Edgley EA-7 Optica G-BOPO

[mauld]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A29M-zANIs

[etimegev]

Whatever happened to the Optica? I seem to remember it was lauded as the best thing since sliced bread when it first came out.

[Flybiker7000]

The supporting text on Youtube explains the sad story of the Optica quite well!
With stall-speed at 58 knot I find it not that purposely fitted for aerial surveillance as one would expect by such a specialized plane :-/

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I remember it was expensive to buy, expensive to run, poor performance for the power in that size airframe, noisy, not easy to fly in the surveillance role due highish wing loading and poor pitch reference with having no forward fuselage.

So really, not much going for it.

[Wander00]

ISTR that the test pilot at some stage was Neville Duke

[N707ZS]

Think the one in the film is still flying.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

From my garden in Gosport, it was certainly quieter than the current day, not that cheap, mechanical palm tree. It seemed to be doing quite well until Hampshire's finest piled KATY in.

[TheiC]

John Edgely was at Farnborough with it last year, looking for business... An internet search will take you swiftly to his company's page (and lots more about the aircraft including a 'where are they now' for each airframe produced).

[chevvron]

Stall speed 58kt? I got the prototype GBGMW back to just over 40 with full flap (flying with Angus McVitie) and it was still very controllable.

[spekesoftly]

The AAIB report on the accident to Optica G-KATY quotes the following stall speeds:-

Bank Angle (Degrees)......0......20......40.......60
Stall Speed (KIAS)..........43.....46......56.......76

[John Farley]

Not sure when he started on the Optica programme but Neville Duke had responsibility for its ‘B’ conditions flying at FLS up to 6 March 1992 when the CAA asked me to take over as Neville was then 70.

I had no beefs with its handling and enjoyed flying it – including Farnborough that year.

Later when a bunch were leased to a Spanish operator I had to get checked out as a TRE on type. On the due day a CAA examiner arrived at Hurn in an HS125. I conducted a formal brief treating him as a student emphasising the need to properly position the ballast weights in either the nose or tail to control the CG because three heavy men in the cockpit gave quite a different CG compared to a small lady flying solo.

I then went on to say the type had a few gotchers which were not spelled out in the pilot’s notes and these really needed watching. Such as the spectacular view could frighten a passenger who might then grab the starboard stick unless it was removed for such a flight. With less than half fuel, if a wing was dropped to view a line feature and heading was maintained with top rudder, after a while all the fuel would run down into the bottom wing and the engine would stop. With the RPM gauge showing zero (the fan would not windmill) it was necessary to use the ground hot start procedure and since this needed two hands the knees had to be used to control the flight path.

The examiner clearly thought the brief was suitably thorough and announced it would not be necessary for us to fly before he signed my paperwork. Happy days.

[Managed Descent]

Happy indeed John. It was all 'analogue' then. If in your judgement as an examiner somebody was obviously competent, the show could be called off and the person signed off. These days it's 'digital'. All the boxes have to be ticked. The professional opinion, often gut feeling doesn't count and the box requirements have to continue all the way to the end. All to do with backside tin plating to avoid litigation. A real shame in a way, I was a TRE in the old days, wouldn't like to do it now.

[Background Noise]

The supporting text on Youtube explains the sad story of the Optica quite well!

ISTR that the test pilot at some stage was Neville Duke

Same youtube text, same poster, same comments as last year by the same OP:

"http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/539423-edgley-ea7-optica.html"

[mauld]

The video footage is different.

[BWSBoy6]

This is a long shot but, apparently, several years ago there was a BBC documentary regarding the demise of Optica and the suspicious fire at the hangar at Old Sarum. I don't suppose anyone has access to this programme? I've checked YouTube but no joy.

Also, does anyone remember Grenville Hodge/Alan Haikney when they were directors of Edgley Optica?

[Madbob]

Wg Cdr Dicky Martin did quite a bit of test flying for the Optica. What he told me of it left me with a clear impression that he liked the aeroplane and thought it fit for purpose. He was saddened that it was not a commercial success but did say that the gold-fish bowl nose did make for excellent visibility but it was not best suited to an inexperienced PPL-holder as it was more complicated that a typical spam-can.


He was and ETPS-trained test pilot and had flown more than 240 types and had over 19,000 hours so he should have been able to tell a good one from a bad one.....


MB

[FlightlessParrot]

Why did it have a ducted fan, rather than a simple pusher propellor? It seems to add complication to what presumably ought to be a simple airframe. Wikipedia says the ducted fan made it quiet. Is that the reason, or were there other considerations, or were ducted fans just thought cool at the time?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that the ducted fan was used because it was a new and cool idea.

I don't have the hours some other people do on the type, but got to do an evaluation on it a few years back and whilst I enjoyed it enormously, thought it was a poor aircraft for the police role.

There were some handling issues - particularly (if my memory is reliable) a spiral instability I didn't like for safe and accurate low level flying. More significantly however were the poor payload (full fuel and 2 crew with no kit, or about 1/3 fuel with 3POB IIRC), the ballast issue John already mentioned, the lack of any stowage for mission kit (cameras and the like), the lack of anywhere to put the large raft of comms gear that a police operator will want, and that it is only certified for day-VMC.

The ground handling I thought was also a bit of an issue - the 45ft wingspan would give issues at many GA airfields (I'm sure it was fine at Hurn - but imagine trying to say drop into Elstree), and the offset nosewheel with its asymmetric turning circle was entertaining.

And whilst I thought that the bubble nose was gorgeous for sitting observing the world go past - or presumably observing bad people underneath - the 90ish knot max level flight speed was presumably a factor of that, the fan, and the big wing, and a bit limiting, as well as unimpressive with a 240hp engine.

Most of which good engineering could probably fix. Night and IMC capability wouldn't be that hard to achieve, modern FEA could redesign the structure lighter, and airborne handling glitches can be ironed out. The ground handling could be tolerated in a smallish patch with a reasonable number of decent airfields, and some technological solution to the ballast issue can probably be design. In the 21st century, it also wants a Garmin or similar glass cockpit. I don't get the impression that John Edgley however really wanted to hear those sort of suggestions from me or anybody else.

I have a real soft spot for the aeroplane: it was something that particularly inspired me into aeronautics as a teenager, but rather doubt that it will sell in 2016 when for example the Seabird Seeker is on the market with a full CofA and production capability. Somebody would have to put significant effort into revising the Optica to compete with what else is out there now, and I have doubts that anybody is going to pay for that.

Incidentally at the same time that I was being inspired by the Optica as a teenager, and an elderly Neville Duke was test flying it, the young engineer running a lot of the flight test engineering was one Francis Donaldson. Gratuitously dropping names, Paul Mulcahy - later CAA's Chief Test Pilot and presently test flying the PC24 at Pilatus did his ETPS pilots assessment exercise in 1992 on the Optica, with Neville Duke as his safety pilot - presumably just before JF took over. It's an aeroplane with quite an interesting fan club!

G

[lotus1]

I beleive there was some very bad publicity when one aircraft loaned to the Manchester police sadly crashed and both pilot and observer killed also the fire at the factory was a mystery it was shown one crime watch this was the nail in the coffin

[Planemike]

It was on loan to Hampshire Constabulary, crashed at Ringwood....

[Kemble Pitts]

The early test flying was done by Angus McVitie at Cranfield. When I was at Edgley Aircraft Ltd. at Old Sarum in the early eighties Chris (Chopper) Chadwick was the test pilot and he did the bulk/all of the test flying required for CAA type certification.

Neville Duke (absolute gent, as is Chris) was brought in after Edgley Aircraft went bust and the Company became Optica Industies, this is when Alan Haikney bought it out of receivership. John Edgley was off the scene by then.

The ducted fan was used as it is aerodynamically more efficient than an open propeller (no tip losses). The down-side is the huge structural compromise needed to create the duct. This included a massive/complex/costly/heavy/otherwise bad ring main-spar centre section. It formed the outer ring of the duct and was significantly heavier than a conventional straight main spar.

The prototype had a 200hp Lycoming and would sometimes use the whole length of Old Sarum's grass (about 1000m hedge to hedge) and still abort. Production aircraft had a 260hp O-540 and had decent runway performance (don't recall the T/O distances).

It might or might not have been a good aircraft but it gave a number of us a launch into a career in aeronautical engineering. Many of us newly-qualified engineers were given responsibilities undreamt of in larger or more established aircraft companies as well as fantastic exposure across the whole of the aircraft design, certification, production and testing process.

For all of that, several of today's senior aeronautical engineers owe a huge debt of gratitude to John Edgley.

And it was great fun and very exciting.

[BWSBoy6]

Thank you KP. Very useful to have the history and background-a lot of your info I was completely unaware of. I now see where Alan Haikney fits in, much appreciated. I'd got my facts wrong too, I though Grenville Hodge bought it out receivership.

Mrs Bws

[Kemble Pitts]

Grenville Hodge, if I recall correctly, appeared on the horizon about the time Edgley Aircraft went into receivership - I think just before but memory is vague on the details.

I think he came in as Production Director or similar. I left about one year after the receivership/arrival of Alan Haikney but Grenville Hodge was there after that and, I believe, became more involved in the new company and control of the aerodrome. He might still be.

'Someone' should write the history of the project, it is full of technical interest, ingenuity and larger than life characters.

e.g. we did bird-strike tests on the Optica windscreen with John's Volvo, some Dexion, a composite 2lb chicken (thawed) and the western section of taxyway (only just long enough to go from 0 to 60mph and back to 0 before going through the hedge!

[chevvron]

The prototype had a 200hp Lycoming and would sometimes use the whole length of Old Sarum's grass (about 1000m hedge to hedge) and still abort. Production aircraft had a 260hp O-540 and had decent runway performance (don't recall the T/O distances).


And it was great fun and very exciting.
At Farnborough, 2-up in the prototype 'MW, we were airborne well before the displaced threshold markings which were about 400m in at the time (3 Sep 1980).
As for the view, Angus let me land it and I had no problems.

[BehindBlueEyes]

Anyone know about the connection between Optica/Old Sarum and Canadian, Matthew Hudson? He bought out Optica to save it from receivership and apparently paid all the wages owed to the employees but now is keen to recoup his costs by building on Old Sarum airfield.

[annakm]

It look so like Old Sarum is again under threat from development. The owners are taking their application to the planning inspector. Any updates from anyone?

Where did you get with your enquiry about Matthew Hudson BBE?

[megan]

An Australian effort vying for the same market as the Optica, a handful sold. Seabird Seeker.

http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/3/4/9/1612943.jpg?v=v40

[BehindBlueEyes]

Grenville Hodge, if I recall correctly, appeared on the horizon about the time Edgley Aircraft went into receivership - I think just before but memory is vague on the details.

I think he came in as Production Director or similar. I left about one year after the receivership/arrival of Alan Haikney but Grenville Hodge was there after that and, I believe, became more involved in the new company and control of the aerodrome. He might still be.

'Someone' should write the history of the project, it is full of technical interest, ingenuity and larger than life characters.

e.g. we did bird-strike tests on the Optica windscreen with John's Volvo, some Dexion, a composite 2lb chicken (thawed) and the western section of taxyway (only just long enough to go from 0 to 60mph and back to 0 before going through the hedge!

Hi Annakim,

Apart Kemble Pitts post, all I found about Optica was this. A military friend of mine told me that, despite Granville Hodge’s optimism, the army weren’t that interested in the aircraft because, unlike a helicopter, it couldn’t hover so wasn’t much use to them for crowd observation. Soon after, there was a fire which brought a halt to the whole thing anyway.



https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1987/1987%20-%201262.PDF

[chevvron]

An Australian effort vying for the same market as the Optica, a handful sold. Seabird Seeker.

http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/3/4/9/1612943.jpg?v=v40

Identical in configuration to the Ogar motor glider of the mid '70s

[treadigraph]

And the delightful Sea Bee!

[eckhard]

The join between the fuselage and the tail-boom looks a bit on the thin side? In fact it looks as if it’s already suffered a hard landing!

[India Four Two]

The design decisions that went into the Optica always struck me as odd.

Instead of the expensive ducted-fan arrangement, why didn't they go for a simple pusher arrangement? Was it just noise considerations?

[POBJOY]

For a machine that had a requirement to 'loiter' and poss turn at low speeds without spinning in the Optica failed in its basic requirement. In reality a Rallye could do its job and not have to use ballast weights in relation to crew numbers/weight. In fact a Rallye or STOL modded 172/180/182 would have sufficed with the handling not being a problem. When you consider the zillions of hours flown by the 172 type on aerial imaging for decades it rather makes the case. There would also have always been the 'grey area' for single engine ops over built up areas to contend with.

[DaveReidUK]

Wasn't the point of the Optica that it would have the same field of view from the cockpit as a typical helicopter, but at much less cost ?

In other words, far better than a Rallye or a Cessna single.

[treadigraph]

Down at my local airport is a Cessna 182 with a Peterson STOL kit. It has a front set of elevators mounted forward of the cabin. They move in the opposite direction to the elevators. The owner said it has a stall speed of 35 knots.

That sounds very similar to the Wren 460 conversion, I recall one based at Nairobi Wilson in the early '70s which also starred (briefly!) in "Born Free".

[chevvron]

Not sure when he started on the Optica programme but Neville Duke had responsibility for its ‘B’ conditions flying at FLS up to 6 March 1992 when the CAA asked me to take over as Neville was then 70.



Not wishing to boast or claim 'one upmanship' but I seem to have flown an Optica (3rd Sep 1980 but admittedly not the production version) before John!

[FlightlessParrot]

The design decisions that went into the Optica always struck me as odd.

Instead of the expensive ducted-fan arrangement, why didn't they go for a simple pusher arrangement? Was it just noise considerations?

A good question, and when I asked it, I got this answer: https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/559244-edgley-ea-7-optica-g-bopo.html#post9303569

[POBJOY]

This was never going to be a selling point as the cost would have been far more than the previous mentioned available GA aircraft and its capability not in the same ball park as a Helicopter. Ducted fans have their own set of complexity/efficiency problems so that added another level of 'cost' without any real gain.
If the Police merely wanted a cheap airborne capability for an 'aerial view' of a situation (traffic or public events) then a 172 would have sufficed. If however you want 'hot pursuit' and landing to assist in a serious crime/accident situation then the Rotary option is the only one, and always was.
Of course the main problem with Helicopters is that the cost always reduces the numbers that can be afforded so that in itself is another limiting factor in the equation.