they are operating in the correct sense and I am getting full deflection.

[Captain Dart]

My 'daily' involves controls full and free, correct sense, running the trims through their full range, and the engine controls through full range. Doesn't everybody do this?

[Mach E Avelli]

It is surprising how pilots can think that they checked something.
A certain large operator of the Bae 146 had an aircraft returned to service from maintenance with the roll spoiler indicators cross wired.
Fortunately the spoilers worked in the correct sense (not easily seen from the cockpit) but for about a month every day, every sector, the crew
diligently did their control checks without picking up Engineering's "deliberate" error.
That is not one crew, but probably a dozen or more who would have flown the aircraft in that time.

[flywatcher]

Mach E Avelli, are you seriously saying that the engineers deliberately returned the aircraft to service knowing it had a control or indicator working in the incorrect sense? Wtf!

[Car RAMROD]

Definitely set lever frictions too, captain dart! Thanks for mentioning it.

There are certain turboprops out there that have things like power levers return quite "noticeably" to flight idle when the friction is quite loose. Anyone familiar with Beechcraft?

Found a jammed lever myself testing the levers pre flight. Go the linkage geometry!

[Capt Claret]

Mach E Avelli, are you seriously saying that the engineers deliberately returned the aircraft to service knowing it had a control or indicator working in the incorrect sense? Wtf!

Hmm, I wonder why the word deliberately was in inverted commas in Mach E Avelli's post?

Time to take your tongue out of your cheek Mr Avelli.

[LeadSled]

My 'daily' involves controls full and free, correct sense, running the trims through their full range, and the engine controls through full range. Doesn't everybody do this?Captain Dart,

Not, by any chance, are you the well known Captain Lawn Dart??
Re. control checks that are properly completed, given the accident record, obviously not.

After engine shutdown on B707, part of the check was to run the thrust levers through their full range to make certain the reverse thrust was stowed and interlocks cleared.
I recall the day an F/O in memory mode did this before the engines were shut down. To say that the ground staff were a little startled would have been the understatement of the year. Thank Hewie we didn't kill or injure anybody, our post flight beer would have got warm completing the paperwork.

[Reepicheep]

I remember reading an article years ago in Flying magazine. (I think it was penned by Richard Collins. Maybe Len Morgan.)
He was lining up for departure and moved the controls through their full range just, before giving it the gas. The FO said, why do that? We did it as part of the taxi check."

The reply involved the author having witnessed a DC 8 stall on departure and crash. Turns out a bit of gravel had been blown into an elevator hinge by a preceding departure, and jammed it. The crew couldn't lower the nose.

He was haunted by that memory. (Well, you would be.)
Creating the mental image is probably sufficient to jog one into performing that simple check.

It was written by Thomas H. Block. Read the same story way back when, have done the last-minute control check ever since.

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Interesting post Reepicheep, that should keep the armchair experts busy for hours commenting!

[Bravohotel]

Back in 70s we had 2 cases of locked ailerons ( control lock was 2 bits of wood and a bolt holding them together with a big red flag attached located in the gap between the end of the aileron and the wing tip) the aircraft was the PL12 Airtruk and in both cases a very wide circuit was carried out using the twin rudders and elevators to control the aircraft and a successful landing carried out much to the skill of the AG pilots who failed to notice the big red flag fluttering in breeze during the pre-flight walk around and the full and free control check before take-off (true story)

[Fantome]

Round about 1963 a Victa Airtourer of the Royal Aero Club of NSW, pupil and instructor on board, had elevator jam in flight. Instructor found he could get enough pitch authority to slightly raise or lower the nose by delicate power changes and by cautious adjustment with the trim lever.
Then he set up for a long shallow approach back into Bankstown, landing successfully without further incident.

Incidentally, his initials were RR, he had an apartment in Seidler's Blues Point Towers and he went on to fly for QF. (He was also the subject of a controversial reinstatement after medical termination). Modesty was not one of his shining virtues, either. Just saying.

TRIVIAL PURSUIT QUESTION . .. Ernest K Gann . . . what does the K stand for? Hint - breakfast cereal...(the father was extremely wealthy)

[Dora-9]

Fantome:

You were at Echuca for the AAAA event, immaculate Rapide and all! Did you talk to the lovely old gent who owned the B33 in the hangar there? He confessed that was the source of the Beech "throw over" yoke control cable AD - he was about to roll, taking two disabled kids and their helper for a flight, did his control check and thought the elevators "felt funny" so returned to the ramp. It was indeed "funny" - the elevator cable had parted company with the elevator!

[Fantome]

ah Rodbag . . . missed that encounter. Much the pity there was just not the time or opportunity to catch up with many of the characters who rocked up to Echuca (as will happen again 2016, 2017 and 2018, barring armageddon) Also missed seeing Edgar Pickles one of the stalwarts of bomber command still alive and kicking.

As a very English EWA training captain, native of Stoke on Trent , used to intone -

"so much to do . . . . so little time"

he also used to quip -

"all we have to look forward to . . . is our nostalgia. .damn it!"

[Dora-9]

I always manage to talk myself hoarse at the AAAA events...

[Fantome]

cannot recall a hoarse voice . . . . or even a whinny .. or a neigh

[megan]

a Victa Airtourer of the Royal Aero Club of NSW, pupil and instructor on board, had elevator jam in flight. Instructor found he could get enough pitch authority to slightly raise or lower the nose by delicate power changes and by cautious adjustment with the trim lever.Bit hard using trim in that case Fantome. Trim being springs in the elevator circuit, no tabs out in the breeze.

[Mick.B]

I created my own FLIC check at the threshold ready to roll.


Flaps, Landing lights, Instruments and finally Controls.

[LeadSled]

Incidentally, his initials were RR, he had an apartment in Seidler's Blues Point Towers and he went on to fly for QF.Fantome,

Are you certain about the Blues Point Tower bit, at the time said RDJBR got a job with QF, I was living in said tower, and never came across him, and I knew him well from ASBK.

He was mostly a denizen of the eastern suburbs, I would have put him as one of those who thought you needed a visa to cross the bridge, Grab-a-Granny night at the Mosman Rowers excepted.

Having had the pleasure of flying with him as his F/O, I was really looking forward to having him as my F/O during the year he had to fly as such, until he got back into Upper L1.

Tootle pip!!

[ehwatezedoing]

Ok then. So everyone checks their flight controls but how many check both ailerons when turning the control wheel both ways?

It's part of the pre-take off check on the DC-3T.
We check the "four" corners up to their stop (plus rudders)
When the correct aileron goes up, pilot sitting on its side call "I'm up" the other one "I'm down" and vice-versa... Nothing related with Viagra's effectiveness :=

We also call each trim setting religiously.




And tail wheel lock...

[Fantome]

megan . . . Trim being springs in the elevator circuit, no tabs out in the breeze. true , but in the case of this failure , I'm pretty sure that while Roger had loss of the primary control, the spring bias was operable to the extent that it enabled some elevator authority

any Victa Association member could confirm, if true


Leadie . . .. seems I could be wrong about his domicile
One bloke who has a lot of RACNSW history hived away in his head from the early 60s
worked in the flight office and drove a black Austin 10. Rex Booth.
Rexie, after the ashen faced RR taxied back up the apron after his
'save', dubbed him ' the ace of the base'.
What you say about his eastern suburb predilections is no surprise.
But 'grab a grannie' at the Mosman Rowers , now that conjures up
quite a flush of nostalgia .

(When RB moved to Perth to fly for Doug Muir he upgraded to a snappy
little MG. He flew Doug's Baron 'the fast one' and the Travelair 'the quiet one'. That was how the Beechcraft were respectively billed in the air charter sales brochure. Much later RB was flying to the ice in Skytrader's A319, a checkie. Over in the west he shared the flying with the late Grant 'Slim' Rosier)

[TBM-Legend]

Jetcraft Metro 11 nearly planted at BK on a post major wing repair (got hit by an MU2 on the taxiway) was nearly planted after the MRO replaced the elevator trim switch in the reverse sense. Captain G held his cool and recovered the aircraft after a circuit . Trim functioned perfectly except in wrong sense.

[Oktas8]

I created my own FLIC check at the threshold ready to roll.

When flight instructing / examining in GA, flying lots of different aircraft and several different clubs, each with their own checklists...

Before rolling, I used to ensure the student/candidate had tested the five things that could kill or seriously embarrass me. The other 87 items in the checklist I didn't worry about so much.

Controls F&F
Trim set
Flap set
Harnesses checked (both seat belt & radios)
Doors closed.

Can't claim credit though - I borrowed the list from someone else. :)

[splitty]

Many Years ago in NZ a DHC Beaver was Completely rebuilt then Attempted a T/O with Crossed Ailerons Result = Write Off + 2 injured people..! So Check Freedom of Controls Plus Correct Imputs..!

[Bravohotel]

That Beaver crash occurred at Gisborne following a major overhaul of the airframe the pilot (HC) was in town from Masterton as his Beaver was on a 100 hour check and offered to do the test flight only to end up in Hospital for a few months he did return to fly another day.