CYPRUS LOA

[KPax]

Just read that the LOA has been cut in Cyprus by 33%, hell of a cut with not a lot of notice. Is it really that cheap out there now?

[Sygyzy]

I'm afraid I must be the only one.....WTF does LOA stand for......

In the same way as Tesco stands for good food at reasonable prices??

S:ugh:

[jonw66]

Local Overseas Allowance.
Can't help you Kpax

[Could be the last?]

Well it took a 50% hit in 2010/11 (fact)! Not much of an incentive to go across there if this is correct.

[The Nip]

Considering the Euro exchange rate, this must have had has a large effect with the FFR so it has been adjusted.

[Party Animal]

I suspect it is more to do with the vast increase in people claiming Cyprus LOA over the last few months. Another promotion push by A8/J8 staff looking good by making savings.

[vascodegama]

Surely the first thing that happened on Op Shader was the declaration of field conditions and therefore the elimination of the right to LOA.

[Melchett01]

Isn't that what the rather embarrassing whining in public was about - the state of rations and thus the implication that they were on field conditions?

[Cornish Jack]

In 72/3(?) the Cyprus L.O.A. was increased and two wives were discussing it in the N.A.A.F.I. shop. Another wife overheard and tasked her husband with explaining what this was all about. With a straight face he said " That's alright dear, I didn't want you to worry about it so I've taken care of it":E

[ian16th]

In October 1962 my LOA was £7-0-3 a week and LORA was another £3-8-10.

I thought that I had just landed with my bum in the butter.:ok:

[skippedonce]

LOSLOA in Belgium was been cut by about 40% wef 1 Apr 15, notified on 1 Apr 15: for a moment I thought it was an EJSU April Fool joke, then realised that EJSU lacks the wit to even try.

[Could be the last?]

I was under the impression that due to the general lack of volunteers for jobs overseas, and the feedback from various surveys that the total package for going abroad was being reviewed - with a view to it being made more attractive and not reduced further!!

[4everAD]

LOA for a Sqn Ldr with 2 children in Germany is now a whopping £3 a day, that will compensate you for the whole cost of moving your family abroad /wrecking your credit score etc. Equivalent rate 4 years ago was £21 a day now tell me that is all to do with the ffr fluctuating and not a blatant cost saving measure. Here in Cyprus I will be £156 a month worse off because of the loa reduction as I rather recklessly send money back to the UK to a government backed/protected savings account, shame on me for not trusting the robbing Cypriot government.

The "Package" has been reviewed and the amazing measures they came up with were:
1. Increased disturbance allowance on outward move only (£400 extra), but loa will be cut accordingly. Basically they have incorporated the satellite/cable element into the disturbance allowance so will remove that element from loa. Cost effect neutral.
2. Unaccompanied VSOs will get full disturbance when they move into their official residence. Cost effect, who cares about VSOs?
3. Extra flights for children at boarding schools. Cost effect, trooper flights are on anyway so I imagine not a great deal.
4. Those travelling on posting to NW Europe can now have a nights subsistence. Cost effect, how many personnel do we have now in NW Europe, 100-200?
I may have missed others off but you get the idea, IMO they want people to serve abroad but aren't prepared to make it attractive enough to get people to volunteer. If you need 2 wages to pay your mortgage and have a comfortable life (including your partner having a rewarding career) then who in their right mind is going to go overseas and live off one wage and the pittance that loa has become?

[Whenurhappy]

Putting LOA to one side - and the change is principally due to the strong pound/ weak Euro, the recently-announced overseas package is welcome. There are still about 10,000 personnel in NW Europe, although this is drawing down by the day.

The SCV increase from 3 to 6 pa is very welcome. To us, also out East, that's worth about £2000 pa.

But there are still many anomalies. I've just spent a lot of money augmenting my uniform for my post - some of it is funded, some of it (eg fitting sword hooks, for example) is not! On occasions the security state requires me and my wife to use the CAV; fine for duty but if we, say, use the tank to drive from work to the apartment, we are billed an extortionate amount. Let's hope the terrorists only work office hours!

However, the biggie, which will never be properly addressed, is the loss of spousal earnings and impact on their careers.

[Lordflasheart]

I found this in Hansard -

British Forces, Cyprus (Local Overseas Allowance)

HC Deb 22 April 1964 vol 693 cc1294-6

Mr. Driberg (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/people/mr-tom-driberg)
"Would the right hon. Gentleman say why he did not include this information with the other information which he gave in reply to Question No. 33 last Wednesday, in which it was asked for? Was this because the local overseas allowance for British troops is only 15s. 9d. a week as compared with the £7 paid to the Swedes ?"
Have we caught up with the Swedes yet ?

And from the Army Families Federation website

The LOA rates for Cyprus are scheduled to be updated in October 2015.That'll be to align with the NCP then ..... ?....... LFH

[Bob Viking]

4everAD.
Is that Sqn Ldr rate correct?! That's barely worth bothering with. Thank God I'm in Canada then. I won't tell you what the rate is or you might hunt me down and kill me! Although I won't pretend that the cost of living I as cheap here as it once was.
BV

[4everAD]

Don't have the figures in front of me but the Sgt rate was approx £3 and I believe the Sqn Ldr rate is the same. I appreciate we probably don't have many personnel left in Germany and those that are there are due home very soon but £3 loa a day is an insult and those that are there must be glad to be coming home.
In addition to the list of enhancements to the overseas offer I forgot this gem:
You can now have a 4 month advance of pay on an overseas posting but this still has to be paid back in a year and if it adds up to more than £10000 you'll get stung by the tax man. By doing this MOD are kind of admitting that the set up costs for moving overseas are at least 4 months net pay but they're not prepared to meet this cost, they'd rather personnel put themselves in debt and struggle for the first year.

[Herc-u-lease]

While the RAF has a small number of interesting overseas assignments and the number of willing participants is greater than assignments available, the RAF can ratchet down the benefits until such a time as supply = demand. I was on the end of a sharp LOA decrease - did that stop my successor coming out? absolutely not, he took full advantage of the travel and social opportunities available in the foreign country irrespective of the personal and career costs. As long as people are still queuing up to go, the benefits will continue to fall.

H

[4everAD]

Herc, the point is at some locations we have reached that point, at my location we can't get personnel to volunteer to come out: all sorts of manning levers are being pulled but we've had people turn down promotion rather than come here.

[Herc-u-lease]

4AD,

That is a sad state of affairs. There was no shortage of volunteers for my slot. However, I did take a substantial financial hit moving overseas - I estimate it took ~12 months to recover my "investment" and that was with a good LOA rate. Unsurprising people are are choosing not to lose money.

H

[Al R]

Money isn't everything - 30 years ago this very weekend, I first got to know my girl down at a windswept Ladies Mile. Some have seen the pictures - enough said about my sad demise the better.

Whenurhappy makes a good point about spousal/partner disadvantage - the X Factor allowance for that, and other factors, crept up to just 14.5% in the latest AFPRB report - wholly inadequate. In terms of the attraction of an overseas posting, it's interesting to note that PWC skims lightly over the financial 'benefits' when comparing military with civilian remuneration too.

Al Rush | Comparing remuneration packages between military and civilian sectors (http://t.co/eJb3wBdIsL)

Going off on a tangent, according to PWC, the military pension benefit is worth 16% and 36% for Squadron Leaders and Wing Commanders respectively. Worth the drop in LOA?

[Whenurhappy]

The RAF doesn't unilaterally adjust allowances. For the better part of 10 years allowances have been the same across the three Services. The Army, naturally, has the biggest input to changes (and that is still predicated on an 18 year old single soldier posted to Germany for the first time).

[Willard Whyte]

If that's TD, don't be bitter, enjoy the railway!

[b707eng]

If that's TD, don't be bitter, enjoy the railway!
Over that and not bitter. Only pointing out that stuff happens. I was trying to make a point about LOA but not a good idea on a mobile device

[Autobahnstormer]

Just been chatting to a JR about this. His LOA has gone from a fiver a day to 39p. Admittedly he didn't take an overseas tour to line his pockets, but the so-called adjustment to the FFR in no way justifies this slashing of LOA. People will vote with their feet and posts will be gapped (again).

[Sandy Parts]

a far cry from the 70's when my old man was a cpl at Kolsas (Norway). His LOA exceeded his daily pay! Plus access to (rationed) duty free booze - happy days apparently :p
Makes you wonder what Embassy staff get in the way of LOA equivalent?

[faarn]

Just seen this and must say I am thoroughly pee'd off. I wrote in a thread a few year back that I accepted an overseas post and a slight financial loss to my family and was happy with this as it was an opportunity. With the LOA in Germany now 25% of what it was I will get about £90 a month. Considering our weekly food shop is more here than England and our insurance (car and home) costs us about £250 a month as opposed to £100 in UK, we are now seriously out of pocket. I can't see why anyone would bother with such losses. The only positive is childcare, €200 a month full time per child which I guess more than makes up for it in our case but not in many peoples.

With this and more possible redundancies in the future the government can go :mad:, they won't get my vote.

[Whenurhappy]

Faarn,

You have my deep sympathy as exactly the same happened to us in our previous overseas posting - cut from £45 pd to about £8 in a very short timeframe. Factor in loss of spousal earnings, higher mobile phone, internet, insurance and other costs, the financial equation doesn't add up. However, we had a great time, lived in an absolutely stunning part of the world and our kids became uber-brat skiers.

In my current appointment, we are on different TACOS and get a different package - yes, it is a lot more generous, but it just brings us up to what we were on in UK with my wife working in a good - but low paid - job. Again, a great experience, but loss of career time again for my wife.

[Brewers Droop]

LOA for singlies in my little part of the Continent has reduced to...........0.00! Accompanied rates has effectivelly halved.

But have been told that we are no worse off....so thats all right then... :*

[Sandy Parts]

faarn - i would think the responsibility for the LOA cuts lies in MoD rather than Govt. Up to MoD how they slice the diminishing pie, guess they see LOA as an easy target. I'm sure they must have some evidence to back-up the cuts....(or maybe they are just working on the premise "overseas, sound like a jolly to me, why would they need extra cash?" :rolleyes:)
As the AFPRB don't cover allowances (unless their remit has changed?), I suspect the only factor that would affect LOA amounts would be repeated bending of the 3-stars' ears by the manning staff about gapped posts? Very hard to quantify the returns on the increased costs of a service person on overseas tour, especially when we no longer have the 'spare' capacity. (not my view - just guessing at the all-powerful bean-counters assessment).

[faarn]

i would think the responsibility for the LOA cuts lies in MoD rather than Govt. Up to MoD how they slice the diminishing pie, guess they see LOA as an easy target. I'm sure they must have some evidence to back-up the cuts....

While of course you are right I can't vote for my Lords and Masters so the nearest I can get is the forthcoming election or with my feet (although still waiting, hopefully, to reach my pension point). The problem is I don't think any other party would be any better!

As far as the huge reduction in LOA this is apparently due to a number of factors:

1. The FRR has increased by 10% this month.
2. The improved offer to those serving overseas. More money for disturbance expenses (about £400 more but only one way); greater flexibility for travel on assignment (you can now claim subsistence during relocation travel); and twice as many school children’s visits each year (6 instead of 3).

Not sure how any of that can justify such a big drop!

If I were to get an opportunity in the future to go overseas I would certainly not dismiss it but would most likely do it unaccompanied. I have enjoyed my 3 years in Germany so no regrets.

[Brewers Droop]

W + F
My experience of being overseas seems pretty similar to yours. Not my first time and overall my family have been given the gift of experiencing cultures and events that give them a truly international outlook. Up to recently I would not have missed it for the world. Enduring friendships across many nations, better weather, great locations, fascinating work, and an enormous photobook of happy memories. I would add that looking back at the UK from living Overseas gives you a whole different perspective on the UK, and not necessarily a bad one.

But there are limits to this. For me it increasingly makes absolutely no financial sense at all. In particular, the system seems to be perpetually stuck in the 1950s were they believe the spouse dutifully gives up his/her job and the children happily wave at their freinds as they disappear to follow the flag. Also that we all live in FMQs and march out one day in the UK, have a jolly ferry trip, then in to our shiny exciting overseas pad like on some Pathe newsreel. The reality is that the effect on the spouse in terms of loss of spousal career and income is conveniently ignored. And as a home owner (encouraged by the military) you either pay for two houses simultaneously or put yourself at the mercy of a tenant which from bitter experience are not all nice people and don’t always pay or look after your house.

Overall, my opinion is instead of tinkering with LOA and other allowances as they have just done, the whole overseas package (not just allowances) needs ripping apart and building from fresh by someone who is not institutionalised in the current system and actually lives in the 21st Century.

[Whenurhappy]

B-D (I hope note),

I could not have written a better summary myself. It's the little things that have pissed us off: the 'march out' from SFA; the arcane rules on accommodation in transit, and God forbid if you want to travel by car rather than by the cheapest, nastiest budget airline that DTMO can find (which is used to calculate the equivalent amount if you decide to drive across Europe). The 'if your wife doesn't submit a Medical form we won't send you your tickets', the 'well, you were issued warm weather uniform in 1990 - we can't possibly issue you new kit now', the used of the term 'dependent', the inability to be able to take long-term partners abroad....we are stuck (as you say) in some 1950s Pathe newsreel; two fibre-board suitcases, stepping off the Britannia into bright sunshine, to be met by the AMO and a wheezy Bedford Bus.

[4everAD]

W + F
My experience of being overseas seems pretty similar to yours. Not my first time and overall my family have been given the gift of experiencing cultures and events that give them a truly international outlook. Up to recently I would not have missed it for the world. Enduring friendships across many nations, better weather, great locations, fascinating work, and an enormous photobook of happy memories. I would add that looking back at the UK from living Overseas gives you a whole different perspective on the UK, and not necessarily a bad one.

But there are limits to this. For me it increasingly makes absolutely no financial sense at all. In particular, the system seems to be perpetually stuck in the 1950s were they believe the spouse dutifully gives up his/her job and the children happily wave at their freinds as they disappear to follow the flag. Also that we all live in FMQs and march out one day in the UK, have a jolly ferry trip, then in to our shiny exciting overseas pad like on some Pathe newsreel. The reality is that the effect on the spouse in terms of loss of spousal career and income is conveniently ignored. And as a home owner (encouraged by the military) you either pay for two houses simultaneously or put yourself at the mercy of a tenant which from bitter experience are not all nice people and don’t always pay or look after your house.

Overall, my opinion is instead of tinkering with LOA and other allowances as they have just done, the whole overseas package (not just allowances) needs ripping apart and building from fresh by someone who is not institutionalised in the current system and actually lives in the 21st Century.
Well said, I couldn't have put it better myself, the whole overseas package is not fit for purpose and tinkering with little enhancements here and there will not solve anything.

[teeteringhead]

'well, you were issued warm weather uniform in 1990 - we can't possibly issue you new kit now', I think I can better that one.

In 2002, I was posted to a "semi-representational" post in a hot country, so put in for a No 6 uniform.

No, they said, you'd been issued with the allowance and/or kit when you were posted to that part of the World before.

Yes, I said, but:

a. That was in 1970 - 32 years previously! :eek:

b. The colour had since changed from KD to Stone Grey.

c. In 1970 I was posted to the (then Persian) Gulf, where we didn't wear No6s, just Bush Jackets.

Took 2-star intervention :eek::eek: to get me the kit issued on loan with the greatest reluctance. Strangest thing was, I got to keep the trousers and shirts :ok:, cos they were "next to the skin and can't be re-issued" but had to give back the natty No 6 tunic. :{

I've kept the signals (remember them?) somewhere, it's such an unbelievable story...... :ugh:

[Sandy Parts]

As I mentioned earlier, I wonder what the civil service / FCO Embassy Staff package is like in comparison? Don't forget to factor in the lack of Mrs LOA-claimants ability to keep her NI contributions going while unable to work overseas. Will affect her/your future state pension. I think at one time it could be topped up from own funds but not sure that is still an option? All in all, a sorry state of affairs.

[Just This Once...]

Since 2010 Mrs LOA can get full NI contributions when accompanying a service person abroad. There is a form to fill-in and countersigned by the admin people but it is free.

[Just This Once...]

The form for you:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/373954/modca1.pdf

[sharpend]

Forces allowances have always been a subject for debate.

I still recall my posting to Cyprus in the 60s. Being a young bachelor pilot I was not interested in money (how times change), but when I started dating a girl whose father was a UK civil servant I was amazed at what allowances he got, He made a fat profit out of his tour in Cyprus. His rationale was that he was a volunteer to go to Cyprus, we were just servicemen who had to do as we were told.

[Courtney Mil]

I, too, would like to endorse BD's post. Very well said.

When I first saw the headline for this thread I thought, "here we go, whining about allowances." I hereby apologise for even thinking that. Once again, someone is seriously screwing people over. All the changes in the last 40 years - just the ones I'm aware of in my time - have always ended up with the same result. It's the folk out there doing the job that end up bearing the pain and disadvantage.

It's all so sad that the "powers that be" seem to value their people so little.

[Whenurhappy]

Different Departments pay different allowances and benefits to the 'Partners Across Government' who comprise platform (ie Embassy or High Commission) staff. But it's basically this:

- COLA - a bit like LOA, but independently calculated by a company who does this sort of thing for ex pats.
- Hardship allowances, depending on the Post
- Representational allowances if your role involves, well, representational activities.
- allowances for each child in post (including an element for baby sitting).
- Rent and utilities are gratis. Phone and Internet connections included, but not usage.
- Depending on role, domestic help, but with personal contribution.
- if FCO, school fees in toto met.


Before anyone gets on their high horse about the free accn, allocation is to FCO rules and not MODs, so basically, in mosT locations, it will be a furnished apartment. This has led to friction in the past as DAs have insisted on a 'Residence' - something only Ambassadors generally get.

[orgASMic]

As you can imagine, this LOA thing has caused quite a hoo-hah hereabouts. Sadly, it took the wisdom found on ARRSE to illuminate the facts rather than having them explained clearly by the chain of command, so here goes:

The LOA has gone down (24 per cent in my case) but the Forces Fixed Rate has gone up from Eu 1.26 to the Pound to 1.38. The case for the Defence relies on you taking the whole of your salary and LOA into your country of residence at the FFR.

Take last month's salary (A1) and add LOA for last month (B1) and multiply by the FFR for last month (C1). (A1+B1) x C1 = X

Take this month's salary (A2) and add LOA for this month (B2) and multiply by the FFR for this month (C2). (A2+B2) x C2 = Y

If Defence Business Services have done their sums right, X and Y should be comparable ie you should not suffer unduely as a result of the changes.

In my case, I would actually be slightly better off if I had all my salary and LOA paid into my Cypriot account at the current FFR. I would then have to pay bank charges to move money back to UK to service my mortgage, etc and run the risk of a haircut (or worse) if the Cypriot banks fall over again.

So, in theory, the changes should more or less balance out; but in reality, the plan does not survive contact with economics. Or the wife.

[Whenurhappy]

Org...

This cunning plan rests on this:

If Defence Business Services have done their sums right, X and Y should be comparable ie you should not suffer unduly as a result of the changes.

If any of you have had the misfortune to deal with various aspects of DBS (especially their outsourced elements such as payment of overseas schooling bills and the Vetting people) you'll appreciate why I have little confidence in this programme.