Vulcan compressor blade question

[El Grifo]

Not sure where to post this exactly so I will start here.

Had this thing lying around my shed for ever. Picked it up somewhere along the way Google Image Result for http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m26/pmessling/SNC00034.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m26/pmessling/SNC00034.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www9.mg-cars.org.uk/mgoc260/f0rum/showthread.php?4942-Avro-Vulcan-turbine-blade&h=600&w=800&tbnid=fCsyMW4Ru-Sa7M:&zoom=1&docid=D2NckkFURvFVVM&ei=4uIfVZbrEMjqUrjkgPgM&tbm=isch&ved=0CCMQMygDMAM)

In a moment of boredom a few weeks back I decided to try and polish it up for display.
I initially wanted to check if my sanding wheel would touch it and seeing that it did, I kept at it for a few minutes without any mask or protection.

Since then I have had this chest thing going on which the doc initially treated with a 3 day course of antibiotics followed by a 5 day course. I also spent a week in the northerly climes during this episode and assumed that I was suffering from a simple respiratory infection.

Although it is better than it was, it has not cleared up.

Is there anything in the coating of the blade that could have perhaps exacerbated the situation.

Odd question I agree, but maybe there is someone out there who can chuck me some pointers !

El G.

[flipflopman RB199]

El Grifo,

The Olympus compressor blades were all treated with 'Rockhard' stove enamelling, to help protect against erosion and corrosion of the aluminium alloy blades.

I can't tell you exactly what it contains unfortunately, but I've found this link (http://www.indestructible.co.uk/rockhard-in-detail/) which may help.

There is reference on there to the green stove enamel resin being applied to the Pegasus engine compressor blades, and given that the Olympus and Pegasus were both Bristol designs, I'd suggest it's fundamentally the same stuff.

Hope that's of some use. :ok:

[El Grifo]

Thanks flipflop
I will study that when I get back. Incidentally the coating was glossy brown.

El G.

[El Grifo]

So far, I have narrowed it down to this based on the coating colour.

576-450-002 Rockhard Clear Stoving Enamel & Microporous Casting Sealer (http://www.indestructible.co.uk/576-450-002/)

The health and safety spec is only available on request.

Lets see if they send me one !

Thanks flopflop !

El G.

[Stu666]

Did a little digging and found this:

Safety Data Sheet Ref: 576-450-002 (http://web.archive.org/web/20070415125227/http://www.indestructible.co.uk/h&s/html/576-450-002.htm)

Hope this helps El Grifo, and wishing you a speedy recovery :ok:

[Army Mover]

..... Odd question I agree, but maybe there is someone out there who can chuck me some pointers !

El Grifo; I've just read the MSDS Stu666 linked to. It reminds me of a similar thing that happened to me some years ago. I was refurbishing an old bike and after removing all the old paint, re-sprayed it in my cellar. Rather stupidly, I didn't use any PPE to protect myself either from the old paint dust, or the fumes from the new paint. A few days later, I developed something of a chest problem; went to the Army MO who misdiagnosed Asthma; overnight I had gone from a physically fit soldier, to someone who struggled to pass the Army Basic Fitness test. It took a long time to work out what had happened (in fact, after I left the military); it was almost (99.9%) certainly down to that bike and the paint (can't be 100% as I don't have the tech data for the paint I used all those years ago).

For what it's worth, my advice is to go see a doctor and tell him everything that happened.

[El Grifo]

Thanks guys ! I will give it until midweek and if no marked improvement I will visit the doc !

El G.

[Courtney Mil]

My first thought is, "Why would you want to vandalise such an unusual historical piece?"

After that, you need to see your doctor, take the blade with you and explain what you have done. I expect you have exposed yourself to something that would be a severe irritant, hence the respiratory problems. Enamel is a glass-like substance and you really don't want to ingest or inhale glass dust. You may have to press the issue to make sure your condition is understood. Not many GPs would have any idea of what materials are involved or what the physiological effects may be.

Act now, don't wait for some hoped-for improvement. Even if symptoms do subside, that may not reflect longer term issues. Call your doc for an appointment as soon as the Easter weekend break is over.

As it's a resin and created for specific uses, any data sheet is only likely to offer safety advice for its use during normal usage. I doubt they will offer you help regarding hazards during removal, especially without personal protection - so don't wait for that.

[El Grifo]

Thanks for your input Courtney.

To response to your "thought", I have been in possession of the item for several decades now, during which time it has simply lurked in a dark corner of my shed.

Years ago, I saw a similar item which had been cleaned up, polished to a beautiful finish and mounted on a block of solid beech wood. It looked fantastic !

Rather that having it continue its sad little existence in the back of my shed, I thought I would follow suit.

The prospect of it gracing a shelf in my living room and the possibility of the conversations raised by it's presence were the reasons I chose to "vandalise" the item.

I of course, take issue with the term "vandalise"

El G.

[Wader2]

Polished and mounted Vulcan compressor blades were made by aviation memorabilia, all original and only available here at ESAG (http://www.esag.org.UK)

Contact them they may have some useful information.

[El Grifo]

Appreciate that Wader !

El G.

[rsupwoods]

As the item is a Turbine Blade and not a compressor blade, it's probably unplated nimonic alloy.

[El Grifo]

It's really the coating and the stupid unprotected stripping of the coating that really concerns me. Thanks nevertheless ! Any info ??
El G.

[Always a Sapper]

While not a trained medic etc my thoughts are that a Chest x-ray is required asp and look towards symptons along the lines of Asbestosis.

Material make up may well be similar once airborne (fine fibres) although the Asbestos would be much finer by a considerable magnitude the absorption route into the lungs is the same and the end result is likely to be similar unless the body is able to break down the fibres, which as we all know it cant with the asbestos fibres.

Sorry to put such a dismal spin on the problem and I wish you luck for a good outcome.

Message to all, if the PPE is requried at work for any process, then USE THE ***** STUFF AT HOME as well when doing similar DIY!

[flipflopman RB199]

rsupwoods,

Have you honestly posted on here to 'correct' everyone based solely upon an EBay description of the component? It's a compressor blade, as evident from the coating, the shape and the lack of tip shroud or cooling holes.

Notwithstanding this, hopefully it'll simply be a case of coincidence, El Grifo. Thinking about it, RAF Cosford are still, to this day teaching blade blending techniques on Turbomeca Adour compressor blades which are also coated with grey Rockhard, so I'd imagine that the H&S implications have been looked at somewhere along the line. I'd still suggest Courtney's advice is worth following though, if only to set your own mind at rest.

[El Grifo]

Got an appointment with the doc !

Bear in mind that I live on a small Spanish Island and although the facilities are pretty good, this kind of thing may well be outwith their remit.

Although my chest area feels a bit better than it did, there is still a "heavy" slightly hot sensation.

The coating on the blade was very "glass like" and sanded off as an almost invisible powder rather than fibres. I only sanded about 80% of one side.

We shall see !

El G.

[Evanelpus]

Would love to be a fly on the wall when you explain that you think it might be down to polishing a Vulcan compressor blade!! Ai carumba!;)

Good look matey!:ok:

[El Grifo]

A full report will be published mate. Just be thankful it is Spain where I live and not Argentina :ok:

[El Grifo]

One reply so far from an organisation with some experience :-

Sorry to hear of your problem.

You mention that you polished the blade and then you mention a sanding wheel which are two different things.

If you indeed polished it, we polished many hundreds of this type of blade without any respiratory protection and none of us suffered any ill effects so I can only assume it was a coincidence.

If you used some sort of abrasive material you may well have created fine particles but whether the small amount you speak about would cause a problem I don't know but I doubt it, however I am not a medical expert.

I hope the problem clears up soon.

Followed by :- As far as I am aware there is no coating on the blades other than oxidation. Actually I made a mistake, we never polished blades as they were too hard, I was thinking of brass and steel cannon shell casings.

Still awaiting info from "Rockhard"

El G.

[Pontius Navigator]

Where safety data sheets fall down is where the 'user' undertakes a process that was never envisaged by the COSH assessor. An example was Magnavox recording tape.

In normal handling the tape was assessed to have no hazard. I cannot recall if there was a hazard from the tape being subjected to fire, however that was not what we did. Magnavox said the tape posed no problems.

We hacked the spooled tape with a hacksaw so that it was in strips no longer than 18 inches and less. We then put it through volumetric disintegrator. We finished up with a fine powder substance.

We described the process to Magnavox and the answer was a lemon.

The end result, when you considered all the modifications we did to different materials was withdrawal of the disintegrator. It was a Russian device so I guess they hadn't been worried about COSH.

[El Grifo]

This is exactly the prob Pontius. The data info is virtually useless in my case as it covers all aspects of application and none of removal of the coating.

The doc took one look at me and exclaimed "Que" !!!

That is about as far as I really got.

The condition however is without doubt, improving.

El G

[El Grifo]

Been to the hospital, had an X-Ray, translated the data sheets kindly supplied and also took along the blade.

The specialist found nothing, but said that the amount ingested or inhaled would be too small and fine to show up anyway.

The data sheets proved to be of no value for the exact reason that Pontius pointed out.

I have had no reply from the coating specialist at Rockhard despite sending emails.

My lungs have improved a great deal, but whether it is psychological or not, I still feel all is not 100%.

Time will tell. Thanks for the input guys !

El G.