Passport exit checks begin at UK ports and borders - BBC News

[ExXB]

Passport exit checks begin at UK ports and borders - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32205970)

It isn't clear from this (thanks BBC) of what impact this will have at UK airports? Or is this just something for sea/Chunnel crossings.

"The government said they were needed to combat illegal immigration"

Combat illegal immigration by checking those on the way out? Seems reasonable :ugh:

[DaveReidUK]

It isn't clear from this (thanks BBC) of what impact this will have at UK airports? Or is this just something for sea/Chunnel crossings.

On the contrary, the article makes it pretty clear that the existing APIS fulfils the same function for air passengers.

Combat illegal immigration by checking those on the way out? Seems reasonable

Yes it does. There is currently no effective way of checking that someone on a tourist or educational visa has left the country by the required date and isn't remaining in the country illegally. Hence passport exit checks.

[ATNotts]

Did I hear correctly on the BBC report this morning, that the responsibility for these "exit checks" (which in my opinion are totally pointless for EU/EEA destinations) are to be carried out by the carriers (airlines, handling agents and Eurotunnel)?

If this is the case then HMG has brought in "Daily Mail" friendly legislation, then expecting the industry to carry out the checks / police the border.

Good game; good game!!

[ExXB]

It would seem that the airlines have the data through APIS and I suppose will not do anything more than they do today. That is until they have to 'verify'.

But it is the 'verification' that isn't clear to me. Will they need to verify the APIS against the document or the data input on arrival, or both?

What happens if the data is inconsistent? Do they refuse to board? Why? They are leaving. What happens if the airline staff make a mistake and verify something that shouldn't be, or vice versa?

What happens if the passengers document changes after arrival in the UK? A replacement passport, for example?

When/where will the check and verification be done? Only logical place/time would be at boarding slowing that process.

[6000PIC]

Passport exit checks are a smart but long overdue strategy to combat the illegal movement of people. When criminals know they will be checked going " the other way " , this will hinder their heretofore free movement into and out of the UK. Check everybody. Profile as needed. Inquire , question , interrogate as necessary. We might not collectively realize it , but to many crazy religious lunatic nut-jobs , we are at war. We must protect ourselves and this island nation , no matter what short term pain or inconvenience we encounter.

[ExXB]

6000PIC

If that is the objective, fine. But I don't see this as meeting that objective. All you do is increase the Immigration people's knowledge of those that followed the rules. It doesn't increase their knowledge of those that do not follow the rules.

Why don't they require sea/chunnel operators to collect APIS? Why don't they ask airlines (and sea/chunnel operators) to advise if/when a non-EU passenger no-shows their return journey? Now that might be effective.

As someone familiar with intra-schengen travel, travelling to/from the UK is already a pain. And this 'verification' is going to make it worse, much worse. Even if it added only 30 seconds to each passenger at the gate that's an hour for 120 passengers.

By all means protect your borders, but please, do it in a way that is effective and doesn't penalise the vast majority of people who are no threat.

[PAXboy]

I have a dream that, one day, politicians wil not do the knee-jerk policy to impress their respective newspaper barons ... :hmm:

[MG23]

So how's this supposed to work, then? I enter the UK on my UK passport, and leave on my Canadian passport.

[Background Noise]

I think both sides probably know about the other one.

[ExXB]

MG

In theory your passport should be 'verified' against the APIS date you submitted before your inbound flight to the UK.

So, in theory, you will be asked to produce your UK passport. What happens if you can't produce it? Years in gaol (jail) I would imagine, dual nationality is an evil thing.

[dc9-32]

Anyone would think there is an election coming up in the UK :ugh:

[strake]

dual nationality is an evil thing.

ExXB Do expand on your premise...

strake - Evil (apparently) dual nationality person.

[ExXB]

Sorry, I forgot to insert the 'sarcasm' smilie ... :ugh:

[parabellum]

Exit passport checks are nothing new in the UK, don't know when they stopped but I first went overseas in 1963, they were in then and I think they were still in around 1998?

[PAXboy]

That rings a bell, parabellum I've no idea when it stopped as you get used to it being done in other countries.

[ExXB]

You two are correct, but exit checks were done away with nearly 20 years ago. Why did they do this? Well the UK no longer applied currency export restrictions and they found that they served no practical purpose. The checks were costly and required significant resources to support.

So they reintroduce checks for 'safety and security reasons' which sounds very hollow to me and pass the costs along to commercial businesses.

As dc9-32 says this is more about being seen as doing something before an election than about actually addressing the problems ...

[Evanelpus]

This is to try and find out who is leaving to undertake on the job training with ISIS?

If so, let the buggars go, get them arrested at the other end and don't, under any circumstances, ever let them re-enter the UK.

Job done.:ok:

[cavortingcheetah]

And at passport control will those enmeshed in haïks, burqas, abayas and hijabs be absolved from revealing themselves in public?

[edi_local]

Preusmably everyone will have to show their face at exit checks, just like entrance checks?

I wonder how this will be introduced at airports. Surely they will have to either deploy UKBF staff to every international gate (rather than the spot checks they currently do) or rebuild departure lounges to include separate international and domestic areas?

Im not sure which is better. Option 1 would need a hell of a lot more UKBF staff but could be implemented very quickly and option 2 would cause huge disruption at airports as they work to rebuild their post-security areas, much like schengen and non schengen areas in Europe today, but they would have a single point of checks with limited extra staff numbers. Option 1 would mean faster journeys through the terminal until the gate, option 2 would mean that once security and immigration are done there is then no further delay.

[ExXB]

edit-local

As much as I can determine from this interweb thingy it is the transport company that is responsible for the 'verification'.

For air passengers the airlines will continue to send API information for departing passengers (and I assume the UKBF will collate this against the inbound API sent prior to arrival). The airline/ground agent will be responsible for the verification - and that process is not clear. Will they, as they do today, simply match the passport surname against the airline PNR data, or will they be required to match it against the API data (Names, Country, Gender, DOB, Document number, etc). If it's the former, it won't work. If it's the latter then add a minute or two per departing passenger.

The Sea/Chunnel companies will not be collecting/sending API for either arriving or departing passengers. But, on departure, their staff will be 'verifying' the documentation. Obviously not against API data but it's not clear against what they will have to make the comparison.

On a video clip on the BBC they showed a checkpoint at (I think) the chunnel. Car rolls up, driver collects and passes the passports to a staff member in a booth. (Booth is high enough up for both trucks and cars). Staff member verifies, but I can't see how without getting everyone to get out of the car. S/he can't possibly see and compare photos with all faces.

I think the UK voting population is being sold a pig in a poke.

[edi_local]

Far be it from me to criticise check in staff (I used to be one) but they are not Border agents and nor should they be. If UK Govt wants to check those going out then they really should be doing the job, like they are for train and sea travel. Anyone wishing to slip out will do so by air unless a proper check is being done.

So a person slips out by booking a ticket from LHR to JNB, for example. They may have overstayed by 3 or 4 months, but should they check in online how is it going to stop them from boarding? What if they online check in a put a load of gumpf into the system? Even if they drop off a bag then the passport is highly unlikely to be scanned as there is no need, the system generated a boarding pass based on what was put in.

I can't think of a time anyone has checked to see if the APIS details I put in online match what is actually on my passport. I do wonder if this will now change. Anyone who has online checked in will either need to verify APIS before going through security, causing delays, or at the gate, by which time it'll be difficult to stop anyone...and also slow down boarding.

On the subject of verifying who is in cars etc. I've crossed Dover-Calais numerous times in the past few years and I think only twice (out of maybe 4 or 5 times) has anyone from France (based in Dover) actually checked my passport, on one occasion the booths were all closed. I got all the way from West London to the Slovenia/Croatia border once and my passport didn't leave my glove compartment until I got stopped there! Also, at said border, they took all the passports of the people in my car, gave them a glance, didn't even bother to look in the car, stamped them all and away I went, same a few days later when I was leaving Croatia. The Slovenes were a bit more official, being an External EU/Schengen border...however a few days later in Calais, no one from France was there to "check us out". :}

[justawanab]

So, if you are a dual national going back to your "other home" does this mean you need to show both passports?

One for the country you are going to, to demonstrate you have a right to enter there, as you already need to and one for the country you are leaving to demonstrate you are "allowed" to leave?

[ExXB]

I believe the advice to dual-nationals is to use the same document throughout their journey. However it is a good idea to have your other document to hand if it is necessary to produce it. That is if you possess a second document.

[Flightwatch]

I have 2 grandsons, one a dual national and one a triple (born in the U.S. Of foreign parents). From all the reading we have done it seems a requirement that they MUST show the passport of the country they are leaving/entering. They have always done this and we give the APIS of the country they are starting their journey from on the ticket. So far no problems or complaints.

[PAXboy]

A friend of mine says that the only time he got a bad reaction from the passport person was when he showed his destination country's document, rather than for his departure (his country of residence). It seemed that the automatic look up then knew about the other document.